3333 replies to this topic

[TheFirstEvil100]

When you being force to accept something you don't want :

Because that is what she wants us to do we all need to accept this ending and that it is the greatest Manga ending of all time that Naruto and Hinata as well as Sakura and Sasuke are the greatest couple to happen, but remember we are all stupid morons who have no clue how great the Naruto ending.

 

That we are all we are all morons in not seeing the great NH hints and everything Naruto and Sakura is just a load of dog kitten cause its not done well or whatever. But Analyzer will keep saying we are blind kitten heads who didn't read the manga right we are all dumb ass that have no idea how to read that the hints of NH were in our face from chapter 1

 

and all the sweet NS moments we had they are nothing really its just trash compaired to the NH moments.

[ThroughWithLove]

Why would anyone wish a franchise to die?

 

You realize that these creative projects keep people employed as they work on them? As Creative Artists, we comment, push, criticize, and try to push eachother to do better. To wish the worst of someone is poor etiquette and poor human behavior, and its not something anyone should be doing here either.

 

This Franchise further ,doesn't hurt you. You don't have to talk about it if its too much for you.

 

The death of a bad franchise is a good thing. It sends a message to other companies on what sucks (i.e. Bleach) and increases chances of companies producing stuff that doesn't suck (i.e. My Hero Academia). Capitalism if you will. Learn to love it.

 

Bleach got what it deserved and was a result of an author taking his readers for granted. Something tells me Boruto will meet a deservedly similar fate. 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 22 July 2017 - 01:07 AM.

[rocci]

@analyzer
Kishi is a bad writer is not a solely just my opinion. Many already say that long before the ending.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

But ultimately quality is -subjective-.

 

There can be a very high quality, intriguing, great story, but its not marketed well and only gets a cult following.

 

There can be a garbage written story, but you appeal to something not available on the market, that's of at least acceptable quality enough that so many people buy it.

 

I think the manga isn't that good, however that's my taste.

 

The Anime is actually pretty good. that's also my taste.

 

As far as I am aware Bleach ended its manga with a conclusive ending, and was not forced to cut and end it incomplete. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say about Bleach.

 

From Shounen Jump's standpoint, making money is a fairly objective process, which they measure via polling data, kanzeban sales and anime viewership. As we saw with the deaths of Bleach and Toriko, their precision is almost surgical about this and they won't hesitate to knock something out that is coming off as wasted baggage. Based on Boruto's current progress, I don't see how it won't involve the same fate without seriously shaking things up. Frankly, I doubt even Naruto itself would've survived had it gone on another whole arc.

[Kagomaru]

Because that is what she wants us to do we all need to accept this ending and that it is the greatest Manga ending of all time that Naruto and Hinata as well as Sakura and Sasuke are the greatest couple to happen, but remember we are all stupid morons who have no clue how great the Naruto ending.

 

That we are all we are all morons in not seeing the great NH hints and everything Naruto and Sakura is just a load of dog kitten cause its not done well or whatever. But Analyzer will keep saying we are blind kitten heads who didn't read the manga right we are all dumb ass that have no idea how to read that the hints of NH were in our face from chapter 1

 

and all the sweet NS moments we had they are nothing really its just trash compaired to the NH moments.

That's really why she's here.  She sees us - and this forum by extension - as a threat to her fandom because we speak the unmarred truth about the horrible ending and its pairs  and thinks that the only way she can find reassurance in her shipping is to quell opposition towards it so she can feel vindicated. So, she tries to present herself as an objective debater that uses only concrete evidence in the manga to argue her case, in order to make us question and undermine the validity of the NaruSaku hints spread throughout the manga and try to convince us that Naruhina was always there(and it honestly seems like she's trying to covert us in some cases, bleh).  Problem with that is her tendency to distort, misinterpret and blatantly fabricate entire scenes and dialogue(as well as their intent) within the series and thinks that we're too stupid to fact-check or have no reading comprehension to speak of.

 

Of course, she also fails to realize, in her vain attempts to dismantle evidence of NaruSaku, that N/S fans aren't the only ones dissatisfied with Naruto.  Fans who never gave a hoot about the shipping wars were thoroughly let down, and no matter what she thinks, that fact is making itself known by Boruto's pitiful manga sales and how its ratings fail to find a spot even among the top 100 anime titles in Japan. 

Edited by Kagomaru, 22 July 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 Fans who never gave a hoot about the shipping wars were thoroughly let down, and no matter what she thinks, that fact is making itself known by Boruto's pitiful manga sales and how its ratings fail to find a spot even among the top 100 anime titles in Japan.

And when I look at Boruto, that is what it's entire premise screams: A desperate effort to cash in on the Naruto cash cow before it finally keels over. When we look at things from this perspective, it explains alot: The unoriginal kids, Boruto's being a closeted gary-stu, Sasuke's prominent role, and even the NH/SS pairings. It all screams executive decision making.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 22 July 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

And when I look at Boruto, that is what it's entire premise screams: A desperate effort to cash in on the Naruto cash cow before it finally keels over. When we look at things from this perspective, it explains alot: The unoriginal kids, Boruto's being a closeted gary-stu, Sasuke's prominent role, and even the NH/SS pairings. It all screams executive decision making.

So standard executive messing around as usual then.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

That its expected Boruto will not do as well as its successor, that quality is not measured if you're in the top elite, and I'm not sure how you are measuring its "Top 100ness"? By viewership? By quality? Where is this data coming from even? Further, who cares? All that matters is if -you- or -I- like it. And if you haven't even watched it, but criticizing it with this predisposition that you'll not like it, who is being a bit shallow here, no offense? (If you have, great, your opinion is more valid and I can respect that.).

 

 

I for one look forward to its inevitable and speedy departure as this industry has a lot more potential than what "Boruto" has to offer and would prefer these studios put their resources elsewhere. So no, it's not just a matter of what I like and what you like. It's a matter of pushing quality manga/anime to the front while letting shameless cash grabs like Boruto bite the dust.

 

As for these people with jobs and families to feed of whom you address, I think I speak for many when I say that them getting hired onto superior and more compelling projects would be a blessing in disguise. So no matter how you look at it, a win/win for everyone! 

 

 

Boruto is no Gary-stu by a large margin. He's not a seemingly perfect character at all, certainly his peers don't give him that sort of view, and we see his flaws and mistakes ourselves. "Unoriginal kids" is not just done by this medium, nor are all the kids unoriginal? Sasuke hasn't had much of a promiment role in the anime at all? Nor too much in the manga at the moment either IMO. And the pairings take a back-seat, its about Boruto, not them.

 

 

 

Boruto is a closeted gary-stu to the extent that his "flaws" don't really amount to anything in the end and are just there for the sake of being there. This whole "my dad who can literally be in a million places at once has no time for us!" aspect of the story wreaks to high heaven and is the epitome of an artificial conflict (and don't bother with the 'he can't use shadow clones to do his hokage paper work' nonsense). 

 

The unoriginal kids have been done by a lot of mediums and a lot of mediums equally suck. The rationale is typically a desire capitalize on the old albeit successful formula. 

 

I have no idea what the current plans are in the anime, but Sasuke's role was prominent in the Gaiden chapter and the film most likely to cash in on his popularity (that often exceeds even Naruto's).

 

I'm referring to the pairings chosen in the original series. When taking all circumstantial evidence account, they were most likely chosen to keep people interested in Boruto. And to extent, it's worked. 

 

 

It's not standard "Executive messing around". You can -guess- it, just understand you stand on -no- evidence.

 

 

You don't have to agree with evidence, but just understand that just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean there is none.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 22 July 2017 - 04:01 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

I still feel it's bad as a human being to wish for something to die. Why not wish for it to improve?

 

Boruto wants his -real- dad, not just a shadow clone, though he'll take a shadow clone over nothing, and we see that this is an exhausting process to Naruto as is, particularly in the movie.

 

Further, Boruto's flaws aren't just there to be there. That doesn't make sense anyway. Boruto for example, is brilliant, but is "lazy" in a sense and takes shortcuts. He's actually a classic sort of TAG student if you're familiar with that. In the movie you see him so wanting to impress his father that he will cheat for the sake of winning. So his traits build into and catalyze into the plot.

 

I don't think it's bad and have explained how Boruto's death is a boon to everyone. I don't see it improving and believe a cancellation sends a much stronger capitalistic message to any and all future shameless cash grab efforts.

 

I preempted the whole "Boruto wants his real dad not a shadow clone" strawman in my previous post. There is absolutely nothing amoral about having shadowclones do paper work while the real Naruto spends time with his family. And the very notion that the Hokage job is as taxing as the Boruto series makes it out to be is contradicted by it not being an issue for every previous Kage. You certainly didn't see Kushina moping about how Minato had no time for her. It's weak and simply conflict for the sake of conflict (which is symbolic of everything that is wrong with this Boruto character).

 

Boruto's efforts to impress his father don't mean anything on account that the whole conflict with his father is forced and artificial in the first place. It also frequently subverted from what I can tell.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 22 July 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Morality wasn't discussed, what was brought up was how taxing the shadow clones are. I assume Naruto has Shadow Clones about even when he spends time with his Family (If you watch the Anime, you even see that this has happened). Naruto tries, but when his attentino is greatly needed, he gives his actual self to do it.

 

The conflict with his father is forced and artificial? What does that even mean? Forced is an often mis-used word, because technically, when we write something, we're -creating- and -forcing- something. I hope your term forced here, means pushing for something that doesn't make sense, or needs more build up. Frankly, there's enough build up, and I find your term poor diction. The same for Artificial here.

 

Boruto isn't a "shameless" cash grab. People -want- to see it. People like and love the concept. You would want it taken away from those people? I disagree with your aspect that it is a capitalist "boon" at all. Frankly, if you don't like it, don't watch it, but if you haven't watched it, then it is poor to judge and damn something without looking it over. Let those who do watch it. That's the beauty of our world, we can watch multiple things. Wishing death to an artist's work, for me, as a writer, is just poor human behavior. We -want- our fellow writers to do better, not have their work perish and fail.

 

Yeah . . . you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy the notion that someone who can maintain himself in 1000 different places at once nonstop for an entire month (without using any kyuubi chakra and in a much weaker state) is going to have trouble handling run of the mill Hokage duties (paper work) while simultaneously spending his time with his son. Unless you haven't read the manga, it's a weak conflict and every single effort to explain it is laughable.

 

Nah, I don't really care for semantics at the moment. My solution to your love for crossword-puzzles is to interchange whatever word you think is best and simply address the substance of my claims.

 

Boruto is a shameless cash grab. So is just about every other followup iteration to a work that was by no means necessary. Shonen Jump and studio Pierot are in the business of making money, so power to them. But I think I speak for a great deal of people in the community when I say that we deserve a lot better than shallow rehashes like Boruto. People like and love the concept? I agree. This is why spiritual successors like My Hero Academia are doing so well. So lets actually try and improve upon the concept that people like and love as opposed to simply slapping Naruto label on something and taking the fans for granted. Put Naruto to bed once and for all. Let this franchise keep what little dignity it still has and make way for something new and better.

 

I disagree with you disagreeing with capitalism.  I want more people to be happy with the works in this industry and the free market assures this by kicking series like Boruto to the curb as its ratings continue to decline. This is a good thing as it opens the door for resources to be used on promoting bigger and better series. Perhaps in some communist country, they might consider keeping a show in production regardless of whether people like it or don't, but Japan is fortunately not such a country. And I don't know why you have a problem with the free market or why you think being a proponent of it and its benefits is poor human behavior, but to each is own.

[The Doctor forever]

Hi I'm new but I do agree I have loved Naruto right from the start up till it started to get all kittened up with Kishi showing his love for the Uchiha something that I hated a lot, I mean I feel like Kishi did all this to make us feel sorry for them by changing it all up on why they all so kittened up in the head. Now while some may say that the ending to Naruto is good, I know it is not a good ending I say this because I do study writing class at Collage and its a very high learning course I am doing right now, anyway I took all the information to my teacher and I was on the fence on the ending at first till I took it to my teacher and he said with all he looked up twice that this was a bad ending to the manga.

 

This is for many, many reason really one of the reason my teacher pointed out very well, he said this. "If this story was about Naruto how come we never saw he become Hokage and just see him as one, a writer must show the hero's dream come true, which for Naruto was being Hokage, however from what I see we just see a skip. To me this was not really Naruto's story but Sasuke's hence why we didn't get to see him become Hokage."

 

He then went on to talk about Sasuke, and how its seems that the writer Kishi played favourites with Sasuke, this is shown in the fight he has with Deidara at the end with Sasuke somehow getting away from death, and he looked over that fight saying Sasuke with so little power and time should not have been able to do that, "That is the writer throwing logic away as he didn't what someone he likes to do, and had very little thought on the ending to the fight that the writer didn't really think it out."

 

He looked at the ending as well and all the bad that Sasuke did and how he was let off as well, now this was something that he didn't like at all being he is a teacher of a class that teachers us how to make a good story, now in his own words he said this. "Letting Sasuke free and live after all he did would be like letting Darth Vader free after Return on the Jedi or after heroes turned villains as well." he went on to say that is all stories that when a former hero has gone bad they end up dying. He did say this was depending on the evil that they have done and he looked at what Sasuke has done and said one of three things should have happened.

 

1 he dies saving his former friends and earning him redemption

 

2 he spends the rest of his life in jail.

 

3 he is killed by Naruto

 

And it not just Sasuke that is bad but Naruto as well my teacher said that Naruto never grew up he stayed in my teachers words an ignorant child who couldn't and would never be able to handle who the real world works. which is bad Naruto never grew and just stayed grew, he said in stories a character has to grow and change to know that you don't always win and that lose that lose is a big part of life that you can't really save everyone.

 

He says this that Buffy was better, as he looked back on season 2 when Angel became Angelus, he said that after Jenney death it was at that moment that Buffy knew she had to kill Angel as he was gone and he was not coming back this shows that even thou Buffy deeply loved Angle she knew what was the right thing to do. "Now Naruto if he was in the same spot looking at him, I feel he would let the whole planet get dragged into hell." that is what my teacher said if Naruto was faced with the same point as had to face as Naruto couldn't let Sasuke go.

 

Now I ask my teacher on how and what makes a good ending my teacher said that a good ending to a story is one like Star Wars Return of the Jedi, Buffy season 7 The Lord of the Rings Harry Potter and so on I did ask him why and he said what makes the great is because the heroes grew in the stories they knew that sometimes you don't always win and traitors get what was coming to them as well.

 

Sadly Naruto is by no means a good Manga od a story not like the others I have seen or read, I mean Sasuke was just a kitten, when I look at him. But when I look at say someone like Spike from Buffy he was liked and kept alive for a reason because the fans liked it and he was a good bad guy and later hero as well, and this was before he got a soul, which I might add he fought for on his own as he was horrified that he tried to rape Buffy.

 

this I might add what makes Spike better than Sasuke as even without the soul Spike knew what he did was wrong, and I hate to bring this up but if Sasuke did that to Sakura I just have this bad feeling that Naruto would let it slide as Naruto would say that Sasuke was not in his right mind when he did it, which is another point on why Naruto is bad as Naruto kept trying to come up with something for Sasuke and why he was a victim and has done nothing wrong.

 

Sadly as someone who wants to be a writer one day I feel that is wrong and that Naruto is a bad leader I mean he lets someone like Orochimaru free and after what Naruto knows that he did as well, this would be like if Luke let the Emperor live after all the lives that have been lost.

[Bail o' Lies]

really because I was in another Naruto forum and they said Boruto was the most watchable anime in Japan but since I didn't see you guys saying anything about it was wandering if it's true.

Watchable? What does watchable mean? Yes, I know what the definition is: enjoyable to watch. But what does that mean about an anime? By saying a show is watchable is a personal opinion you could say that Dragonball is either watchable or un-watchable for example. OK, but how is it either? If the person meant Boruto the best anime quality-wise out-there; it's not. If they mean Boruto is the most watched anime in Japan; again it is not.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 22 July 2017 - 09:33 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Honestly I'm hoping that Black Clover does well. SP holds on to the Naruto franchise because it is its meal ticket if they could get something that outsells Boruto. Then they would eventually drop it like a stone.

[Bail o' Lies]

As for Bolt being a gary stu or not. He the top in his class if the repeater wasn't their and is overall the top is his class. He is a gifted genius that is able to come up with his own formula that answered a complex math problems and is easily able to teach others. He learned the shadow clones before he even enter into the academy. He has a guy that exists to worship him. Everyone -except the in-theory love interest Salad- excuses any bad behavior he has and can't stop talk about how perfect he is and how he is such a genius. Any character flaw disappears or is dropped the second the plot requires it or is an asset instead -except his daddy issues-. And he is apparently is very lazy and never trains. 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 July 2017 - 01:42 AM.

[The Doctor forever]

Well Sasuke did need to be punished and it needed to happen I mean again I bringing up Buffy here look at Angel and Spike neither had a soul when they did the evil things before they got them back, and when they did get their souls back it almost destroyed both of them, with Sasuke you don't even see him crying at all the bad he did.

 

I will always say that Sasuke got off far to easy and needed as I said one of the three it may not be what Naruto wanted but it shows that life can be cruel and not far which helps kids as well who read this as well and teach them that sometime not everyone can be saved.

 

Remember Naruto story was about the underdog and working hard as well, another one is follow your dreams as well, again Naruto needed to grow up and see you can't save everyone a doctor knows this, I'm just saying it would have been if one of the three things I said in my last post happened to Sasuke.

 

Now my friend thedarkpokemaster on fanfiction is doing a story in which Sakura gets the curse mark now he told me a few things.

 

1 Sakura is captured by the Sound Four and is forced into form 2

 

2 Sakura begs Naruto to kill her so she does not hurt or kill people.

 

3 if she is saved then she will hate, hate what she did and the people that her darker half killed

 

A side not on the story is that an evil version of Inner takes over Sakura's body think of it like a parasite or being having your body taken over by something else.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

But it is that way, and it seems he is -constantly- doing this, so the strain is believable. Heck I prefer it to him not being able to do it, because then he seems overpowered and less relatable.

 

If you don't care for Semantics, perhaps avoid the word choices you are doing? They -mean- something, but if you aren't using the meaning accurately, it is at best puzzling what you are saying, and at worst, you are saying something inaccurately that isn't supported.

 

You don't have to immerse yourself in Naruto if you hate it, but it shouldn't go to bed just because this group doesn't like it. Heck, as long as the -author- likes what they're doing, they can keep writing even if its not getting published for all I care, and he can publish it himself on the internet, because -a lot- of people still like this. I don't have any problem with the free market, but there's still a valid demand for it. And as a writer, as long as that demand exists, and even if it doesn't, write what you love and what you want and what makes -you- happy.

 

How would you change Boruto? Let's assume 1-700/Gaiden are non-changeable and everything is the same up to Boruto chapter one/The movie. Summarize how you would improve upon the Movie/The Manga/The Anime's storylines.

 

No, you can't just alter the amount of strain/chakra shadowclones cost to justify the tension in a story. Either comply with the existing lore when you're doing a continuation of the original story or don't do one at all. And hell yeah Naruto is overpowered at that point. You can thank Kishimoto for making that mistake throughout the War arc as opposed to having Naruto defeat the villain with actual skill and strategy. But Naruto has never been so weak where two shadowclones have been "too taxing" for him." That's a retcon of epic proportions and is an insult to any reader familiar with original series.

 

 

Nah, I don't concede the notion that my word choice was poor; I just don't see the point in playing crossword puzzle with you as it does nothing to advance the actual substance of our conversation. If you don't like my use of the terms "forced" and artificial, I'm happy to use any number of synonyms as well as take any interchangeable recommendations into account. Whatever it takes to keep us on the actual subject matter.

 

You've got me all wrong. I immerse myself in Naruto's potential. What I like is what this series had the potential to become. As for the rest of what you're saying here, I don't really follow. Sure, something shouldn't get canned just because I alone don't like, but that's pure strawman and in no way my point. And if the author wants to keep publishing his stories after it gets canceled, power to him. I have no problem with that and encourage him in his efforts. My issue is the practices of the industry and the less shameless cashgrabs we see, the better as far I'm concerned.

 

I think much of what happens in chapters 1-700 makes a continuation series not worthwhile and feel the same about Gaiden and chapter one. Still, if I absolutely had to give it a shot, I'd do an immediate timeskip to 10 years down the line and make the story focused around Boruto being a Jonin who is tasked with being the squad leader for a group of three genins much like Kakashi was at the beginning of the original. Thus, rather than being a lame retread of what we've already seen before, we'd get a story from the perspective of a teacher. Also, the stuff about Naruto having "no time for his family" will have effectively been written out of the story with Naruto now being more proactive with his use of shadowclones and Boruto's issues can transition more towards a desire to surpass his father, humility and finding his own nindou. The plot will focus on a variety of loose ends from the original story (i.e. resolving the cycle of hatred, Jashan Cult, dilemna with smaller villages, etc), all fights would be decided purely on wits/tactics as opposed to power levels. 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 22 July 2017 - 10:42 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

I don't think you're using strawman accurately, as my respones are direct respones to your arguments, not to a non-argument you didn't make. You're saying it's bad and it should be canned. I'm saying that it should not be canned, because its not bad to a large group of other people, and that what you are throwing out there for reasons why it should be, it shouldn't, for the inverse reasons, people love this. There's no "Shameless" Cashgrab. EVERYONE wants to make money, but first you want to start with a story you love and can tell.

 

There's no alteration in the story either. My point was that -even- if it was an alteration, i would -prefer- it this way. Subjective preference. You can explain almost anything away, or at least give enough details for a change, and while we might call that retcon, or sudden change with an air of disdain for our perfect continuity, if what you are changing to is -better- go for it, take that mark off, break the rule. Rules in writing can be broken anyway. The thing is, Naruto does -not- do this, and what you are saying doesn't apply, what is happening does fit with the existing lore with no issues.

 

It's not even about synonyms with your "Forced" or "Artificial" terms. Its that they don't apply at all. Elaborate what you mean here exactly in their use in their context. If you're going to use this diction, you should be able to define what you mean in its usage, particularly if I'm making a challenge here, as I don't believe either fit.

 

Nope, your assertion that "You don't have to immerse yourself in Naruto if you hate it, but it shouldn't go to bed just because this group doesn't like it" is in no way reflective of any position I have maintained in this thread, much less ever. You go even further with this line of reasoning by informing me how a work should still be allowed to exist, if its not officially being published and is just being uploaded on the Internet. In other words, textbook strawman fallacy. I've maintained that this show is bad, that people aren't liking it and that Jump and SP should respond to this series just like they have to any series that starts to nosedive (Toriko and Bleach). If the series somehow turns around, then the free market will it. If the trend continues, however, this series will meet a well deserved death. It's that simple.

 

This "it's subjective" approach seems to be your constant go-to card. Problem is that you never take "it's subjective" to its logical conclusion and never take into account that it subverts just about every argument you've ever raised on this forum. For example, you think accusing SP of promoting HInata for monetary gain is ridiculous. Well what you deem ridiculous is subjective and may very well not be what other people deem ridiculous. In other words:

 

 

 

 

Me defining "forced" and "artificial" won't do anything to advance the discussion as I demonstrated in the prior discussion where you wanted to talk about the definition of a subplot. Not that it even matters as you've made it clear that you don't mind conflicts that are created solely as a result of retconning a character's previously explained powers/abilities. In Boruto's case, the conflict with his father is forced and artificial since it's not a conflict that would ever come about naturally based on everything we've every known about the in-universe lore.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 23 July 2017 - 12:33 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Hi I'm new but I do agree I have loved Naruto right from the start up till it started to get all kittened up with Kishi showing his love for the Uchiha something that I hated a lot, I mean I feel like Kishi did all this to make us feel sorry for them by changing it all up on why they all so kittened up in the head. Now while some may say that the ending to Naruto is good, I know it is not a good ending I say this because I do study writing class at Collage and its a very high learning course I am doing right now, anyway I took all the information to my teacher and I was on the fence on the ending at first till I took it to my teacher and he said with all he looked up twice that this was a bad ending to the manga.

 

This is for many, many reason really one of the reason my teacher pointed out very well, he said this. "If this story was about Naruto how come we never saw he become Hokage and just see him as one, a writer must show the hero's dream come true, which for Naruto was being Hokage, however from what I see we just see a skip. To me this was not really Naruto's story but Sasuke's hence why we didn't get to see him become Hokage."

 

He then went on to talk about Sasuke, and how its seems that the writer Kishi played favourites with Sasuke, this is shown in the fight he has with Deidara at the end with Sasuke somehow getting away from death, and he looked over that fight saying Sasuke with so little power and time should not have been able to do that, "That is the writer throwing logic away as he didn't what someone he likes to do, and had very little thought on the ending to the fight that the writer didn't really think it out."

 

He looked at the ending as well and all the bad that Sasuke did and how he was let off as well, now this was something that he didn't like at all being he is a teacher of a class that teachers us how to make a good story, now in his own words he said this. "Letting Sasuke free and live after all he did would be like letting Darth Vader free after Return on the Jedi or after heroes turned villains as well." he went on to say that is all stories that when a former hero has gone bad they end up dying. He did say this was depending on the evil that they have done and he looked at what Sasuke has done and said one of three things should have happened.

 

1 he dies saving his former friends and earning him redemption

 

2 he spends the rest of his life in jail.

 

3 he is killed by Naruto

 

And it not just Sasuke that is bad but Naruto as well my teacher said that Naruto never grew up he stayed in my teachers words an ignorant child who couldn't and would never be able to handle who the real world works. which is bad Naruto never grew and just stayed grew, he said in stories a character has to grow and change to know that you don't always win and that lose that lose is a big part of life that you can't really save everyone.

 

He says this that Buffy was better, as he looked back on season 2 when Angel became Angelus, he said that after Jenney death it was at that moment that Buffy knew she had to kill Angel as he was gone and he was not coming back this shows that even thou Buffy deeply loved Angle she knew what was the right thing to do. "Now Naruto if he was in the same spot looking at him, I feel he would let the whole planet get dragged into hell." that is what my teacher said if Naruto was faced with the same point as had to face as Naruto couldn't let Sasuke go.

 

Now I ask my teacher on how and what makes a good ending my teacher said that a good ending to a story is one like Star Wars Return of the Jedi, Buffy season 7 The Lord of the Rings Harry Potter and so on I did ask him why and he said what makes the great is because the heroes grew in the stories they knew that sometimes you don't always win and traitors get what was coming to them as well.

 

Sadly Naruto is by no means a good Manga od a story not like the others I have seen or read, I mean Sasuke was just a kitten, when I look at him. But when I look at say someone like Spike from Buffy he was liked and kept alive for a reason because the fans liked it and he was a good bad guy and later hero as well, and this was before he got a soul, which I might add he fought for on his own as he was horrified that he tried to rape Buffy.

 

this I might add what makes Spike better than Sasuke as even without the soul Spike knew what he did was wrong, and I hate to bring this up but if Sasuke did that to Sakura I just have this bad feeling that Naruto would let it slide as Naruto would say that Sasuke was not in his right mind when he did it, which is another point on why Naruto is bad as Naruto kept trying to come up with something for Sasuke and why he was a victim and has done nothing wrong.

 

Sadly as someone who wants to be a writer one day I feel that is wrong and that Naruto is a bad leader I mean he lets someone like Orochimaru free and after what Naruto knows that he did as well, this would be like if Luke let the Emperor live after all the lives that have been lost.

 

Great first post doctor and I wholeheartedly agree with you and your teacher for the most part. Particularly on the way the author seemed to get more fixated with Sasuke and the Uchihas than the actual title character. One of the primary reasons there seems to be such a big drop off in quality after the first timeskip. And definitely agree on Orochimaru. Kishi butchered this character so badly and kind of made Sarutobi's death meaningless in the process.

[ThroughWithLove]

How did he make Sarutobi's death meaningless?

 

Nor is my argument a strawman still. You asserted it should die, which roots in this opinion of your dislike. Due to that root, I created a counter opinion, that if you don't like something, you don't have to view it, but you shouldn't wish for it to die based on that alone. Same if that is a group, mind, for so long as another group enjoys it, or even an individual, so long as it doesn't harm anoyne.

 

And in no way are the problems forced or artificial. You say its not brought by any natural conflict. But it is: Naruto became Hokage, and can't spend time with his children as much. Boruto resents that, because he misses his father around. The conflict that occurs because of this acute tension of him becoming Hokage, which ripples into the ongoing chronic tension, is naturally, and make sense. This is why I am asserting you are misusing both forced and artificial. This is a very, very, natural conflict here.

 

SP Promoting Hinata for monetary gain -is- ridiculous, because it isn't based on anything. They flanderize every character, yes, but pushing for monetary gain is a questionable statement because it has no foundation to stand on. Sure, that's subjective to a point, but it has objectiveness supporting it: It isn't based on any facts, just -your- assumption.

 

It most certainly is a strawman and trying to equivocate with this "roots in this opinion stuff" doesn't change this. Quote precisely where I said anything to the effect that "This series should die because I alone don't like it" and "The writer shouldn't even be able to upload his thoughts to the Internet." C'mon man. Blatant strawman. If that were my position, I wouldn't have uttered a word about the free market or capitalism.  

 

Naruto not being able to spend time with Boruto is forced and artificial. You have effectively conceded to this by agreeing that Naruto's inability to simply have shadowclones do his paperwork for him is a retcon. Any problem created as a result of a retcon is literally forced and artificial, which is probably reason you don't reference the retcon element in this latest post. Pure and simple. Questions?

 

Saying that it's ridiculous to say that "SP promoted HInata for monetary gain" is subjective. Maybe some people have different ideas of what constitutes ridiculousness.  Calling it a questionable statement is also subjective since some people have different renderings of what constitutes being questionable. We can do this all day. You say your position has objectiveness supporting it? Well then I say my position that "retcons are bad" has objectiveness supporting it. Where do we draw the line exactly?

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 23 July 2017 - 01:58 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Well Sasuke did need to be punished and it needed to happen I mean again I bringing up Buffy here look at Angel and Spike neither had a soul when they did the evil things before they got them back, and when they did get their souls back it almost destroyed both of them, with Sasuke you don't even see him crying at all the bad he did.
 
I will always say that Sasuke got off far to easy and needed as I said one of the three it may not be what Naruto wanted but it shows that life can be cruel and not far which helps kids as well who read this as well and teach them that sometime not everyone can be saved.
 
Remember Naruto story was about the underdog and working hard as well, another one is follow your dreams as well, again Naruto needed to grow up and see you can't save everyone a doctor knows this, I'm just saying it would have been if one of the three things I said in my last post happened to Sasuke.
 
Now my friend thedarkpokemaster on fanfiction is doing a story in which Sakura gets the curse mark now he told me a few things.
 
1 Sakura is captured by the Sound Four and is forced into form 2
 
2 Sakura begs Naruto to kill her so she does not hurt or kill people.
 
3 if she is saved then she will hate, hate what she did and the people that her darker half killed
 
A side not on the story is that an evil version of Inner takes over Sakura's body think of it like a parasite or being having your body taken over by something else.

That's an awesome story and that's first evil 100 on here. I've been giving him ideas on that story. Naruto's going to have a Luffy when ace died breakdown after he losses to her and ino will be taking sakura's spot on team 7, and Sakura will be trapped in her own head and fight back at some point. Plus ino and mebuki help naruto out with his depression and they keep hinata away from naruto and dark Sakura will be killing hinata I think and neji and konan live in that story. And sakura will be badass and have an ax a weapon.