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The Last: Naruto the Movie: Thread 2 aka The Last retcon: Hinata-sama the movie


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#12921 Hanabi

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:05 PM

 

If that's true about the whole "Japanese Culture" stuff and they approving of abuse like that, that's just heart breaking.

you're breaking ramenmitsu's and other japan lovers heart by doubting japanese culture like that.. 


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#12922 Nar123

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:09 PM

 
If that's true about the whole "Japanese Culture" stuff and they approving of abuse like that, that's just heart breaking.


Not all japanese are like this
This horrible ending/interview is a product of kishi's own tradionalist/sexist mind

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#12923 Tiller

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:19 PM

you're breaking ramenmitsu's and other japan lovers heart by doubting japanese culture like that.. 

Well in all fairness I do think it's likely that the Japanese are just as confused as the rest of us about this. It would be nice to see a huge outcry from Japan. I guess we will see how good this movie does.



 


#12924 Hanabi

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:19 PM

even nh fans are irritated


Edited by Hanabi, 21 November 2014 - 02:19 PM.

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#12925 Raiton

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:26 PM

Always a way to complain here.

I'll just post the translation that is already done, it's quiete reliable: 

After he did all those things, I don’t think he could really live in the village as normal. So it’s his journey of atonement. Furthermore, in the story inside my head he’s also gone out to solve the questions that weren’t answered. For example, what exactly is Kaguya, the last boss in the manga. If they don’t find out where she came from the same things could happen again, so the journey is sort of to prevent that as well. But if I explain these things at length people will think the manga might carry on even further so I skipped writing about it. Because I don’t have any plans to continue those storylines.

 

Of course he's do a redemption journey, it's more natural than living normally in Konoha after all what he has done. Just like it's said in this part of the interview.

I think that this part about Kaguya should have been in the manga...

Anyway, thank you Sakuya-hime for your translations.  :thumb:


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#12926 ns.Believe.It

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:29 PM

 

Hanabi is obliging this act of repentance already. For what crime? No one can say. But the sacrifice has been made in place of Sasuke. 

Because she threatens Hinata's image. Hinata has to be the strongest Hyuuga and she has to be the most able candidate for the position of 'Head of the Hyuuga clan'. So Neji was killed off and Hanabi's kekke genkai is apparently gonna be taken away.

 

Instead of actually showing Hinata working hard and becoming stronger, they make it easy for her and take the short cut. This has become the norm for her in this manga-- hand over everything Hinata Hyuuga wants on a silver platter. 

 

Look at what happened in 615-- Every character including the MC had to be OOC to make her shine.

 

Then again, its not just Hinata. This pathetic 'if you can't make them good, make the others bad' concept seems to be the solution for many things in this manga. :twitch: 

 

Look at what they are doing in the pairings department-- they know its impossible to make NH/SS look as good as NS, so they simply downplay NS. Look at what they have done with Sakura-- they know they can't logically make Hinata look more of a Heroine than Sakura, so they simply ignore and relegate Sakura to a side character's role instead.

 

Other characters having to be sacrificed to make one character look good--Its really the worst kind of writing there is. 


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#12927 tricksie

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:31 PM

Like I said, we didn't read the manga wrong...and no I don't believe this bull that "I decided long ago that NH was the end pairing." That all sounds like excuses rather than reasons...and how can we be sure what is a truth and what is a lie anymore?

To me, the reason for all of this, makes sense in the context of way the manga was written. I don't think Kishimoto had a hand in writing the The Last movie at all or at leats the romance aspect of it. I think they forced his hand on the pairings and he had to make NH/SS canon because Studio Perriot made it in the movie. That is the only way to really explain any of it...and now he has to lie to try and cover the fact that the studio screwed up by saying "Yeah, this was all planned."

Call it a conspiracy theroy if you want to, but the fact that this idea that "all this was planned for a while" makes no sense in according to the context of the manga story itself just proves that someone is not telling the whole truth. There is too many red flags to accept this kind of crap and I can't believe anybody is. People lie all the time to better suit their case...why should Kishimoto be any different?

You all point it out yourselves "If NH was planned long ago, why did we get all these NS moments?" Because it wasn't planned long ago. It was probably only planned maybe in the last year or so and Kishi was forced.

I am going to quote V for Vendetta here: "Artists use lies to tell the truth, while politicians use them to cover the truth up."

 

 

 

Ofcourse they're not going to tell the truth. Not if it's going to make them, Hinata, or the new naruhina movie look bad. Like I said, the whole reasoning that naruhina was all made to make Sakura look good sounds like some sort of (bad) PR statement -- like all Sakura fans really have no right to question his  decision because it was written 'for her benefit'.

 

Now there's a big gaping hole that the parallels and foreshadowing has left. I think it's going to be quite obvious for people to see where this story was headed; maybe Kishimoto left it like this on purpose because he didn't like NH or SS himself, or maybe he couldn't be bothered to care in the end to even remove them from his story. Who knows.

 

 

Ofcourse, we'll never know if he actually flipped flopped or not, it's not going to look good or him or his story. But honestly, just because I'm a narusaku fan, it does not mean I have permanent shipping goggles that hinder my mind from interpreting literature.

 

There was absolutely no point putting in the love-letter nin scene if it was not about using dramatic irony to point out that the ideal Sasuke that Sakura loves does not exist. There is no point having several different characters point out Sakura's "feelings" towards Naruto if it was purely meant to be unrequited. None of the long-running parallels that have applied so well to Naruto and Sasuke (ending with them dying on top of Madara and Hashirama's statues, who were finally able to make the peace sign) were even addressed with Naruto and Sakura, even though the comparisons were there. Kishimoto could honestly not have made it less painfully obvious that Sakura was the girl Kushina talked about, both in the manga and RtN.

 

Instead we get Sasuke poking Sakura's forehead, which he wanted to disintegrate with the rest of her body only three chapters ago.

 

Honestly, there's just so much narusaku in the story that it leaves you feeling completely blindsided to see them not get together, or at least not get any closure.

 

 

I completely agree , I think the fact that he completely erased their bond NS  no interaction no nothing like they never existed like it never was a core part of the story  when they were so close and smiling around each other  hurts the most  , even in this movie you can see that they are to distant from each other  when that was never the case . Kishimoto and SP had to diminish NS bond completely erase it  so they can make NH/SS to even have a chance   and this is how we know that we aren't the ones reading it wrong but Kishimoto simply sell out . 

 

 

-nods- Every day and everytime they open their mouth it is always a different story, but the one thing they cannot just erase is the manga itself. No matter what they do they can not change any of it to fit their words. They would have to go back and rewrite 15 years of manga just to make this ending work and they can't do that. People won't accept that...at least I think they won't. The damage is already done and no amount of excuses or PR statements can fix it. They already dug their own grave and now I just hope it bites them in the ass. I already been told Naruto sales have plummeted and they seem to be trying to do "damage control" to save the movie PR, but it seems like people are not buying it.

This is why I am laughing now and why i don't accept this idea that we read it wrong. It's so easy to blame ourselves for misunderstanding it, but that only because people let what the assistant said get to them.

If you push someone enough to the point that they insult and blame you, then you know they know they were wrong. They just don't want to admit it.

 

Sorry for the long post - but all these comments are spot on.

 

WE DIDN'T READ IT WRONG. Please don't buy into that. This is exactly why this movie has been made.

 

Every creator makes choices about how h/she wants their work to be interpreted. NaruSaku is handsdown the most supported, foreshadowed and developed pairing in the whole 15-year creation. If you doubt this any of that development, then look at the fact that Naruto never stopped loving Sakura. Ever. Not once. Even his last words in 698, as the Naruto we knew and recognized, were "Thank you, Sakura-chan," words which are only ever used in a statement of love in this manga.

 

As part of a huge international brand, Kishimoto the author is a very small part of the larger picture. He is a cog in a very big machine. He's an important cog, to be sure, but he's really, really small in comparison to the whole thing. The only part he has any control over is the manga. That's it.

 

These are all handled by other staff and outside sources:

 

Manga - publishing, distribution, marketing, and the merchandise plus its advertising and marketing

 

Movie - written plot, casting, animation, marketing, scheduling of interviews and advertisements, ticket sale and promotions, and sales of merchandise, plus its advertising and marketing

 

- and this excludes all other ancillary staff necessary for getting that manga out the door.

 

Even though Kishimoto is sitting atop the one of the world's most popular manga, he has very little control of what's underneath him. And if its determined that the brand will make more money going one direction instead of another, then that's the direction they're going to go, whether Kishimoto wants to or not. 

 

And there is no way Kishimoto would ever be allowed to go out into the world and speak against the direction. Not if he wants to keep being on the payroll. And he knows understands that completely. Naruto is a BIG BUSINESS.

 

My point to this is that the manga, the one thing that Kishimoto has the most control over, was written for NS. Over and over and over again. Even up to its ambiguous end. I think at some point he knew that the ending was going to have to go toward NH. Whether that was 8 years ago or 2 we may never know. But he celarly had opportunities to build in NH and SS in a way that it didn't feel like a betrayal. Yet he still didn't. He continued to reinforce Naruto's connection to Sakura. 

 

I think he wrote what he wanted, sprinkled in enough Hinata interaction to string that story along (knowing there would be a movie in the future about it), and when it was time to end the manga, he tacked on the last two chapters. There is ZERO SasukeSakura development. There is ZERO mutual NarutoHinata development. There is consistent Naruto Sakura development.

 

Honestly, I think Kishimoto just gave up on his story. It's clear to everyone that any semblance of a plot stopped after the Pain arc. The war arc was nothing but filler character after filler character, with the sick train wreck of Obito's story in the middle. 

 

But Kishimoto could have developed any ship he wanted, yet he didn't. He chose to steadily build on NS. That lie of omission — not developing SS or NH when he had years to do it — tells us something: That NS was not as far behind as he claims it was. And interviews that sound conspicuously like damage control are not going to change that. His actions here speak a lot louder than his words.

 

He may be a sexist human being, and he be an author who royally f*d up his story in the end. But the NS development was there, consistently, steadily. From beginning to end. And that was Kishimoto's choice to include it, reinforce it, parallel it and foreshadow it.

 

And if this was a truly happy ending, then Kishimoto would have drawn a happy Naruto finally achieving his goal. Hokage with Sakura on his arm. But he didn't get it. And so Kishimoto didn't have the stones to illustrate anyone getting a romantically happy ending together. Not NH, nor SS. He just let it all fall apart, and the movie people will put together a new storyline out of the pieces that are left over.

 

I feel a lot of things about this ending: heartbroken, angry, disgusted, etc. But one thing I absolutely don't feel is wrong. NS is there, all the way through the manga. And the statement that fans were reading it wrong is just a lie to sell people on the movie and the new series that will spring from it.



#12928 Hanabi

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:36 PM

even his last words in 698, as the Naruto we knew and recognized, were "Thank you, Sakura-chan," words which are only ever used in a statement of love in this manga.

what do you mean?


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#12929 SuperChief

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:37 PM

Just find some consolation in knowing Sakura did have strong enough feelings to want to be with Naruto but chose not to. That's about as much as we're ever going to get out Kishi and I doubt he intended to say, call it a Freudian slip.

#12930 Liu bie

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:44 PM

I present you guts from berserk and sakuragi from slam dunk.

or School Rumble.


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#12931 Raiton

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:48 PM

Just find some consolation in knowing Sakura did have strong enough feelings to want to be with Naruto but chose not to. That's about as much as we're ever going to get out Kishi and I doubt he intended to say, call it a Freudian slip.

I thought that was a false translation?


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#12932 Ether

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:51 PM

It doesn't even matter if we read it wrong or right. In the end, he still sh*tted on everything NS represented and ignored their bond.

 

All this "faint love" stuff tells me is that they're not having Naruto and Sakura interact in any meaningful way in the movie. So they can't even bring themselves to use it as a close friendship.


Edited by Ether, 21 November 2014 - 02:52 PM.


#12933 Narufan85

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:00 PM

Amen, Tricksie. We didn't read it wrong. NS is he only relationship that grew and matured over the course of the whole manga. They became equals and partners who wanted to walkable geode each other, not a love struck woman pining after a man.

#12934 ns.Believe.It

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:11 PM

 

As part of a huge international brand, Kishimoto the author is a very small part of the larger picture. He is a cog in a very big machine. He's an important cog, to be sure, but he's really, really small in comparison to the whole thing. The only part he has any control over is the manga. That's it.

 

These are all handled by other staff and outside sources:

 

Manga - publishing, distribution, marketing, and the merchandise plus its advertising and marketing

 

Movie - written plot, casting, animation, marketing, scheduling of interviews and advertisements, ticket sale and promotions, and sales of merchandise, plus its advertising and marketing

 

- and this excludes all other ancillary staff necessary for getting that manga out the door.

 

Even though Kishimoto is sitting atop the one of the world's most popular manga, he has very little control of what's underneath him. And if its determined that the brand will make more money going one direction instead of another, then that's the direction they're going to go, whether Kishimoto wants to or not. 

 

And there is no way Kishimoto would ever be allowed to go out into the world and speak against the direction. Not if he wants to keep being on the payroll. And he knows understands that completely. Naruto is a BIG BUSINESS.

 

My point to this is that the manga, the one thing that Kishimoto has the most control over, was written for NS. Over and over and over again. Even up to its ambiguous end. I think at some point he knew that the ending was going to have to go toward NH. Whether that was 8 years ago or 2 we may never know. But he celarly had opportunities to build in NH and SS in a way that it didn't feel like a betrayal. Yet he still didn't. He continued to reinforce Naruto's connection to Sakura. 

 

I think he wrote what he wanted, sprinkled in enough Hinata interaction to string that story along (knowing there would be a movie in the future about it), and when it was time to end the manga, he tacked on the last two chapters. There is ZERO SasukeSakura development. There is ZERO mutual NarutoHinata development. There is consistent Naruto Sakura development.

 

Honestly, I think Kishimoto just gave up on his story. It's clear to everyone that any semblance of a plot stopped after the Pain arc. The war arc was nothing but filler character after filler character, with the sick train wreck of Obito's story in the middle. 

 

But Kishimoto could have developed any ship he wanted, yet he didn't. He chose to steadily build on NS. That lie of omission — not developing SS or NH when he had years to do it — tells us something: That NS was not as far behind as he claims it was. And interviews that sound conspicuously like damage control are not going to change that. His actions here speak a lot louder than his words.

 I think you are giving Kishimoto way too much credit. I think you are showing him sympathy that he really does not deserve, not after those terrible things he said in that interview. 

 

And I find it really hard to believe that Kishimoto has so little control over his story. I cannot believe nor can I sympathize that he was totally helpless in this situation. Surely as creator and writer of the manga, his opinions matter a lot and his decisions are final.

 

He could have taken a stand against any outside pressure. He could have convinced them to change their minds. After-all, it is his manga. But in the end, he was the one who changed his mind! He simply bent to outside pressure and gave them what they wanted accepting the consequences that doing so would  wreck his story and image. And look what happened-- Everybody except the hardcore shipping fans are left disappointed. The manga is mocked at, his reputation is tarnished.  

 

Kishimoto gets flak because he deserves it. Like they say- 'You reap what you sow' .


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#12935 SuperChief

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:18 PM

So which translation is the most accurate one? I got a point to prove but don't want to use the wrong one.



#12936 Ether

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:35 PM

So which translation is the most accurate one? I got a point to prove but don't want to use the wrong one.

About the whole Sakura being a terrible woman thing? It seems to be the one that isn't about Hinata.



#12937 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:41 PM

So which translation is the most accurate one? I got a point to prove but don't want to use the wrong one.

It all depends on what point you're trying to prove, IMO. 


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#12938 SuperChief

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:55 PM

Would Sakura have been terrible for moving from Sasuke or terrible to Hinata?



#12939 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:59 PM

My suggestion would be to use BOTH, especially the newest one I posted from Tumblr. There is no mention of Sasuke's feelings on the mater, The first only implies Kishi thinks he/others would think badly of Sakura for moving on from Sasuke. The second implies SAKURA feels badly for Hinata, and bows out. 


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#12940 rocci

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:59 PM

Would Sakura have been terrible for moving from Sasuke or terrible to Hinata?

Is it even matter at this point? It just a Terrible excuse.




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