95 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

i cant agree with u
but i think
Sasuke will learn "FUS RO DAH" another hidden tecqnique of the uchiha clan against naruto

You don't think Sasuke becomes good just because his brother says so is not bad writing, but having Itachi have a genjutsu that puts Kabuto in an endless mental loop is? Huh, go figure. I think it makes sense seeing how Itachi was the greatest genjustsu artist in the world. So as much as you hate the fact that Itachi did what he did, at least it was within in his perimeters. It's not like he used a technique well outside what is established about the character like him all of sudden have say Flying Thunder God Technique or perhaps something else like...Madara gaining the Rinnegan. Just throwing those two out there.

Well then I propose a challenge, good sir. I'd say put your money where your mouth is, write the Uchiha brothers vs Kabuto fight yourself and see how well you do. Guidelines: 1. It must make sense. 2. Everyone or "most" have to like it.

[Nate River]

I hope you're right. And Trixie too for that matter.

I think for Kishimoto to have Sasuke redeemed now would require a level of oblivousness that I wouldn’t attribute to anyone but the worst fanfic writers. Part 2 was set up for a great clash between Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto ratcheted that up when they crossed last time. Naruto’s primary goal, above all else, has been to save his friend. If Itachi redeems him now, then what was the point of all that? The build up to that fight makes no sense and Naruto’s primary mission is eliminated for a more generic save the world. It would be an awful bit of story telling. I’m critical of Kishimoto’s writing all the time, but even I can’t give him that little credit.

Now, I could see Itachi planting the seed (and I think he is) and that during the great Naru-Sasu clash later on, that Sasuke will think back to this and it will influence him. Depending on the specifics there may be a legitimate argument about who really did the work on redemption, Itachi or Naruto, but the redemption won’t happen now and Naruto will be heavily involved.

I can deal with everything else just fine, but Sasuke is getting to be this real...pain. And it's not what he does that bothers me, it's the fact that he seems to lack conviction. It's like he is not good enough to be the good guy, but he is not bad enough to be the villain. He is not an anti-hero either because he does things regardless if it has benefits to him. He a constant flux between good and bad. So what is he? You could argue he is a vigilante, but even then he doesn't follow certain criteria.

I don’t particularly like the back and forth between the borderline psychotic Sasuke and the “I’m just pissed off” Sasuke. I don’t think it meshes well, but I disagree with almost all of this.

Sasuke the Good: I wouldn’t say he fluctuates between good and bad. I think it’s closer to say between villian and anti-hero. What has Sasuke done that was good in Part 2? I can think of only four things: killed Orochimaru, killed Deidara, killed Danoz, protected teammates. Five, if want to count Itachi.

Those acts might themselves be good. The world is probably better off without those three and protecting your teammates is generally a good as well, but the motivation behind those acts isn’t exactly magnanimous. Sasuke killed Danzo as part of his personal vengeance. Regardless of whether it was justified or not, revenge as a motivator has been consistently portrayed as negative. The result was good (Danzo deserved his fate and lots of people are better off for it) but Sasuke didn’t do that because Danzo was a bad person or because it helped people. He did for revenge. Protecting his teammates is the same. They were useful so he fought for them. When they lost their use he didn’t.

So, he really hasn’t been good for a long time.

Sasuke the Bad: This is the part where I can kind of agree. He has done some villainous things: his attempt on Sakura’s life (thought she tried to kill him first) and his attempt to kill Karin because she became a temporary obstacle. That was supposed to be his jump into villainy and they were bad. Sasuke has also pledged to lay waste to the entire village of Konoha when almost everyone there had no part in the massacre. That’s villainous intent.

However, Kishimoto’s dilemma is in Sasuke’s redemption (which I think is a certainty at this point). There is already a ton of skepticism about it and he has yet to really engage in any villainous behavior that cannot be undone. Even his worst moment, Karin, still lives and lots of people had written off his redemption even before that (including me at the time). If he goes too far down this path then regardless of how his characters react nobody is going to buy it.

The other issue is Naruto himself. The worse behavior Sasuke engages in (and not just talks about) the more the audience itself is going to ask: what on earth does this guy have to do for Naruto to figure out he needs to die? The worse Sasuke deeds become the less accepting people are going to be of a Naruto who still clings to the goal of saving Sasuke. Consequently, Sasuke’s villainous deeds result in him killing people that deserve to die anyway (Danzo), don’t become permanent (Karin), or are committed against faceless fodder the audience has no attachment to (Samurai).

So, yeah, Kishimoto I think wants Sasuke to be a villain (at least so Naruto’s goal of saving/stopping him goes beyond Naruto’s own personal desire to have his friend back regardless of what Sasuke thinks), but doesn’t want to complicate his eventual redemption.

On the other hand, I think of Vegeta who did things far worse than Sasuke in the first two seasons and fans accepted him. However, he fought on the side of good for nearly two and a half seasons (regardless of the reasons why) before his redemption became “official.” Sasuke’s redemption will likely be much quicker (and he won’t spend as much time fighting with the good guys) unless this series is going to on for another five years, so all the crappy things he did will be fresh in the reader’s mind while Vegeta’s were more distant when he was officially redeemed.

That…and Vegeta was never neck deep in pairing wars, which I think has a bigger influence on Sasuke than most people will ever admit.

[James S Cassidy]

Sasuke the Good: I wouldn’t say he fluctuates between good and bad. I think it’s closer to say between villian and anti-hero. What has Sasuke done that was good in Part 2? I can think of only four things: killed Orochimaru, killed Deidara, killed Danoz, protected teammates. Five, if want to count Itachi.

I am going throw up a counter argument here and say that killing Orochimaru, Deidara, and Danzou was not exactly his idea anyway. He wasn't going out of his way to kill them or even was looking to kill them specifically. You could argue that they came to him and tried to kill him with Sasuke defending himself. I even remember Sasuke telling Orochimaru he was going to leave because there was nothing more he could teach him.

If you look at it from a certain perspective, Sasuke was the "good guy" in that sense because they came after him.

Sasuke the Bad: This is the part where I can kind of agree. He has done some villainous things: his attempt on Sakura’s life (thought she tried to kill him first) and his attempt to kill Karin because she became a temporary obstacle. That was supposed to be his jump into villainy and they were bad. Sasuke has also pledged to lay waste to the entire village of Konoha when almost everyone there had no part in the massacre. That’s villainous intent.

Unfortunately, the fans don't want to see him as the villain. Even here many posters claim he is "not the villain" because his past was too tragic, or he didn't do villainous things, or his motives are not so dramatically evil. Even now when I put up the same argument that you have here, they stand by their belief that Sasuke is not villainous. In fact, they think he is still the good guy. I saw him be the villain even before stabbed Karin, but people refuse to see him as such.

Also, compare these two moments. The moment that is now and the moment when he met team 7 again and did that vile laughter about him killing Konoha. Sasuke's tone has certainly changed with Itachi being around him and has once again putting on this "scared little boy" mask...or so as I see it...because he sees Itachi again. He is acting like a little kid demanding answers and if he doesn't get them he throws a tantrum.

This also reflected in the fanbase I see. If Sasuke doesn't get redeemed, some seem to want to throw a tantrum.

On the other hand, I think of Vegeta who did things far worse than Sasuke in the first two seasons and fans accepted him. However, he fought on the side of good for nearly two and a half seasons (regardless of the reasons why) before his redemption became “official.” Sasuke’s redemption will likely be much quicker (and he won’t spend as much time fighting with the good guys) unless this series is going to on for another five years, so all the crappy things he did will be fresh in the reader’s mind while Vegeta’s were more distant when he was officially redeemed.

But Vegeta is different from Sasuke in what he did over the course of the series. He went from villain, to anti-hero, to good guy. Sasuke went from good guy, to anti-hero, to bad guy. Their decisions are in different directions, but Vegeta was always adamant about his beliefs. Sasuke doesn't know what he wants to do and seems to change tone just because a certain person walks into the scene.

Another thing is, fans were not so easy to forgive Vegeta like you said, but are willing to forgive Sasuke at the drop of a hat? I'd say let him be the villain. Let him get his ass kicked around a few times by the hero, then we can talk about redemption. Think about this too, there was never any scenes where Vegeta specially targeted Bulma, like how Sasuke purposely targets Sakura. So Sasuke has done things that could be deemed worse as well. Did Sasuke succeed? If the hero didn't stop him, he would have. Same with Vegeta if Goku wasn't around.

This is my biggest issue with Sasuke's redemption. People want him to be redeemed why? I see three major reasons why they want his redemption.
1. Being they want Naruto to be the hero and fullfill his goals otherwise he is a failure.
2. Because they like Sasuke as a character and don't want to think of him as the bad guy.
3. Because they want SasuSaku to happen.

The whole redemption thing kind of stops him from being that true villain. It stops people from seeing him as a true villain no matter he does.

Why does Sasuke need to be redeemed in the first place? He doesn't seem to want it, so why give him what he doesn't accept? Another problem with Sasuke's redemption is, in hind sight the more you focus on Sasuke's redemption, the less time Naruto develops as a character. Now, someone is going to argue with me about this, but hear me out. Naruto himself always seems to be stuck behind a line because of Sasuke. He doesn't go after love because of him, he doesn't go after his own true goals because of him, and his conviction that he wants to bring him back is keeping him from maturing into a Hokage level status. Whether or not he succeeds is not really a factor as much as people think. It's because there is no closure. With no closure there is no growth.

Now we focus so much on Sasuke and his trials and tribulations that we ignore Naruto's growth all together. Any growth Naruto gets is short lived and it's a bummer. If we focused less on Sasuke's redemption, then not only would we have more look into Naruto's growth, but Sakura would also have growth too. Which is something at least most of us want. Because we (and Kishi) are stuck looking at Sasuke deciding whether he wants to be a true villain or not, Naruto and Sakura's development get grounded to a halt for those moments.

Let's look at an alternate reality for this. What if Kishi focused more on Naruto? Focused more on his relationship with Sakura and his own views. Imagine how things would be if Sakura said to his face "No matter what happens, I am with you." She doesn't necessarily have to say "I love you," but just say to him that no matter what happens everything was going to be okay. We show Sakura picking a side and choosing what she wants, there we have her growth and resolve. Naruto, thinks on this and decides that death is not the real end. He doesn't want death, but life and saving everything. Keep him to his views, but understand that he doesn't need to sacrifice himself for the world to be saved. That there are others who need him just as much and that it weighs more than the goals of saving Sasuke. There are other ways to achieve what is needed. There we have growth for him too.

Sakura thinks more about Naruto and we get more NaruSaku scenes. Naruto gets his growth and shows that he can take charge when need to be. He doesn't give up his goals, but just accepts that his goals have a chance of not succeeding. This puts some of our minds to rest on whether or not Naruto will have a global meltdown because Sasuke dies and whether or not Sakura is only going for Naruto because Sasuke is no longer around.

(Actually, he could still fit this in if Sasuke get less focus after this whole ordeal. If the rest of manga is going to continue with Sasuke's view, then we will never see Naruto grow at all. Nor Sakura. Honestly, there is not much else to tell about Sasuke after this. When Itachi finally gives him the answers, his view should remain constant til the end of the manga.)

I don't want to restrict myself thinking that the only way this story has to end is with Sasuke's redemption and him being alive. I don't want Sasuke to be the revolving factor that determines that the manga has to end this way even though Naruto is the one the manga should be focusing on. I want to keep that open mind. Besides, if we already know how it is going to end as many claim, then everything up to that point is just thought noise and irrelevant.

As a side note, while I am thinking about it:
I think we as posters need to stop the whole "because it is more realistic" argument. I have seen several people use this and I facepalm at it. Not because of the obvious reasons that this is a fictionalized world, but the fact that in the real world bad guys can and sometimes will win. The hero is not always going to get everything he wants or have it happen every way he wants just because he is the hero. In real life, the heroes lose just as much as they save, which in itself makes them heroic. They overcome hardships to continue to believe in better ways. You can say it is more realistic for villains to be certain ways or for something else to be in such a way, but you have apply this to everything if you're going to apply this at all and in real life bad guys can win.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 May 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@On the other hand, I think of Vegeta who did things far worse than Sasuke in the first two seasons and fans accepted him. However, he fought on the side of good for nearly two and a half seasons (regardless of the reasons why) before his redemption became “official.” Sasuke’s redemption will likely be much quicker (and he won’t spend as much time fighting with the good guys) unless this series is going to on for another five years, so all the crappy things he did will be fresh in the reader’s mind while Vegeta’s were more distant when he was officially redeemed.

But Vegeta is different from Sasuke in what he did over the course of the series. He went from villain, to anti-hero, to good guy. Sasuke went from good guy, to anti-hero, to bad guy. Their decisions are in different directions, but Vegeta was always adamant about his beliefs. Sasuke doesn't know what he wants to do and seems to change tone just because a certain person walks into the scene.


Vegeta's victims were ressurrected but sasuke's not (thins inclues danzou, iron coutry samurais)

Edited by dovahkiin, 19 May 2012 - 01:19 AM.

[Strangelove]

You can never compare Vegeta with Sasuke...they have nothing in common.

[Nutt Man 117]

I hope that's not the end of Kabuto. He seemed to be the the perfect character to fight back against the Uchiha capabilities. We were convinced that he was immune to all of the Uchiha's illusions giving them a run for their money which to me I though was awesome cause there was nothing better than seeing at last the Uchiha not so powerful and overrated. But now Izanami gets pulled out of someone's ass and completely turns the tide of the battle to the Uchiha's favour... (groan).

I'll accept that Kabuto may have to release his Edo Tensei in order break Itachi's hold on him, but if Sasuke beats him thereafter then I hope Sasuke dies at the end of the story in spite of him.

[Dragunov]

I hope that's not the end of Kabuto. He seemed to be the the perfect character to fight back against the Uchiha capabilities. We were convinced that he was immune to all of the Uchiha's illusions giving them a run for their money which to me I though was awesome cause there was nothing better than seeing at last the Uchiha not so powerful and overrated. But now Izanami gets pulled out of someone's ass and completely turns the tide of the battle to the Uchiha's favour... (groan).

I'll accept that Kabuto may have to release his Edo Tensei in order break Itachi's hold on him, but if Sasuke beats him thereafter then I hope Sasuke dies at the end of the story in spite of him.

Expect an epic comeback. Its become too predictable.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You can never compare Vegeta with Sasuke...they have nothing in common.

ofc vegeta would kick sasuke's ass in seconds

[Chew]

I agree- I feel that Sasuke's redemption is too...meh. Everything "horrible" that he's done is either all words, or against characters that don't have too much importance. If he HAD killed Sakura or Kakashi when he encountered them in chapters 470-480 ish, THEN his redemption would have been questionable, and it would have been interesting to see what Naruto would've done. Would he still have been hellbent on saving Sasuke, or would he himself be overcome with a temporary bout of revenge and overcome it later? The problem is that Kishi can never really bring himself to kill his precious characters- he couldn't even kill Karin when Sasuke pierced her to get to Danzo. On another note, I'm glad Kakashi or Sakura didn't die (<3)- but it would've been interesting to see it happen, and see what course Sasuke's vengeance took from there.

And Kishi is an Uchiha fanboy- even in the character databook, when talking about Sasuke's appearance, he says he went through numerous drafts in an effort to make Sasuke look "super cool." -lesigh-

Oh well, can't wait to see what happens in 587- if anything unpredictable happens

[Toasty Warrior]

Hmm... I think 587 will be...

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

the ressurrection of the dead by kabuto in the war broke the feeling of a war .
like kakashi meeting zabuza again , and asuma with team 10 and so on .


sasuke going to the good side it would be a fairy tale.

[kirabook]

While the Uchiha brothers aren't my most favorite characters in the world, Itachi's jutsu was bound to happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izanagi
http://en.wikipedia....anami-no-Mikoto

It didn't really come out of the place where Kishi poops this round, it was a pair.

That said, now that Itachi has Kabuto trapped, I'd at least like an update on what's going on elsewhere and if everyone has made it to Naruto's location. -That is where they were going right? It's been so long since then*

Edited by kirabook, 20 May 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Meh. This Sasuke and Itachi fight is getting to be a bit of a drag.

To be honest, and this is just obviously my opinion, this whole war arc feels like nothing's getting accomplished plot-wise, it's like the Namek arc in the anime adaptation of DBZ all over again. I dunno, it IS weekly, though. I'll probably change my tune if it returns the focus to Naruto, as most in this fandom are likely to do, who knows.

[FoolishYoungling]

Meh. This Sasuke and Itachi fight is getting to be a bit of a drag.

To be honest, and this is just obviously my opinion, this whole war arc feels like nothing's getting accomplished plot-wise, it's like the Namek arc in the anime adaptation of DBZ all over again. I dunno, it IS weekly, though. I'll probably change my tune if it returns the focus to Naruto, as most in this fandom are likely to do, who knows.

Not trying to be a fanboy or anything, but Sakura needs focus too. She is the heroine, and she isn't getting any focus. 1-3 page(s) every 20 chapters ain't going to cut it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

well there are three battles happening at same time i doubt if she will appears soon

[FoolishYoungling]

well there are three battles happening at same time i doubt if she will appears soon

4, if you count the pairing battle. I'm kidding, I know that pairings are not what this anime is about.

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 20 May 2012 - 10:25 PM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

ITACHI. IS. BEAST --Click here to view--

Itachi is just so awesome and strong! I loved how he finally beat Kabuto ! Though I have to agree with some of you. As much as I love him, Itachi really is portrayed as a Mary Sue and OP. I think if Itachi lost at least once, his character would be more realistic but he wins almost every battle .

I thought it was funny that Sasuke just spent the entire time standing there . I still have high hopes for Sasuke's redemption and return to Konoha(Maybe).

My prediction for the next chapter is that Sasuke will finally demand answers and Itachi will give it to him. I don't think he'll technically show Sasuke the light(That's Naruto's job) but he will make Sasuke doubt what he's doing. That I'm sure of.

[Strangelove]

ofc vegeta would kick sasuke's ass in seconds

Yes. Not only that Vegie had a sense of dark humor, Sasuke is dry.

[Dragunov]

Yes. Not only that Vegie had a sense of dark humor, Sasuke is dry.

Sasuke and Vegeta? Do we even have to go over that?

[Nate River]

I am going throw up a counter argument here and say that killing Orochimaru, Deidara, and Danzou was not exactly his idea anyway. He wasn't going out of his way to kill them or even was looking to kill them specifically. You could argue that they came to him and tried to kill him with Sasuke defending himself. I even remember Sasuke telling Orochimaru he was going to leave because there was nothing more he could teach him.

If you look at it from a certain perspective, Sasuke was the "good guy" in that sense because they came after him.

He went after Danzou. That was not self-defense. And a claim of self-defense means you are justified in harming the person attacking you. That you have it doesn't say a thing about whether you are a good person.

Him killing them was a good thing because they were rotten people, but he wasn't doing it because it was the right thing to do. He's a "good guy" in those scenarios by virtue of not being the "bad guy." He's only good in the sense that they were worse people or in the wrong themselves when they tried to kill him.

Killing them really isn't oscillating to good.

Sasuke and Vegeta? Do we even have to go over that?

You're miss the point. I'm not comparing them. I am comparing fandom's willingness to accept their redemption.

But Vegeta is different from Sasuke in what he did over the course of the series. He went from villain, to anti-hero, to good guy. Sasuke went from good guy, to anti-hero, to bad guy. Their decisions are in different directions, but Vegeta was always adamant about his beliefs. Sasuke doesn't know what he wants to do and seems to change tone just because a certain person walks into the scene.

What difference does the order of their evolution make as to whether an audience should accept their redemption? I think time is a big reason why they won't.

Sasuke has been adamant as well. Almost from the moment of his introduction he has sought vengeance for his clan (and himself). That's still true. The only difference between now and then is the target, which changed when was provided new information about what they were slaughtered. I agree about changing tone (going from borderline psychotic to simply pissed off), but his objective has not changed and I don't think this fight will ultimately change it either. It can't without screwing up the story line.

Specifically, if Itachi is able to redeem Sasuke or move him from his current objective then what right does Naruto have to continue his pursuit if Sasuke does not want to return? There is always the SOP regarding rogue ninja, but the series abandoned that as a significant reason long time ago. The reasons people are pursuing him are because of what he has done or what he seeks to do. They are specific to Sasuke the person not simply as his status as a rogue ninja.

This is my biggest issue with Sasuke's redemption. People want him to be redeemed why? I see three major reasons why they want his redemption.
1. Being they want Naruto to be the hero and fullfill his goals otherwise he is a failure.
2. Because they like Sasuke as a character and don't want to think of him as the bad guy.
3. Because they want SasuSaku to happen.

None of those are true for me. I don't necessarily want him redeemed, but I have difficulty seeing how Kishimoto is going to complete the square when it comes to all his major themes if Sasuke isn't redeemed. How does the current generation surpass the previous if Sasuke turns into Orochimaru Part II and isn't saved? If Naruto cannot save Sasuke from his hatred how is the cycle hate ended? Of course, given that there are so few people who would seek vengeance upon his death Naruto could take the ultra-cynical approach and just off him and Team Taka (do it!) and that cycle would be end. Whose is left that would to seek vengeance on Sasuke's behalf? I suppose you could try to make a case for Sakura (not that I would buy it), but she already tried to kill him. However, that's not a very heroic thing to do.

I don't necessarily want to see his redemption, but I think the story he is telling is coming to the point that it almost demands it unless he decides to shift gears and change the themes or at least make Sasuke an exception to them.

Your reason 1 is primarily why I'm confident that Sasuke will live. In addition, to succeeding where Jiriaya failed with Orochimaru, I think if Naruto only redeems him after he's delivered a fatal blow he'd call that a failure. It's my opinion that a Sasuke who only figures it out on the way out the door is still a Sasuke who died as a result if his hatred. The only difference between that and Orochimaru is Sasuke knows he was a dumbass when he dies. How is that saving him from it?

In the abstract, I have no issue with Naruto failing miserably. I just don't think it fits the story being told right now.

Why does Sasuke need to be redeemed in the first place? He doesn't seem to want it, so why give him what he doesn't accept? Another problem with Sasuke's redemption is, in hind sight the more you focus on Sasuke's redemption, the less time Naruto develops as a character. Now, someone is going to argue with me about this, but hear me out. Naruto himself always seems to be stuck behind a line because of Sasuke. He doesn't go after love because of him, he doesn't go after his own true goals because of him, and his conviction that he wants to bring him back is keeping him from maturing into a Hokage level status. Whether or not he succeeds is not really a factor as much as people think. It's because there is no closure. With no closure there is no growth.

Now we focus so much on Sasuke and his trials and tribulations that we ignore Naruto's growth all together. Any growth Naruto gets is short lived and it's a bummer. If we focused less on Sasuke's redemption, then not only would we have more look into Naruto's growth, but Sakura would also have growth too. Which is something at least most of us want. Because we (and Kishi) are stuck looking at Sasuke deciding whether he wants to be a true villain or not, Naruto and Sakura's development get grounded to a halt for those moments.

Let's look at an alternate reality for this. What if Kishi focused more on Naruto? Focused more on his relationship with Sakura and his own views. Imagine how things would be if Sakura said to his face "No matter what happens, I am with you." She doesn't necessarily have to say "I love you," but just say to him that no matter what happens everything was going to be okay. We show Sakura picking a side and choosing what she wants, there we have her growth and resolve. Naruto, thinks on this and decides that death is not the real end. He doesn't want death, but life and saving everything. Keep him to his views, but understand that he doesn't need to sacrifice himself for the world to be saved. That there are others who need him just as much and that it weighs more than the goals of saving Sasuke. There are other ways to achieve what is needed. There we have growth for him too.

He needs to be redeemed because that is where all the major themes running throughout this story point. What's the point of following that with Nagato (as much as I hate that scene) only to see Kishimoto abandon it at Sasuke, unless Kishimoto decides he wants to change the themes and lessons he is trying to convey. It would be a way to convey something like "you can't save everyone" or "you can't help those who don't want it themselves," but that doesn't appear to be the goal.

I agree it actually hinders his development as a Hokage, but Kishimoto has already given the audience his answer: Naruto's statement about how can he be Hokage if he can't even save his friend. I was disappointed that two of the more obvious retorts to that were not brought up by anyone at the time (favoritism: would he do this for random ninja #56784 (to which Naruto would probably say yes, but which practically speaking is probably no); the amount of time and resources being dedicated to the search of one ninja). Sasuke turning into a world wide (and village wide) problem works out great because it creates a justification that would render both of those uncomfortable questions moot while at the same time taking Naruto's desire from a mission of selfishness to necessary protection.

It seems you major complaint is that other people have been neglected at the expense of his redemption not the redemption itself. My response is one: they don't have to be mutually exclusive. I don't see why Sasuke being redeemed requires thing you site be ignored or at least not developed to your satisfaction. Kishimoto may be writing it that way, but I don't think Sasuke being redeemed prohibits a lot of what you talk about. He hasn't done both, but it doesn't mean he couldn't have been done.

And the time you spend focusing on the development of NS growth doesn't do much to sway my belief that the objection to his redemption has strong roots in pairing wars.

As for me, I like Sasuke at this point, but I don't necessarily want him redeemed. I'm more interested in the tragedy surrounding his character (which is the part I think makes him interesting) than on whether he is redeemed. I simply think that it's necessary if Kishimoto plans on following through with his themes.

Vegeta's victims were ressurrected but sasuke's not (thins inclues danzou, iron coutry samurais)

Yeah.

All Sasuke needs for the audience to accept him is for him to find some magical balls that cheapen death so bad that a character can die four times in the course of a series. Three if you want to ignore GT.

I did speculate about Edo Tensei Chiyo and if that would work.

You'll never convince me that the Samurai were a turning point for any fan. To the extent it's used it seems more like people trying to justify pre-existing beliefs rather than the defining moment when they decided Sasuke was scum.