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#41 James S Cassidy

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:06 AM

Naruto gets a pass because the manga wanted the audience to sympathize with him. People became emotionally invested in him and they wanted to see him succeed. Ditto with Hinata, who in part one could be summed up as the girl who is nice to Naruto and gets the ever-loving crap beat out of her by Neji. Sasuke gets a pass because people saw him as the cool rival character.

 

It's easier to lead people through their heart than by their minds. People already had their impressions of the cast during Part 1, and they stuck to them. People hated Sakura early on and continued to do so, ignoring her growth and leveling up. People thought Hinata was the underdog who would prove herself just like Naruto, so they continue to believe she is OP PLZ NERF despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. People don't want to admit the continued existence of the ninja system undermines Naruto's promises to reform it, instead they focus on the fact he has become Hokage. Doesn't matter that he's become another cog in this system and tells his son to endure the loneliness, he has the funny hat.

Actually, it is not that these characters get a pass, but rather because the pro-enders THINK they get a pass. How can we sympathize with Naruto when after a while he becomes a spoiled brat and a horrible person? Some of us even consider him a scumbag and so does most of the Japanese fanbase, so how does he get a pass? That doesn't sound like he gets a pass. I think people were emotionally wanted to see him succeed, but were disappointed because he really didn't. In what way did Naruto succeed? The only real success was everyone loved him in the end, but he managed that long before the end so....

I don't really think Sasuke gets a pass because "he is the cool rival guy," but rather going back to wanting to see Naruto succeed which meant bringing back Sasuke. So, not pass, but tolerated because they knew the obvious ending was going to happen. "Oh well, if this is what gets the story along, I guess it is okay." The fanbase also wanted alot of SNS chemistry which means they get overlooked because of "brotherly moments."

Hinata.....she never got a pass. At least not in the fanbases besides the pro-enders which mostly reside in America. In Japan, she is downright hated and see as a trash character. She was never popular and at best was seen as annoying.

These characters never got a real pass overall because of the reactions to Naruto the Last around the world. Japan wanted to see Naruto and Sasuke together and instead got Hinata which they despised and didn't care about. They called Naruto a scumbag and hated Hinata for pulling away from Naruto and Sasuke. Kakashi got more of a pass than any of them did because of his popularity which the pro-enders didn't give a kitten about.

No, see, the only character that got a pass from the "pro-ender" side in America was Hinata. They never cared about Naruto as a character or the plot of him because everytime he interacted with Sakura or had a moment between them they cursed out his name and told how bad he was because he didn't pay attention to Hinata. WHen NH became canon then they finally gave him a pass and ONLY him. They didn't care about Sasuke or Sakura and in fact, I would argue that only reason why they rat on Sakura was because NaruSaku was a huge threat to them.

Many fans hated the fact that Neji died....that didn't get a pass and Hinata didn't either. Instead they tried to redirect it to blame Sakura..."Why didn't she heal him?" They couldn't pass Hinata so they tried to make Sakura worse. That is their entire tactic.

If all these characters got as pass except for Sakura, then why do we have anti-enders in the first place? So no, nobody gets a pass because these are not the characters we knew. The only people who pass any of it are pro-enders and it is not because of them caring about the characters, but rather them caring about Hinata. To pro-enders, ONLY Hinata gets a pass and everyone else gets ragged on.


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#42 Nate River

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:13 AM

My issue was less with Sasuke and more with how the rest of the cast treated him. Sasuke was more consistent than others in behaving within his given motivations. Most of the complaints I have seen over the years seems to really be related to his treatment by others rather than anything he did. The one big exception for me was Team Taka. Their formation made no sense given his experience and motivations and weren't used for the reason they were supposedly created. 

 

Sasuke seems more interested in holding himself accountable (his journey of penance) than anyone else did, which just about sums up most of Part 2, especially Naruto's character.



#43 Phantom_999

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:22 AM

Actually, it is not that these characters get a pass, but rather because the pro-enders THINK they get a pass. How can we sympathize with Naruto when after a while he becomes a spoiled brat and a horrible person? Some of us even consider him a scumbag and so does most of the Japanese fanbase, so how does he get a pass? That doesn't sound like he gets a pass. I think people were emotionally wanted to see him succeed, but were disappointed because he really didn't. In what way did Naruto succeed? The only real success was everyone loved him in the end, but he managed that long before the end so....

I don't really think Sasuke gets a pass because "he is the cool rival guy," but rather going back to wanting to see Naruto succeed which meant bringing back Sasuke. So, not pass, but tolerated because they knew the obvious ending was going to happen. "Oh well, if this is what gets the story along, I guess it is okay." The fanbase also wanted alot of SNS chemistry which means they get overlooked because of "brotherly moments."

Hinata.....she never got a pass. At least not in the fanbases besides the pro-enders which mostly reside in America. In Japan, she is downright hated and see as a trash character. She was never popular and at best was seen as annoying.

These characters never got a real pass overall because of the reactions to Naruto the Last around the world. Japan wanted to see Naruto and Sasuke together and instead got Hinata which they despised and didn't care about. They called Naruto a scumbag and hated Hinata for pulling away from Naruto and Sasuke. Kakashi got more of a pass than any of them did because of his popularity which the pro-enders didn't give a kitten about.

No, see, the only character that got a pass from the "pro-ender" side in America was Hinata. They never cared about Naruto as a character or the plot of him because everytime he interacted with Sakura or had a moment between them they cursed out his name and told how bad he was because he didn't pay attention to Hinata. WHen NH became canon then they finally gave him a pass and ONLY him. They didn't care about Sasuke or Sakura and in fact, I would argue that only reason why they rat on Sakura was because NaruSaku was a huge threat to them.

Many fans hated the fact that Neji died....that didn't get a pass and Hinata didn't either. Instead they tried to redirect it to blame Sakura..."Why didn't she heal him?" They couldn't pass Hinata so they tried to make Sakura worse. That is their entire tactic.

If all these characters got as pass except for Sakura, then why do we have anti-enders in the first place? So no, nobody gets a pass because these are not the characters we knew. The only people who pass any of it are pro-enders and it is not because of them caring about the characters, but rather them caring about Hinata. To pro-enders, ONLY Hinata gets a pass and everyone else gets ragged on.

 

 

why doesn't Sakura get a pass? Well you answered it yourself already, Hinata "jerking off" and NaruSaku being a serious threat to NaruHina. Plus again, I like to bring up the special case as to why Sakura is not tolerated as a tsundere but others are much more beloved by fans; Naruto had a heartbreaking backstory that many want to coddle him for, so for Sakura, the default love interest, to hit him, belittle him, and not out right loving him from the start like Hinata, plus is a squealing fan girl for the cool popular bad boy and not for Naruto as fans think he deserves, makes many viewers see her as a horrible person. Other MCs either don't have a tragic back story, or their tragic back story has no visible effect on them in the present story line for fans to think that the resident tsundere is a heartless unsympathetic b---- for making the MC's life even harder. That's just a guess anyway but it makes sense if you think about it.

 

Besides, as you say, in a sense it's not that any other characters get a pass, their deluded fans THINK they get or DESERVE a pass. 


Edited by Phantom_999, 14 December 2017 - 02:24 AM.

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#44 Nate River

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:32 AM

 

 

why doesn't Sakura get a pass? Well you answered it yourself already, Hinata "jerking off" and NaruSaku being a serious threat to NaruHina. Plus again, I like to bring up the special case as to why Sakura is not tolerated as a tsundere but others are much more beloved by fans; Naruto had a heartbreaking backstory that many want to coddle him for, so for Sakura, the default love interest, to hit him, belittle him, and not out right loving him from the start like Hinata, plus is a squealing fan girl for the cool popular bad boy and not for Naruto as fans think he deserves, makes many viewers see her as a horrible person. Other MCs either don't have a tragic back story, or their tragic back story has no visible effect on them in the present story line for fans to think that the resident tsundere is a heartless unsympathetic b---- for making the MC's life even harder. That's just a guess anyway but it makes sense if you think about it.

 

Besides, as you say, in a sense it's not that any other characters get a pass, their deluded fans THINK they get or DESERVE a pass. 

 

State side, the tsundere's most well known example are through some of Takahashi's works and whose Tsundere's starte off pretty extreme. Akane, Kagome. Then there is stuff like Love Hina and Evangelion, and Chi Chi with DBZ. With that being your experience, yeah, I can understand. Sakura is a very mild tsundere, but with that as your back drop, you might be inclined to think here we ago again and have that stick.

 

Also I think Naruto's back story contributes. By the time she is introduced, the audience already knows his backstory and feels for him. Naruto's back story was incredibly effective in generating sympathy and allowing the audience to overlook or get past the fact that he was a brat. Then bench seen solidified that by taking his crush and moviving beyond shallow reasons. So when Sakura is introduced and is mean to him, it's not surprising people would dislike her for it. We know the world from his perspective and not hers and know things about his life that she did not. 



#45 rocci

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:58 AM

Sasuke took over sakura role as the biggest manga heroine in one of their role aka the damsel of distress.

Hence why narusasu is the most romantic because sasuke is also the princess that need to be rescue and not sakura.

@nate river
So sakura is doom to be hate?

Edited by rocci, 14 December 2017 - 10:59 AM.


#46 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:27 PM

She's clearly not doomed. I liked her from first introduction because I understood her role, and also people do plenty of "mean" things without really meaning to.

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#47 Phantom_999

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:48 PM

 

State side, the tsundere's most well known example are through some of Takahashi's works and whose Tsundere's starte off pretty extreme. Akane, Kagome. Then there is stuff like Love Hina and Evangelion, and Chi Chi with DBZ. With that being your experience, yeah, I can understand. Sakura is a very mild tsundere, but with that as your back drop, you might be inclined to think here we ago again and have that stick.

 

Also I think Naruto's back story contributes. By the time she is introduced, the audience already knows his backstory and feels for him. Naruto's back story was incredibly effective in generating sympathy and allowing the audience to overlook or get past the fact that he was a brat. Then bench seen solidified that by taking his crush and moviving beyond shallow reasons. So when Sakura is introduced and is mean to him, it's not surprising people would dislike her for it. We know the world from his perspective and not hers and know things about his life that she did not. 

 

Yeah don't get me wrong, Sakura is not a high end tsundere by any means, as her behaviour is mild compared to others but it is not how much of a tsundere she is, it is the fact that fans see that having any sort of tsundere like behaviour towards Naruto that had a horrible and tragic childhood is unforgivable, even though as you say they ignore the fact that Naruto is still quite the brat and obnoxious so Sakura's initial impression wasn't completely unwarranted. 


Edited by Phantom_999, 16 December 2017 - 03:55 PM.

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#48 Nostradamus

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:57 PM

So Sasuke is a princess? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I agree.


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#49 FireFox

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:29 PM

I second this  :monocle: .

Sasuke-chan.jpg


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#50 rocci

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:58 PM

So Sasuke is a princess? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I agree.

It all will make naruto obsession toward him make sense. Or just make him gay.

I mean the entire part 2 naruto try to save him. So he pretty much a damsel. I never see a hero/protagonist do that. And putting someone in crissis or dangerous situation is the best way to get a spotlight, like Hinata.

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Salad should be like that. Making her sakura uchiha only justify NS.

Edited by rocci, 14 December 2017 - 04:00 PM.


#51 FireFox

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:16 PM

It all will make naruto obsession toward him make sense. Or just make him gay.

I mean the entire part 2 naruto try to save him. So he pretty much a damsel. I never see a hero/protagonist do that. And putting someone in crissis or dangerous situation is the best way to get a spotlight, like Hinata.

@firefox
Salad should be like that. Making her sakura uchiha only justify NS.

Eh..........How so!? Making Salad to look like SK child only made SS lookeven more pathetic then it already was, if they made her look like Sakura even a little bit they could have at least take the pleasure of their kid heaving the features of both's parents but like this it only sh!ts over SS even more which I didn't thought it was possible at that time but boy did they outdone themselves, 

 

Or do you mean that if she looked like Sakura and Burito and the Salad were made a couple it be like a quasi NS!? I think no matter how you spin it NS is totally justified even without this BS.  


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#52 rocci

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:25 PM

BS happen because NS doesn't happen. That's what I mean by justified.
You don't make a son of the hero paired up with black hair version daughter of the heroine without making it's not as NS ver.02

If salad look like your pic, it will justify narusasu. By making hetero version of it.

#53 FireFox

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:05 PM

BS happen because NS doesn't happen. That's what I mean by justified.
You don't make a son of the hero paired up with black hair version daughter of the heroine without making it's not as NS ver.02

If salad look like your pic, it will justify narusasu. By making hetero version of it.

I see but don't you think all of that is kind of trivial!? I mean I see your point but its obvious that just by pushing BS it would look like a hetero NaruSasu and NS mix just by the fact that they pushed Burito to Sasuke and the Salad to Naruto but either way it doesn't matter one bit to me bc NS was justified throughout the whole story and everything got retconed nothing more nothing less.


Edited by FireFox, 14 December 2017 - 05:06 PM.

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#54 Yyubie

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

So Sasuke is a princess? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I agree.

 

I second this  :monocle: .

Sasuke-chan.jpg

LOL .... if Sasuke was female from the very beginning , more than 60% problem in the manga is solve. One of it : Naruto chasing him(her xD) is instantly green light (in my opinion no longer a problem or more like it's good if he is a female) , since Sasuke is female it's romantic love , not a disgusting bromance / gay. And he will make far better heroine than Sakura , just change the gender ... not really need to change anything else. That will instantly turn desert into an ocean.

 

MAYBE this is one of the reason why they make Salad as female because they know that Sasuke should have been female from the very beginning. Whoever make Boruto think that there is a lot of things that went wrong , and they want to fix it throught Boruto.


Edited by Yyubie, 14 December 2017 - 05:41 PM.

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#55 James S Cassidy

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 06:33 PM

why doesn't Sakura get a pass? Well you answered it yourself already, Hinata "jerking off" and NaruSaku being a serious threat to NaruHina. Plus again, I like to bring up the special case as to why Sakura is not tolerated as a tsundere but others are much more beloved by fans; Naruto had a heartbreaking backstory that many want to coddle him for, so for Sakura, the default love interest, to hit him, belittle him, and not out right loving him from the start like Hinata, plus is a squealing fan girl for the cool popular bad boy and not for Naruto as fans think he deserves, makes many viewers see her as a horrible person. Other MCs either don't have a tragic back story, or their tragic back story has no visible effect on them in the present story line for fans to think that the resident tsundere is a heartless unsympathetic b---- for making the MC's life even harder. That's just a guess anyway but it makes sense if you think about it.

 

Besides, as you say, in a sense it's not that any other characters get a pass, their deluded fans THINK they get or DESERVE a pass. 

 

 

State side, the tsundere's most well known example are through some of Takahashi's works and whose Tsundere's starte off pretty extreme. Akane, Kagome. Then there is stuff like Love Hina and Evangelion, and Chi Chi with DBZ. With that being your experience, yeah, I can understand. Sakura is a very mild tsundere, but with that as your back drop, you might be inclined to think here we ago again and have that stick.

 

Also I think Naruto's back story contributes. By the time she is introduced, the audience already knows his backstory and feels for him. Naruto's back story was incredibly effective in generating sympathy and allowing the audience to overlook or get past the fact that he was a brat. Then bench seen solidified that by taking his crush and moviving beyond shallow reasons. So when Sakura is introduced and is mean to him, it's not surprising people would dislike her for it. We know the world from his perspective and not hers and know things about his life that she did not. 

 

You two bring up good points and you are right, but it only leads me to more questions about the fanbase.

I am gonna start with Phantom first:
It just goes to show how shallow this fandom is where they took everything at face value. How many other characters had heartbreaking stories that they despised? Obito has a heartbreaking story too, but many fans seem him in a bad way instead of the same way they see Naruto. What's the difference? If someone has a heartbreaking story why shouldn't we sympathize with them? How would you feel if someone killed the love of your life and that person was your bestfriend? Is that not heartbreaking or does this not count? RulesofNature mentioned that Sasuke gets a pass because people saw him as the cool rival character. Why only based on his cool rival character type and not his tragic heartbreaking backstory of his clan getting murdered, his family getting killed, and his brother is the one doing it? Is that heartbreaking? The fact that RulesofNature specifically said off the top of her head that Naruto's heartbreaking backstory (That we didn't know much about til later) is what gives him a pass, but Sasuke's cool nature and NOT his backstory gives him a pass is pretty evident that on the surface the only backstory people cared about....was Naruto's.

They didn't even care about Hinata's backstory of her father rejecting her because she wasn't strong willed enough to lead her people, but her sister was. They really cared about Neji's backstory and hated when he was killed because honestly which one is more heartbreaking? Neji being an outcast from birth because he is from the "other side" of the family with his father willingly take his own life. Neji lis then seen later saying "Now I understand the meaning behind that" is what made people cry so hard when Neji was killed and why Obito was unforgivable. This is also where many began to hate Hinata more because while Neji had a true horrific heartbreaking backstory...Hinata did not and she completely ignored it. She didn't even try to fix things in Neji's name. She cared more about Naruto and his injuries than she did even Neji. So I think this scene made a lot of fans take a step back and say "Is Hinata really such a great person? I don't think so since we loved Neji to death and he basically died for her and she couldn't even acknowledge his life let alone acknowledge his sacrifice."

Of course, in the beginning Neji was the badguy because he beat Hinata up and I guess this is why for a while he was hated by the pro-enders. "He was the bad guy that beat up poor little Hinata. We hate him." Though I have never seen many fans say this I do believe this is what became of that. So does Neji get a pass because we knew his backstory?

So at the end of the day only Naruto's and maybe Neji's backstory was considered legit and with everyone else it was superficial. Sasuke was only liked because he was cool, not because people sympathized with him. Obito has a tragic backstory, but because he killed people he was seen as a bad guy and people hated gim. How come when Sasuke kills people and attempts to kill Naruto and so many others all of a sudden people are like "Aww poor Sasuke?" It surprises me greatly that two characters be very much alike and both do evil things, but one is loved and forgiven while the other is reviled and rejected. Hinata was only seen as cool because she blindly loved Naruto for no reason and she was shy and pathetic in present time. Noone cared about her backstory as shallow as it was. Neji started out superficial, but soon turned into deeper thought. Sakura is hated across the board because again superficial means: "She was mean to him at first so she is always a kitten." The rest had their brief moments and dropped from existence.

How about Gaara? We didn' get his backstory til much later and he was killing everyone and everything mercilessly at first. Why aren't people still hating him? "Gaara is an kitten. He sucks. I wish he would die. He is such a bastard to everyone." How  much Gaara hate do you see in the fandom? Again, first impressions. We didn't know Gaara's backstory and he first showed up as a huge villain. Now, if we say "Well, everyone later learned about Gaara's backstory and sympathize with him." Why? Why does this all of a sudden excuse all the bloodshed and all the bad things like trying to kill people and so much more? The answer is about as simple as anything....because Gaara is Naruto. He is exactly like Naruto in almost every way just even more cranked up. In fact, Gaara should be more liked than Naruto because his backstory is far more heartbreaking than Naruto's by a large margin. Even Naruto expresses this by showing how overtime he developed bonds with Iruka, kakashi, Sasuke, Sakura, more....(No mention of Hinata by the way) and that he was far more priveldged than Gaara at this point. Gaara had nobody until Naruto decided to make a bond with him. This is also why the Gaara Retrival Arc was so powerful because he felt that nobody could ever understand the hardships that Gaara and himself faced. (Again, Hinata not included)

 

Also, funny how if Sakura is mean to Naruto...she is considered a kitten, but if everyone else is mean to Naruto....nothing. I don't see people saying how Neji is an kitten for treating Naruto like garbage. Because Naruto beat him up? Sasuke was trying to literally kill him throughout the whole manga, but nobody calls him out on that one. "He is misunderstood" is the excuse we are given.

It's even funnier how Hinata gets all the glory for being this "cute and shy fangirl" for Naruto all because she cared about him, but Iruka, Jiriaya, Tsunade, and even Sakura herself on many occasions caring about Naruto get no praise at all. Nothing. I don't hear people talk about Iruka being that surrogate father to Naruto. The only other people that many sympathize with is Naruto's own parents and I think this is a good segway into what I want to remark upon with Nate.

Basically what I am saying is....favoritism has killed this franchise because instead of reading the story and each character as a whole, people picked and chose what they wanted and favored some aspects while ignoring others.

To Nate:
What I find interesting about this is that you mention that because we know Naruto's backstory she is automatically hated due to the bench scene. It's even funnier when the fans selectively ignore all the good scenes in the series. Looking at what Analyzer said about Sakura not being a Tsundere...if that is true, then why is she hated? Sakura was nice to Naruto after she understood him. Many of the villagers became nicer to Naruto after they understood him. Neji and Gaara treated Naruto like kitten, but I don't see people constantly hating on them. I don't see Neji and Gaara being told how bad of people they are.

Now, you might say that over time Neji and Gaara were nice to Naruto, but so was Sakura. She was being nice and supportive of Naruto long before any of these characters were supportive. So why is she still getting hate? People don't mention all the nice things Sakura did for Naruto during the whole entire series.

So why is it only Sakura that gets the "curse of the first impression" while everyone else people have allowed the change and reevalution? How many people hate Kushina because the first thing she did was hit Naurto? "Oh Kushina is an abusive mother."

Again, just looking at first impressions of characters what can you make of all the characters?
Sasuke is a emo.
Naruto is a brat
Sakura is a prissy kitten
Ino is a prissy kitten
Shikamaru is lazy.
Rock Lee is the ultimate motivated.
Tsunade is...kittens!!!!
Jiraiya is a pervert
Iruka is a nagging teacher
Kakashi is a genius teacher
Neji is an kitten
Gaara is an murdering psychopath

So why does everyone else, after learning more about them, get this change of idealogy about their character and move beyond the first impression, but Sakura does not? Sakura is the only character where people refuse to acknowledge anything beyond that so called "first impression." "She is a kitten...she hits people....she is obsessive...and she is a horrible person." It's like me saying "Kushina is a horrible mother and she is a kitten. I am glad she is dead because she left Naruto alone in the world." Would that be justifable based only on the first impressions of her character?

What kind of impressions would Minato and Kushina get if we had a story focused on them growing up, Kushina being a kitten to Minato, and Minato being the hero after a tragic backstory....and so on and so forth. Would they see Kushina as a kitten because she first treated him like crap? Let's throw in another shy character like Hinata into the mix. Would people want Minato to be with her and not Kushina or would the preconceived notion that Minato and Kushina getting together is inevitable and would they ignore all faults right off the bat?

I am truly curious about all of this. I am asking these question because it feels like people haven't asked these to people. It's like such obvious and common sense questions that people are just letting roll off and never giving thought about and it is these kind of questions that prove just what kind of fans people are when it comes to this series.

It even becomes more evident when you have Naruto NOW as an adult and as a father treating his own kids just like some of the adults that treated him like he was a kid and people are okay with this. Does Naruto's tragic heartbreaking backstory excuse all his behavior now? The neglect he has for his kids, the downright "too busy to give attention" like some adults were to him, the favoritism of one other person over his own flesh and blood like how Hinata showed favoritism to Naruto over Neji, and so much more.

Does Sasuke's "cool guy" demeanor give him the excuse to be a bad father that neglects his family and doesn't care about them at all? Is it all of a sudden okay for Sasuke to be bad to his kids because his family was bad to him? Does he get a pass because Sasuke is a tragic character with a heartbreaking story or because he is cool or is it because of something else.

To me, it is not the first impression that is the problem. No, it is the "false impression." This claim that these characters are one thing and not the reality that they are. Naruto is a huge scumbag. He is and no amount of tragic backstory erases that. It should not excuse that behavior. I myself have never let my low points in life become a reason to treat others like crap. Do we forgive a murderer for killing people all because his father raped him as a child? No. We still put them to death or life in prison. We still punish and hold people accountable for their actions despite their backstories. In fact, myself did the opposite of it all. Because people never listened to me, I made it a point to listen to others. Because people never gave me respect I chose to give others respect in return. Whatever I never got, I tried to give to others because I know how it feels to be on that opposite side of the fence.

Naruto should be loving and caring for his kid as his father because HE never had a father growing up and this is a plot device in the story that Naruto is never around for Boruto. That is Boruto's stuggle. Should we sympathize with Boruto and say "Hey, it is okay, he has a heartbreaking story?" I don't see anyone sympathizing with Boruto on anything. They see him more boring and too priveledged to be considered a tragic hero.

Ask these questions to anyone and you can get a sense of feel for who they are.

To me, the most pathetic character in the entire series is Hinata. She had everything to her name. She was born into a prestige family, she was rich, she was praised for being the daughter of the leader, but her father saw weakness in her because she was apprehensive and not becoming of a leader. "Poor poor Hinata. Awww, are you okay?" I like how Hinata gets pitied because her mother and father neglect her, but Boruto doesn't get that pity when his parents don't. Again, funny how people pity Naruto and Hinata, but noone else. Not one other person gets that pity.

Hinata is a selfish, priveledged, pathetic, character and the only reason why she got what she got was because everyone pitied her and this is why she never grew out of her "shy and pathetic weakling phase." Of course, Hinata fan's want it both ways and say that she is a powerful independant woman, but also can't seem to live without Naruto in her life.




 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 15 December 2017 - 01:13 AM.

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#56 Phantom_999

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:58 PM

Yeah I know, bias and double standards of these pro-end fans are incomprehensible. They really are. You could pick apart their reasoning  for any given time and you would still be racking and baking your brain on logic of it. In fact, you could find it more "hilariously fascinating" that they even say those things at all in the first place, rather than why. I know that a lot of fans of anything say stupid things to justify why they like who or what they like and hate what and who they hate. you see it all the time, be it anime, comic books, movies, novels etc. But there are always some sort of exceptions even though, again, people don't want to or can't even see the double standards of what they are saying.

 

For instance, haters of Sakura LOVE to quip on how "mean" she is to Naruto and say she doesn't deserve him, but here is the flip side. Isn't Sasuke verbally abusive to her at the beginning? SO if she's not entitled to Naruto, I don't see why Sasuke is entitled to her. If Hinata liked Naruto from the beginning and thus "deserves him", I don't see why they never considered that Naruto liked Sakura for quite a while too, so doesn't that make him entitled to someone he always liked then? It REALLY IS AN ODD THING


Edited by Phantom_999, 20 December 2017 - 03:04 AM.

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#57 rocci

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:05 PM

I see but don't you think all of that is kind of trivial!? I mean I see your point but its obvious that just by pushing BS it would look like a hetero NaruSasu and NS mix just by the fact that they pushed Burito to Sasuke and the Salad to Naruto but either way it doesn't matter one bit to me bc NS was justified throughout the whole story and everything got retconed nothing more nothing less.

I should not use justify but strengthen the claim that NS should happen, because bs happen kind of like ff8 with squall and rinoa.
I don't think bs is hetero narusasu, not anymore since salad is not burito equal (that's "nail" job). she's the heroine and the one who's similar with the former one. I mean what make salad much more likeable than sakura is that there's no lovesick fan girling sasuke. And she has already combat prowess.

I don't think combat wise salad will learn anything from naruto, since every single naruto jutsu already burito learned. Burito know kg bushin and rasengan, he will learn toad summon from naruto and what left for salad is some will of fire teaching.

@yubei
If sasuke is a female, it will change team seven dynamic. Like Kishi would make sakura like naruto and naruto has no feeling toward her. And the pairing war would be with narusasu and NS.

#58 James S Cassidy

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:43 AM

Yeah I know, bias and double standards of these pro-end fans are incomprehensible. They really are. You could pick apart their reasoning  for any given time and you would still be racking and baking your brain on logic of it. In fact, you could find it more "hilariously fascinating" that they even say those things at all in the first place, rather than why. I know that a lot of fans of anything say stupid things to justify why they like who or what they like and hate what and who they hate. you see it all the time, be it anime, comic books, movies, novels etc. But there are always some sort of exceptions even though again people don't want to or can't even see the double standards of what they are saying.

 

For instance, haters of Sakura LOVE to quip on how "mean" she is to Naruto and say she doesn't deserve him, but here is the flip side. Isn't Sasuke verbally abusive to her at he beginning? SO if she's not entitled to Naruto, I don't see why Sasuke is entitled to her. If Hinata liked Naruto from the beginning and thus "deserves him", I don't see why they never considered that Naruto liked Sakura for quite a while, too so doesn't that make him entitled to some he always liked then. It REALLY IS AN ODD THING

Exactly, this logic is complete utter hookiedooks.

"Sakura can't be with Naruto because she too abusive to Naruto."
So, why does Sasuke get to be with Sakura when he was abusive to her the entire manga?"
"That's different. Sasuke had a hard time expressing his inner love."
(That is what the whole excuse was that either Sasuke didn't know he was in love or that he had a hard time expressing love)

"Hinata loved Naruto since the beginning so she deserves him."
Naruto loved Sakura since the beginning so why didn't he deserve Sakura?
"Naruto didn't and never loved Sakura. Where is the proof that he loved Sakura?"Um
Um, he said it to Sai, he expressed it throughout the manga by asking Sakura on dates, and he even expressed it tons of times to the frogs. Every saw that he loved Sakura.Even the officialy databooke say that he is in love with Sakura.
"Well, that was just a silly crush and not true love."
Where did Naruto say he loved Hinata?
"Oh, he was secretly in love with her since the beginning. He just didn't know it yet."

What is with this excuse of "This person didn't know they were in secretly in love." Okay, so I get that some people might not understand love when it is obvious, but this usually happens between friends or close best friends when they feel happy and excited to be with each other. People can see that their connection is stronger than with anyone else...maybe even a girl/boy they could be dating right now. How does this apply to Naruto and Hinata when Naruto NEVER thought about Hinata like ever? He never expressed a happiness around her that he didn't express with anyone. He did so with Sakura. Even in Gaiden when talking about her he had that iconic smile that we know and love. A smile he never showed when with Hinata. Same with Sasuke and Sakura, when did Sasuke ever express that he felt a weird connection with Sakura? He spent more time expressing his connection with Naruto than anyone else. Sakura never even came into his mind unless she stood right in front of him.

HOW IS IT LOVE WHEN THESE GUYS DO NOT THINK OF THEIR SUPPOSED "LOVE INTEREST" UNLESS THEY ARE STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM? That is Not love. I know what love is. Everyone knows what love is. I am tired of this excuse that Naruto and Sasuke had this "super secret, unknown to them, decoder ring, legend of the hidden temple, ouiji board, horoscope, mythical, supernatural, morse code, love" that they had no idea about until someone told them that they did. Since when does love have to be told to you for you to be IN love? How many stories where people told someone that they are going to marry, love, and be with someone that they have no connection with where the main character says "I don't love them" and everyone thinks "Man, she totally loves that guy?" Hell, in Romeo and Juliet  they killed eachother rather than being told who they loved and what to do. Imagine if Naruto and Sakura did that.

This excuse needs to stop. Just admit it is a retcon. At least do that, but no they don't want to. They want to continue to believe that Kishimoto is some secret genius that pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and "Oh ho ho, surprise." I am sorry, he is not a genius and this was never planned. You wouldn't have needed to make Naruto the Last if this was all "planned." This is a dude who, while writing the manga, said "I don't know how to defeat Madara. I made him too powerful."
 

 

I should not use justify but strengthen the claim that NS should happen, because bs happen kind of like ff8 with squall and rinoa.
 

 

Oh please don't ruin FF8 for me. While I commend FF8 for that kind of tragic love story I really hope Naruto doesn't do that because that is just insulting. Especially when the characters actually did love each other and were split by war thinking the other one was dead or moved on.

I mean, if they tried to do that then are they admitting that Naruto and Sakura did love eachother now and it just didn't work out? Can't they make up their minds?
FIrst it was Naruto loved Sakura, but Sakura never loved him.
then it is Naruto never loved Sakura at all
and now they want to say that Naruto and Sakura did love each other but it just never worked out?

 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 15 December 2017 - 06:56 PM.

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#59 DrK

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:56 AM

Sakura was actually extremely nice to Naruto. I think it's an anime viewer thing. She is not mean to Naruto after like chapter 5 or so. She did things like offer to feed Naruto when they were in a public place where anyone can get the wrong idea about them. How is that not nice?



#60 rocci

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:03 AM

Sakura was actually extremely nice to Naruto. I think it's an anime viewer thing. She is not mean to Naruto after like chapter 5 or so. She did things like offer to feed Naruto when they were in a public place where anyone can get the wrong idea about them. How is that not nice?

She's fangirling sasuke and doesn't like naruto back. (Comically) hit him and basically become useless kitten.

@james
I know, I just make comparison. If they make salad female sasuke or make her a male character then it will make their decision to forsake NS make sense. I will surprise when bs become canon they will said that bs is NS ver.02





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