What bothers me about neutrality with fictional romance and taking it for as it is that viewers often forget the context of such things. Yes Naruto is a shonen battle manga that does not focus on romance as a theme per say but again there always that difference from other shonen manga that don't care about romance and make couples last second or treat it as a joke at best. Naruto has ALWAYS had feelings for Sakura and it is not a silly childhood crush or a fleeting feeling that he was not serious about or else there would never have been a POAL in the first place. Naruto shows complete selflessness towards Sakura and maturity in putting her happiness above his own. Sakura in turn shows that in her worst circumstances when she is most vulnerable and lost and upset and powerless it was Naruto that comforts her and listens to her problems. that lays the very foundation of how close they become throughout the story. I'm not going to repeat the moments they have together because it would just be redundant at this point. Think of it like this, What if Rurouni Kenshin remained unchanged in it's story and plot but Watsuki decided last second that Kenshin is would be happier with Megumi as his wife because she is more feminine and does not emasculate him, or maybe she looks more like his first wife and chucks all that development with Kaoru out the window. That is essentially what Naruto did at the end, it chucked the development between Naruto and Sakura out the window for a side character that has no real importance to the plot and for the main character in general. What if Slam Dunk resolved the love triangle with Kaede getting together with Haruko despite not showing any affection for her and doesn't care about romance in general and Haruko saying Hanamichi was only shallowly interested in her? Again That is what Naruto did. Naruto is not like other shonen series in that there is not romantic development at all and the author can slap together couples however they feel last second and whatever pleases them. Naruto had a love interest and they developed together progressively throughout the series and they owe a large part of their growth to each other. Typical romance writing in fiction, even if there is not an emphasis on it. This is different from Dragon Ball where Goku had no such moments with Bulma so who cares if he married Chichi? 

I know I haven't posted for a while But I just want to put that out there. In terms of Neutrality, context is very important if not everything

I haven't thought about Dragon Ball for a while now But I'm extremely sad that this legend passed away this year on the month of my birthday. Rest in Peace Toriyama-sensei, you were part of my childhood and many successful Shonen manga owe their being to you.

Oh the anime definitely made Sakura look worse than she actually was in the anime. However it doesn't erase the the fact that Sakura called Naruto annoying and acted like he was a constant bother to her during her introduction. It doesn't erase the fact that she unsympathetically said he has an easy life because he's an orphan and doesn't have parents getting on his case and disciplining him. It doesn't erase the fact that she said she hated him during their first introductory talk with Kakashi. It doesn't erase all of the preferential treatment she gave Sasuke in Part I of the series. I'm just pointing out that though Sakura was the love interest, the odds seem stacked against Naruto in part I regardless of the anime because the anime did not do much except crank up her tsundere tendencies and fan girl swooning over Sasuke and there was not that much filler content for any of that if I want to be honest. It wasn't until part II that things actually started looking up for Naruto and Sakura as a potential couple. I'm not saying the idea wasn't there from the beginning or that I'm influenced by how much more absurdly mean the anime made Sakura seem to Naruto to be against her being his love interest in Part I but at the same time the Part I content is not actually a vote of confidence either until the POAL where Sakura finally realizes how much Naruto actually cares about her.

I'm just speaking objectively when I look back on it. Was Sakura meant to be the love interest from the get go? Of course. But she wasn't interested in Naruto nor did she emotionally support him either. That is different from the Hananmichi- Haruko- Kaede love triangle where while where Haruko isn't aware of Hanamichi's feelings she is at least a good friend to him and encourages him none-the-less. If Sakura had shown that t least, then maybe It wouldn't seem so off putting for her to be the love interest to anyone not aware of the intention that Naruto is meant to change others' perception of him including Sakura, ultimately overturning the dark painful days of his childhood. Anyway this just ties back to my point. Sakura would be better received I feel, in the live action series if she dials down her initial contempt for Naruto and her fan girl tendencies towards Sasuke and be at least a bit nicer to Naruto. That would be an obvious choice And I bring up the live action adaptation of One Piece as a reference that Nami did not show any real violent tsundere tendencies either so it stands to reason The same can be made for Sakura. What I'm getting that is if they want to change the end pairings, then more effort has to be put in to convince the audience, ergo Sakura should not be portrayed one to one exactly as she was in the manga or anime. It would help IF they decide to make NaruSaku canon in the live action series. But that is just my two cents on it, and honestly I am as indifferent to the live action series as I am anything else post Chapter 698. I was just speaking hypotheticals

I'd say that for that to be feasible, it would actually have to overhaul and change Naruto and Sakura's relationship enough during the early stages. There is one thing that obviously won't be in  live action adaptations and that is the outlandish tsundere behaviour. But they would have to go beyond that I feel. Sakura would actually see Naruto as a genuine friend and be much warmer to him than she was in the source material for it to work. I say this because not only from a story telling stand point but for the fact that if they are going to change the end pairing any way there is no point to keep it in line with the story in that regard. Let's not forget why Sakura had detractors in the first place, she was being an obnoxious Sasuke fangirl and treated Naruto unfairly in the beginning, not matter how it was suppose to make her seem like a "normal girl". For viewers to actually invest in the relationship it has to be shown that there is a foundation for it. I admit even that though I was always a NaruSaku shipper from the beginning, I look back on it now and realize it was also half wishful thinking on my part with how Sakura regarded Naruto early story, even if there was a typical anime feel to their relationship. So with that in mind again it would be better if Sakura and Naruto's relationship starts off better that it did in the manga and (EFFING BIASED) anime. She doesn't have to fall for Naruto yet, but she should show concern for him and not give that infamous "Naruto always has an easy life because he's an orphan" speech and not show outright disdain for him. I hope Kishi at least learned from his mistakes and understands that It was not Sakura's femininity that was at fault for her chilly reception among "gaijin otaku wannabes" but that she did not leave a good first impression as the "love interest" for the main character  

Oh yeah I heard that too! Hopefully we get a Noelle reunion too soon, because we're down to 4 chapters per year I get it's for his health and to keep good quality work but that is why I'm hoping for it SOONER than later

So... I Finally finished FMA. And oh boy... I said it is my favorite anime... I mean it. It ended on a high note. EdWin for the win.

One of my big Four (the other three are MHA, Black Clover and Fuukoi)

YEEEAAAH, Knocking down and blowing up an essential part of Naruto's character (the POAL) obviously wasn't gonna backfire.    You either completely undermine Naruto's understanding of love and make him a self serving hypocritical douchebag or you accept Hinata was a pity prize. One contradicts the other, and you CAN'T have both.

We can debate at how much of a sell it will turn out to be, at least. if if it actually happens, and in the mean time we can laugh at the development hell it is currently going under. There is clear debate and hesitancy on whether it will be a bust.

And I'm sorry, but there's no way that poll can ever be taken seriously.  NaruHina and SasuSaku ranking higher than TwiYor and Kirisuna is an absolute joke.  Especially when even the series itself has taken cracks at NaruHina by pointing out that Hinata is an incompetent mother via Naruto insulting her for abandoning their children in a crisis, to Toneri straight-out saying to Boruto that Hinata was a consolation prize for his father. 

I'd personally stick to Loid.    But that's just me

but yeah you know a relationship is sad when what's holding it together are the kids and nothing else if at all. The husbands ARE NOT EXCITED to see or spend time with their wives. The story clearly points that out

Nothing. People just wanted her out of the way because they assumed Hinata "deserved" Naruto.

Ditto

 

True enough.  The only thing revelatory about the repeated analyses is that a wider portion of the western fandom seems to finally be catching on and accepting what we've been saying here for nearly a decade now: That NaruHina x SasuSaku are toxic, stagnant, and incompatible. Also, that the "Hinata is a goddess" rhetoric seems to be fading.

Yeah and despite how angry I seem I can at least acknowledge that opinions are shifting. However I'm really unsympathetic to any that "see the light" now because it was the initial attitudes of this vocal minority that ruined this series that I spent over a decade emotionally investing my self into only for it to turn to kitten BECAUSE of said vocal minority and the nutcases that allowed it and promoted it because they all imagine themselves vicariously banging Hinata Hyuga. No amount of "seeing the error of their ways or how garbage the series has become" will ever change that fact. Naruto has been ruined because they couldn't keep their traps shut and stop thinking with "in between their legs". If that sounds harsh, It's no skin off my nose. IT WAS their illogical ranting and hating on Sakura and over idolizing Hinata that led to this trash heap, and it ruined Naruto for EVERYONE. Again no amount of realization will ever change that. Even if Kishimoto decides to reboot the series it will never erase the pain and betrayal I felt back then and I won't go back to Naruto even if it were to happen. But that is just me. Ultimately what I'm saying is, can I accept what they are saying and that they see the illogical fallacies of NH and SS now? Sure. Does it change anything or will it change anything? I highly doubt it. And what particularly makes me upset is if any of these opinions come from a former Hinata hierophant influencer acting like they do not understand the damage they did by speaking out their baloney on social media and are only changing tune when they realized giving Hinata what she wanted was not what was good for the story, if even the authorities that own the Naruto property realize that Hinata had so little going on with Naruto that they had to make bull kitten up to get them together and make all of the main trio look worse off and hypocritical about it. Stating opposite views now will never erase that they are partially responsible for Naruto heading into the direction it does so their criticisms to me ring especially shallow. 

Found these videos talking about everything wrong with the ss and nh relationship

https://youtu.be/xKY...2sH1e_cIsXLlRCH

https://youtu.be/hLz...l_GQYBPzMjk_wrj

Oh gee, I WONDER WHAAAAAT is wrong with the relationships........... (stares at the manga pre-692)

Surely it has nothing to do with it being pulled out of the @$$, incompatible personalities (Naruto is a man child and Hinata passively enables it) shallowness (Sakura drooled over Sasuke's HAWTNESS, and not him as a person, Hinata vicariously wanted to be confident like Naruto despite being branded as a failure, and never looked at him as a person either) lack of investment on the relationship on the men's part (Do Naruto and Sasuke look to be "in love with" their wives to you?) etc. etc. IT'S ALL IN OUR HEADS, BECAUSE WE ARE SALTY STUPID NARUSAKU FANS, that don't appreciate the genius of the story that is Naruto Uzumaki falling in love with his soulmate, Hinata Hyuga!!!!!!!!!   *Blow my brains out* 

Serious question. Does anyone else here feel it is too late to complain now? As I stated years ago. Just give it a rest and move on. I wonder why anyone sticks with the series at this point if they realize or already understood how bad it is currently. All of this analysis of the NH's and SS' relationships is done to death and guess what, you don't need to be a certified RELATIONSHIP THERAPIST to see what is wrong with these couples. This is old news to anyone that actually reads manga/watches anime on the regular or actually sits down to think "IS THIS what I want in a relationship?"

*I'm not aiming any of this at you you Bluestar, Just want to make that clear*

Well I can't say  that indicates what the fandom generally feels but that is nice to hear at least. doubly so if it some sort of former NH fan

trying to, lol but the updates take so long I forget to check sometimes

It's surprising because there are many strong females in manga/anime as I've said and the competition would be very very very tight, But also unsurprising because Sakura is well loved in Japan as many are well aware of. (the popularity polls don't lie) 

Almost definitely

Surprising. Not that she doesn't deserve it (this isn't counting the western NUTCASES after all) but then again there are plenty of "strong" females in many manga and anime so I guess it depends on what you define as strong I suppose

Exactly. I want a well written, healthy romance too if the element is even going to be incorporated. Sexiness, wish fulfillment, entitlement and the like has nothing to do with it, I want genuine bonding and emotional openness without unhealthy clinginess in those types of relationships. It seems though many don't ever think of that or make lame excuses or half @$$ed attempts to justify their shallow reasons as close bonds or emotional openness.   

It's funny that Naruto is only series I know of that actually did that. There could be more but yeah we see now the disastrous consequences of changing plot trajectory especially last second. Granted there was so much else wrong with the War arc and it could have been done better and I attribute it to Kishimoto being wishy washy about the concept of war and giving unnecessary drama to characters he wasn't focusing on anyway with bringing back the dead on both sides etc. etc. Granted there were good and bad moments admittedly on that plot point but it was still mostly unnecessary though in the grand scheme of things. Ninjas just have to deal with death and lack of closure even with their loved ones sometimes. And even if it is, there are other ways to do it besides resurrection. Again that is just my opinion on it.

Kishimoto ultimately was playing Yes man to the authorities that were gaslighting him saying what a great heroine Hinata was and that she was more popular than Sakura because she is a submissive housewife type of girl that Naruto deserves and even go as far as to say that she is popular in the west because of a few youtuber otaku wannabes (I don't need to list them because everybody here knows whom I'm talking about, but feel free to input their names if you wish). Obviously they DID NOT do their research because they were ultimately hearing what they WANTED to hear and so that validated their personal views of Hinata too, ending with them pushing and pushing until Kishi said yes and it was because he just did not want to deal with the stress of it all anymore. He was finally hit with the consequences of writing manga consuming his life when his father passed away and he wasn't even there at his death bed so he just caved in and thought he was giving the fans what they wanted because it was what all his others editors ever since Yahagi left to be editor in chief for Jump Square, were telling him. "Hinata Hyuga is the greatest s** doll wife for Naruto and Sakura Haruno is a ball busting, emasculating she-devil that shouldn't deprive Hinata of her happiness and should get it on with her abusive neglectful crush." You can tell of of this is true because the writing in the movie doesn't add up, since it wasn't Kishi writing it. It wasn't even anyone familiar with Naruto from what I remember, as it contradicted Chapter 1/ episode1 of all things in the franchise. And well, here we are.

In case it wasn't clear even from the get go, the entire series is an after thought in an attempt to squeeze out more money out of the franchise with Kishi showing no emotional investment in it's writing even before it started. Even the initial writer I feel did not want to do it as more than as a jumpstart to his career as a manga author if not artist at the same time before he does his own work. you don't feel any passion in the series even at its highest points. That may be just me since I don't read it but I just read the summaries and obviously I don't glean anything from that alone but the summaries don't feel appealing enough to compel me to read it either.

Just re-affirming my love for these ships after the trailer for the expansion/sequel of Arise dropped the other day.  I'm looking forward to seeing what Alphen and Shionne's dynamic has become after a year of marriage and to see if Law x Rinwell and Dohalim x Kisara has developed.

Alphen should now be Alphen Daymore lol Or Imeris, either one works. That aside, I want to see how married life is treating them, but you know the most functional and stable romantic couples are the ones that don't change that much even after marriage, so yeah. and definitely yes i want to see how Law X Rinwell and Kisara X Dohalim has progressed too

I doubt they would sacrifice SasuNaru moments to have Sasusaku. The most they would do would be to develop Hinata better. Sasusaku would be sidelined, with NaruHina and SasuNaru getting more attention.

 

I believe that Kishimoto has lost interest in the Naruto franchise. He must be more interested in his family, while the franchise is losing popularity.

I'm not saying that they would. I'm only pointing out it is not completely impossible for SS to make a believable couple, they only have to put in the effort for it, just like any other fictional couple. I'm only saying this from an objective standpoint, and am not actually for SS, but again it is only because they are portrayed so negatively. I look at them and think to my self "No way in hell I would want a relationship like that" and I'm sure everyone here agrees. but that is the thing it is because Sasuke was so horrible to Sakura even when he doesn't have to be that makes them a horrible couple. Even positive moments now won't make up for it because it is done in the most lazy @$$ shove down the audience's throats manner possible to force the issue they are a happy married couple when it is not believable to anyone not deluded by the estrogen driven fantasy of "changing the dangerous sexy cool bad boy make him yours" wish fulfillment 

I have the impression that Pierrot pays for bots to defend Boruto. This happens because recently there has been a discussion on Twitter that everything in the Boruto anime is canonical, and there are no fillers, based solely on the statements of the writers that everything is endorsed by Kishimoto, which supposedly makes all events canonical. They seem to ignore the fact that Pierrot conveniently erased elements from "The Last" when necessary. Additionally, there is a group of people that appears to be composed of bots, excessively defending the Uchiha family with questionable arguments, and even resorting to using novels that sometimes resemble fanfics.

 

When I visit the profiles of these individuals, it feels like I've entered a fantasy world, where Sasuke's personality seems to have come out of some generic shoujo anime. The majority of these profiles were created exactly in 2017, the year when the anime came to an end and the couple in question faced a lot of criticism.

Canonical material is ALWAYS ignored, that's how we got here. The Last ignored much of Naruto's source material, and Boruto now does the same thing with IT, despite the fact that the title character never would have existed if not for "The Last". Here is the thing, what is ignored is always subjective to what people WANT to see. You hear fans arguing all the time for instance that any filler scene with Sakura  is ONLY filler and should never be a valid argued for but then they take filler moments with Hinata and attribute that as part of Kishimoto's literary genius. Let's not forget they twist facts around to suit them, such as no matter HOW romantic the implications are with Naruto and Sakura in certain moments they only see each other as brother and sister. Then the Last says that Naruto DID love Sakura but it was shallow selfish as an attempt to win against Sasuke, so he mistook it as genuine love for her. So even if it is not bots, this delusional, demented fan base and the individuals WRITING the series currently certainly give the impression.

There is, actually and I say this completely without bias. 1.Sasuke never leaves the village. 2. Erase all of the kitten he did towards Sakura during part 2 especially in the later parts. 3. Develop them from then on out. The stupidest kitten is not only did SasuSaku happen out of left field, it was built on the foundation of Sasuke breaking Sakura's hear by leaving in the first place and after became so indifferent to her that he has no second thoughts about killing her if she gets in his way. This may be a tough pill to swallow for us a community but it has to be said . Sasuke and Sakura would in no way be as unbelievable as they are now in the narrative if Sasuke never left in the first place and did not show all of that negativity to Sakura that would considered abusive if circumstances were different. in fact his attitude is abusive too even in part 1 but if there was development in that department then it would at least look better. I ultimately support the relationship between Naruto and Sakura because of what was shown, and not only personal preference so that has to be a two way street. IF Sakura actually had any positive development with Sasuke, then it wouldn't be an issue. But no, the authorities that confirmed their relationship took it as an easy way out for Naruto to get it on with  his "dutch wife" Hinata Hyuga and she must be his first and only love so they invalidated his feelings for Sakura and essentially a major part of his character. It ended up making him look as shallow and unsympathetic as the attempted gaslighting on what his feelings for Sakura were and we all know that is fact.

Kishimoto didn't try to gaslight anyone, It was Hinata's fanatics in WSJ, Studio Pierrot that see how hyped up she was in the west that gaslighted HIM AND ATTEMPTED TO GASLIGHT EVERY fan that actually read the story. They thought that the populace that appreciated Hinata Hyuga as a "submissive dutch wife" wife as much as them was WAAAAY bigger than it actually was and appealing to her was the ticket to make Naruto sell even more internationaly and stroke their egos on how how much the Hinata Hyuga community loved Hinata Hyuga. See how badly that back fired, and I just laugh at the irony of it. Kishimoto isn't some manipulative maniac with a hidden agenda, he is a man exhausted and and tired of spending so much time drawing this one series and just wanted to end it because he realizes how much time it took away from him that could be spent with his family instead which really hit him when his father passed away and he was still scribbling away in his studio. Albeit, I still wouldn't put my faith in any manga brand with his name in it anymore, but objectively everyone has to realize he was not the problem or reason with Naruto's decline, it was greed and obsessive vicarious lust for a fictional side character that actually had no impact on the plot.