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#41 Sarahmint

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 04:42 PM

Read what Kishimoto said about Sakura.  "At one point we were considering pairing her with Naruto romantically, but if she suddenly switched from Sasuke, that would maker her a terrible woman"  and "Sakura is all about Sasuke".

 

On Sarada: "I wanted to make her a female Sasuke, but that would be too scary, so we gave her Sakura's features to tone her down".

 

Kishi's solution to fix Sakura's popularity, as he was hurt when a little girl told him she didn't like Sakura, was to make her more beautiful.  Apparently backstory or characterization didn't come to mind.  (Even after Sasori's defeat, she was called "a chivulrous spirit like that of a man's, which is rare")

 

On the new spread of Sasuke, Bolt, Sara, and Naruto, Sara is the only female and is said to be sexualized in comments on the internet.

 

Sakura can only be what Kishimoto envisions her and nothing more.  Women to the kitchen.  (Have you seen Kushina's Ninja Storm moveset?)


Was once Sasuke's biggest fan.

And then chapter 699 happened.

He should have called Kakashi out on his hypocrisy,

instead he was left alone by Naruto...

 


#42 Ryriena

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 05:07 PM

Yep, the only famous woman ninja : Tsunade, never got a true full fight, was regarded as the weakest sennin and was looked down on by Madara, only to be humiliated off-screen by the guy himself, life centered on Dan never truly forgot him
 
Mei- never got full backstory, only known characteristic being her wanting to marry *desperately*
 
Konan- Badass, I'm glad she died because Kishi didn't had the time to ruin her, still her life was centered on Nagato and Yahiko
 
So you see the famous women Kishimoto put there were for appereance only, we never got nothing on them, we didn't focus on them at all

Now that you bring it up yeah he is a sexist pig. Ugh I am wondering how the Japanese female fan base is taking this direction because I know the newer generation isn't liking the direction he has taken with some of the women. He basicly has Naruto call Tsundae a drunk who's not fit to be Hogake even thought he saw her as a grandmother figure which in his culture is very disrespectful to say something like that to her.

Edited by Ryriena, 28 April 2015 - 05:14 PM.

Them Duke boys never meant no harm.--------> my childhood.
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#43 Nate River

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 05:13 PM

Kishi's solution to fix Sakura's popularity, as he was hurt when a little girl told him she didn't like Sakura, was to make her more beautiful.  Apparently backstory or characterization didn't come to mind.  (Even after Sasori's defeat, she was called "a chivulrous spirit like that of a man's, which is rare")


For a little girl? How little are we talking? I have a four year old son. Trust me when I say backstory and characterization are unimportant generally unimportant at that age.

I think the problem is Kishi not letting that comment go.

#44 Ryriena

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 05:16 PM

I agree the problem is Kishimoto not letting that comment go and moving on by developing her character more.
Them Duke boys never meant no harm.--------> my childhood.
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#45 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:14 PM

I still can't believe Kishi said that Sakura would be a terrible woman if she moved on from Sasuke. That's more sexist than the guys on Mulan that said women can't fight.

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#46 Ryriena

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:20 PM

Yup can't agree with you more about how sexist is that bull crud.
Them Duke boys never meant no harm.--------> my childhood.
Freedom of speech is no laughing matter, since it does take one person to stand up for the right too speak out.
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#47 Ryriena

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:24 PM

I still can't believe Kishi said that Sakura would be a terrible woman if she moved on from Sasuke. That's more sexist than the guys on Mulan that said women can't fight.

At least, they had a excuse for Mulan based on the time period since she changed the views on women in China as miltary fighters.

Edited by Ryriena, 29 April 2015 - 04:09 PM.

Them Duke boys never meant no harm.--------> my childhood.
Freedom of speech is no laughing matter, since it does take one person to stand up for the right too speak out.
firma__op__luffyxnami_nu__out__by_pjxd23

#48 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:27 PM

I wish After Kishi wrote 698 he gave the rights to me and LadyGT. I would do the storytelling and she can do the drawings. First thing I would ask her to draw is Sakura in a doctor's outfit with her daughter saying "Mommy when I grow up I wanna be just like you."

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#49 Broken Figurine

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:38 PM

I feel like if Kishimoto let Sasuke have some culpability things would be a lot different, but it's very much that, as Nate said, there's this reflexive need to defend Sasuke from criticism. He has a horrible track record and look, characters have gone above and beyond for him. I could have maybe, maaaybe, maybe made peace with the fact that Sakura ended up with Sasuke if he was a genuinely changed man. Cop out? Yes, but given this journey of saving Sasuke cost Naruto an arm and lots of my time as a reader I could imagine during peace time he took on responsibility and was at least physically present.

 

Yet no, I have no idea what he's doing but a father he is not being. He's not changed any. He's still causing problems for characters and they're still not letting him go. Sakura won't move on from him until the story does. This is the next generation, post-resolution Naruto manga, and it still comes back to Sasuke's absence and people missing him--still comes back to the mystery surrounding his family. 

 

I feel some sympathy for Sarada because she can obviously tell something's not right, and I'll feel better about her character if she's shown supporting the woman that has for all intents and purposes raised her. Maybe Sakura is under a genjutsu (which would be absolutely disgsuting) but to Sarada, that's her mother. That's the single-mother who raised her and as far as the lash out goes I don't think Sakura is physically abusive to her. I want to believe Sakura could at least be a good mother. 

 

It's just so upsetting to see Sakura like this. In a way, I think we all knew as anti-SasuSaku fans that this was the expected outcome of their marriage, but to see it and to see her so down... and then to see people supporting Sasuke and fans on this very forum calling her useless because she's in this situation is just so disheartening. Nobody deserves to be in this complicated situation and it seems that Sakura just really can't catch a break. I want her to finally let go of Sasuke and it's so frustrating to know that this plot-point isn't going to be dealt with properly. It's just going to keep making Sakura look bad for the sake of Uchiha-drama. 

 

To quote Sakura, "I'm tired of it."



#50 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 10:22 PM

Sakura was only ruined towards the end.  She's still a good character throughout Shippuden and I will always support her for that.

Very true just Kishi has no idea what a woman is nor that they move on as well.



#51 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 11:38 PM

Very true just Kishi has no idea what a woman is nor that they move on as well.


That's insane, what kind of man, much less an author, not understand how to write a female character? Does he not interact with any women in real life? You write them like any other character!

#52 Ryriena

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 12:21 AM

Aizen he doesn't interact with women that is the only way I could fathom him being so ignorant about how a women would act.
Them Duke boys never meant no harm.--------> my childhood.
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#53 rocci

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 12:57 AM

Kishi doesn't know how to write character.

#54 Gravenimage

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 01:35 AM

Don't hate the character hate the author.


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#55 Narufan85

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 02:48 PM

I'm loving this thread — it's a subject I've thought about often since the release of the new series. Sakura is blatantly being cast in a negative light. Even though she's in a tough situation that is only deserving of sympathy, her daughter takes an accusatory tone, throwing some really cruel comments at her, pushing Sakura over an emotional edge. And even in lashing out it only sinks Sakura's situation lower.

 

The people who are supposed to love her are not showing much love or support for her. Sasuke, her spouse, left her more than a decade ago with an infant that may or may not be hers. Her 12-13yo child, instead of supporting her or being kind about the obvious fact that Sakura's a single parent in a loveless non-relationship and the only mom she'll ever have, is flat-out mean to her. Not supportive, or even broaching the subject in a delicate way.

 

But still, Sakura comes out of this in a really negative way. When, for all the facts that are presented so far, she is trying to make the best of a bad situation, and should be a sympathetic character.

 

If it were Hinata, holding down the fort while Naruto was away, and having to deal with a sassy kid throwing her situation in her face, the fandom would be falling all over itself for her.

 

But because it's Sakura, and because the tone of everyone around her is that it is somehow her fault and her responsibility to fix, then the fandom follows suit.

 

I can't help but be reminded of the problems with the "abused-wife syndrome," the term for the woman who stays in a bad situation without leaving. People analyze and obsess about why the woman stays, what's in it for her, and why doesn't she change and just leave.

 

But no one ever calls it the "abusing-husband syndrome," placing the blame where it truly lies. 

 

Somehow, the fault is assigned to the woman, and so is the responsibility to change. It is just accepted that the abuser will never change. And that the woman must endure. It's in the very language we use to define those situations.

 

In the new series, Sakura is set up completely as the 'abused-wife syndrome.' Her situation is really bad, but instead of focusing on Sasuke, the one who left her holding the bag, people are actively blaming Sakura for her role in getting there, and not pulling herself out. Even Sarada is blaming her. And the chapter is written from her POV. There is simply no escaping it now. It's been validated.

 

Kishimoto has made Sakura the scapegoat again. And the readers have followed him in that view. 

 

Kishimoto is sexist, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind. And once we see the domestic bliss that Hinata is sure to be living in, as a reward for her cinderella-like existence in the story, the contrast to Sakura's situation and the negative slant we are supposed to see her in, should be completely clear.

 

Great post. I think I posted his elsewhere, but you know how this arc will end. The Uchiha family will end up being a happy family unit, but Sasuke will be the primary agent in repairing the family. Sakura will once again have her agency stripped from her and she will be carried along passively as Sasuke and Salad repair everything.

 

I've have more opinions of Sasuke than any other charter.


You're right he is not a good person and I think he'd openly admit it. The biggest issue I have with his character is not him, really, it's the way the cast and story bend and contort themselves to avoid admitting he is bad and having to hold him accountable
 
 

 

It's not just this fandom, though, that goes out of its way to make excuses for morally ambiguous male characters they like. I posted about this elsewhere, but you see the same thing with big fans of Book!Tyrion. There's a huge segment of the fandom that hates Sansa because she was too "mean" to poor Tyrion.

 

Honestly, I think a lot of it is institutionalized misogyny, but I don't know if I've fully thought this all out yet so I may just be grasping at straws.



#56 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 04:51 PM

I've never seen the logic in blaming a character. Sakura was a good character once, and the one at fault for how she's being written now is Kishimoto, and possibly his editors, however much pull they may or may not have over the story's direction. Sakura's been purposefully dragged through the mud by Kishimoto, for what reason I can't fathom, and like most of the rest of the characters is only a sad shadow of what she once was. The problem is an incompetent writer who can't follow through with his story, plot, or characters. Sakura is not the problem, she's a casualty.



#57 Phantom_999

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 06:59 PM

Do I hate this Prime example of a domestically abusive relationship? YES, but do I blame Anyone for it? No, I only Blame the false god that made it happen. Sakura's only fault if any is that She couldn't let go of a silly crush. Why is it silly, and Why is it a crush? because she never knew the persons behind the "hotness" she sees. It is shallow and insulting to both men and women to make such a farce true love in the end She never or supported the guy who she wants in her pants. She was never herself around him either, What does that say about the relationship?

 

As for Duck-butt head, well I don't blame him for this s**t, cause that is his character so you can't hate consistency can you? But that said, He doesn't deserve a family or a life that he would just Abandon in 0.00000000000000000001 second after obtaining it. Never home since the day his daughter was conceived or born? Can you even call that a father? Just say spermdonor and be done with it I say. 

 

Sakura deserved the man she REALLY loved, cause they showed what true love is, and we all know the ideal home life is actually only oif they got together right? Sauce, would have been better off wit ha a woman with no on panel time cause at least we would never know if he treated her like trash to, which would be the ideal thing. My point is I don't blame the characters, But i hate the circumstances and development (lack thereof actually)  caused this f***ing train wreck.


Edited by Phantom_999, 29 April 2015 - 07:11 PM.

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#58 Pix

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 01:44 AM

Nah. Personally, I don't like it when fellow NS fans let Sakura off the hook. 

 

I think it's time we start admitting that SS is abusive on both sides. Think about it- All this time Sakura used her feelings as a way to guilt trip Sasuke into coming back to the villiage or being with her. Even at the very end, when Naruto and Sasuke headed towards their final battle. She literally thought that by telling Sasuke that she loved him, which he refused to acknolwedge time and time again, he would miracously come back and everything would be okay. Let's talk about the fact that she completely doesn't take his feelings into account. Or how about the fact that she knows nothing about the Uchiha clan yet thinks she can win over Sasuke with such actions.  

 

But I haven't even brought up the fact that even after all of the horrible things he's done to her, she still ended up with him. There's nobody else to blame except her at this point. This isn't to excuse all of the horrendous things Sasuke is done- it's just that you can't put all the blame on Sasuke for this one. Sakura is not the "victim" here. 

 

And the "didn't deserve this" excuse can be made for any character. Sasuke didn't deserve to have all of his character development regress just to fight Naruto at the end; Hinata didn't deserve to lose her original clan subplot and become Naruto's doormat; Naruto didn't deserve to have his entire backstory disregarded just for the sake of a pairing. See how that works?


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#59 Phantom_999

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 02:16 AM

Yeah It's not that the characters don't have it coming in their portrayal but that it's useless to blame cause the creator just didn't want to go through with their development at the end. Which is terribly disgusting writing and that I would say is putting it mildly.


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#60 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 02:32 AM

I don't know why people are debating this. It's simple. it's Kishi giving up to popularity that he had to made a heroine switch and little girls were telling how much they hate Sakura that he came to regret her character and to resolve this problem was to draw her like a Hollywood actress. Right there, it tells people who have been following this piece of a trash manga for 15 years that Sakura was never designed to be like that and pair up with Sasuke. Its all about the fans and Kishi never cared. All the characters have been assassinated no matter who deserves the blame.


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