tricksie

Also, it's so funny how everyone consistently forgets that it was part of Naruto's goals to earn Sakura's affection. This was supposed to be about him right? That was one of the goals that was thrown away if you think about it. Even in the final chapters, you have Kakashi say 'I like you guys' in comparison to what he said very early on in the series. But Naruto's feeling for Sakura? Sakura saying that she didn't like Naruto in the beginning? The bench scene? Crickets. All of it was purposely ignored. We even had forehead poke from Sasuke at the end and from what I can remember Naruto looking at them defeated. What a mess! But this is a story about Naruto and his goals right? Oh oops, I forgot, he had to be reserved, like a pick up item at a grocery store, for Hinata's movie.

Naruto's goals were to win the Sakura's affection and become Kage. Neither of which happened in the end. The manga had one job...get the title character to end with his goals accomplished. One job....

There are SO MANY reasons to like EdWin!!! I never felt like I ever had to explain what a marvellous couple they are

Love FMA, still do. It's just so dang good. Same with AtLA. Both are still so awesome.

The movie was literally necessary to have, because they needed to override the fact that Sakura was Naruto's love interest in the manga and why his goal to earn Sakura's affection was obliterated. It's hilariously funny at best how people will justify a minor secondary character getting a whole movie dedicated to her.

 

...

 

And I'm sorry for any person who feels differently, but the same applies to SK with regards to Sasuke's feelings. I'm not out here advocating for SK at all. Sasuke never held any inkling of romantic feelings for Karin in the manga. The thing with SK is that they grew up in similar environments/upbringing (Orichimaru). That their own goals and status within the world were similar. And most notably, that Karin's unique personality complimented Sasuke's harsh/blunt one. And to top it all off, she was revealed to be an Uzumaki, a huge symbolic act. There was absolutely no need for Karin to be an Uzumaki because she isn't the only female with red hair in the series. The entirety of SK in the manga is that if Sasuke were to end up with anyone, it would obviously have been her. The absolute most we would have gotten in the manga is Sasuke warming up to her, that's it. The treatment Karin got from SS fans was beyond horrendous.

YESSSSS!!!!! Hinata needed her own damn movie! That should tell you something! 10+ years of a manga, and it wasn't enough to make it painfully clear that she was the love interest?!? Seriously, I can't believe that hinata fans would but it either. But they did.

And every point you make about Karin is completely true. Why make her so similar to Sasuke's personality and background, why give her a parallel 'ending' to Sakura and Naruto, and above all, why make her an Uzumaki?!?!?!?! What was the point of that if it wasn't to complete the circle of their rivalry? If he's with Karin, then now he and Naruto would be family, in a way. The Uzumaki connection of both her and Nagato went absolutely nowhere. After the Pain arc, Naruto's Uzumaki background was competely dropped. Which was bad news for Karin. She was completely abandoned until the very end, then SK was brought back as a decoy, just like NS was. Grrrr.... still makes me mad!

They're on my Tumblr pages, I have an old archive of interviews but yeah, Kishi said those things.

 

Problem is I have over 5000 Tumblr pages and with me becoming more active nowadays, it's even harder to search through everything...

 

But he said that, he also said something like Sakura is addicted to Sasuke and so many other weird things...

Kishimoto is just gross in his worship of Sasuke, even destroying Sakura for it. Grooooooooossssss

 

I still don't know how SS fans can say the relationship is healthy after that interview 

 

Same here, Blue. I bet it's just their fetish to imagine themselves in Sakura's shoes, like many NH fans are like that with imagining themselves in Naruto's shoes. XP

SS is based off lies and NH is based off a manipulation, guilt, and lies as well.

 

On one hand, we have Sakura-Chan who doesn't know that her heart actually belongs to Naruto, while Sasuke OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to be with her.

 

Then on the next hand, we have Naruto who is actively lying to himself and being with a woman he doesn't even want in Hinata instead of being with the woman of his dreams in Sakura-Chan, while Hinata is just selectively blind to seeing that Naruto doesn't want to be with her either, all because he's "Naruto-Kun."

 

Then poor Karin who is out of the loop is getting screwed over all because they want to force SS with two people(Sakura-Chan and Sasuke) who don't even truly want to be with each other.

SS is so far from healthy it's in a different universe. Sasuke is 'awarded' with someone he doesn't want, and Naruto is 'awarded' to someone who doesn't do anything to deserve him. Neither Sakura nor Naruto are loved or respected. They are completely stripped of their character motivation and given to two characters who were largely absent from the bulk of the story.

And Karin, who wanted to be with Sasuke, and whom he appeared to return some screwed up affection for, was left out in the cold.

Boba Fett was my one of my faves when I was a kid. Loooooving that his legacy lives on in the Mandalorian. RIP.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!!     

All I really remember is that people quoted the databook 2 Sasuke thing a ton as an argument for SS before the ending. However that "with the emotion called love" is new. It used to just be about Sakura filling his lonely existence or something. Though I think it had more to do with Sakura being one of the people who helped Sasuke not feel lonely anymore. 

I don't know about the "even" part. You'd need the RAWs and a non-bias translator to figure that out. 
I've never heard SS argue the 4th databook line of "Sakura being the last person he wanted to hurt". That's new to me and I used to be very involved with the Naruto pairing debates. Granted it was mostly against NH fans since SS was considered crack at the time.

But Sasuke not wanting to hurt Sakura isn't proof of love??? I think he always acknowledged her kindness and appreciated it, hence his 'thank you' after her confession in part 1. But from what I can see, databook 4 was after the end of the manga. So...it doesn't surprise me that they'd put pro-SS in it when it happened.
Last person he wanted to hurt though...pfft, maybe because she was the last person on his mind. And he was pretty quick and unhesitating in hurting her every time they met in part 2 outside of the War arc.

So, the whole 'look how much he DIDN'T hurt her as proof of love' trope is always gross. Same here.

And though Sasuke may have had a connection to her in the beginning — it's valid, Sakura was able to reach him and it was recognized by others around them — he shredded whatever connection he had to her when he left. 

If SS was to have happened and validated by the end, then there should have been a circling around to that connection in the end chapters. Sakura would have tried to reach him, and he would have relented. He would have reacted to her and her alone.

But nope. Instead, it was just more straight-up abuse from Sasuke!! 

It's crazy to me how many SS people just forget how toxic that ship is, and how many people now looooooooove Sakura when they were 'meh' before. It's becasue of SS, which like NH, simply doesn't exist in the manga.

 

Another point of contention on that is that the Hyuga are Purists that adhere to their clan matters ONLY within the clan and want all marriages to be exclusively within the clan too I am assuming so why would they even appprve of a marriage from the main branch's first daughter with an outsider, no matter how prestigous he ended up becoming or how distantly related they are? But they BS'd Hiashi to being a doting, embarassing grandfather, but besides the point    It is true that the In-la dynamic between Naruto and the Hyugas is very strange and OOC at the very least

And the case could be made that the Hyuuga wanted to lowkey oust the Uchiha all along, making them the most powerful clan in the village. (That's their only family backstory right? Sacrifice everything for the benefit of the clan. *looking at you neji*) The Uchiha massacre, while a tragedy, worked in their favor.

So when their only un-sealed shinobi, Hinata, manages to catch the eye of the village screw-up-turned-powerhouse, you can imagine that the wheels would already be turning within the clan to make sure there is no way Naruto slips away.

Fast forward, then, to the next gen, they're married with kids, and the world of Konoha has the Hyuugas cemented as the most powerful clan in the village with a direct line to the Hokage. What would they do to keep that power? What wouldn't they do?

How is Naruto not defacto head of the next Uchiha-type clan? Not only did he not break the cycle, he seriously is just restarting the Uchiha clan dynamic within the village for the next generation!

New chapter up for Voice in the Wind!

Well, it's a decent manga cover. But the color schemes:

 

Green, black and pink?! The hell kind of color scheme is that?! It's like their in a fraternity/sorority.

 

And why Sarada keeps wearing an ascot? Besides Fred from Scooby-Doo, that is not a style.

Fred and Daphne had a hooker baby who stole Velma's tights.

Seriously - they all look like they stole some man's airport luggage and made outfits out of what they found in it. Nothing fits them. 

Sarada looks like a hooker.    

I think the reason was because they need Karin to come in and say "I am not your mom" despite looking alike in almost every way.
 

Right!  - I would almost be tempted to think they were leaving themselves a back-door out in case they wanted to reboot the series and say it was just a dream or jutsu or something.... But I think that would be giving them too much credit. I just don't think they're that creative.

 

"Babyish"? Please. All I see is soulless eyes, even when she show emotions. It's down right creepy.  For reason, it also ties to Neji and Hanabi but those two look way better.

Right. She's not babyish. She's the embodiment of passivity. Which is gross because her storyline revolves around how over-developed physically she is. 

Kishi created an objectified doll/princess strictly for male fantasy and used her as a plot device to distract the hero...and he wonders why his manga went down the shipping toilet. It's his own fault.

Even the sympathy her fans feel for her is misguided. It's the creator who wrecked her character potential and left her un-developed emotionally. No one else. And certainly not NS fans. 

Yes indeed. Let's not forget the umbilical cord fiasco.

So, for those who aren't familiar with Japanese culture; umbilical cord is normally kept securely by Japanese Mothers.

I know my Japanese friends keep their children's umbilical cord as part of the tradition (to be given to the children when they grow up, or when they leave the house to be independent, e.g. married).

Keeping it securely shows how much the mother appreciate their children (hence their husband to the extent) as they keep reminded about the cord that 'connects' the two. Literally.

Now, we were shown that Sarada's umbilical cord is not in Sakura's custody. And the manga explained that it's a symbol of connection between Sakura and Karin. In which Sakura gave to Karin as a symbol of friendship. lol. What a load of BS.

"Hey Karin, Sasuke is mine now, thanks for helping me deliver his daughter. Here, you can have my baby's umbilical cord as a memento of our friendship. Oh, btw, Sasuke is not around." Note: He's never around during my pregnancy and he's not going to be around in the next decade or so. We also found out he doesn't even recognised his daughter nor aware of her existence.

So, Karin is going to be the one giving the umbilical cord when Sarada get married one day? Can you imagine how Sarada would feel, when everyone else is getting their umbilical cord upon growing up or upon marriage, yet her mom won't give it to her because she gave it to someone else. That's how much value Sarada have in front of her parents.

A friendship memento can be anything, but definitely not umbilical cord.

The manga tried hard to emphasis that connection/bond transcend biological relationship. But there's an elephant in the room: Sakura and Sasuke don't care about their daughter.

We were shown caring parents through Kushina and Minato in this franchise. You dont see it with NH/SS.

I'd question the sanity of a husband who don't want to see his wife in over a decade. Let alone aware that he has a daughter. Let alone support his family financially.

I'd question the sanity of a wife who let such kind of relationship to carry on and make the daughter to be the victim of the situation.

This isnt tough love. This isnt bond.

This is outright a sad couple who can't accept the truth that they dont belong with each other. And the repetitive theme of "I don't belong here" also applies with Naruto & Hinata. They don't see each other. They don't think of one another, as far as the manga goes.

Sakura's birth story and that whole umblicial Karin drama has always been perplexing to me. Why write it? What was the goal? What was the message?

Out of all the things he could have written, why make the drama be tied to someone (Karin) who doesn't reappear in the epilogue, will never return to play any part in Sarada's life in the Boruto series. It's not like this is some kind of Jiraiya role, where he its foreshadowing that he's coming back to play the mentor. Karin just drops out. So why make the whole Sakura-Sarada-birth drama hinge on a character that's done?

Heck, Sakura might as well have given the umblicial cord to Shino!!

I just wonder if they intended to reveal that Sarada was adopted, and that she found out the truth that Sakura wasn't her mother, but she still loved her anyway. It would make so much more sense. Karin still got Sasuke, Sakura still crushes on her unrequited love, Sasuke gets to resurrect his clan without actually being there. 

And as for Sakura, it really diminishes her in the manga, making her look like the mopey Hinata role still chasing after someone who doesn't notice her, thus not threatening the actual Hinata who has been elevated to heroine status through her out-of-left-field relationship with Naruto. Making Sarada be adopted really fulfills the cycle of hatred they have for Sakura by robbing her of her last ability: natural childbirth/motherhood.

I wonder if they originally wrote an adoption story, with Naruto swooping in to be the hero and explain how it's not who you love but who you're with (or whatever he said in that weirdo pep talk he gave Sarada), then Sarada can turn around and continue to love both her father and adoptive mother, with Naruto still being the hero.

Except, maybe they didn't realize how popular SS would become after the ending, and that's why they switched it around. When they figured out they could capitalize on the ship, and that there were people who actually liked the story's real HEROINE. It wouldn't be hard either: just change the text. Instead of Karin having the baby it would be Sakura. 

That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Why else involve Sasuke's most overt love interest, who was set up as the parallel to NS in the war, and who is never going to be part of the series again?! For an off-camera friendship with Sakura? Nope. 

Karin was the mother. Sakura was the adoptive mother. They just changed it at the end to make some $$ on SS.

Also, it makes no sense that Naruto, who was raised as an orphan, would be so unwaiveringly committed to the village, the rookies, his teammates, etc. While Sasuke, who was raised as part of a larger and powerful clan, would be the one to shun everything and go into a solitary life, giving up his goal of resurrecting any part of his clan. ( I don't count his relationship with Sakura/Sarada cause it was clearly something he invested nothing in.)

It makes no sense that the orphan wouldn't have to come to grips with those feelings of abandonment, and the family kid wouldn't have to deal with the fact that he alone is letting the rest of his clan (letting the Uchiha die out) down by going it alone. 

Let's refrain from making prejudice folks. lol.

Jokes aside, there's indeed lack of understanding on the subtle messages that Kishi himself put through the manga.

One of the biggest one is of course, Hinata tipping over a rock when Naruto was dying. That's very insulting. The girl he will spend the rest of his life with, wasn't even standing by his side in his critical moment. Not even making appearance or contribution, but shown to be tipping over a rock.

She also wasn't there when Naruto woke up (we got Sakura who did the CPR stuff). Likewise, Sakura wasn't there when Sasuke dying. She wasnt there when Sasuke woke up too.

And of course, let's not forget the bento scene in Boruto Gaiden. The final piece of Kishimoto's writing on this franchise. We were shown that Naruto purposefully left soon to meet Sasuke, despite knowing his son is coming to deliver bento that Hinata made for Naruto.

Now, for everyone who doesn't know Japanese culture, bento (lunchbox) is very important for Japanese Moms. It's a representation of wife's/mother's love to her family. Now, we were shown that Naruto purposefully avoid receiving bento that Hinata made (Boruto said "He knew mom was making it for him, that jerk..." with the strong emphasis on 'knew').

That's probably the highest insult a husband could give his wife. I'd consider it equivalent to raising a middle finger in a subtle way. lol.

And the worst part for NH? The bento was given by Sarada to Naruto. The first thing came to his mind? He recalled about Sakura and Sasuke giving him bento when he was a kid.

There wasn't any thought about Hinata at all coming from Naruto with the bento.

That was really sad for Hinata. Not only her husband left and didn't receive the bento that she made (as a symbol of her love to him). But when he received it (from Sarada), he thought of someone else.

That, my friends, how the author subtly tell the audience that Naruto and Hinata do not have a happy marriage. Likewise with Sakura and Sasuke. None of these couples are depicted as happy and content in the canon materials.

OH!!! I remember this. I had no idea that was the subtle/cultural message happening there. I know bentos are important, but I didn't make that connection. You are so right. A wife making a bento would be a big deal to a husband who was actually in love with his wife. He WOULDN'T think of his childhood rival and his lifelong crush.

Honestly, I feel like it could be the counterpoint for Karin holding the umbilical cord for Sarada, instead of Sakura. That was another deeply engrained cultural thing that could be easily overlooked. But it would be only something a mother would have. So it's really  unusual for Karin to have it. In the same way that it would be unusual for Naruto to blow off Hinata's devotion delivered with the bent box.

I agree, this is Kishi saying that none of them are happy. And yeah, the rabid Hinata shippers seem to ignore the fact that she is such a passive player, stumbling in the her moment to shine, and her love is just completely overlooked by Naruto. It's such an unsatisfying ending, for all of them.