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#21 Kunai Poetry

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 05:25 PM

This is a slight necropost; for that, I apologize.

As a rule, I keep every review I receive, good or bad, but I do advertise that I lampoon flames. (And I do--mercilessly, even, though on boards, never in A/N). After the first thousand or so reviews, I think you start to get a little jaded. I categorize them into four basic types and I welcome all of them:

1) Flames. Oh joy! Someone cared enough to send me a bag of dog poo in the mail. At least someone cares. *sniff*

2) Questions. "How is so and so going to deal with this?" "Why is so and so acting strange all of a sudden?" "Why is it that so and so is here, when three chapters ago, you wrote that she left for a four-month cruise?" Um, oops? Particularly with a multi-chapter piece, they give me a gauge of how readers are responding to what I'm trying to do.

3) "Great job, write more." "Update soon." "Go on." "Don't stop." It's a ping, letting me know that a reader is there. These kinds of reviews make me want to continue writing. (And face it, they do pad your review count. We all peek at the number of reviews before we start to read a story; a 20-chapter 100k word story with 1000 reviews has a better chance of being good than an equivalent story with 12 reviews).

4) The rare review from a reader who cares enough to analyze your story in depth and offer serious, constructive criticism. Even when blunt, these are the kinds of reviews that make you want to become a better writer. Here's an example of one for one of my Harry Potter stories that I found particularly good:


I suppose you've earned a review by now and a few times over. And you seem to be able to sort out the pointless discouraging flames from the poorly worded attempts at helpful criticism, so bear with me. I mean no harm.

There were so many excellent ideas in here, in particular the runescriving and the sort of character you've made Dumbledore into. The potential for true greatness is there. But this is so far from the kind of story I'd ever want to read again.

I think too many angst writers get hung up on torturing the hero that they take things for granted. Quite simply, for a lot of this story I could not even begin to understand why Harry was any part of this. Especially knowing no good would come from it.

Being a wizard, going to Hogwarts, having anything useful or worthwhile? With this much kitten piling on, I'd have packed my bags and left a long time ago. It's like someone offering you a hundred thousand dollars to stand in a room and not leave for two weeks. First they fill it with a layer of kitten up to your knees. Then toxic refuse that burns your skin. Next comes flesh-eating beetles. Then it's the blood of your raped and murdered mother. Then the awful people that picked on you in childhood get to stand over you and piss on your head.

And quite frankly, I just don't see the point. To me, logic dictated a long ass time ago, that it wasn't worth staying. The parts of the magical world that held wonder and amazement and promise have all been sullied and ruined your interpretation of canon. The so-called friends are not treating you friendly. The voices of authority are offering no encouraging words, only trying to prepare you for more of this.

Fleur's character held no warmth or interest for me at all. I suppose it should be noted though that anytime I encounter the rape of a protagonist in a fic, I almost always stop reading. It's just an awful concept that the majority of authors cannot comprehend. I stop watching porn when there's unexpected bloody visceral gay male sex, and I stop reading fanfic when there's rape used as any sort of plot device. It's an interest-killer for me.

But I saw how discouraged you were in DLP threads and decided to go ahead and read the rest.

As I said though, this wizarding world isn't worth saving in my eyes. These people should be free to save themselves, but if I were Harry, I would have left the country even if it meant losing magic. And with as inhuman as you made Fleur, I found the idea of Harry leaving her exceeding easy.

I don't care for fluff, but it might have helped. I just don't see Fleur and her love as any sort of help or solution for Harry. And in point of fact, she exacerbates the problem immensely. She was to me, at no point in this fic, likable. I could sympathize with her, pity her, feel grateful for her help, but I never liked her. She stayed at a distance. And with as many problems and complications a relationship between Fleur and Harry would be, I just can't see it working.

With as tortured as Harry is (and killing Sirius offscreen was just twisting the knife for the sake of twisting), having to deal with the politics, the blood-lines and all that being an apprentice to Dumbledore requires... It sounds awful. If Fleur wanted to escape it all too, to abandon her abusive violent father, to leave behind her oppressive and closed-minded mother, that I can understand. But we see nothing other than Fleur passively accepting her station in life as an object of her fathers to be bartered with.

That's the root of the problem. There is nowhere near enough good to offset the bad. I'd rather see Harry die at Voldemort's hand, then beat him and live in this world you've created.

But the way Harry basically accepts things as they are, I'm left with no characters I like. Dumbledore as a master of manipulation is a very intriguing character. And he'd make an interesting opponent and ally, but all there are here are ugly shades of gray and a Harry I shake my head at more than empathize with. And no reason to fight for what Harry (or the readers) believe is right. Instead of a triumph over adversity you're left with enduring never-ending torture.

And that's why I rarely read angst (of which your fic was dripping with).

If you want to compare to jbern, he's got that same kind of realism and shades of gray, but there's also sarcasm, wit, likable characters and good guys helping the story's protagonist. You managed to make even the "good guys" like Sirius, Remus, the twins, seem like friendly acquaintances that I won't miss much when they're gone.

But even jbern's stuff is too angsty for me to read in sporadic updates. I wait until they're finished usually, so that I know there's a light at the end of this agonizing and dark tunnel.

You have created some fascinating characters, interesting situations, and unique takes on magic. Just no events that I read and smile, and no characters I'd root for. It's only because those parts are so good, that the lack of enjoyment in reading in the story stands out. Because it is all there, the potential for greatness. Just maybe try and put a little more 'good' in there to offset the gut-wrenching despair and frustration of the 'bad'.

And definitely pat yourself on the back for coming up with an idea, writing the story, and seeing it off all the way to its conclusion. This isn't the most satisfying of conclusions as it's a storyline basically begging for continuation, but your plan was to write about Harry's fourth year, apprenticeship, the Triwizard Tournament, and rebirth of Voldemort. And to that end, you've completed it. Take a bow. It's an extremely rare thing to find and I appreciate it.

It's also good to see you recognizing your limitations and that you plan to write out almost the entirety of the story before posting it. Whether posting and writing it as you go is truly beyond you, I'm not so sure. As long as you keep your eyes on where you're going and what you're doing, sometimes getting a little feedback as you go, can inspire you to write more and faster. It's the authors who don't know where they are going that end up getting stuck.

I look forward to more from you, whether you continue this storyline or not. I think you've probably learned a lot about writing fanfic from the WBA sections of DLP, and how people have responded to your story. If you want a vote, I'd prefer to see what other sort of world you can create rather than furthering the storyline in this one. But it's up to you.

Congrats again and thanks for writing, posting, and sharing.


I wouldn't trade it for a thousand "Good job" reviews. (That it was written by one of the most accomplished writers in the fandom didn't make the pill any easier to swallow, but I sure as heck wanted to improve after reading this).

About the only kind of review I really prefer not to receive is the anonymous reviewer who asks questions. *Thwap* I just want to whack them with the cluebat.

Edited by Kunai Poetry, 04 March 2009 - 05:38 PM.


#22 harry4e

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:16 PM

Well as more of a reviewer than a writer, (Haven't written a fanfic in over 6 years, writers block became a major issue so I quit.) I don't leave as many reviews as I possably should, mainly because I don't like leaving reviews that basically state 'Great Update' and nothing else. So in order for me to leave a review it has to make me think about 'man that was different' or 'Damn this is one hell of a great plot-line, shame it has so many spelling errors I can't make head nor tail of it.'

Also my reviews can sometimes waffle on for ages, i've left reviews that are massive and have gone completely all over the place that even I can't make any sense of. I sometimes spend more times writing a review than it took me to read the update, but that's probably because I still finger type.

Anyway from what I can remember for when I used to write, I didn't really mind any reviews that were left the fact they took the time was good enough, (Though have to admit seeing other authors leave reviews always put me on a high) However the ones I remembered the most was those who commented on certain aspects of the chapter, it showed it didn't just satisfy their fanfic needs but it also got them thinking about what i've written, and wondering what's going to happen next, also like to read what they think is going to happen next.

That's what I try to get through with my reviews, just telling them they did great and to update soon might satisfy some writers but it would make me feel guilty for not leaving a better comment, though I guess in hindsight would be better than leaving no comment at all....but i'm wierd like that.

Edited by harry4e, 29 March 2009 - 11:18 PM.

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#23 The Sincerities

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 12:24 AM

I really don't mind the "Update soon!" reviews. They kinda give me more of a reason to keep writing and motivation.:b

Now, what I hate is when someone reviews on how to improve in a real snobby way. I appreciate the advise but do they really have to say it in such a harsh way? This hasn't happened to me but when I check reviews for other stories, I have run into people who just ramble on about how badly the story is written.
I've given reviews for advise myself but I try to keep it as nice as possible. I don't like hurting feelings.:/

Other than that, I enjoy any kind of review as long as it doesn't have major story bashing.


#24 3.0

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 12:34 AM

QUOTE (peanutbutter126 @ Dec 14 2008, 05:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm satisfied that they bothered to click the review button. It really warms me up read long reviews with comments for improvements and such, but if all they wrote was 'good chapter' or something, I'll just shrug and be contented that I gained something out of my hours of labour. Like NoWhere Man, I have more alerts than I do reviews, but knowing that someone is enjoying my works makes me happy biggrin.gif


Oooh, I totally agree! I think the short ones that just say something along the lines of "I loved it!" are just as nice as the long ones that talk about what you wrote and why they liked it 'cause, like you said, "knowing that someone is enjoying my work makes me happy".

By the way: I'm in love with Only Human. (: I practically pee myself every time I get an email saying you updated. I mean... sweatdrop.gif It's all just very exciting.

#25 Whirlpool-Maelstrom

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 10:06 PM

What ticks me more on reviews is not getting them at all, reviews that don't tell me anything how the person felt about the story, flames and saying for me to hurry.

#26 Mugen no Neko

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:40 PM

Hmm... reviews are of course, fuel for the fire, but I don't care too much since I've never gotten a negative one...

However, I update on my own time... so reviews telling me,"please hurry up and update!!1eleven!!" get on my nerves a bit...

lolz... necroposting biggrin.gif
meh.

#27 Froot

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:37 AM

NECROPOSTER!! rawr.gif *Evil monkey*

Kidding laugh.gif

Aaanyways, I like any review. It shows that they bothered, which is pretty... Rare. biggrin.gif

#28 Nick Soapdish

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:46 AM

Glad that this got bumped. Either I missed it earlier or I'd forgotten about it.

I'm not exactly a writer, but I'm an avid reader. I almost never give reviews. It's not that I don't like the fanfic. I just feel silly making just a "thumbs up" review and it takes a long time for me to come up with a constructive review. And since I'm kinda lazy and never did like book reports ...

But it seems like a lot of you don't mind short and unhelpful reviews so I'll try and get over it myself. I'm sure that getting another "great fic" review is gonna really make a few writers day. tongue.gif

#29 TwilightLink20xx

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:09 AM

Typically I'm happy with a review 'cause it means someone's reading, especially when it's from a new name. I managed to duck all the "LEMONZ, NAO!" reviews by being blunt up front and keeping my fics down to a T level, but I did get someone complaining when I said I wasn't gonna write smut when I first published my first fic. I'm not gonna lie, that one bothered me quite a bit because it goes against my personal convictions to be writing anything like that. That, and well, Naruto and Sakura were still only 16 in my fic, so I wasn't about to go breaking rules anyway.

I guess I get bummed when I don't get constructive reviews, but when I do, God, I'm on freaking cloud 9. The whole reason I write fanfic is to improve my skills and keep them sharp, so it's rewarding to see when people are saying "you're going too fast", "you're slowing down too much", "you're borderline OoC for so and so" and "much better, you've improved here". Alas, that's the perfectionist in me, though xD. Nothing I do will ever be good enough for me, though, because it can ALWAYS better, curse my yearing for improvement!

#30 tricksie

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:50 PM

Hey all -

I'm working on my first fanfic, and it includes a period where Sakura has a romantic relationship with Sasuke.

It's pretty subdued and part of their teamwork, and she moves through it to reconnect to Naruto at the end.

My question is this: How much negativity can I expect for this relationship? Someone mentioned how crazy some people on ff.net can be about NS vs. SS, and I just want to go in with my eyes open.

I'm not going to change my story in the slightest, but since it's my first time posting I don't want to be terribly surprised.

Thanks so much!

#31 Paradox Jast

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 03:10 PM

Generally speaking, the moment you have any SasuSaku in a NaruSaku story, you'll lose a lot of NaruSaku readers, even if they don't review. Most of them can't stand seeing Naruto as any sort of rebound.

As for the reviews specifically... expect flames. If you warn ahead of time, some of them may be more subdued, but I'm almost certain you'll still get some.

#32 tricksie

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 03:47 PM

QUOTE (Paradox Jast @ Dec 2 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Generally speaking, the moment you have any SasuSaku in a NaruSaku story, you'll lose a lot of NaruSaku readers, even if they don't review. Most of them can't stand seeing Naruto as any sort of rebound.

As for the reviews specifically... expect flames. If you warn ahead of time, some of them may be more subdued, but I'm almost certain you'll still get some.



Yikes! Really?

Thanks for the heads up. I suppose it won't matter that for half the story Naruto's in the Akatsuki! Any SS is bad SS. Maybe I will forewarn in the summary. Thanks so much!

#33 Nick Soapdish

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:24 PM

QUOTE (tricksie @ Dec 3 2009, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yikes! Really?

Thanks for the heads up. I suppose it won't matter that for half the story Naruto's in the Akatsuki! Any SS is bad SS. Maybe I will forewarn in the summary. Thanks so much!


Really.

That'd probably be another strike against it actually. There are fans that like both pairings. But for the NaruSaku only fans, it isn't quite that any SS is bad SS. It's probably more accurate that bad SS is good SS. I'm a fairly fanatic NaruSaku fan and would probably be one of those readers that Paradox Jast refers to as quietly leaving, instead of flaming. I've read bajillions of NaruSaku stories and out of the ones that I like (probably over a hundred), I think that only one has any SS - Seduce My Wife! by Doc Destructo.

Forewarning in the summary should do well to keep only the NaruSaku fans that are more accepting of SasuSaku.

Edited by Nick Soapdish, 03 December 2009 - 04:24 PM.


#34 tricksie

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 04:16 PM

Thanks - I'll probably stick a warning in. Since there are a lot of character twists - like Naruto being in Akatsuki - I suppose there are a lot of things people could unhappy about, not just the minor SS.

Good thread too - I've read a lot more reviews on ff.net than I ever have before. What a mixed bag! Some are one line "update soon" or "good job" types, some are flames, some are constructive criticism and some are definitely unconstructive criticism. I'll be sure to put on some armor before I post! smile.gif

#35 Gravenimage

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 03:15 AM

The only review I will hate is a flame. dry.gif
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#36 ciardha

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 05:43 AM

QUOTE (Nick Soapdish @ Nov 30 2009, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Glad that this got bumped. Either I missed it earlier or I'd forgotten about it.

I'm not exactly a writer, but I'm an avid reader. I almost never give reviews. It's not that I don't like the fanfic. I just feel silly making just a "thumbs up" review and it takes a long time for me to come up with a constructive review. And since I'm kinda lazy and never did like book reports ...

But it seems like a lot of you don't mind short and unhelpful reviews so I'll try and get over it myself. I'm sure that getting another "great fic" review is gonna really make a few writers day. tongue.gif


I'm bad about not leaving reviews either because I prefer to actually write more than "good job!" I like best the kind of reviews I leave, pointing out both strengths and weakness in the story. The only ones I don't like are flames from someone who ships another pairing. I sit there and wonder why they read it if they hate the pairing since I always make it obvious what the ship is in my summary. I also refrain from character bashing of heroic characters or antiheroic characters (only outright villains get no love from me, but even with them I tend to minimize their appearances, often they just get mentioned by name and crimes by a heroic or antiheroic character.) in my fanfics, in whatever fandom I've written in over the years. (In X-men comics fandom that ended up even making a non extreme shipper of MagnetoxRogue change to writing MystiquexMagneto because she liked that pairing in one of my fanfics, and had Magneto make a caustic remark about how well suited Gambit and Rogue were, when they did the same thing they did in my fanfic- get engaged and have "oops, got pregnant" before the wedding plotline. I was flattered and amused by the funny homage. Didn't mind Magneto said it caustically because I thought that was quite in character for him.)

Edited by ciardha, 17 January 2010 - 05:52 AM.

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#37 Pink Cherries

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 01:42 AM

Ooh! I just got two terrible reviews for my SasuSaku story (Le gasp! I have committed a taboo). I am still a 100% NaruSaku fan, but I like to do other pairings for fun.

i will hunt u down nd kill u if yu make it a naru saku ok its a SASUSAKU goddamt make sasuke nd skura talk heaps mk? it would be really good if yu made naruto nd sasuke be friends again BUT SASUSAKU ALL THE WAY GOT IT? LOVEITTTTT XXX

First, because I have some NaruSaku moments in my story, this person threatened to kill me. WTF? Just to be clear, it's a SasuSaku story. I like challenging myself and writing a SasuSaku story as a NaruSaku fan is an interesting experience.

Here's another that really ticked me off.
this is rong saske is a killer he tryed to kill sakura and if she had enough strenth he would forse her to have his child naruto really love sakura. and she would love him to ok so dont put this down ok eracit or put naruto in as sakuras love saskes no prince hes a big bad wolf that would kill u naruto is the man with the axe and prince . in other word i hate this ok

While I do agree with this person about the slim to none chances for SasuSaku, does he need to write that? Couldn't he just avoid reading the story? I think this is the same anonymous reviewer that reviewed my other NaruSaku stories. Must have been a shock to see a story for the "enemy" pairing.

#38 Nate River

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE (Pink Cherries 789 @ Nov 27 2010, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ooh! I just got two terrible reviews for my SasuSaku story (Le gasp! I have committed a taboo). I am still a 100% NaruSaku fan, but I like to do other pairings for fun.

i will hunt u down nd kill u if yu make it a naru saku ok its a SASUSAKU goddamt make sasuke nd skura talk heaps mk? it would be really good if yu made naruto nd sasuke be friends again BUT SASUSAKU ALL THE WAY GOT IT? LOVEITTTTT XXX
First, because I have some NaruSaku moments in my story, this person threatened to kill me. WTF? Just to be clear, it's a SasuSaku story. I like challenging myself and writing a SasuSaku story as a NaruSaku fan is an interesting experience.

Here's another that really ticked me off.
this is rong saske is a killer he tryed to kill sakura and if she had enough strenth he would forse her to have his child naruto really love sakura. and she would love him to ok so dont put this down ok eracit or put naruto in as sakuras love saskes no prince hes a big bad wolf that would kill u naruto is the man with the axe and prince . in other word i hate this ok
While I do agree with this person about the slim to none chances for SasuSaku, does he need to write that? Couldn't he just avoid reading the story? I think this is the same anonymous reviewer that reviewed my other NaruSaku stories. Must have been a shock to see a story for the "enemy" pairing.


I've never understood leaving negative reviews/flames over paring choice. That's a creative decision by the author and nothing more. I can understand as a NaruSaku fan not wanting to read SasuSaku, even good SasuSaku, but to flame over an author choosing to write that is ridiculous. Just back out and read something else if you dislike the pairing choice.

The only time I'd write any kind of bad review based on that is if the pairing choices made no sense within the context of the story itself or if the author comes down with "everyone must be paired disease" with no development whatsoever for most of the pairings involved.

#39 Pink Cherries

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE (Nate River @ Dec 2 2010, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've never understood leaving negative reviews/flames over paring choice. That's a creative decision by the author and nothing more. I can understand as a NaruSaku fan not wanting to read SasuSaku, even good SasuSaku, but to flame over an author choosing to write that is ridiculous. Just back out and read something else if you dislike the pairing choice.

The only time I'd write any kind of bad review based on that is if the pairing choices made no sense within the context of the story itself or if the author comes down with "everyone must be paired disease" with no development whatsoever for most of the pairings involved.


Ah...the E.M.B.P disease. I hate those kind of stories.




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