ds
You mentioned the Dark Knight, which is character driven. Your explanation shows you don't understand the difference between plot and character driven. It is Batman's existence, the very essence of who his character is, that makes the plot possible. Thus, it is -character- driven, and you see both external and internal struggles with the character for this reason. The plot fails if you change aspects of batman, his morality, his upbringing .It falls apart. Joker only comes into play, because of the Dark Knight.
You are correct that Sasuke is not Plot Driven, the story he is a part of is, or rather, to say things correctly. If I change Sasuke with another generic friend of Naruto that went rogue, largely, things would be similiar for his subplots...because all we get to drive it is "Here's a mission". I gave an example of how it matches the plot driven definition. Sasuke does act as part of the plot for Naruto's view as a target to acquire, but in Sasuke's own subplots? They're not character driven. Your definition also makes no sense because characters aren't plot or character driven, it's the story itself that has the form or not. The plot is largely driving things.
And here's the shocking thing: Yes, Sasuke not going with Orochimaru would change things, but this is still all external, the opportunity itself formed by plot, -not- character. Saying if Batman didn't help gotham against Joker things would stay the same largely misses the point: and misrepresents the situation Joker was doing these things because of batman anyway, because of -his- character.
You have yet to disprove that the story here is not plot driven, nor match up your definition to the accepted forms of plot and character driven, as you keep tying it to a character, which is probably why you are missing the actual form. This is why to me it seems you are complaining about it being plot driven, because it makes no sense to say that a character is supposed to be plot or character driven.
" It is Batman's existence, the very essence of who his character is, that makes the plot possible"
" The plot fails if you change aspects of batman, his morality, his upbringing .It falls apart"
Do you even read your own stuff? You talk about his Characterdesign. What do you think are the themes of a Marvel/DC story ? Its the (Anti-)Hero vs the Villain. Good vs Evil. Batman needs to be Batman to fit in the theme. However the theme doesn't determine the drive of the Plot.
In "Batman Begings" he is the driving force of the Plot, because the Plot is decided around his actions. He decides to dissapear from the society, finding a place to start his training. He decides to go back to Gotham to start his new life as 'Batman', fighting the criminals inside of the city. Its more a Story about Bruce Wayne becoming the Batman, thos self-explained is Characterdrive.
Thats not the case in "The Dark Knight". He already is Batman, He already is trying to keep the Order in Gotham. Thats what the current state of Gotham is until Joker appears to drive the Plot in a different direction, where Batman fails to keep the order and gotham falls into Chaos. Thats because of the Joker, and Batman is reacting towards Jokers moves/decisions, trying to stop him.
"Sasuke does act as part of the plot"
He acts to service the Plot.. thats how he is part of the 'Plot'. He does questionable decisions without good or any reasoning, and all his decisions provide the perfect act for Kishimoto to support his intention of the following flow. Thats what i call "acts to service the plot".
Kishimoto: "I need a something, so Naruto (Konoha) and Sasuke will head towards a conflicht against each other"
-> "Well, let Sasuke join Akatsuki so he continues his dark-path"
Kishimoto "I need something for Naruto and Sasuke to compete at the end, to give the fight a profound meaning"
-> "Well, let Sasuke also attend for the titel as Hokage, or maybe even for the soul of the world"
Kishimoto "I need something to force a Kage-summit, to build up the Moon-plan with the following War"
-> "Well, let Sasuke attack Killer-Bee so the Raikage can summon an Kage-summit"
Kishimoto "I need to show that Sasuke is 'evil' and sticked to his path"
-> "Sasuke randomly attacks his former teammates after seeing them for the first time after 3 years, putting his goal 'rebuilding his clan' at risk with such a move"
Its more than obvious how Sasuke is used as a puppet to drive the flow of the Plot.
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This will be my last reply to this topic. You are propably the biggest Kishimoto-Fan i ever met. Tryharding so much to defend his writing, ridiculous.
"Your explanation shows you don't understand the difference between plot and character driven."
I mean, you use the 'Characterdesign' of Batman as a standpoint to why the Plot is Characterdriven.. kek
You fail to execute your 'knowledge' about writing, but atleast you call yourself a 'writer' infront of others :-)
dont bother your time writing an reply where you will just continue exposing yourself as someone who can't add things properly, despite all the arguments, facts and comparisons. I wont read your reply anyways, have a nice day.
Edited by Riverkid, 22 August 2017 - 04:25 PM.
