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Kishi's New Sci-fi Series: Samurai 8


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#301 Phantom_999

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 04:25 PM

What was keeping it alive for so long was two things. One, Kishimoto was the mangaka, and two, there were about 3-4 series last year that were up for cancellation before it and WSJ had hit it limit of how many they cancelled per year. That gave this manga more time, but really because of how the manga was done it only let him finishes of the series as quickly as possible.
 
Its treading because it was announce the next chapter will be the last chapter and the Pro-ending fans are trying to justify why it being cancelled. Mainly, it wasn't bad and if only it could have hit Western shore sooner it would have survived, and Japanese have poor taste. 
 
It had a simple goal, find the keys to unlock Pandora's Box to bring about peace to the galaxy. Then he made it complex in order to tie Hachi to the story; he and his brother are the keys and his existence prevents them from becoming such also their another box.
 
The main thing I will say is that was a problem story-wise was, he was too focus on getting into space. Or. He was too focus on getting the story started to focus on establishing the story's setting. Vaguely here what happened before going into space. An intro chapter. A few chapters hanging out with that kid, Ten chapters of Hachi/Anna while the villain was coming. (In these chapters also Daruma sometime gives lectures to Hachi about basic Samurai know how, and him questioning Hachi's father.) Then space. Even going into space was pretty much just, well the prologue is now over so lets get the story actually started. This manga should not have gone into space before at least chapter 50 and those chapters should have been use to establish the setting and the main cast. By having Hachi explore his home world, learn more about aspect of the society of this setting, interact with as many people as possible to see more of his personality, and learn from Daruma. Instead, all this story has is a bare bone setting and most of the information comes from a talking-cat that never stops lecturing.
 
Also, it does not help that kishimoto made the primary abilities of this setting multi layered with the locker-ball, cyborg body, soul sword, schools, princess bonds, robot animal mount/armor, and war god among other things. 
 
Most of the cast isn't bad in concept, but without much focus they are all very bland. Daruma is a frustrated mentor that has a tortured background but not much focus. Hachi is too idealized. And Anna is too much like Hinata as the heroine. Those two clown that join them in space are pretty much are teenage Madara(mixed with Suigetsu) and Hashirama(mixed with Sai).
 
The romance was honestly more interesting to see how much of it was NS inspired, and to see how much the ending & backlash of Naruto's ending affected him. The problem is the characters that made up the couple weren't that interesting so it was hard to invest into unless you were trying. Also the ten chapters he spent on that could have been used to focus on other things especially so early into the story.
 
Also, the art. Its parts look nice, but it was too cluttered, which made it hard to know what was going on.

 
Yeah and from the sounds of it, said goal wasn't even Hachimaru's to begin with and he was forced into it. plus he became a samurai because he admired them but he had no true ambitions beyond that so obviously that was not too engaging. And as you have said there was so much introduced and going  without focus or  meaningful purpose in the narrative that it lost itself in exposition and jumbled over until the audience long gets bored of it. Naruto at least started off with Naruto having a sympathetic goal. to become hokage so he would gain recognition and you see how crappy his backstory istto reinforce your sympathy for him and that makes him easy to root for. Hachimaru on the other hand doesn't really have much in the ways of a goal and had some family drama that, while serving as a plot point, did not have any real lasting impact nor was it even considered a motivation for him from what I recall. mix all that together and well this is the result. And again it can't be stressed enough that the cash cowing stunt from "The Last" triggered outrage from a lot of fans and they obviously would not give him the benefit of the doubt anymore. 
 
And obviously those defenders don't know kitten to what they are saying about manga marketing.  It should have hit western shores sooner? The Japanese have not taste? Do they even realize that western shores and fans are NOT up for consideration in the grand scheme of things of a manga's success or fail until it is considered profitable and stable in it's own native fanbase. Exoporting a manga is an afterthought at best if it is taken into consideration at all. The prime factor is that if a manga sells  in Japan. If it doesn't it's a flop. If it's a flop, no export. End of story. And are this *beeps* so deutional enough to think that taking their money is a saving grace in any sense of the word for the series? They think that their money matters if a series gets cancelled even when they have at least one volume being sold in western countries? Talk about FAN DUMB ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Edited by Phantom_999, 20 March 2020 - 04:34 PM.

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#302 Gravenimage

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 04:44 PM

Why can't Kishi write another Naruto manga with the editors he has for S8? Make it how he truly wanted it to be not caring what the western fans will say. 


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#303 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 07:15 PM

I know for a lot of people it was the first few chapters that didn't really get people on board with the manga because it was a lot of information all at once which is something I can agree on. I remember rereading it a more couple of times to get what it was saying. 

 

I could understand from a writing perspective with what Kishi wanted to do, and perhaps it could've worked in another magazine just not in Weekly Shonen when it comes to the target audience.  This might just be me when I say this, but Kishi should've slowly introduced these concepts in a very in a simple way, and over time it becomes complex. 

 

Some people though are kinda going overboard like oh it's not like Naruto, there's no love triangle (don't necessarily think Kishi would've wanted it since he regrets doing that based off the interview he did back in 2017), there's no bumbling idiot, and I'll say this;  I do commend Kishi for at least trying to do something different. Sure it may've been too complex for its own good, but I think that falls more in line with execution more than anything. 

 

Perfect example that comes to mind for me is Hunter x Hunter where the storytelling from the beginning is simplistic when it comes to people wanting to become Hunters, and as the story progressed you got introduced to things like nen, and what not. 

 

I would even say maybe look at what Edens Zero is doing because simple storytelling, and characters that are slowly developing over time. Same thing could be said about concepts too because all you knew was that it seemed like a simply fantasy story before the space aspect kicked in. It's mainly what I found myself enjoying most about Edens Zero, and something I think Kishi could've taken into account.  You could also attribute that to Edens Zero being in a different publishing magazine, and because Hiro has two successful series under his belt.... Well I would argue it's one legendary series being Rave Master, and one wasted potential series being Fairy Tail.  Edens Zero so far to me is proving to be a lot more than what Fairy Tail was going for, and that's what makes it great especially the current arc we are in.

 

But back on point, there are certain areas that Kishi has improved in, but there are areas he'll need to work on and whatever his next series is hopefully he takes that into account. 

I think this could have worked in Jump. If it had happened as I said. If it spent time developing the universe and character before going off into space. The things from the start thing weren't explain such as the locker ball, schools, and animal armor were their in the intro fight before we even meet hachi. The problem is something weren't explain and if something was explain it was from a lecture from Daruma. Which while fine, he is the mentor, but it don't feel natural when he doing all the explaining.

 

Hachi wasn't a bumbling idiot but he wasn't that far removed from Naruto.

 

The thing with romance was that it was effected by what happened with Naruto and he was trying to over compensate. it could have been good if it was more gradual.

 

Eden's Zero and Samurai 8 are honestly very similar; they are the next story of their mangaka after they had written a lengthily fantasy series and taken what they had learned their into a sci-fi world. Hiro, was able to take elements from fairy tail and sort of streamline aspects of the story a bit, while making improvement to  the based on what people said about FT. Kishimoto, only really knew about how people didn't like how the pairings turned out and since that overshadows all other criticism he didn't know what to fix so he brought all the problems of shippuden into S8.

 

 
Yeah and from the sounds of it, said goal wasn't even Hachimaru's to begin with and he was forced into it. plus he became a samurai because he admired them but he had no true ambitions beyond that so obviously that was not too engaging. And as you have said there was so much introduced and going  without focus or  meaningful purpose in the narrative that it lost itself in exposition and jumbled over until the audience long gets bored of it. Naruto at least started off with Naruto having a sympathetic goal. to become hokage so he would gain recognition and you see how crappy his backstory is to reinforce your sympathy for him and that makes him easy to root for. Hachimaru on the other hand doesn't really have much in the ways of a goal and had some family drama that, while serving as a plot point, did not have any real lasting impact nor was it even considered a motivation for him from what I recall. mix all that together and well this is the result. And again it can't be stressed enough that the cash cowing stunt from "The Last" triggered outrage from a lot of fans and they obviously would not give him the benefit of the doubt anymore. 
 
And obviously those defenders don't know kitten to what they are saying about manga marketing.  It should have hit western shores sooner? The Japanese have not taste? Do they even realize that western shores and fans are NOT up for consideration in the grand scheme of things of a manga's success or fail until it is considered profitable and stable in it's own native fanbase. Exporting a manga is an afterthought at best if it is taken into consideration at all. The prime factor is that if a manga sells  in Japan. If it doesn't it's a flop. If it's a flop, no export. End of story. And are this *beeps* so devotional enough to think that taking their money is a saving grace in any sense of the word for the series? They think that their money matters if a series gets cancelled even when they have at least one volume being sold in western countries? Talk about FAN DUMB ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

It wasn't a problem with getting Hachi invest and he did have a decent story idea. The pandora's box could have been this story's one piece. This cripple boy who always wanted to be a samurai becomes one and want to become the greatest Samurai by both holding himself to their purest ideal and finding the box and bringing peace to the galaxy. That could have worked if the story had focused on that. Instead of him being so blase about everything.

 

Why can't Kishi write another Naruto manga with the editors he has for S8? Make it how he truly wanted it to be not caring what the western fans will say. 

This was him finally doing his own thing. The manga he always wanted to write a Samurai manga with scifi elements. He had a green editor


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 20 March 2020 - 10:01 PM.


#304 Phantom_999

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 03:40 PM

Yeah I don't mean to say it didn't have potential. It could have been successful and had everything it needed to be successful. It just fell flat because there should have been more focus on Hachimaru first and foremost the plot to go into space zoomed in well before any chance to expand on Hachi's home planet could be done, etc. etc. It feels overall he may have rushed things too much. Although I will assume that is partially due to him not wanting to drag things out like with Naruto


Edited by Phantom_999, 21 March 2020 - 10:47 PM.

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#305 LuckyChi7

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 05:20 PM

The Final chapter is out which means its the last time to witness HachiAnn moments. 

 

 

Here they are: 

 

 


90168864_3757283564313869_25318478304614

 

90269479_3757255564316669_67244297719140

 

 

 

90270501_3757255420983350_88850884468429

 

 

 

 

90150166_3757255187650040_38361018033682

 

 

 

 

 

90217613_3757255160983376_35421915477159

 

 

 

90342986_3757255134316712_86656477143079

 

 

90225483_3757255394316686_63240735493088

 

 

 

90170975_3757255510983341_18446408739842

 

 

90197356_3757255324316693_55183803464894


Edited by LuckyChi7, 22 March 2020 - 05:22 PM.

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#306 Phantom_999

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 06:33 PM

Ah so Hachi disappears. hmm. Well that's whatever. Not a good ending, but not terrible either and it not being satisfactory is understandable since it got cut really short. All in all, it was alright


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#307 Gravenimage

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 09:31 PM

Definitely a better ending than Naruto's that's for sure.


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#308 Derock

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 09:46 PM

Well, its alright. I do like Adult Ann's design, she looks pretty, especially with her hair in a high ponytail.


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#309 LuckyChi7

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 11:24 PM

You know this might be me, but with the situation Samurai 8 was in I do kinda feel bad for Kishi considering this was his passion project and that he ultimately had to rush it due to the rankings the sales in the volumes. 

 

I will say though that the two areas in which he had major writing in when it came to Naruto was certainly improved upon here be it the female lead and of course the romance sub-plot even despite the fact that the series was rushed due to getting cancelled.  

 

 

It is still unfortunate as to what happened to Sakura's character at the end of the Naruto because if you look at beginning Sakura to end Sakura there is no change. Which I hate saying given that at one point she use to be one of my favorite characters. 

 

 

Some have even said that Ann is too much like Hinata which isn't necessarily true given from what Kishi laid out because from the get-go she's always had a stammer issue when it comes to meeting new people not necessarily with Hachimaru.  The so called gracious queen Hinata had no problem talking to others, it was just Naruto she couldn't talk properly too. Especially since she didn't really make any contribution to the plot of the story whatever, whereas with Ann you get to see her grow alongside Hachimaru and see them talk about their issues and resolve it in a mature manner.  

 

 

Especially if we are talking endgame stuff because Hinata was setup to be the one in charge of the Hyuga Clan and instead she just gets married to Naruto and becomes a full on housewife. 

 

 

Ann on the other hand, started off as a princess to help support Hachimaru and when you see this conclusion (as rushed as it is) she takes up the mantle from Hachimaru  ultimately being the guy she came to love and honor him by fulfilling the quest of searching for the other keys. 

 

 

The same thing could also be said about Hachimaru because he was established as sickly disabled kid who couldn't really do much to a heroic Samurai who gave his life in protecting the girl he cares about and the people around him (even though it got rushed due to the axe). 

 

I mean yeah you could equate it to the series not being as long as Naruto because of what Shounen Jump did, but even so you can definitely see growth and development with the main character when it comes to the the journey. 

 

 

As a whole I will say I personally enjoyed it more than Naruto which you could equate that to how much the overall ending affected me and the rest of us, and had Kishi got to complete the story in the way he wanted to I think overall this would've been more remembered than Naruto in terms of the overall journey, character development, etc. Instead, it's just going to become one of those series that had the unfortunate situation of getting axed because of Shounen Jump's current policy.     

 

   

Final point to mention is that the situation now is different for me with Kishi at least when looking at Naruto's ending because back then I was mad not because of pairings, but in terms of themes and characters being betrayed. The Samurai 8 ending makes me feel bad for what happened because you can see this is how he wanted to end the story and things got brought us to this point, and I wish him the best of luck when it comes the next series he creates after this.    


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#310 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 11:52 PM

If she is Hinata but the heroine this time. The thing is that what Hinata does as a side character wouldn't work for a Shounen manga heroine for the last 30 or so years. Ann would have to have at least more of a spine and be a bit more active.

 

The romance itself was fine but it had too much focus early on when the story should have been focused on explaining the setting.

 

Hinata was not set up to lead the hyuuga clan she was set up to marry Neji.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 24 March 2020 - 11:52 PM.


#311 kidNinja

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 09:31 PM

Wish we could see Kishi do a Naruto continuation with NS kids as the true continuation like Dragon Ball Super to Drahonball GT aka how Boruto would look with competent writing.
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#312 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 02:42 AM

If she is Hinata but the heroine this time. The thing is that what Hinata does as a side character wouldn't work for a Shounen manga heroine for the last 30 or so years. Ann would have to have at least more of a spine and be a bit more active.

 

The romance itself was fine but it had too much focus early on when the story should have been focused on explaining the setting.

 

Hinata was not set up to lead the hyuuga clan she was set up to marry Neji.

 

Wait where was Hinata set up to marry Neji?



#313 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 06:49 AM

Wait where was Hinata set up to marry Neji?

It seemed to me to be what she was originally suppose to do. 

 

1) First Cousin Marriages happen in Japan especially to keep possessions in the family.

 

2) Often if a major family in Eastern Asia country main family have only daughter they adopt the husband and he takes on their family name. This also may have happened to Minato which is why Naruto last name was Uzumaki not Namikaze.

 

3) NejiXHinata was popular in Japan and was even in Lee side manga.

 

4) The Hyuuga's story was Neji's not Hinata when he died it was dropped from the plot and replaced with Kaguya and Moon Princesses.



#314 LuckyChi7

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 01:16 AM

So the final volume cover came out:

 

 

EW56IPLWoAI93_J.jpg

 

 

 

definitely much better than Naruto's final volume cover!

 

 

Ashamed it got axed, but let's see what Kishi has in store for next time. 


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#315 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 01:33 AM

That's because it wasn't a generic fan cover. Anyways all the volumes' cover art has been good its just the interior art is to cluttered.



#316 totherpage95

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 04:16 PM

for whatever reason kishi didn’t want to do the art but i think if he did the story and art it might not have been cancelled



#317 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 09:40 PM

for whatever reason kishi didn’t want to do the art but i think if he did the story and art it might not have been cancelled

He's what between 44-46 by the point this manga started. He is old, and doing that means he would have to spend more time working on it when he wants to spend as much time with his family as possible which was also the reason he ended Naruto.

 

There is a problem with the art but the story is what really killed it.






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