118 replies to this topic

[Codus N]

I finally understand how Kakashi got his MS.

Here: http://mangafox.me/m...27/c243/19.html

Notice how Kakashi is crying in his Sharingan eye only. That. Was the moment where Kakashi had already gained the first prerequisite to achieve MS.

That was pretty much what Kishi's hinting at. In other words, Kakashi had "already" achieved MS since day one since the mental trauma had already been ingrained into his Sharingan. Kakashi just didn't know it. He only needed to unlock the 3rd tomoe after that. I think that during the timeskip, Kakashi discovered it by accident since in the first place he had already gained the prerequisites for MS, he just didn't know how to activate it.

To make a better example for Kakashi's situation, Kakashi is a quite a lot like Spike Siegel. We know that Spike has a fake eye and a real one. Spike states that his real eye is in the present, but his fake eye looks only into the past. It's the same for Kakashi. His original eye is in the present, but his Sharingan is always stuck on the past. That's why he was able to unlock MS, because he was still looking into his dark past with the Sharingan. If I remember right, Kakashi hinted at something like this before, so this makes sense.

[Kyuudaime]

I finally understand how Kakashi got his MS.

Here: http://mangafox.me/m...27/c243/19.html

Notice how Kakashi is crying in his Sharingan eye only. That. Was the moment where Kakashi had already gained the first prerequisite to achieve MS.

That was pretty much what Kishi's hinting at. In other words, Kakashi had "already" achieved MS since day one since the mental trauma had already been ingrained into his Sharingan. Kakashi just didn't know it. He only needed to unlock the 3rd tomoe after that. I think that during the timeskip, Kakashi discovered it by accident since in the first place he had already gained the prerequisites for MS, he just didn't know how to activate it.

To make a better example for Kakashi's situation, Kakashi is a quite a lot like Spike Siegel. We know that Spike has a fake eye and a real one. Spike states that his real eye is in the present, but his fake eye looks only into the past. It's the same for Kakashi. His original eye is in the present, but his Sharingan is always stuck on the past. That's why he was able to unlock MS, because he was still looking into his dark past with the Sharingan. If I remember right, Kakashi hinted at something like this before, so this makes sense.

I had thought about this a couple years back, mostly because to me it's the only thing that makes sense. Nice to see someone else who thinks it too.

[chouzu_tao]

I finally understand how Kakashi got his MS.

Here: http://mangafox.me/m...27/c243/19.html

Notice how Kakashi is crying in his Sharingan eye only. That. Was the moment where Kakashi had already gained the first prerequisite to achieve MS.

That was pretty much what Kishi's hinting at. In other words, Kakashi had "already" achieved MS since day one since the mental trauma had already been ingrained into his Sharingan. Kakashi just didn't know it. He only needed to unlock the 3rd tomoe after that. I think that during the timeskip, Kakashi discovered it by accident since in the first place he had already gained the prerequisites for MS, he just didn't know how to activate it.

To make a better example for Kakashi's situation, Kakashi is a quite a lot like Spike Siegel. We know that Spike has a fake eye and a real one. Spike states that his real eye is in the present, but his fake eye looks only into the past. It's the same for Kakashi. His original eye is in the present, but his Sharingan is always stuck on the past. That's why he was able to unlock MS, because he was still looking into his dark past with the Sharingan. If I remember right, Kakashi hinted at something like this before, so this makes sense.

Yeah... they still haven't fully explained why one is required to experience this trauma, and why Itachi originally stated that you had to kill your best friend. Because if you only need to experience something on that level of trauma it could easily be someone like your girlfriend, a family member you're close to, a pet?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

the problem is in part 1 kakashi did not had the mangekyou only in part 2

[Hak]

The simple answer is that it's a massive internal contradiction created by the fact that he lost control over the power levels of his main characters as the series progressed. The need for every ninja be stronger than the last is creating this problem.

Yeah...Orochimaru got bargain basement version. Remember he could not outright defeat a long past his prime third while having the help of the Second with him. I've said it before, if I were Orochimaru, I'd be wondering....what the hell, man?!

Lack of details about sharingan has allowed limitless expansion without too many outright contradictions (though there have been some), but yeah, opens him up to massive ass-pull accusations (well deserved) and complete confusion about the parameters we actually do have.

Maybe there is something that limits the power the caster can use for the Edo Tensei. The Differnce between Kabutos and Orochimarus Edo Tensei usage is Kabutos Sage Mode.

[ciardha]

) i really dont know how the shodaime could defeat him because the edo tensei's version of shodaime could not beat the sandaime, and the edo tensei madara is kicking everyone ass.

Easy answer that you got if you read Kushina's flashback- Mito Uzumaki.

[Chew]

Easy answer that you got if you read Kushina's flashback- Mito Uzumaki.

Which chapter was that referenced in? O_O I'd like to re-read it just to see if I re-discover anything.

*itsnotlikeiverunoutofmangatoreadsoimrereadingthisone*

[Dragunov]

Good chapter

[ramenanmitsu]

I hope this is the start of Kakashi year Kishi was talking about. I really don't have a much good view on him as of now. Hope this Kakashi year will change that

And whats up with Kabuto? Kishi always made sure the villains were dead. Why still make Kabuto alive? Also, he gained the sage mode even Orochimaru couldn't. I hope Kishi doesn't end Kabuto one-panelled by a dead guy. There is so much to him that could be used for the story!

[ciardha]

Which chapter was that referenced in? O_O I'd like to re-read it just to see if I re-discover anything.

*itsnotlikeiverunoutofmangatoreadsoimrereadingthisone*

Chapter 500.

[HalfStarStudios]

Easy answer that you got if you read Kushina's flashback- Mito Uzumaki.

It was never stated that Mito helped Hashirama in his battle with Madara. Only that she sealed Kurama in herself after the battle was over. The reason why Hiruzen beat Hashirama back then was because Orochimaru didn't have Hashirama go all out. That's obvious after seeing his jutsus being used by Madara which would have owned Hiruzen easily. Though I still don't know how Hashirama defeated Perfect Susanoo...

Special mention will go to Team 10, though. Chouji will go toe-to-toe with Perfect Susanoo with full butterfly wings and take it down. Shikamaru's perfect coordination of the K-11's attacks and the strategy that comes with it will impress Madara a lot. Ino... well dunno. But she will play a big role too, I guess. This will lead him to calling this generation's Ino-Shika-Cho the strongest ever. Shikamaru will gain a nickname along with Chouji from Madara.

The 5 Kages couldn't beat Madara yet you think Konoha 11 will? Lolno. That will not be realistic. Chouji cannot handle Perfect Susanoo. He couldn't even push Gedo Mazu back while a tired KM1 Naruto and BM Bee knocked it right over with one hit. Perfect Susanoo would cut Chouji to shreds. All Madara has to do is drop a Meteor and kill them all or just make a Susanoo clone to kill them all while he takes a nap. To be honest, Madara doesn't even need Perfect Susanoo for this. He doesn't even need Susanoo actually. Just make 11 wood clones and have them defeat each member of the Konoha 11. I do like the dropping Meteor idea better.

Konoha 11 beating Madara...now that's a good joke. xD

Edited by HalfStarStudios, 04 August 2012 - 12:24 PM.

[Verilance]

Here is a sign you have been reading too much Naruto...

Last night I had a dream that Tobi was actually a Sasuke copy... wierd huh...

must have been the chips and dip I ate before bed

[Codus N]

It was never stated that Mito helped Hashirama in his battle with Madara. Only that she sealed Kurama in herself after the battle was over. The reason why Hiruzen beat Hashirama back then was because Orochimaru didn't have Hashirama go all out. That's obvious after seeing his jutsus being used by Madara which would have owned Hiruzen easily. Though I still don't know how Hashirama defeated Perfect Susanoo...

Theory is that Gedo Mazo was originally Hashirama's. He used it to handle Perfect Susanoo.

The 5 Kages couldn't beat Madara yet you think Konoha 11 will? Lolno. That will not be realistic. Chouji cannot handle Perfect Susanoo. He couldn't even push Gedo Mazu back while a tired KM1 Naruto and BM Bee knocked it right over with one hit. Perfect Susanoo would cut Chouji to shreds. All Madara has to do is drop a Meteor and kill them all or just make a Susanoo clone to kill them all while he takes a nap. To be honest, Madara doesn't even need Perfect Susanoo for this. He doesn't even need Susanoo actually. Just make 11 wood clones and have them defeat each member of the Konoha 11. I do like the dropping Meteor idea better.

Konoha 11 beating Madara...now that's a good joke. xD

Hey, one of the themes of the manga is the current generation surpassing the old. You'll never know. Hell, Shikamaru beat Hidan single-handedly and probably did so with Kakuzu too during the first day's battle. The key to winning against Madara will be Shikamaru. Chouji will just be providing the raw power necessary to handle Perfect Susanoo. The only reason Chouji lost to GM is because the damn thing has 7 of the beasts' chakra combined. Of course he wouldn't have won. Perfect Susanoo's power is on par with a single Bijuu. Totally different from facing a monster with 7 of the Bijuu's powers combined.

KM1 Naruto & BM Bee can handle GM because they're the 2 strongest. You saw how Kurama alone handled the Bijuus.

Lastly, we know that Brains can trump Brawns in this manga. Look at Shikamaru's battles. All of them are about him matched up with someone who obviously have more powerful jutsus.

Here is a sign you have been reading too much Naruto...

Last night I had a dream that Tobi was actually a Sasuke copy... wierd huh...

must have been the chips and dip I ate before bed

[Jake]

Theory is that Gedo Mazo was originally Hashirama's. He used it to handle Perfect Susanoo.

That is as hole in that theory we saw Nagato make the Gedo Mazo

Hey, one of the themes of the manga is the current generation surpassing the old. You'll never know. Hell, Shikamaru beat Hidan single-handedly and probably did so with Kakuzu too during the first day's battle. The key to winning against Madara will be Shikamaru. Chouji will just be providing the raw power necessary to handle Perfect Susanoo. The only reason Chouji lost to GM is because the damn thing has 7 of the beasts' chakra combined. Of course he wouldn't have won. Perfect Susanoo's power is on par with a single Bijuu. Totally different from facing a monster with 7 of the Bijuu's powers combined.

KM1 Naruto & BM Bee can handle GM because they're the 2 strongest. You saw how Kurama alone handled the Bijuus.

Lastly, we know that Brains can trump Brawns in this manga. Look at Shikamaru's battles. All of them are about him matched up with someone who obviously have more powerful jutsus.

Who's to say that Madara isn't highly intelligent as well?

[Codus N]

That is as hole in that theory we saw Nagato make the Gedo Mazo

Yeah well, EMS upgrading to Rinnegan is an asspull no? besides, if you think about it, the GM looks like it's made out of wood isn't it?? not only that, Hashirama was stated to have kept Bijuus in custody before spreading them to the 5 countries. The only way he could've kept them locked up was the GM. Now the problem is the connection with Nagato. Hopefully Kishi explains it.

Who's to say that Madara isn't highly intelligent as well?

Doubt it. That guy's got a big stick up his ass so hard he probably wouldn't be able to think of a good strategy to save his ass once Shikamaru's checkmated him. But we'll see.

[Verilance]

deadly serious in fact in my dream when the mask broke off it was Sasuke underneath

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah well, EMS upgrading to Rinnegan is an asspull no? besides, if you think about it, the GM looks like it's made out of wood isn't it?? not only that, Hashirama was stated to have kept Bijuus in custody before spreading them to the 5 countries. The only way he could've kept them locked up was the GM. Now the problem is the connection with Nagato. Hopefully Kishi explains it.





Doubt it. That guy's got a big stick up his ass so hard he probably wouldn't be able to think of a good strategy to save his ass once Shikamaru's checkmated him. But we'll see.

ASSPULL.

[ciardha]

It was never stated that Mito helped Hashirama in his battle with Madara. Only that she sealed Kurama in herself after the battle was over.

Uh go reread it, you misssed something. Kushina context makes it clear Mito did help Hashirama and she sealed Kurama in herself during the battle.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Oh my god.
KAKASHI IS RELEVANT AGAIN (and Gai too, kinda).
Thank you, Kishi. Thank you for giving someone else a spotlight besides Naruto and Sasuke finally.

I hope this is the start of Kakashi year Kishi was talking about. I really don't have a much good view on him as of now. Hope this Kakashi year will change that

And whats up with Kabuto? Kishi always made sure the villains were dead. Why still make Kabuto alive? Also, he gained the sage mode even Orochimaru couldn't. I hope Kishi doesn't end Kabuto one-panelled by a dead guy. There is so much to him that could be used for the story!

Agreed 100%. Kabuto needs to have more influence here. If he doesn't, he'll just be another wasted villain/character. *sigh*

Oh, and the idea of the remaining K-11 vs. Madara sounds GREAT. That would be perfect.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 04 August 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[Jake]

Yeah well, EMS upgrading to Rinnegan is an asspull no? besides, if you think about it, the GM looks like it's made out of wood isn't it?? not only that, Hashirama was stated to have kept Bijuus in custody before spreading them to the 5 countries. The only way he could've kept them locked up was the GM. Now the problem is the connection with Nagato. Hopefully Kishi explains it.

When was it said that Madara unlocked the Rinnegan before his death? Because I had the Impression that his Rinnegan was part of how Kabuto made him more powerful, after all he didn't use it until after Kabuto told him he gave him more power then he had when he was alive.

I never though that the GM look like it was made of wood, to me it always looked like it was made of stone.

If Hashirama was able to keep multiple Bijus then I don't see why it would have been so hard for him to win against Madara, because all that was said about Madara's Perfect Susanoo was that it was as strong as a Biju, but we don't know which one, for all we know it could only be strong enough to fight Shukaku, I mean after all we already know that the Sharingan can control Kurama so he didn't need to overpower him to control him.

And we do know how Hashirama was able to keep the bijus, he used the same technique that Yamato used to stop Naruto when he went four-tails, and Yamato has said that Hashirama was much, much more powerful then he is, so it isn't hard to imagin that he could hold so many.

Doubt it. That guy's got a big stick up his ass so hard he probably wouldn't be able to think of a good strategy to save his ass once Shikamaru's checkmated him. But we'll see.

With the whole the next generation surpassing the previous that still can count for the 5 Kages after all the oldest one of them Onuki is a generation younger then Madara, and personally I think that Shikaku would be better suited for the job then Shikamaru would after all Shikaku is the only one Shikamaru has not been able to beat in Shogi of Go.