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#1 Lid

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:53 PM

There was an attack early this morning in Orlando, Fla. at around 2 a.m. So far, there are 50 dead and 53 wounded according to most news outlets.

 

Here are some stories on what happened

CBS News: The Lastest

ABC News: What's known about the shooter

NBC News: Overall story about what's happened

 

Here are some stories on how to help

MTV News

CNN

Truly a tragic day for the LGBT community and the city of Orlando. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. It's encouraging seeing the outpouring of support, though, from all those rushing to give blood.


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#2 milan kyuubi

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 07:00 PM

Sad news all around!

 

‘The Voice’ Contestant Christina Grimmie Shot and Killed at Concert


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#3 sushi.

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 07:30 PM

This is just in the pride month too. And media is trying to pin it on muslims instead of homophobic people what a surprise.


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#4 AHK

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 09:52 PM

This is just in the pride month too. And media is trying to pin it on muslims instead of homophobic people what a surprise.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the individual apparently had ties to ISIS. God forbid the media reports something accurately. 


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#5 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 10:01 PM

Didn't the media say that the shooter's family was from Afghanistan and he was born in NY? Nevertheless, my sincere condolences goes out the each of the victims' families. 


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#6 sushi.

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 10:11 PM

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the individual apparently had ties to ISIS. God forbid the media reports something accurately.

:objection: :objection: :objection:

Thank you for the snarky comment, but his ties to ISIS matters little compared to for example what his father has outed to the media. He has said that this was motivated by homophobia(seeing two men kissing a month prior), his ex-wife has claimed he was abusive, and he is said to not be strongly religious.

This man may have ties to ISIS, but that was not the reason for targeting one of the biggest gay bars in town during pride month. It also seems this was a lone act, ISIS works in groups with orders to target not lgbt ppl spesifically, but everyone in the most crowded areas.

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#7 AHK

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 10:24 PM

:objection: :objection: :objection:

Thank you for the snarky comment, but his ties to ISIS matters little compared to for example what his father has outed to the media. He has said that this was motivated by homophobia(seeing two men kissing a month prior), his ex-wife has claimed he was abusive, and he is said to not be strongly religious.

This man may have ties to ISIS, but that was not the reason for targeting one of the biggest gay bars in town during pride month. It also seems this was a lone act, ISIS works in groups with orders to target not lgbt ppl spesifically, but everyone in the most crowded areas.

Given recent events across the world, to say that the ISIS relation is of little import is naive. Ask people in Paris or Brussels how little the ISIS connection matters. He may have been homophobic, but he was a somebody that had tied to ISIS and the media reported on it.

 

ISIS' motivation is to do as much damage as possible, regardless of the demographic involved. This was pretty damaging and was right within their modus operandi. There have been multiple terrorist attacks in recent history that have been perpetrated by one person, the fact that he was alone does not detract from the fact that he had ties to a terrorist organization. It is also worth noting that ISIS took credit for the attack and the man in question pledged his allegiance to ISIS. He and his wife have been divorced for years, he may have not been religious when they were together, but that doesn't mean that couldn't change.

 

Homophobia might have been a motivation as well, and it wouldn't be a surprise if it was because ISIS promotes hate of anything not ISIS. But the media did nothing wrong here, especially from what we've found out about the man. And this is coming from someone who is highly critical of media and it's agenda. They reported what they know. 


Edited by AHK, 12 June 2016 - 10:25 PM.

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#8 sushi.

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 10:33 PM

I still think you're wrong, but I'm just gonna say that I never argued about ISIS in the first place. I got puzzled so I got back to my first comment. I meant not that the shooter has no ties to ISIS at all, but that we shouldn't pin this on muslims, we shouldn't use a tragic event to spread islamophobia. Statistically after crimes perpetrated by middle eastern terrorists, hate crimes against muslims increase, so this is very important to remember.

Remember, ISIS=/=muslim people

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#9 AHK

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 10:45 PM

I still think you're wrong, but I'm just gonna say that I never argued about ISIS in the first place. I got puzzled so I got back to my first comment. I meant not that the shooter has no ties to ISIS at all, but that we shouldn't pin this on muslims, we shouldn't use a tragic event to spread islamophobia. Statistically after crimes perpetrated by middle eastern terrorists, hate crimes against muslims increase, so this is very important to remember.
Remember, ISIS=/=muslim people

I know what you meant, and I responded accordingly. There was a link here between the man and ISIS and the media reported on it. The media did not use this as an excuse to promote or endorse islamophobia, and there hasn't been one news cast that has done anything of the sort. Nobody pinned anything on Muslims, the pinned this on a man with ties to ISIS. I never once equated ISIS to Islam, don't know what the purpose of that disclaimer at the bottom was for.

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#10 Shadow1275

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 10:45 PM

I still think you're wrong, but I'm just gonna say that I never argued about ISIS in the first place. I got puzzled so I got back to my first comment. I meant not that the shooter has no ties to ISIS at all, but that we shouldn't pin this on muslims, we shouldn't use a tragic event to spread islamophobia. Statistically after crimes perpetrated by middle eastern terrorists, hate crimes against muslims increase, so this is very important to remember.

Remember, ISIS=/=muslim people

But Islam specifically forbids Homosexuality and condemns it:

 

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

 

And while I would normally agree that we can't chalk this up to Islam based on this alone according to CNN, Congressman Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said that Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen "made a pledge of allegiance” to Islamic State and was “heard praying in a foreign language.”  

 

That and the fact that he made a 911 call pledging himself to Isis is pretty damning evidence that it was motivated by Homophobia caused by his religion. Something that cannot be ignored for the sake of political correctness. 


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#11 sushi.

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 11:43 PM

The quran also forbids violence. So, we're even. But do you know what the bible say about lgbt people? I hear little about christian terrorists.. Doesn't matter anyway because if the criminal is a white person, they are 'mentally ill' 'misguided' 'a man with a promising future'. If it is a muslim, the religion is all that is needed to find motivation. Now I'm of course not only speaking about this incident, if you don't turn a blind eye to this injustice you will notice the racist pattern.

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#12 AHK

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 11:55 PM

The quran also forbids violence. So, we're even. But do you know what the bible say about lgbt people? I hear little about christian terrorists.. Doesn't matter anyway because if the criminal is a white person, they are 'mentally ill' 'misguided' 'a man with a promising future'. If it is a muslim, the religion is all that is needed to find motivation. Now I'm of course not only speaking about this incident, if you don't turn a blind eye to this injustice you will notice the racist pattern.

That's not true. Sometimes it happens that way, but sometimes they're actually mentally impaired. Other times, like the church shooting in Charleston (I believe) that is a hate crime. Where the media fails is not educating the community with what a terrorist act is. People on tumblr and Twitter and other forms of social media literally have no idea the actual definition of terrorism and turn to the example you provided in order to lash out at whites as a form of perceived injustice, when they are ignorant of what it is they're trying to define.

The media misconstrues many things. Your example of white criminals sometimes being portrayed as "mentally ill" etc is incredibly unfair when the person in question is not any of the things you described. But in the same way you mentioned that unfair stigma, you should consider the media's recent portrayal of white cops, and it's the same conversation but flipped.

Sometimes it's justified they way they do things, as in this case, sometimes it's not. Welcome to the world. It's not fair for anybody, not just one group.

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#13 Shadow1275

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 12:05 AM

The quran also forbids violence. So, we're even. But do you know what the bible say about lgbt people? I hear little about christian terrorists.. Doesn't matter anyway because if the criminal is a white person, they are 'mentally ill' 'misguided' 'a man with a promising future'. If it is a muslim, the religion is all that is needed to find motivation. Now I'm of course not only speaking about this incident, if you don't turn a blind eye to this injustice you will notice the racist pattern.

Where does the quran forbid violence? It forbids violence against anyone except for non muslims. 5:23 of the quran is the most often cited verse to evidence this. But parts are often omitted. The entire verse states the following:

 

"5:32: “For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah’s sovereignty), but afterwards lo! Many of them become prodigals of the earth.”

 

The important part is corruption in the earth for it refers to anything that is considered obscene in islam. This is why you can have a quote assigning death by stoning alongside 5:23.

 

The Quran does not forbid violence against non-muslims.

 

And when it comes to the media who gets the advantage. For example, how come the media does not report the "Sexual Emergency" rape of an Austrian boy for 7 months?

 

In fact, how come the police reported being told to be sensitive with cases involving migrants because they had "been through a lot"? How is that fair?


Edited by Shadow1275, 13 June 2016 - 12:07 AM.

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#14 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 03:32 AM

Religion of "peace" strikes again. 

 

Honestly, if westerners would get over themselves, throw political correctness in the trash where it belongs, and actually FIGHT these animals, they would have been wiped out by now. But no. We're too afraid of hurting their feelings. Hell, Hillary Clinton won't even call the enemy what they are. "Islamic Terrorists". There's no 'ifs, and's, or buts' about it.  So long as Islam is allowed to exist there can be no such thing as world peace. 


Edited by Dalton.T.R, 13 June 2016 - 03:35 AM.


#15 AHK

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 05:15 AM

Religion of "peace" strikes again. 
 
Honestly, if westerners would get over themselves, throw political correctness in the trash where it belongs, and actually FIGHT these animals, they would have been wiped out by now. But no. We're too afraid of hurting their feelings. Hell, Hillary Clinton won't even call the enemy what they are. "Islamic Terrorists". There's no 'ifs, and's, or buts' about it.  So long as Islam is allowed to exist there can be no such thing as world peace.

1.) "world peace" is not attainable.
2.) every religion has extremists. How many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity? Jewish actions towards Palestinians (and Islamic action towards Jews) have been less than noble.

Your view is part of the problem, it makes you no better than the people were trying to stop.

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#16 alexander

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 12:51 PM

1.) "world peace" is not attainable.
2.) every religion has extremists. How many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity? Jewish actions towards Palestinians (and Islamic action towards Jews) have been less than noble.

Your view is part of the problem, it makes you no better than the people were trying to stop.

 

You are wrong as well. You follow the "batman mentality". That if I kill my enemy I am no better then him, and thus, your unwillingness to act causes the suffering of countless innocents. It is true, most religions are extremist, but it doesn't change that islam, by far, is the worst. It polutes the minds of millions with primitive ideals that are now being forced into western civiliation because the the liberal marxists couldn't be any more ignorant.

 

I'm baffled people even attempt to call this a "phobia". Islam is a religion, a ideology. People are not born with it, they choose it, or are made to choose it. It's entirely my right to be against an ideology that I consider vile.


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#17 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 01:07 PM

 

You are wrong as well. You follow the "batman mentality". That if I kill my enemy I am no better then him, and thus, your unwillingness to act causes the suffering of countless innocents. It is true, most religions are extremist, but it doesn't change that islam, by far, is the worst. It polutes the minds of millions with primitive ideals that are now being forced into western civiliation because the the liberal marxists couldn't be any more ignorant.

 

I'm baffled people even attempt to call this a "phobia". Islam is a religion, a ideology. People are not born with it, they choose it, or are made to choose it. It's entirely my right to be against an ideology that I consider vile.

Thank you. Finally someone with some common sense.

 

AHK, on 13 Jun 2016 - 12:15 AM, said:snapback.png

1.) "world peace" is not attainable.
2.) every religion has extremists. How many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity? Jewish actions towards Palestinians (and Islamic action towards Jews) have been less than noble.

Your view is part of the problem, it makes you no better than the people were trying to stop.

 

I dunno. How about you tell me. Name the last Christian that went around cutting people's heads off for not being Christian. I'll wait.


Edited by Nate River, 13 June 2016 - 02:11 PM.
Edited by Nate River to combine posts.


#18 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 02:02 PM

So tragic. My sympathies go out to the families and loved ones of the victims.

 

I dunno. How about you tell me. Name the last Christian that went around cutting people's heads off for not being Christian. I'll wait.

 

The Spanish Inquisition resulted in countless deaths of people who refused to practice Catholicism, Henry VIII persecuted Catholics, Mary Tudor burned Protestants at the stake, the Crusades was a violent war fought in the name of Christianity. Honestly, there are plenty of examples throughout history of the Christian religion being used to justify atrocities against other human beings. I come from a Christian background myself, but I can't ignore that it's history really is not the greatest. Most religions when practiced to the extreme will result in the persecution of others who do not believe the same way, Christianity is not an exception.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents. I don't want to start a debate or anything, so I'm gonna go now. 


Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 13 June 2016 - 02:04 PM.


#19 Nate River

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 02:09 PM

I dunno. How about you tell me. Name the last Christian that went around cutting people's heads off for not being Christian. I'll wait.

 

 

Dood, can you knock of the double posting in current event/politics threads? If you need to add something, then amend your post and don't double post.



#20 AHK

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 02:59 PM

You are wrong as well. You follow the "batman mentality". That if I kill my enemy I am no better then him, and thus, your unwillingness to act causes the suffering of countless innocents. It is true, most religions are extremist, but it doesn't change that islam, by far, is the worst. It polutes the minds of millions with primitive ideals that are now being forced into western civiliation because the the liberal marxists couldn't be any more ignorant.
 
I'm baffled people even attempt to call this a "phobia". Islam is a religion, a ideology. People are not born with it, they choose it, or are made to choose it. It's entirely my right to be against an ideology that I consider vile.

There's always another option, killing them is not always the best option, nor should it be thrown about as easily as you would have it.

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