51 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

Do it in the end of manga.

The one who should confess is naruto and he should do that in the end of manga.

Naruto love sakura is what make NS exist and sakura love naruto back is what make NS canon.

 

Beautiful! So true!!!!

[sushi.]

Answer's easy, it should not have been brushed off. Naruto and Sakura had issues to work out, and this confession is just one of the complex themes Kishi delved into, just to cut it in the end.

[Narufan85]

I don't know about that. I hate Sasuke and Hinata just about as much anyone could, but removing them from the story wouldn't fix the one major problem holding back this story.

 

Kishimoto is just a terrible writer.

Completely eliminating Sasuke would have really influenced the story. But can anyone say that if Hinata was cut from the manga the story would be at all different?

 

 

Beautiful! So true!!!!

 

Yup. And to think, it could have been tied together by referencing one brief moment from way back in chapter 3. Oh the missed opportunities.

[catsi563]

nope wouldnt have affected the story in the slightest. Hinatas removal as ive stated elsewhere wouldnt even cause the story to blink.

 

she has really 4 major moments in the story but any or all of them could be done to greater or the same emotional effect by another character.

 

the character is so one dimensional that if you remove the singular motivation she has, she becomes completely irrelevant to the story.

 

As a contrast I could remove Naruto or Sasuke from Sakura and she would still remain relevant to the story with her own plot points.

[rocci]

Answer's easy, it should not have been brushed off. Naruto and Sakura had issues to work out, and this confession is just one of the complex themes Kishi delved into, just to cut it in the end.

This!!!

One of the reason why there are no naruto and sakura interaction after that, because it will lead to NS romantic resolution.

And yes, kishi should solve it.
He instead leaved it brush it off.

[Tiller]

What really pisses me off about the confession now, that instead of it being a stepping stone in the developing relationship between Sakura and Naruto, it's now used as evidence as Sakura's "infidelity".

 

Because for SS and therefor for canon, it was nothing more then at time where Sakura at best was doubting her feelings towards her God (Sasuke), and at worst was outright lying and trying to manipulate her supposed "friend". In the end it does nothing but make Sakura look like a complete scum bag.

 

Which is the worst aspect of it all. It brought nothing to the story. At best it made Sakura look like a manipulative kitten, and at worst it made it look like she betrayed her canon reason for existing, and that is as being a worshiper of the Uchiha.

 

Just listening to how SS remember it makes it so much worse. "Remember when Sakura almost betrayed Sasuke for the Orange Bamboo?" "Oh no! That was just Sakura trying to trick the Orange Bamboo so it didn't get hurt, because no one could match the greatness of Sasuke Uchiha our Lord and Savior!"

 

Which has caused those on the Anti-Sakura club to have even more of a reason to complain about how her character was developed. The confession went NO WHERE in the canon story. It meant NOTING canon wise. All it did was ruin Sakura further, and continues to push the idea that Naruto's goal ultimately is to make sure Sakura and Sasuke bang at least once. Cause you know only a "terrible woman" would betray a man who tried killing her multiple times, abandoned her and their child, and still refuses to be around them on a daily basis.

Edited by Tiller, 30 September 2015 - 06:44 PM.

[TerrorKing]

What really pisses me off about the confession now, that instead of it being a stepping stone in the developing relationship between Sakura and Naruto, it's now used as evidence as Sakura's "infidelity".

 

Because for SS and therefor for canon, it was nothing more then at time where Sakura at best was doubting her feelings towards her God (Sasuke), and at worst was outright lying and trying to manipulate her supposed "friend". In the end it does nothing but make Sakura look like a complete scum bag.

 

Which is the worst aspect of it all. It brought nothing to the story. At best it made Sakura look like a manipulative kitten, and at worst it made it look like she betrayed her canon reason for existing, and that is as being a worshiper of the Uchiha.

 

Just listening to how SS remember it makes it so much worse. "Remember when Sakura almost betrayed Sasuke for the Orange Bamboo?" "Oh no! That was just Sakura trying to trick the Orange Bamboo so it didn't get hurt, because no one could match the greatness of Sasuke Uchiha our Lord and Savior!"

 

Which has caused those on the Anti-Sakura club to have even more of a reason to complain about how her character was developed. The confession went NO WHERE in the canon story. It meant NOTING canon wise. All it did was ruin Sakura further, and continues to push the idea that Naruto's goal ultimately is to make sure Sakura and Sasuke bang at least once. Cause you know only a "terrible woman" would betray a man who tried killing her multiple times, abandoned her and their child, and still refuses to be around them on a daily basis.

You said it man. But does Sakura get an apology for how Naruto apparently faked his love for her in order to one up Sasuke? After all, according to The Last, that is a canon fact. I'm guessing no, because this is Sakura kittening Haruno. If she does anything good, it gets ignored or downplayed. If she does anything bad, it gets focused on and analysed to hell and back. If someone does something nice for her and she doesn't immediately fall to her knees in utmost praise, she's called a heartless kitten. If someone does something bad to her...eh...who cares...

 

Perhaps I'm just damaged from all the Sakura hate I've witnessed over the years, but seriously, it could sometimes get downright psychotic to the point where it was no longer about being critical of Sakura as a character and more about downright bashing. I guess that, once again, it's just the NH fandom I have a problem with because:

 

Sakura having a rivalry with Ino over Sasuke = Bad

Sakura manipulating Naruto's feelings = Bad

Naruto having a rivalry with Sasuke over Sakura = Okay

Naruto manipulating Sakura's feelings = Okay

 

So yeah, double standars. Double standards everywhere! But then again, what else is new? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by TerrorKing, 30 September 2015 - 08:16 PM.

[Phantom_999]

He should have not put it at all.
 
Its not necessarily bad from a writing ambiguity perspective but when you had an army of hinatards waiting to jump at your throats...
You avoid ambiguities.
 
He should have not put Hinata's stupid and contrived confession to begin with as well. UGH 
 
Edit: He should have focused Sakura and Hinata's stories about becoming stronger and better persons instead of looping the story endlessly about their love stories and Sasuke

True that Actually. He stated that the confession was to make Sakura look more like a heroine. In what way would that work I ask. How is confessing your feelings to someone and manipulating them to stop chasing someone because you feel you've hurt them too much even though they have their own reasons for going after that person even count as a heroic deed? How is being torn up about a person who never opened their selves to you or even had a proper conversation with you, who never talks to you about their problems, come off as heroic? How does it even come across as love? It was one of his worst mess ups of all time.  Making all his teenage female characters seem like emotionally needy for romance and that Love is all that matters to them even if they've never had a proper conversation or bonding moment with their crush.   

Edited by Phantom_999, 01 October 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[Tiller]

You said it man. But does Sakura get an apology for how Naruto apparently faked his love for her in order to one up Sasuke? After all, according to The Last, that is a canon fact. I'm guessing no, because this is Sakura kittening Haruno. If she does anything good, it gets ignored or downplayed. If she does anything bad, it gets focused on and analysed to hell and back. If someone does something nice for her and she doesn't immediately fall to her knees in utmost praise, she's called a heartless kitten. If someone does something bad to her...eh...who cares...

 

Perhaps I'm just damaged from all the Sakura hate I've witnessed over the years, but seriously, it could sometimes get downright psychotic to the point where it was no longer about being critical of Sakura as a character and more about downright bashing. I guess that, once again, it's just the NH fandom I have a problem with because:

 

Sakura having a rivalry with Ino over Sasuke = Bad

Sakura manipulating Naruto's feelings = Bad

Naruto having a rivalry with Sasuke over Sakura = Okay

Naruto manipulating Sakura's feelings = Okay

 

So yeah, double standars. Double standards everywhere! But then again, what else is new? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I hated it until the very end when Kishimoto wrote it out in black and white that everything the anti-Sakura crowd said was basically right. She used Naruto, Naruto used her, in the end Naruto and Sakura's relationship only existed because they both had feelings about Sasuke.

 

That's canon. EVERYTHING about this story was altered completely because of Sasuke. Why did Naruto have feelings for Sakura? Because she was Sasuke's property. Why did Sakura try to manipulate Naruto? Because she needed to be reunited with the man who controlled her life. What was Sakura's "reward"? Sasuke's kid that she is allowed to raise into the Sasuke cult. She doesn't get a soul mate, Sasuke just leaves. What about Naruto? Well he gets to be king, therefor finally getting one thing over Sasuke, well also staying in touch with his "friend".

 

Throughout most of this series I defended Naruto, Sakura, NS, the ideals and themes expressed in this book originally (The importance of free will over "destiny", the right of every person no matter how high or low their social standing, the need to fight in order to defend what you value in your heart) and shockingly now even Kishimoto's talent. As that story went on though, and after the Pein Arc I started to care less and less. By the ending I became a proud member of most of the anti character/pairing fanclubs other at narutoforums.com, and make it known that Kishimoto in the end really is just that bad of a creator.

 

If the Naruto series teaches the creative community anything in the end, I think what it shows is just how important a good editor can be. A good editor can make even a terrible creator's work look good with a steady hand.

[TerrorKing]

 

I hated it until the very end when Kishimoto wrote it out in black and white that everything the anti-Sakura crowd said was basically right. She used Naruto, Naruto used her, in the end Naruto and Sakura's relationship only existed because they both had feelings about Sasuke.

 

That's canon. EVERYTHING about this story was altered completely because of Sasuke. Why did Naruto have feelings for Sakura? Because she was Sasuke's property. Why did Sakura try to manipulate Naruto? Because she needed to be reunited with the man who controlled her life. What was Sakura's "reward"? Sasuke's kid that she is allowed to raise into the Sasuke cult. She doesn't get a soul mate, Sasuke just leaves. What about Naruto? Well he gets to be king, therefor finally getting one thing over Sasuke, well also staying in touch with his "friend".

 

Throughout most of this series I defended Naruto, Sakura, NS, the ideals and themes expressed in this book originally (The importance of free will over "destiny", the right of every person no matter how high or low their social standing, the need to fight in order to defend what you value in your heart) and shockingly now even Kishimoto's talent. As that story went on though, and after the Pein Arc I started to care less and less. By the ending I became a proud member of most of the anti character/pairing fanclubs other at narutoforums.com, and make it known that Kishimoto in the end really is just that bad of a creator.

 

If the Naruto series teaches the creative community anything in the end, I think what it shows is just how important a good editor can be. A good editor can make even a terrible creator's work look good with a steady hand.

You're right. I kept giving Kishi the benefit of the doubt right up until the end...Now I just feel silly.

 

People will go and on about how it's no big deal that NS didn't become canon because getting with Sakura was never one of Naruto's goals, but they'll then call you a heartless bastard for not supporting Naruto's happiness because he now has a family. Well excuse me, but I don't recall the place where Naruto outright stated his desire to have a wife and two kids. Like I stated earlier. Double standards everywhere!  

 

You're absolutely right about Naruto and Sakura. Naruto got to be hokage and that's about it. He didn't really do anything in order to reform the shinobi system or bring justice to the Uchiha clan, but hey at least he gets to be the figurehead of a flawed and oppressive system. As for Sakura, well she finally got her status symbol as the Uchiha wife. Nevermind the fact that their relationship is practically nonexistent since Sasuke is never kittening home, but that doesn't matter because they have a kid together. It's so superficial. 

 

You're also right about Yahagi. I wish he'd never left. At least then there would a slight chance that the ending wouldn't have been such a massive disappointment. 

Edited by TerrorKing, 30 September 2015 - 09:15 PM.

[starlitestarbrite]

 

I hated it until the very end when Kishimoto wrote it out in black and white that everything the anti-Sakura crowd said was basically right. She used Naruto, Naruto used her, in the end Naruto and Sakura's relationship only existed because they both had feelings about Sasuke.

 

That's canon. EVERYTHING about this story was altered completely because of Sasuke. Why did Naruto have feelings for Sakura? Because she was Sasuke's property. Why did Sakura try to manipulate Naruto? Because she needed to be reunited with the man who controlled her life. What was Sakura's "reward"? Sasuke's kid that she is allowed to raise into the Sasuke cult. She doesn't get a soul mate, Sasuke just leaves. What about Naruto? Well he gets to be king, therefor finally getting one thing over Sasuke, well also staying in touch with his "friend".

 

Throughout most of this series I defended Naruto, Sakura, NS, the ideals and themes expressed in this book originally (The importance of free will over "destiny", the right of every person no matter how high or low their social standing, the need to fight in order to defend what you value in your heart) and shockingly now even Kishimoto's talent. As that story went on though, and after the Pein Arc I started to care less and less. By the ending I became a proud member of most of the anti character/pairing fanclubs other at narutoforums.com, and make it known that Kishimoto in the end really is just that bad of a creator.

 

If the Naruto series teaches the creative community anything in the end, I think what it shows is just how important a good editor can be. A good editor can make even a terrible creator's work look good with a steady hand.

 

i'm starting to believe all kishi did was show up for work, drew the characters', and shounen jump, and studio pierrot did ALL the work because kishi was in "i give up, they're yours now" mode. i think he stopped caring after the pain arc, and let the sakura haters', sasuke fanatics', and hinata fanboys finish off the series.the only true editor, and obviously good storyteller was yahagi...the only narusaku shipper aboard it seems like
 

Edited by starlitestarbrite, 01 October 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I think the bigger disappointment is the fandom itself. Yeah, writer's can mess-up and screw up, but at the same time, they can fix it. They can redraw it. They can rework it, but it is the fandom that are the ones that sit here and eat that stuff up saying "it's perfect. change nothing" all because of pairing.

Honestly, it's sometimes like the fandom doesn't listen even when given the truth.

Kishimoto: "I didn't plan NaruHina. That was all Studio Perriot's idea. I wasn't big into the idea of pairings."
Fandom: "ZOMG, NH was planneds from teh beginnings. I knew Kishimoto supported us all the way."

Kishimoto: "Hinata works in the shadows and never by anyone's side. She is always the shy one."
Fandom: "Hinata is always by Naruto's side."

Kishimoto: "Sasuke and Sakura are kind of bad and miserable. I am not sure if they would stick together at all."
Fandom: "ZOMG, SS is such a happy couple. Kishimoto said so himself."

Kishimoto: "The only thing I had planned in my head was the Sasuke and Naruto fight . Everything else was just on whim."
Fandom: "See? I told you the pairings were planned since the beginning."

Seriously, do the fans even listen? I have several interviews, official, that says that Kishimoto basically let Studio Perriot run the show and the fandoms think it was all the "pure genius that is Kishimoto. Respect the author."

And believe reality, it's not like a fandom can't fight against a bad ending...look at the Mass Effect 3 debacle or the "I am Legend" movie.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 October 2015 - 02:25 PM.

[Nostradamus]

 

i'm starting to believe all kishi did was show up for work, drew the characters', and shounen jump, and studio pierrot did ALL the work because kishi was in "i give up, they're yours now" mode. i think he stopped caring after the pain arc, and let the sakura haters', sasuke fanatics', and hinata fanboys finish off the series.the only true editor, and obviously good storyteller was yahagi...the only narusaku shipper aboard it seems like
 

That is exactly what happened. He was just the drawing guy and he did as he was told.

[ThroughWithLove]

I think the bigger disappointment is the fandom itself. Yeah, writer's can mess-up and screw up, but at the same time, they can fix it. They can redraw it. They can rework it, but it is the fandom that are the ones that sit here and eat that stuff up saying "it's perfect. change nothing" all because of pairing.

Honestly, it's sometimes like the fandom doesn't listen even when given the truth.

Kishimoto: "I didn't plan NaruHina. That was all Studio Perriot's idea. I wasn't big into the idea of pairings."
Fandom: "ZOMG, NH was planneds from teh beginnings. I knew Kishimoto supported us all the way."

Kishimoto: "Hinata works in the shadows and never by anyone's side. She is always the shy one."
Fandom: "Hinata is always by Naruto's side."

Kishimoto: "Sasuke and Sakura are kind of bad and miserable. I am not sure if they would stick together at all."
Fandom: "ZOMG, SS is such a happy couple. Kishimoto said so himself."

Kishimoto: "The only thing I had planned in my head was the Sasuke and Naruto fight . Everything else was just on whim."
Fandom: "See? I told you the pairings were planned since the beginning."

Seriously, do the fans even listen? I have several interviews, official, that says that Kishimoto basically let Studio Perriot run the show and the fandoms think it was all the "pure genius that is Kishimoto. Respect the author."

And believe reality, it's not like a fandom can't fight against a bad ending...look at the Mass Effect 3 debacle or the "I am Legend" movie.

 

When did Kishi say it was all SP's idea?

[James S Cassidy]

 

When did Kishi say it was all SP's idea?

 

“でも別に二人の恋愛話に僕はあまり思い入れがなくて（笑）、その話を描くつもりはなかったんです。” - Kishimoto

“But I didn’t really have any devotion about the love story of the two-Naruto and Hinata- (lol). I didn’t plan to write this story.” - Kishimoto

Also:

“So the idea of a [NH] love story wasn’t my idea at the start, however Pierrot staff suggested the movie to revolve around it (hence the final product being the way it is).” - Kishimoto

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

She could've actually killed Sasuke afterwards? lol

[Nar123]

She could've actually killed Sasuke afterwards? lol

I don't think Kishi would kill his cash cow like that

[Tiller]

She could've actually killed Sasuke afterwards? lol

Sasuke should have died for this story to make any sense. Instead he's be rewarded.

[RedFaction]

Sasuke should have died for this story to make any sense. Instead he's be rewarded.

Or in prison for the rest of his life. It's really disgusting that a lot of people in other parts of the fandom were actually accepting of Sasuke getting off scot free.

[SlyNinjaKnight]

She could've actually killed Sasuke afterwards? lol

 

 

Sasuke should have died for this story to make any sense. Instead he's be rewarded.

 

 

Or in prison for the rest of his life. It's really disgusting that a lot of people in other parts of the fandom were actually accepting of Sasuke getting off scot free.

 

My head canon is that Sasuke was either banished from the village (and that's why he isn't in the village like at all) or something like Will Turner from Pirates of the Caribbean when Will becomes captain of the Flying Dutchman, he can only come ashore once every ten years. It would certainly make things easier to explain for Sasuke's abandonment of his family since his clan 'means so much to him'.