Legend054

You ever notice that when Naruto makes an appearance in games like Jump Force or promotions they never use the Boruto's Dad version? They always use the original Naruto that was there since the Pein Arc. Personality and all. Why? Because people are not stupid and know that the Naruto you see in Boruto is NOT the real Naruto. Like you all said, that is Nardo and the anime companies know this. The anime websites know this. That's why they never put Nardo in anything.

And yet, they willingly use older Goku, Ichigo, Luffy, and so many other characters. Why? Because they got better when they got older, not worse. People who are blind to the fact that Nardo is not real (essentially that Naruto is still the same as before) will openly use the younger Naruto and not the older Nardo.

 

Agreed and I like how you call Adult Naruto, "Boruto's Dad Version" . Lol that's very clever. Indeed, the Naruto we know died a long time ago.

 

I can understand why people like IchiRuki. It had enough development throughout the whole manga to be canon, and I wouldn't even have a problem with it, though I ship IchiHime. IchiRuki had solid groundwork, and most of all, it made sense. Unlike other certain ending pairings...

 

Agreed. Kubo also made it clear that if he had to pair Ichigo up with anybody, he said he preferred Orihime because she was more feminine or something along those line,. That was from a fan interview a long time ago, 2013 or 14 I think. I don't know where the video is now, but that pretty much confirmed it.  As an IchiHime fan I was glad when he said that because I definitely saw chemistry between ichihime in terms of romance, although I didn't overlook the possibility of Ichiruki. If i have to describe a platonic relationship, it really was Ichiruki, sorry but that's just my opinion. I know there's a lot of IchiRuki fans here and it seems like a much more popular pairing so I wouldn't have been surprised either way. I gotta say though I didn't expect he would end it with pairings, so I was def surprised about that. I thought he'd rather just leave it an open ending because he wasn't focusing on romance. At least he actually stuck to what he said unlike someone....... 

 

Still, NS >>>>>>>>>>>>> more than any other pairings. 

And then you get even more hyped over the reveal of the Rinnegan - the supposedly "most powerful" doujutsu - especially after seeing what Nagato could do with it when he was able to decimate Konoha single-handed, including some of their best shinobi and even Naruto himself (until THAT happened XP), and yet at the same time, they keep him from being completely OP when he admits to things like he would have lost to Jiraiya if it weren't for Jiraiya being taken by surprise with the Rinnegan and its abilities, or that the things he has demonstrated with it so far were nowhere near as powerful as the original Rikudo Sennin, so it left a lot of room open for learning more about the Rinnegan and its abilities.

Sadly, because of the constant Uchiha wanking, the Rinnegan was reduced to being little more than just a SYMBOL of power rather than actually BEING powerful (that was just left up to the Sharingan, as usual, even making the Rinnegan itself part of the Sharingan essentially with the whole "evolution" into it from an Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan if you combine Senju and Uchiha DNA) when it came to ones like Obito and Madara having / using it themselves; Obito not introducing anything new with it - just using a watered down version of Nagato's Six Paths (that didn't even have any of the individual abilities of the Rinnegan like Nagato's did, IIRC), and Madara merely dropping a couple meteors and using a "perfected Susanoo" (which was little more than just a full-bodied one rather than half, but otherwise operated the same way), and not seeming to even use most of the abilities that were introduced by Nagato, but otherwise not doing anything new or unique with it. In the end, it felt like the ONLY purpose the Rinnegan served was purely for the Rinne Tensei - a convenient way to be able to bring people back to life.

i sure do. i was an akatsuki leader fanboy when he was just a silhouette/hologram. that spiky hair and mysterious eyes x3

 

Same, I thought he was Naruto's dad (Minato) when he was just a silohouette because of the spiky hair. I wasn't surprised when it turned out different though. Pain is the most badass Naruto villain ever and was the most OP character at that time until Madara and Obito came.

On the first part, how so? Because nothing of the dynamic really changes at all in the 400s to the end of the manga.

 

You are correct, Naruto -does- have a crush on Sakura in chapter 3. The error though, is you are attributing that having great respect and admiration must turn into romantic love, when you can certainly have respect and admiration for a friend, and a crush on them. The moments I call a joke -do- demonstrate Naruto's feelings, as long as we understand it is to an extent of a crush, though not always, the 600s is just blatant teasing as confirmed by Naruto. 

 

The Last part makes no sense. Kishimoto says he is bad at writing romance, so that means the Last is a terrible Movie. Kishimoto did not write the last, he edited the script and made certain insertions inspired by his own love life. Kishimoto being bad at writing romance has nothing to do with the Last's quality. That's a logical fallacy. 

 

The rest is just silly, getting into near conspiracy level stuff I won't engage in.

Read chapter 457.

 

You've not proven that his feelings was "crush". Your error is interpreting it as one and making assumptions without proof when his feelings for Sakura are in fact romantic love as he made it in clear in chapter 3 and then it matures in part 2 when he starts her taking her more seriously. I need to keep repeating myself because you can't seem to understand no matter how much I try to make it simple for you. I think you need to go back and reread the manga, but you'd still be confused in which case there's no helping you.

 

Kishi didn't write the Last, he's terrible at writing romance, so the movie is not a credible source.

 

The rest of Naruto are indeed silly including the forced parings (NH & SS) and you're silly.

How do Naruto's feelings change post part one?

 

He actually just tries to regularly kiss her on chapter 3, more feed for you...but he's doing it as Sasuke. Which really, really feeds into the Last's explanation. 

 

The hospital reaction is not an admission of deep love. It is an understanding of how much Sakura cherishes Sasuke (It is also an arguable reversal that Sasuke has at least some feelings for her too). 

 

Yes, Naruto does respect Sakura, her strength, and they have a close bond. But this is platonic. And while they are parts of a good relationship, nothing that is not made into a joke or a weightless tease really happens to make NS more, or Naruto's feelings more than a crush. And if it does, it's taken away as soon as it is presented. 

 

Naruto's love for Sakura matures in part 2 when he starts taking her feelings more seriously as shown in chapter 457.

 

His love cannot be platonic because he's attracted to her as he says in chapter 3. It cannot be crush either because he has great respect and admiration for her and her feelings. If you combine all that it really can't turn into anything else but romantic love as for it to work requires sexual attraction, respect and admiration for the other person which Naruto all has for Sakura shown throughout the manga. Those NS moments you call a "joke" demonstrate Naruto's well-established romantic feelings for her since the very beginning. 

 

While The Last is a canon source material it's not a credible source as Kishimoto admits in the interview he is bad at writing romance, that's blatantly saying The Last is a terrible movie. This explains why it retcons so many things such as Naruto's feelings for Sakura because he doesn't know what he was doing. That's a total disrespect to all the fans thinking he can get away for being a shh!tty writer and for not putting effort into the movie because he "feels embarrassed writing romance". Then he tucks his tail and runs away along with the fan's money in his pocket. After all he has to make a living for dedicating his whole life as a mangaka. He enjoys it, so might as well profit from it regardless of how terrible it is hoping people would like it. He know people are dumb enough to buy it for what it is. So if you liked the movie and it turned out well for you, congrats! 

You are looking for it being "told" to you. I am showing you what the scene means. You are stuck on strict denotation, rather than connotation. You look for literal language over understanding what that language is meaning. Factually, Naruto did have a crush on Sakura canonically, supported in the early chapters and the databook, and this is not dismissed by Sakura's words. Factually, this was not a true romantic love, thus Hinata is his first love. Thus, Factually, you have a quantified differentiation. You want the writing to tell you and not show you. You need to utilize both language -and- context. Do so and this makes sense. 

You are not showing anything. Youve given no evidence that his feelings was 'crush'. . What you are doing are ignoring facts that's been given to you by the manga and the databook and deluding people with your presumptuous assumptions and misinterprerations of Naruto's feelings without any substantial evidence. His feelings are romantic because; in chapter 3 he say that he likes her a lot, he tries to kiss her on the forehead (an example of romantic initiation) and his heartbroken reaction when he realizes how much Sakura likes Sasuke further confirms how strongly he feels about sakura. It's not shallow because he admires how great of a person she is, he is respects her, develops a strong unique bond with her. These are all mutually inclusive which are all needed in order to make a mature romantic love work. That's what you've been failing to see all this time.

 

Oh yeah, Naruto totally never loved Sakura.

 

 

One more just for good measure!

 

Straight out of databook 4!

 

 

 

Translation:

 

 

So to summarize the facts, boys and girls, Naruto canonically loved Sakura and the The Last movie retconned this plain and unambiguous love to being a mere rivalry. This isn't an opinion. This is an unequivocal fact. This isn't me saying this. This is straight from the horse's mouth. And don't take my word for it. Even Analyzer believes this, which is why she insists you ignore canonical material.

 

Class dismissed.

 

 

 

Thank you for posting these!! You're the best

I think most people in general thought Naruto was gonna end up with Sakura. I came across this thread https://myanimelist....=1264507&show=0 where they were discussing who was more likely to end up with Naruto and most of them thought it was Sakura. This was discussed just before Naruto ended. It doesn't mean anything now, but it's interesting what other people thought.

 

Naruto does have feelings from the beginning. That is not being argued. What is being stated is that these feelings do not develop to deep romantic love, not the love you mean, and they fade.

 

They certainly could have, and Sakura's could have toward's Naruto, and we would have had the NS story we wanted. But they didn't. And that's fine, Kishimoto's decision and all that. I don't have any qualms with it.

 

Boruto sucks

Because that's what we are told, really. 

 

I think the rest ignores that these things can happen in a friendship and -not- be more. 

 

The Anime is a poor source (For really any of the pairings), if we are going to include fillers, as it can definitely get things wrong. 

 

nowhere in the manga does it say that. in fact we are told from the very beginning that naruto loves sakura. i don't know how you could be a narusaku fan if you don't see that

You can argue this was done -badly-, or that it's poorly executed. But the intention is decisively as I am stating it is, in that the fact of the world is that there is no romantic NS, and that it was never intended by the author. Thought about, but ultimately he stuck with the plan. (Source: Interviews). 

 

The Foreshadowing/hints/development were always pointing to NH. We can't ignore the sinking of NS. People got distracted that NS was possible due to Sakura being compared to Kushina, which was the Red Herring. -I- got distracted by this, too. 

 

No it was not. You wouldn't be saying this if NH didn't happen. I don't know if I saw anything from the manga that foreshadows NH, other than the confession in Pain arc (which was later brushed off and forgotten by Naruto) and the holding hands in the War arc (but that's just Naruto sharing his chakra, there was nothing romantic about that). NH wasn't really all that deep. If you believe NH make sense then you need to show me some scans of their developments before The Last. NS sure as hell had a lot of developments throughout the manga that could easily be interpreted as romantic. It wasn't even the parallel between Sakura and Kushina that made us think the possibility of NS. It was not a one sided love like NH because Sakura have actually grown feelings for Naruto (romantic love as i see it) and this was shown back when Naruto went four tails against Orochimaru in the 1st half of shippuden, captain yamato noticed it too. And the hug after Naruto beat pain could easily be seen as romantic. The only thing that prevented NS from happening was SS. You can't deny Sakura's undying love for Sasuke, but her confession to Naruto was not a lie. She did in fact also had feelings for Naruto (you could see her blushing during the confession). She only lied when she said she was no longer in love with Sasuke, that's why Naruto denied it. It was also out place as they were dealing with some enemies at that time.

 

Before the Last happened, it was either pointing to NS or SS, not NH. Even you don't read the manga you could tell NS was the most obvious choice and it would've worked even without a movie.

I stumbled across some rather old tumblr posts and I thought I share it here. Maybe some of you are still interested.

The user (Meeko) told her writing-class teacher (he practiced for ~27 years - so we can safely assume he has a lot of experience) about Naruto.
 
Here is his response:
 

Before the Ending

I was really confused about this NH suddenly happening just as all of you, so as a script/literature student for almost a year, and learning all about foreshadowing, character development, and plot treatment, I decided I should talk to someone who knew more than me.

I exposed this case (about NH in the last movie) to my professor, who has been a successful screen writer for 27 years, and his answer was.

“Well, if you want to get two characters together, you have to put them through a lot of situations, and make them feel everything, both sides, so you can explain why the bond is so strong. You can’t put two characters together which development is so poor, not even if the 3, or 4 moments they have had together are really meaningful. That’s only valid if you are writing a short film cause you don’t have a lot of time, but if the story is as long as you’re telling me, then you have no excuse. You have had plenty of time to put those character through more moments, and make a successful development. If you really intent to make this two characters end up together, then you should have give them more screen time”

the I asked him about the other character (Sakura) what was her case and he answered.

“ It means he really didn’t think it through, and he has wasted years of paper and ink developing this relationship for absolutely nothing. Why would you spend so much time developing a relationship if you really didn’t mean it? As a story maker you have to keep in mind that you have to make things clear for the viewers, because if you don’t, things like this happen. It’s like a new trend in marketing to leave a really open plot so the viewers can make their own conclusions, and watch just cause they want to know if they’re right, and they do this without even consulting the writer. That is called comercial script, and it’s ruining the industry, darling. But if in the end you tell me this girl who has been with the main character all the time, and it’s clearly the main female character, is not ending up with him, you’re telling me the writer of this story hasn’t been able to keep his story in line. He practically took a side character out of nowhere, and created a relationship that through the story was not even foreshadow. It’s bad writing”

I explain about Hinata’s love for Naruto. 

“And have the main character acknowledge this love?”

I told him about Pein Arc, and her confession. he asked me to see the pages of the manga, and I showed them to him.

“But then this confession was not mention again. When you write about several characters, you have to give each of them a resolution, or else it will  be unfinished. This girls confessions was sudden, and it was not mention again, so in my experience this is just to help the character get its resolution. If to the main character, or to the main plot this confession is supposed to be a game changer, or something important, then it should have been mention again. I can see the main female is there again, and as you can see, or at least what it seems is that the girl is uncomfortable. Sometimes we have to take side characters to do things like this, so main characters can realise their own truth. And it’s use really often. You see a lot of movies about someone who doesn’t realise he or she is in love with their best friend until the best friend is with someone else. So having this confession, and the only person to acknowledge that moment is the other girl, then the confession is only important to those girls. As i told you before, the side character needs its resolution about those feelings, and the main character needs to realise some things that are link to the confession”.

I explained that since then, Naruto and Hinata have a couple of moments, and I showed them to him as well.

“Okey, I can see your concern. As stories develop sometimes we create characters that we wish we would have seen more of. But as much as I watched about this character, the conclusion of every interaction they have (naruto and hinata) is the girl thinking the same thing. We never see him thinking about her, or about what she has done. In the case of the other girl (Sakura) we have both of them thinking about each other constantly. In this cases the side character (hinata) will have her own resolution thanks to the impact the main character have had on her, and the other two (sakura and naruto) are more likely to have a resolution together. You can decode this just by who they keep in their thoughts. The main character has been in love with the other girl (sakura) for the whole story, and it is constantly showed. You never get a hint that he is changing his mind, so it would not be logical for him to change his mind in the blink of an eye, and he’s the main character, he gets what he wants. In this kind of stories, he works his ass off, he gets what he wants, and the other characters learn from him”

So I asked him what about the movie and I tell him everything that is going on and he told me.

“Then it means that in the main story the writer couldn’t really find a right way to give this character her resolution, so he created the perfect situation for her to have it. If this story is linked to the main one, then it will has no sense with her ending up with the main character. By the plot of this side story, I can tell that what you will mainly see is the final impact the main character has had on her, and the writer will be able to develop her story successfully, but as I see it, and talking with my own experience, her resolution will not be ending by the side of the main character. She will go through her own personal journey, she will finally give him the scarf as a sign of that chapter of her life ending because she will know new things about herself”

I thanked him, and as I was leaving his office he said to me. 

“Remember that stories have to make more sense than real life. So, if you want two people to end up together, you have to constantly show how that bond gets stronger. In stories nothing just happens, so I highly doubt he will love the other girl out of nowhere, not after the writer has spend 15 years invested on the other relationship, it will be kind of crushing. Can you imagine it? Spending so much time with the one you love going through the same things, and suddenly having to forget him because someone else loves you?" 

"No, sir”

“Yeah. Keep me updated, you have made me curious”

“Course I will”

So yeah, Im keeping my high hopes, or else I will be pretty disappointed. I don’t want to end up feeling disappointed.

 

After the Ending

as a lot of people requested it, and here’s the update on what my professor thought of naruto’s end. But for other people’s request is not only as a NS perspective, but all of naruto. I hope this give you some peace, NS.

This time he has the whole profile of Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, and Hinata. That way there’s no missing info.

“Okay, so main character, and main female don’t end together”

“No”

“But then, there was this third love interest, which is pretty close to a main character”

“Yup”

“Okay, in the narrative there’s actually a lot of stuff missing. There are wholes everywhere. First of all, foreshawing. He used some kind of foreshadowing but for absolute nothing. You have literal examples of why the main guy, and the pink haired girl would end up together. They spend all of their time together which following basic rules, would’ve lead to them ending up together. You remember the little notebook that I made each of you in my class have?”

“Yes”

“If I make you write every detail about a story is because these kind of things. When you develop a story, the circumstances in your life will change, and that will make your perceptions of your life change. If in your story your main interest is to make something happen, you have to make everything for it to happen. You have to foreshadow, develop the plot, everything for it to be obvious to happen. If you develop a relationship, and at the same time intended to create the character’s development through it, you have to go with it till the end. If you don’t keep clear track of your work, then you might change your mind halfway there, but you have already develop something, you can’t just stop there. 

Let’s put it this way. We are filming right now, we’re halfway the scene. Suddenly I take out a candle, and I put it on the desk. Would that affect the scene?”

“Yes, cause that would damage the continuity, if you want a candle on the table you should’ve put it there from the start because then we have to start  all over again”

“Exactly. I didn’t have quite clear what I wanted from the scene, so right at the middle, I decided something different. It is the same with stories. Have you watched How I Met Your Mother?”

“A couple of episodes”

“Well, they did something similar to it. You can ask every fan of the series, they love the series but they hate the end. They foreshadow something, that at the end didn’t happened. You sold something you couldn’t keep going. I want to know about what happened to his promise to her, I want to know what happened to make him give up on her, I want to know so many things that I don’t see here.

Also, the character development I see here is awful. The girl with the purple hair, in her biography says she couldn’t take care of her clan, family, because she was weak. Since that is left aside, practically, her development is cero. She stays the same from start, to end. If you bring a character to the spotlight you should then give them development. And if it’s development is getting the guy she wanted, then is poor, because, what changed in her? What can I take out of her character?

Same with the pink hair girl. At the end she ends up with a guy who hurt her, so she went full circle. She changed, but return to be the same. But I have more comments about her”

“But… the main character changed by not still loving the main girl, that isn’t development then?”

“Well, as I read, the line of this story was to surpass the past generations and get what they didn’t get. The main character didn’t accomplish his development because by not getting the girl, he practically repeated the same mistake his past generations did”

“So, what can you tell about this?”

“Even thou the development of the story ended hideous, I feel the case of this story is that, the writer left so many doors open, so in the end he could just enter whatever he wanted. That decision was taken later, that’s obvious. We saw how the feelings of the main girl for the other guy started to change, and we have many parallels, and we never saw his feelings changing, we just have a couple of momentos with someone else, but we never had some depth in them, so it’s normal to feel confused, but I think this is the case. Just like Harry Potter, JK stated a couple of years after ending the books she wished she could change the ending, and made hermione ended with harry. This guy had the time to change his decision, maybe he felt nostalgic for his characters, or maybe, as a comercial script, as I can see, they give what was more asked for. The possibilities were too many.

So you can understand me with this, let’s talk about the other main guy, he was a bad person, but he stated the only people he trusted was this three persons, which only one was a girl, and that girl was in love with him. So if his resolution was going to be something like having a family, the only person he could be was the main girl, since is the only girl who he consider important. But as well, his resolution was sudden, for the whole story he made clear he wasn’t interested, but he had a change of heart at the last minute. Is what I’m telling you about leaving an open door for everything, so he could end it any way he wanted. The ending is very ambiguous, we have little flashes of every characters, it is… incomplete. At least it would’ve been nice to see the relationships of the characters after so many years. I get they have kids, but I don’t get more of it. I don’t know how their relationships work now. That at least would have convinced me more, but sadly, it kind of leave me feeling incomplete.

My last comment would be… it was a very noble thing for the main character to left his love interest so his friend could be happy, cause that’s the only explanation I found. It was really noble for her to keep loving him even thou he was such a bad person. And for the other main character, he has the best character development, cause he was the only one that went through a true change. It could’ve done more with their characters, I would make the main character get the girl, and the other guy I would just left him alone and supporting his friends for once, cause it’s always their friends supporting him, for me it would have felt better, but it’s not my story, so I have nothing more else to say. It’s nice in its own way. Ambiguous, but somehow nice”.

So that’s that people. NS should not be disappointed, they have a whole journey. Naruto and Sakura have so many moments that you can repeat again and again. Naruto might be over, but not in our hearts. So keep drawing, and writing, and everything you want about NaruSaku!

Love you all!

 

http://meekosfreedom...ers-please-read

 

http://meekosfreedom...se-read-part-ii

 

That's a well thought out analysis for someone who never read Naruto and had few details to work with. Kudos to the professor for even taking his time to give his analysis on Naruto's relationships.