54175 replies to this topic

[RulesofNature]

kitten.

 

Chapter 1: Iruka sees himself in Naruto and tries to protect him. This is one of the first moments in Naruto's life where someone actually acknowledges him and his loneliness, creating a bond between the two characters and potentially saving Naruto from going down a dark path after the Kyuubi revelation.

 

Chapter 700: Naruto yells at his son for doing the same things he himself used to do, and tells Bratuto to embrace his loneliness.

[DrK]

It does amuse me how even though the stuff with the pairings was bad enough on its own to destroy the story, there are all these other elements that also worked out terribly to the point that the entire message of the story is hypocritical. Nothing was done well, and it satisfies no one. And that's kind of funny.

Edited by DrK, 07 October 2018 - 05:40 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Yeah, like I said it has become a black comedy truth be told. and to quote Nostradamus, the series is parodying itself.

Edited by Phantom_999, 07 October 2018 - 06:35 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Huh? This was from the comment section:

 

"Okay, as something of a Naruto apologist, I've been talking about this a bit in Woolie's playthrough, so basically copy-pasting my reply to someone who brought this up there; Naruto was never actually about these hard work themes people remember it being.

 

The very first episode establishes Naruto is special, and that pays off (properly) in the Wave arc. Naruto won his preliminary fight by sheer luck, and he won his fight versus Neji by using the Kyuubi's chakra. The only dudes in Naruto for whom the importance of hard work, and effort trumping talent, were core parts of their characters, were Might Guy (who got PRETTY DAMN FAR, to be honest) and Rock Lee, who's most memorable scene is of him getting kittening destroyed by someone who just happens to have better powers (not long after getting KOed by the Sound genin, another bad matchup for him). Naruto is about the importance of positive social interaction (aka the power of friendship), loneliness and not letting your kitten life make you a bad person, and people who think otherwise are remembering things wrong. Hard work was only ever as important in Naruto as it is in almost all shonen series (you need to work hard to get stronger and learn new techniques, but you better hope your special or your kittened).

 

Adding a bit more detail, the emotional core of the Wave Arc was about ninja not having to be emotionless killers, and Naruto starting to get his head around his importance of friends schtick, which would conveniently resonate deeply with many later villains. The Chunin Exam is a bit harder to psychoanalyze, as it doesn't have such convenient philosophizing to wrap it up, but it again focuses on people who have let their kitten childhoods define them (Gaara, Negi, to a lesser extent in this arc Sasuke) with Orochimaru serving as an example of what they could become, or something?"

 

Also:

 

"Holy crap...This video just made me realize something. Naruto's central message wasn't that people can overcome talent with hard work, its that personal talent and skill are meaningless compared to the power of solid networking. Seriously. The only reason why Naruto became Hokage in the end, despite being a talent-less idiot, is because his parents (and by extension himself) knew the right people. A virtual deluge of gods, super ninja, politicians and tailed beasts lined up to prop him up or train him because he or his family 'had an in' with them at one point or the other. They couldn't even be considered allies (since their job is less to support Naruto and more to single-handedly pull him up) and are instead the direct source of all and any success or power that Naruto ever had. Heck, the only reason he turned god-mode in the end is because he manged to sway Kurama to his side and create a connection by improving their relationship over time. When they say that Asura got strong because of people around him while Indra was strong in his own right, I'm guessing this is what they meant. The fact that NONE of this was achieved by Naruto himself IS the point. They are seriously saying that KNOWING the right people is more important than being a capable person.

 

...This...This disappoints me. I'm disappointed in Naruto now."

 

This too:

 

"The problems  kicked into high gear when they went to the exams immediately after the waves arc. They put underdeveloped characters in a situation that they had no business being in yet. The team is dysfunctional except for the rare moments that they do work together. Sakura is dead weight that only knows book smarts, Sasuke while capable needs to work on his ego, and Naruto needs to work on his basics and fundamentals instead of being bailed out by luck or the fox. If I was kakashi I wouldn't even bring up the chunin exams and proceed to whip them into shape, heck I would have sent them back to the academy during the bell test. They get constant passes for all of their bad habits and don't learn anything. Heck If I wrote Naruto I would have had them fail brutally in the forest of death and have them come to terms with their shortcomings and improve together as a team. Naruto and Sasuke could have grown to be close friends and eventually like brothers, Sakura could actually talk to Sasuke and slowly build something up, and Sakura could slowly develop respect for Naruto. When the chunin exams come again in the next six months or year they end up doing pretty good to show their growth. But nope they're rushed through and get all these power ups and become gods in the end and in Sakura's case wasted potential."

 

I assume this was talking about neji's past:

 

"According to some very early supplemental materials that were neeever referenced in the main series, around the start of the series the Cloud village (the dudes who broke the treaty) are actually the strongest village, whereas Jesus-kun's village is in third place at best. Also, the Cloud village was until recently allied against the Leaf and the weakest village with the second strongest village and the closest competition for the position of 3rd strongest village. (Though back at the time of that war, Jesus-kun's village was the strongest of them)

My point is basically that Cloud probably wouldn't have made that move if they didn't know they could get away from it, but the show itself never makes an effort to communicate that fact."

 

Thoughts

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 October 2018 - 09:00 AM.

[DrK]

I'm trying to envision Team 7 failing in the Forest of Death and Sasuke, rather than being infuriated by his incompetent teammates having stymied his progress yet again and immediately going to Orochimaru, instead choosing to "slowly build something up" with Sakura.

 

But every YouTube comment can be correct. The story is so full of holes that you can literally come at it from any angle and you're right. No matter what you say was being done poorly you are right, because all of it was.

[jak123]

Kek, I actually had someone tell me Sakura and Naruto weren't developed at all. They also said that Sasuke and Sakura's relationship is good and the only reason he doesn't come back to the village is because of the "guilt" of what he did to the village. Except its pretty clear he neglects his family if the "guilt" keeps him away from them.

Edited by jak123, 07 October 2018 - 05:17 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Is THAT why Sakura Spends more time with Naruto than Sasuke, pre chapter 699 and 700?  Guilt  keeps Sasuke away from the village? Is THAT WHY he reports to Naruto and just leaves without visiting his daughter and the daughter's mother?  
 
Seriously do these people even  UNDERSTAND the meaning of parental neglect, and have they truly experienced it? These are really the escapist type of fans either way, honestly
 
 

Huh? This was from the comment section:
 
"Okay, as something of a Naruto apologist, I've been talking about this a bit in Woolie's playthrough, so basically copy-pasting my reply to someone who brought this up there; Naruto was never actually about these hard work themes people remember it being.
 
The very first episode establishes Naruto is special, and that pays off (properly) in the Wave arc. Naruto won his preliminary fight by sheer luck, and he won his fight versus Neji by using the Kyuubi's chakra. The only dudes in Naruto for whom the importance of hard work, and effort trumping talent, were core parts of their characters, were Might Guy (who got PRETTY DAMN FAR, to be honest) and Rock Lee, who's most memorable scene is of him getting kittening destroyed by someone who just happens to have better powers (not long after getting KOed by the Sound genin, another bad matchup for him). Naruto is about the importance of positive social interaction (aka the power of friendship), loneliness and not letting your kitten life make you a bad person, and people who think otherwise are remembering things wrong. Hard work was only ever as important in Naruto as it is in almost all shonen series (you need to work hard to get stronger and learn new techniques, but you better hope your special or your kittened).
 
Adding a bit more detail, the emotional core of the Wave Arc was about ninja not having to be emotionless killers, and Naruto starting to get his head around his importance of friends schtick, which would conveniently resonate deeply with many later villains. The Chunin Exam is a bit harder to psychoanalyze, as it doesn't have such convenient philosophizing to wrap it up, but it again focuses on people who have let their kitten childhoods define them (Gaara, Negi, to a lesser extent in this arc Sasuke) with Orochimaru serving as an example of what they could become, or something?"
 
Also:
 
 
"Holy crap...This video just made me realize something. Naruto's central message wasn't that people can overcome talent with hard work, its that personal talent and skill are meaningless compared to the power of solid networking. Seriously. The only reason why Naruto became Hokage in the end, despite being a talent-less idiot, is because his parents (and by extension himself) knew the right people. A virtual deluge of gods, super ninja, politicians and tailed beasts lined up to prop him up or train him because he or his family 'had an in' with them at one point or the other. They couldn't even be considered allies (since their job is less to support Naruto and more to single-handedly pull him up) and are instead the direct source of all and any success or power that Naruto ever had. Heck, the only reason he turned god-mode in the end is because he manged to sway Kurama to his side and create a connection by improving their relationship over time. When they say that Asura got strong because of people around him while Indra was strong in his own right, I'm guessing this is what they meant. The fact that NONE of this was achieved by Naruto himself IS the point. They are seriously saying that KNOWING the right people is more important than being a capable person.
 
...This...This disappoints me. I'm disappointed in Naruto now."
 
This too:
 
"The problems  kicked into high gear when they went to the exams immediately after the waves arc. They put underdeveloped characters in a situation that they had no business being in yet. The team is dysfunctional except for the rare moments that they do work together. Sakura is dead weight that only knows book smarts, Sasuke while capable needs to work on his ego, and Naruto needs to work on his basics and fundamentals instead of being bailed out by luck or the fox. If I was kakashi I wouldn't even bring up the chunin exams and proceed to whip them into shape, heck I would have sent them back to the academy during the bell test. They get constant passes for all of their bad habits and don't learn anything. Heck If I wrote Naruto I would have had them fail brutally in the forest of death and have them come to terms with their shortcomings and improve together as a team. Naruto and Sasuke could have grown to be close friends and eventually like brothers, Sakura could actually talk to Sasuke and slowly build something up, and Sakura could slowly develop respect for Naruto. When the chunin exams come again in the next six months or year they end up doing pretty good to show their growth. But nope they're rushed through and get all these power ups and become gods in the end and in Sakura's case wasted potential."
 
 
I assume this was talking about neji's past:
 
 
"According to some very early supplemental materials that were neeever referenced in the main series, around the start of the series the Cloud village (the dudes who broke the treaty) are actually the strongest village, whereas Jesus-kun's village is in third place at best. Also, the Cloud village was until recently allied against the Leaf and the weakest village with the second strongest village and the closest competition for the position of 3rd strongest village. (Though back at the time of that war, Jesus-kun's village was the strongest of them)
My point is basically that Cloud probably wouldn't have made that move if they didn't know they could get away from it, but the show itself never makes an effort to communicate that fact."
 
Thoughts

My thoughts? These comments only prove what I've been saying all along. Naruto's themes and morals mean NOTHING.
 
Looking at the first comment's "psychoanalysis" on the themes just proves either way the messages were never there or ended up not even being bothered to be addressed. have you seen ANY problem of the ninja system and what it does to people being fixed or even addressed? NOPE Nardo is just sitting on his @$$ all day continuing the cycle and then drowning the stress away with sake drinks.
 
Second comment has a point and ultimately what I feel is the main problem of protagoinsts being  blunt, un-thoughtful simpletons with the goal of being some sort of grand political figure. Being capable of beating up enemies means nothing if you want to be a leader of any kind i.e. Naruto and Black Clover. having characters progress by being stronger but not improving their intelligence, social or political skills to actually be prepared for the position is not sending the right message to kids
 
And the rest? Well I don't see what they are getting but again those are just writing problems that people neglect or don't bother thinking about.
 
Ultimately this just proves a comment I've stated earlier. the writing is meant to sound deep and philisophical but when the chips are down Kishimoto couldn't measure up and address what he wanted to write because he was too busy playing yes man to the company and not drawing what he wanted. And eventually he even gave up on the core premise of the series of a boy born with an unusual and tragic circumstance trying to win the approval of all who shunned him to some sort of jesus figure destined to make world peace and he didn't EVEN ACHIEVE THAT. These are the reasons I hated the series so, NaruSaku was just the last straw because that was the only reason I bothered even tolerating with the series until the end. I thought that if at least Naruto married the girl he was always in love with, and who in turn was starting to warm up to him, understand him and was being progressively sweeter to him and and giving constant emotional support, then the ending wouldn't be so bad, and I didn't even get that. So I said EFF this KITTEN, I've wasted at least ten years of my life on this and I did not even get a satisfactory ending. this garbage was nothing but a disappointment. 
 
P.S. I threw away all my collected tankobon of the series into the recycling bin, and I felt sorry for for my recycling bin

Edited by Phantom_999, 12 December 2018 - 01:00 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Is THAT why Sakura Spends more time with Naruto than Sasuke, pre chapter 699 and 700?  Guilt  keeps Sasuke away from the village? Is THAT WHY he reports to Naruto and just leaves without visiting his daughter and the daughter's mother?
 
Seriously do these people even  UNDERSTAND the meaning of prental neglect, have they truly experienced it? These are really the escapist type of fans either way, honestly
 
 

My thoughts? These comments only prove what I've been saying all along Naruto's themes and morals mean NOTHING.

 

Looking at the first comment's "psychoanalysis" on the themes just proves either way the messages were never there or ended up not even being bothered to be addressed. have you seen ANY problem of the ninja system and what it does to people being fixed or even addressed? NOPE Nardo is just sitting on his @$$ all day continuing the cycle and then drowning the stress away with sake drinks.

 

Second comment has a point and ultimately what I feel is the main problem of protagonists being  blunt, un-thoughtful simpletons with the goal of being some sort of grand political figure. Being capable of beating up enemies means nothing if you want to be a leader of any kind i.e. Naruto and Black Clover. having characters progress by being stronger but not improving their intelligence, social or political skills to actually be prepared for the position is not sending the right message to kids.

 

And the rest? Well I don't see what they are getting but again those are just writing problems that people neglect or don't bother thinking about.

 

Ultimately this just proves a comment I've stated earlier. the writing is meant to sound deep and philisophical but when the chips are down Kishimoto couldn't measure up and address what he wanted to write because he was too busy playing yes man to the company and not drawing what he wanted. And eventually he even gave up on the core premise of the series of a boy born with an unusual and tragic circumstance trying to win the approval of all who shunned him to some sort of jesus figure destined to make world peace and he didn't EVEN ACHIEVE THAT. These are the reasons I hated the series so, NaruSaku was just the last straw because that was the only reason I bothered even tolerating with the series until the end. I thought that if at least Naruto married the Girl he was always in love with,a dn who in turn was staring to warm up to him, understand him and was showing more tenderness and emotional support than anyone else in his life, then the ending wouldn't be so bad, and I didn't even get that. So I said EFF this KITTEN, I've wasted at least ten years of my life on this and I did not even get a satisfactory ending. this garbage was nothing but a disappointment 

They think guilt is what kept Sasuke away from his family? Ok by this point I have not watched much of Boruto, but I did watch up until Sasuke reconciled with his family. Guilt is not an emotion I would used for feelings about his family most of the time; indifference is a better word. 

 

Anyways, let just point this out for comparison. After the gaiden Sasuke had one dinner with his family then went back on the road the next day; that's for his family. While after he notices Bolt is a lot like Naruto, he decides to stick around for a month to train him, and then after the chunin exam he mainly remains in the village afterwards because he has to train his new student; that's for Boruto/Naruto. Who does he care more about his family or his new student?

 

Edit for the bottom half:

 

​From what I gather from what these people are saying is people misunderstood the morals of Naruto as hard-work when it was really social networking.

 

Black Clover at least makes it clear what matters at the end of the days is results very early on. So, it is OK if he is an idiot as long as he can get results better then anyone else.

 

Beyond that more or less agree with you.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 October 2018 - 09:24 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

It does amuse me how even though the stuff with the pairings was bad enough on its own to destroy the story, there are all these other elements that also worked out terribly to the point that the entire message of the story is hypocritical. Nothing was done well, and it satisfies no one. And that's kind of funny.

 

 

Is THAT why Sakura Spends more time with Naruto than Sasuke, pre chapter 699 and 700?  Guilt  keeps Sasuke away from the village? Is THAT WHY he reports to Naruto and just leaves without visiting his daughter and the daughter's mother?
 
Seriously do these people even  UNDERSTAND the meaning of prental neglect, have they truly experienced it? These are really the escapist type of fans either way, honestly
 
 

My thoughts? These comments only prove what I've been saying all along. Naruto's themes and morals mean NOTHING.

 

Looking at the first comment's "psychoanalysis" on the themes just proves either way the messages were never there or ended up not even being bothered to be addressed. have you seen ANY problem of the ninja system and what it does to people being fixed or even addressed? NOPE Nardo is just sitting on his @$$ all day continuing the cycle and then drowning the stress away with sake drinks.

 

Second comment has a point and ultimately what I feel is the main problem of protagoinsts being  blunt, un-thoughtful simpletons with the goal of being some sort of grand political figure. Being capable of beating up enemies means nothing if you want to be a leader of any kind i.e. Naruto and Black Clover. having characters progress by being stronger but not improving their intelligence, social or political skills to actually be prepared for the position is not sending the right message to kids

 

And the rest? Well I don't see what they are getting but again those are just writing problems that people neglect or don't bother thinking about.

 

Ultimately this just proves a comment I've stated earlier. the writing is meant to sound deep and philisophical but when the chips are down Kishimoto couldn't measure up and address what he wanted to write because he was too busy playing yes man to the company and not drawing what he wanted. And eventually he even gave up on the core premise of the series of a boy born with an unusual and tragic circumstance trying to win the approval of all who shunned him to some sort of jesus figure destined to make world peace and he didn't EVEN ACHIEVE THAT. These are the reasons I hated the series so, NaruSaku was just the last straw because that was the only reason I bothered even tolerating with the series until the end. I thought that if at least Naruto married the Girl he was always in love with, and who in turn was starting to warm up to him, understand him and was being sweeter to him and and giving constant emotional support, then the ending wouldn't be so bad, and I didn't even get that. So I said EFF this KITTEN, I've wasted at least ten years of my life on this and I did not even get a satisfactory ending. this garbage was nothing but a disappointment 

Exactly, the pairings are just one SMALL issue among a myriad of issues throughout the whole story. The ending simply brings those gaping holes and hypocrisy to light since, as the comments said, the issues actually start creeping up as early as the Bell Test (their poor teamwork and such being rewarded) and then the Wave Arc (Kurama's chakra being a convenient crutch), but such things could be forgiven if they were built up on, but they never were.

[Phantom_999]

They think guilt is what kept Sasuke away from his family? Ok by this point I have not watched much of Boruto, but I did watch up until Sasuke reconciled with his family. Guilt is not an emotion I would used for feelings about his family most of the time; indifference is a better word. 
 
Anyways, let just point this out for comparison. After the gaiden Sasuke had one dinner with his family then went back on the road the next day; that's for his family. While after he notices Bolt is a lot like Naruto, he decides to stick around for a month to train him, and then after the chunin exam he mainly remains in the village afterwards because he has to train his new student; that's for Boruto/Naruto. Who does he care more about his family or his new student?
 
Edit for the bottom half:
 
​From what I gather from what these people are saying is people misunderstood the morals of Naruto as hard-work when it was really social networking.
 
Black Clover at least makes it clear what matters at the end of the days is results very early on. So, it is OK if he is an idiot as long as he can get results better then anyone else.
 
Beyond that more or less agree with you.

 
oh yeah no doubt, results are what matter at the end of the day, and I agree with that message. It is simplistic yet realistic, and not try to be DEEP and philosophical with nothing backing up the message like Naruto. That is fine, but again I'm just wondering how Asta will handle problems that don't involve defeating enemies or just punching someone out. Because you know being Wizard king involves more than just fighting, it involves politics and and playing psycho-analytical chess sometimes so to speak. That's what I'm getting at but none the less I do like the whole you must have merit and achieve results message

Edited by Phantom_999, 09 October 2018 - 02:15 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Interesting video and true on a lot of things pity he couldn't get into the later half where the series turned to kitten.

[LuckyChi7]

 

Wow you beat me to the punch lol 

 

the video was very well in depth!

[jak123]

That was interesting. Has anyone done a video analysis of NaruSaku that's in depth? Kinda like Dr K's thread.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

"Because I'm the vessel for the Nine-Tailed Fox, and I have been since I was a baby. I only found out about it myself last year, thanks to Mizuki. He was trickin' me into taking a scroll from old man Third's collection for some nefarious reasons, and he told me that's why everyone hated me... because they saw ME as the FOX, not as ME." His fists tightening, Naruto looked to the ground, feeling anger and some shame as well. "I, I had a lot to deal with when I learned that, even thinking that the only reason Iruka-sensei held me back was because he hated me, because the Fox killed his parents... and that hatred passed onto me. The reason I'm bringing this up is 'cause you told me about Sasuke's Curse Mark, and since you trusted me with that, I want to trust you with something as big as this. Of course, old man Third made it a kinda decree to not tell anyone, but I don't give a damn about that now. It's not like it matters anymore... so that could be why you hate me, 'cause the parents passed that onto their kids through their actions. It's what's made me wanna become Hokage... to be able to show everyone I'm not a monster. But even as hard as I try, I feel like I haven't made a damn bit of progress in that department. Especially because of how I feel like that I can't do anything right... I can't even keep my promises fully..."

Something from my fanfic. It's something I feel is poignant for the early parts where you can tell The Demon Within is different in its canon compared to the anime and manga, and how it sets up what I would love to do for everyone in terms of their growth, like with Naruto here coming out in a big way to tell Sakura his being a Jinchuriki because she trusted him with something so big, plus the fact even when she said what she said about "hating" him that he trusted her no matter what and believed in her no matter what.

 

I feel the one thing I worry about is making the same mistakes made in canon with the fic, so I am working on it at a REAL snail's pace because I fear what people will say and think and such, but also that I worry I will end up making a hot mess, even if I'm not alone on this endeavor.

 

It's just I love Naruto for what it was before kitten got bad in the Shippuden era, and we get to see the hypocrisy shown in the series throughout, but there's still some aspects I feel are legit, even if they didn't get to shine as much, like Naruto, in spite of being a Jinchuriki, being an underdog, even before he could "better" control Kurama's chakra, and how I want that balance of him being that, but also being able to really shine, showing he's more skilled than people give him credit for and all that. So you can see another reason WHY I am hesitant.

[griff142]

"Because I'm the vessel for the Nine-Tailed Fox, and I have been since I was a baby. I only found out about it myself last year, thanks to Mizuki. He was trickin' me into taking a scroll from old man Third's collection for some nefarious reasons, and he told me that's why everyone hated me... because they saw ME as the FOX, not as ME." His fists tightening, Naruto looked to the ground, feeling anger and some shame as well. "I, I had a lot to deal with when I learned that, even thinking that the only reason Iruka-sensei held me back was because he hated me, because the Fox killed his parents... and that hatred passed onto me. The reason I'm bringing this up is 'cause you told me about Sasuke's Curse Mark, and since you trusted me with that, I want to trust you with something as big as this. Of course, old man Third made it a kinda decree to not tell anyone, but I don't give a damn about that now. It's not like it matters anymore... so that could be why you hate me, 'cause the parents passed that onto their kids through their actions. It's what's made me wanna become Hokage... to be able to show everyone I'm not a monster. But even as hard as I try, I feel like I haven't made a damn bit of progress in that department. Especially because of how I feel like that I can't do anything right... I can't even keep my promises fully..."
Something from my fanfic. It's something I feel is poignant for the early parts where you can tell The Demon Within is different in its canon compared to the anime and manga, and how it sets up what I would love to do for everyone in terms of their growth, like with Naruto here coming out in a big way to tell Sakura his being a Jinchuriki because she trusted him with something so big, plus the fact even when she said what she said about "hating" him that he trusted her no matter what and believed in her no matter what.
 
I feel the one thing I worry about is making the same mistakes made in canon with the fic, so I am working on it at a REAL snail's pace because I fear what people will say and think and such, but also that I worry I will end up making a hot mess, even if I'm not alone on this endeavor.
 
It's just I love Naruto for what it was before kitten got bad in the Shippuden era, and we get to see the hypocrisy shown in the series throughout, but there's still some aspects I feel are legit, even if they didn't get to shine as much, like Naruto, in spite of being a Jinchuriki, being an underdog, even before he could "better" control Kurama's chakra, and how I want that balance of him being that, but also being able to really shine, showing he's more skilled than people give him credit for and all that. So you can see another reason WHY I am hesitant.

Hopefully you can show Naruto actually earn his rewards and fame unlike Kishi. That video Kagomaru shared with us really opened my eyes on the hypocrisy in this series. Makes me rethink Naruto as a whole but I still did enjoy the series before it got kittened up.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Hopefully you can show Naruto actually earn his rewards and fame unlike Kishi. That video Kagomaru shared with us really opened my eyes on the hypocrisy in this series. Makes me rethink Naruto as a whole but I still did enjoy the series before it got kittened up.

 

I hope I can too, Griff. And yeah, I know how you feel. I still love parts of the series, but I wanna also make sure I don't make the same mistakes Kishimoto made or what Studio Pierrot did to make things much worse.

[catsi563]

My only issue with the video is that it only really becomes reality based on the ending. IF the series had ended differently the hypocricy wouldnt be there. But the way it ended landed everyone squarely in Hypocrite terrirtory. specially with the Last Movie smearing everyone with the same brush

[ThroughWithLove]

Easy ways to fix Naruto's hypocrisy:

 

#1. DON'T make him the 4th Hokage's son. A popular idea at the time we were all speculating, but a terrible idea in hindsight. If Naruto is gonna rise to the top through hard work, no notions about his lineage should ever come into the picture. The 4th could've given him the kyuubi as a means of saving a newly orphaned baby who was on the verge of dying as a result of getting caught in the crossfire during the kyuubi's attack. Not only would this solution fix Naruto's hypocrisy, but it would lend credence to why the village hated him and why no ninja has ever stopped to say "Hey, aren't you the 4th Hokage's son?" In a fixed version of the story, Naruto's parents are nobodies who died during the kyuubi's attack.

 

2. Give a better answer for why he has huge chakra reserves. None of this stuff about Uzumakis just having lots of chakra. Instead, Naruto naturally grew such big reserves over time as a result of having to suppress the kyuubi every day. Through his hard work, he became strong. Simple concept.

 

3. DON'T give him Sage of Six Paths Mode. His one and only powerup should have been sage mode. Make him win fights through clever use of ninjutsu (which should always be possible thanks to the unlimited number of uses shadowclones should provide) and his sheer unpredictability as a knuckle head ninja.

 

4. None of this crap about only loving Sakura due to his rivalry with Sasuke.

[Derock]

Easy ways to fix Naruto's hypocrisy:

 

#1. DON'T make him the 4th Hokage's son. A popular idea at the time we were all speculating, but a terrible idea in hindsight. If Naruto is gonna rise to the top through hard work, no notions about his lineage should ever come into the picture. The 4th could've given him the kyuubi as a means of saving a newly orphaned baby who was on the verge of dying as a result of getting caught in the crossfire during the kyuubi's attack. Not only would this solution fix Naruto's hypocrisy, but it would lend credence to why the village hated him and why no ninja has ever stopped to say "Hey, aren't you the 4th Hokage's son?" In a fixed version of the story, Naruto's parents are nobodies who died during the kyuubi's attack.

 

2. Give a better answer for why he has huge chakra reserves. None of this stuff about Uzumakis just having lots of chakra. Instead, Naruto naturally grew such big reserves over time as a result of having to suppress the kyuubi every day. Through his hard work, he became strong. Simple concept.

 

3. DON'T give him Sage of Six Paths Mode. His one and only powerup should have been sage mode. Make him win fights through clever use of ninjutsu (which should always be possible thanks to the unlimited number of uses shadowclones should provide) and his sheer unpredictability as a knuckle head ninja.

 

4. None of this crap about only loving Sakura due to his rivalry with Sasuke.

 

3 and 4 I agree. 1 and 2 will not work because that will make Naruto very, very bland as a main character to audiences. For #1, pulling that will still have the audiences questioning about Naruto's lineage. Having a leader taking a random baby to seal a demon inside that said baby without the parents' consent, regardless whether they are dead or alive, is a terrible idea to process.

 

As for #2, I just left it alone. Obviously that was Masashi and Yahagi's fault for not explaining more about the Uzumakis while going on with "All My Sasuke" before the other editors went full force with it.

[DrK]

Naruto is a piece of kitten because of SP, not because his dad was Minato. There would have been nothing wrong with his dad being Minato if Hinata had been thrown down a bottomless pit.