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Making sense of the Ending.

Naruto the end 699 700 narusaku naruhina sasusaku kishimoto Sakura Sasuke

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#1 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:24 AM

So I'm not a regular around here, I would mainly hide among the shadows and read peoples opinions on whatever the most recent chapter brought us as far as plot development. That being said the end has come and passed, and to many of us (if not all) it has brought much disappointment, shock, confusion, anger, sadness, etc. I felt and continue to feel this way about the ending my self, after investing so much time and attention to this series only to get burned.

 

I've accepted it for what it is though, but I couldn't help but wonder 'why?'. What factors could there have been that lead to it ending the way it did. So I decided to bring up the discussion to you guys and see what you think. So there are two primary questions that I'm going to raise with a few of my theories as to what could lead Kishimoto to take his story down this route.

 

For those who haven't read the last two chapters. Spoiler central.

 

First question: What factors could have lead Kishimoto to end the manga the way he did?

 

Now I have a few ideas as to why...

 

  • Perhaps the editors at Jump sat down together with him and discussed the different potential avenues to go down. Let's face it, based on the pairings alone there was bound to be backlash. Regardless of who ended up with who. Do ya' think that maybe the heads at jump had statistics or some sort of information to show which of these pairings were the more popular, both regionally and globally? If that's the case maybe that swayed Kishi to go with the safer couples to save him self the even BIGGER backlash he would have gotten if he went against the majority of the fans.
  • Convenience maybe? Not that I think it would have been hard to write for NaruSaku since they've had development for the entire series, but more so for Sasuke and Hinata. Where exactly would their characters be if they didn't end up with Sakura or Naruto? It seems to me that he wanted to end it in a similar fashion to Harry Potter where everyone ends up with someone, with kids, living happily ever after. Just pairing Sasuke with Hinata wouldn't have made much sense, though he could have paired Sasuke with Karin or Hinata with Kiba(maybe...)
  • Could it be that since he was (or at least it seems so to me) rushing to resolve everything by 700 that he had no other alternative? I mean, I personally believe he should have had another 10 chapters at least to weave some threads together. If he did take that option he could have worked on how Naruto developed towards becoming Hokage, as well as each characters feelings for whoever they may have had an interest towards. Also giving us an idea as to what may have happened to some of the other characters that didn't even make an appearance in the finale. That's just a few things among many others that he could have touched upon. 
  • Or just maybe this was the way he had envisioned the ending to go, I mean you can't blame a person for writing the story that they want to write. He had stated a few years back also that he had already had the ending planned in his head (or something like that..)

That last point brings me to my second question, which probably has no real answer to it. This one has more to do with NaruSaku than the ending as a whole in general. Basically...

 

Second Question: Why all the development? Why lead us on for YEARS? if he had know it was going to end this way.

 

Think of all the reasons why we collectively supported this pairing from a canon stand point. From Naruto's initial feelings for her from the beginning of the series, the promise of a lifetime, Yamatos chit chat with her on Naruto after the bridge incident, Sai's confrontation to both of them and their feelings for one another, Kushina's dying wish for him, all the parallels, the hug, the kiss, the chemistry, the list goes on.... and on.

 

So why go through all the trouble? I feel this ending would have been embraced a bit more (not much though) if he had never even alluded to Naruto having feelings for Sakura. That way we would have just accepted the outcome in the finale, because there would have been no development for the two. Now he's having to deal with a disgruntled faction of his fanbase. He either should have answered all the questions to the pairings a looooong time ago, or not have touched it at all. Regardless of who ended up with who. Honestly even though Sasuke and Hinata didn't get as much development with their respective couples as NaruSaku did with one another, it still would have raised the same question only towards another pairing.

 

Why sprinkle this stuff in if you're bound to upset your loyal fans? 

 

The way he did it was unfair to us as well, because if he did take another 10 to 50 chapters to flesh out the relationships then at least we could have seen why it ended up the way it did. We could have seen Narutos confession to Sakura and her response, we could have see his response to Hinatas confession from the pain arc, we could have seen where Sasuke and Karin stood with one another. There could have been a wealth of options for him to allow us to accept his vision a bit more easily. Instead he didn't, and just shoved this conclusion and epilogue down our throats.

 

Say what you will about Kishimoto, but I'm sure he's an intelligent man. He had to know this was going to upset many people. Do you think he just kept teasing the pairing on us to keep up his sales? While it not being a primary reason for a person to read the series, it still kept many of us to come back to have some sort of resolution. We're talking about almost (what is it?) TWO YEARS of a war arc, and you're telling me you couldn't have found some time before, during, or after to resolve the feelings these characters have for one another?

 

I think the real reason over any other as to why he did it though, was because he didn't want to upset his fans earlier than he should have. I think he was afraid of the backlash (though I obviously don't know the man, nor do I have anything to substantiate my theory) because maybe he didn't know right away what he was doing with the pairings, and didn't know that it would have snowballed the way it did with having these different factions of fans supporting these couples. So perhaps he forced him self into a corner and just wanted to please all the fans by giving snippets here and there until he needed to make a decision.

 

Because I think he was the first to admit way back during part 1 that he didn't even know how to write romance all to well to begin with. Well, it shows Kishimoto. It shows.

 

Well that's some of the ideas that I think could have lead to this debacle, let me know some of yours.


Edited by Kundalini_Master, 07 November 2014 - 12:33 AM.

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#2 tricksie

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 02:43 AM

My thoughts are along the same lines. Why, why, why. And yes, some things don't add up.

 

So I have a feeling that Kishimoto took a payout to keep the story going, just following along with the already established NH/SS bent of the anime. 

 

I also have a feeling that whatever is going to be the New Era Project, Kishimoto won't be involved. I mean, if he wants out of the original series so badly, why sign on for Naruto 2.0+kids?

 

However, I do think he was writing an NS ending up until near the very end. Think about RtN which he was heavily involved in. That is the most NS movie out there. The whole things works because NS is the main pairing. 

 

I think Kishimoto took a paycheck and passed the story over to other hands (with him remaining as creative director of course) and one of the stipulations was to make the manga work with the anime. It had to be NH/SS. And I think he finally relented and gave up. That's why nothing is resolved, Naruto's love goes unrequited, etc. It just ends abruptly and there's an OOC epilogue.

 

I know the movie will supposedly fill in those holes, but it will never be part of the canon version, the one that came from Kishimoto's hand. On some level I just think he was finished. And he let go of all the development and just ended it. So disappointing.



#3 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 03:21 AM

Can't make sense out of nonsense. Good post though.


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#4 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 03:59 AM

My thoughts are along the same lines. Why, why, why. And yes, some things don't add up.

 

So I have a feeling that Kishimoto took a payout to keep the story going, just following along with the already established NH/SS bent of the anime. 

 

I also have a feeling that whatever is going to be the New Era Project, Kishimoto won't be involved. I mean, if he wants out of the original series so badly, why sign on for Naruto 2.0+kids?

 

However, I do think he was writing an NS ending up until near the very end. Think about RtN which he was heavily involved in. That is the most NS movie out there. The whole things works because NS is the main pairing. 

 

I think Kishimoto took a paycheck and passed the story over to other hands (with him remaining as creative director of course) and one of the stipulations was to make the manga work with the anime. It had to be NH/SS. And I think he finally relented and gave up. That's why nothing is resolved, Naruto's love goes unrequited, etc. It just ends abruptly and there's an OOC epilogue.

 

I know the movie will supposedly fill in those holes, but it will never be part of the canon version, the one that came from Kishimoto's hand. On some level I just think he was finished. And he let go of all the development and just ended it. So disappointing.

 

Has the New Era been confirmed? and couldn't it have worked just as easily if not more with Naruto and Sakura's kids? Are we basically in for Dragon Ball GT all over again?

 

Fine, maybe the movie will be able to make up for the 10 chapters extra that I felt were needed to flesh the ending out. Apparently he helped write the script as well. If you think about it though it's been 2 years since the last film. So that means he knew this was going to happen at least 3 years in advance. Yet still in those three years we got a bunch more in development towards NaruSaku than any other pairing. You'd think since he helped write the script that it would influence the direction in which he would take the manga and start to focus on NaruHina and SasuSaku way before the end and divert from NaruSaku. That wasn't the case at all though.


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#5 tricksie

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:03 AM

Eh, I didn't realize he was that involved in this script as well. And yes you're right, it could have moved forward if it was NS child. I really don't know why he went that way. I just think at some point he changed direction. It doesn't erase all the development, but I feel like the ending is for an entirely different series than the one I've been reading.



#6 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:03 AM

Can't make sense out of nonsense. Good post though.

 

I knew that as I was typing this out, but I feel there is a difference between venting out our discontent towards the ending and trying to understand the outside or background factors that could have lead to this. In hindsight now that tricksie mentioned the movie I have a feeling they knew they were going to do this for a good couple of years now. Which sucks because they knew they were leading us on to keep the readership going... That's my theory at least...


Edited by Kundalini_Master, 07 November 2014 - 04:56 AM.

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#7 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:10 AM

Eh, I didn't realize he was that involved in this script as well. And yes you're right, it could have moved forward if it was NS child. I really don't know why he went that way. I just think at some point he changed direction. It doesn't erase all the development, but I feel like the ending is for an entirely different series than the one I've been reading.

 

Yup, I had to do a quick search just to make sure that my info wasn't wrong

 

http://www.animenews...cember-6/.76952

 

"Manga creator Masashi Kishimoto is credited with the original story, character designs, and chief story supervisor of the film. In particular, he is drawing new designs for the title characters in the movie. The magazine notes for one set of designs, titled "Ramen Ichiraku": "Naruto's body is very toned, his hair is cut short, and his expression is one of an adult."

 

But yeah, I totally agree with you this ending didn't live up to the legacy of the series. There were too many loose threads, out of charter moments, and pills shoved down our throats. I honestly wouldn't have minded who ended up with who if the development supported it, but the ending kinda contradicts the rest of the series on many levels.


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#8 tricksie

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:11 AM

/\ And if you think about how they released the sketches for "The Last," Naruto and Sakura was released together. And Hinata was further behind, like she always is. At some point, character development became a bait-and-switch. 

 

At the latest, they would have decided the ending when they were conceptualizing "The Last." So maybe during or immediately after RtN. But yeah, it really starts to suck the more you think about it.

 

On the other hand, the storyline has been dismal for a while, and the progression of final villains really went nowhere. I think Kishimoto gave up a while ago, and the awful handling of the pairings and of Naruto and Sakura's personal storylines is just another drop in the bucket.



#9 tricksie

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:15 AM

 

Yup, I had to do a quick search just to make sure that my info wasn't wrong

 

http://www.animenews...cember-6/.76952

 

"Manga creator Masashi Kishimoto is credited with the original story, character designs, and chief story supervisor of the film. In particular, he is drawing new designs for the title characters in the movie. The magazine notes for one set of designs, titled "Ramen Ichiraku": "Naruto's body is very toned, his hair is cut short, and his expression is one of an adult."

 

But yeah, I totally agree with you this ending didn't live up to the legacy of the series. There were too many loose threads, out of charter moments, and pills shoved down our throats. I honestly wouldn't have minded who ended up with who if the development supported it, but the ending kinda contradicts the rest of the series on many levels.

 

Oh man, I had no idea. That really stinks. Okay, I don't have too many good theories other than Kishimoto re-upped his contract, and moving the series to NH/SS to continue it was part of the deal. 

 

And yes, I'm of the same mind — if the development of the Hinata and Sasuke romances has been there, in any way, shape or form, I would be more understanding. But it wasn't. Kishimoto just callously threw out half of his fandom. And the other half are pleased only in that they got the final end pairing, but there was never any storyline there to support it. So really, they lost out too. 

 

There is some small comfort in that, I suppose. Kishimoto didn't just wound the NS fandom by undoing the development...he copped out on the entire series. There was no resolution. Just an epilogue. 



#10 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:35 AM

/\ And if you think about how they released the sketches for "The Last," Naruto and Sakura was released together. And Hinata was further behind, like she always is. At some point, character development became a bait-and-switch. 

 

At the latest, they would have decided the ending when they were conceptualizing "The Last." So maybe during or immediately after RtN. But yeah, it really starts to suck the more you think about it.

 

On the other hand, the storyline has been dismal for a while, and the progression of final villains really went nowhere. I think Kishimoto gave up a while ago, and the awful handling of the pairings and of Naruto and Sakura's personal storylines is just another drop in the bucket.

 

 

 

Oh man, I had no idea. That really stinks. Okay, I don't have too many good theories other than Kishimoto re-upped his contract, and moving the series to NH/SS to continue it was part of the deal. 

 

And yes, I'm of the same mind — if the development of the Hinata and Sasuke romances has been there, in any way, shape or form, I would be more understanding. But it wasn't. Kishimoto just callously threw out half of his fandom. And the other half are pleased only in that they got the final end pairing, but there was never any storyline there to support it. So really, they lost out too. 

 

There is some small comfort in that, I suppose. Kishimoto didn't just wound the NS fandom by undoing the development...he copped out on the entire series. There was no resolution. Just an epilogue. 

 

Yeah, I felt personally that Naruto's fight with Sasuke was anti-climatic. I think the issue lies in that we went from a bunch of battles in the war that was already almost a year of fighting to fighting Obito and Madara, then godly obito, then godly Madara, then Kaguya, and then the final fight. There was no rest, or time for development among the fighting, so everyone took the back seat to what was ultimately Naruto and Sasuke's show.

 

I really wonder what's the demographic among Naruto fans that are for NaruSaku, NaruHina, and SasuSaku and if Shonen Jump actually has figures or info on that stuff. Because I'm sure Kishi's editors told him the various outcomes of the way he could have approached the ending. They all had to know they were going to piss a lot of people off.


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#11 tricksie

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:44 AM

Yes, above all this was not a whim or decision of creative passion. Going this route, ending it at this point was a business decision. They would have had meetings, looked at numbers and played out all the scenarios. In the end, I'm sure they chose the one that would bring them most flexibility in going forward. And having it go NH/SS builds in an automatic dangling carrot for the hope of an NS-type relationship with the child. 

 

I wonder if they are shooting for a younger age group and that by focusing on the 'next generation' they are hoping ot just pull off a Naruto reboot in a more modern universe? Same storyline, same characters, more attractive world, more relatable city and technology.

 

But yes, I agree whole-heartedly. The decision to end it this way and at this point had been made a long time ago. And it was made for monetary reasons, not creative ones. 



#12 Nate River

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:50 AM

I would be curious as to when it was made because if the dye had been cast why continue to make NS connects like Minato said about Sakura. Again, why not use the remaining time to actually try to support you end game? As contrived as it would have been to keep Hinata out of IT at least she'd be around for development. 



#13 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:55 AM

But to that end, I wonder if it may have been a better idea to leave the ending a bit more open ended. Did we as fans really need to see every character have children and a family, but no real significant dialogue or reflection on past events. I think I would have been more satisfied if Naruto just became Hokage at a younger age, and allude that there were romances going in a few different directions. Mainly  though to have more intimate scenes with the characters with another after going through what they did and discussing their feelings about the current world that they live in and for one another..


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#14 rikakim94

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:59 AM

Well i heard that kishi has fried 7 editors for some reasons? Did anyone else heard anything about this?


Edited by rikakim94, 07 November 2014 - 05:00 AM.


#15 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:03 AM

I would be curious as to when it was made because if the dye had been cast why continue to make NS connects like Minato said about Sakura. Again, why not use the remaining time to actually try to support you end game? As contrived as it would have been to keep Hinata out of IT at least she'd be around for development. 

 

That's what I'm saying. If they have been planning this for a while, if Kishi was being honest in saying that he knew how the story would end. Then why have the parallels between Sakura and Kushina? Why Have Minato make the girlfriend comment? Why have Sakura kiss Naruto even if it was to keep him alive? I think the only reason there could have been was because they knew they were too deep into the pairing wars to let one go for another, that it would have effected the readership badly. They basically had to troll us....  


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#16 Kundalini_Master

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:09 AM

Well i heard that kishi has fried 7 editors for some reasons? Did anyone else heard anything about this?

 

I don't think that's true, unless you're talking about the full 15 years, then maybe. I did a quick search and found that his most recent editor only started working with him since summer of this year, and that his previous one had been the one that created or influenced the creation of killer bee. Who has been around for like 4, 5 years now.


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#17 rikakim94

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:29 AM

 

I don't think that's true, unless you're talking about the full 15 years, then maybe. I did a quick search and found that his most recent editor only started working with him since summer of this year, and that his previous one had been the one that created or influenced the creation of killer bee. Who has been around for like 4, 5 years now.

 

I don't know one user named twlightlinkxx made a video that kishi has friend several editors. heres the link.

 


Edited by rikakim94, 07 November 2014 - 05:30 AM.


#18 Jenskott

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 09:44 AM

I agree with Tricksie in everything.

 

I think that in some time their editors convinced him to make this ending, and he gave up and gave in. Yet he was not interested on developing NH/SS, so that on one hand he gave some hints of Sakura not being over Sasuke... and on the other hand he wrote that she trusted him no longer, that Naruto considered her kind of his girlfriend, the infamous CPR scene. And he procastinated it so long as he was able to until chapter 693. And then in chapter 699 Sakura and Naruto not even interact -despite of them being always together up to that point- and Sakura suddenly treats Sasuke like if he was Naruto, and Sasuke actually behaves like if he was Naruto, and in chapter 700 Naruto has gott married to Hinata out of nowhere, with no explanation of how or why it happened. Everything is incredibly jarring.

 

Why? Because it was demanded that was the ending, in despite of the history's progression did not lead to it.

 

It kind of reminds me of the what happened with Marvel mega-crossover Civil War. In that -bad- story, the Marvel heroes split up in two sides: the pro-Registration side thinks that super-heroes must be legally registered, and the anti-Registration side that thinks against it. The -publically stated- editorial intent was what the story showed that each side had valid reasons supporting their position, but the pro-Reg were ultimately proven right. However, the main writers involved loathed the Bush Administration (please, do not start a political debate) and they identified the pro-Reg side with that Administration. So that for dozens of issues they depicted the pro-Reg heroes like baby-eaters fascists and heartless tyrants capable to commit any atrocity... only to turn around in the last issue and tell that they were right and the anti-Reg side was wrong.

 

It was VERY jarring (and it reminded me why I do not want politics in my entertainment, but that is a different matter).


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#19 8Hogake

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 01:09 PM

In Batman 52  Barbara Gordon cheating on Nightwing with Batman?

That's so wrong. She had a miscarriage but we don't know if the kid was Bruce's or Nightwing.



#20 SuperChief

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 01:35 PM

NH + SS = pleasing the most people possible in Japan

 

NS might have been slightly bigger than NH, but SK wasn't enough to make up for the lack of SS, which is the biggest hetero pairing.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Naruto, the end, 699, 700, narusaku, naruhina, sasusaku, kishimoto, Sakura, Sasuke

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