29 replies to this topic

[ShippudenGirl]

Karin's flashback seemed way too surreal and fake, but I guess it really happened, and yeah i think Karin is the only girl Sasuke ever smiled gently at after saving.

Yep, though I'm not to sure it was really him it could just have been her imagination. If it was just just had a thought. What if Karin was the one to tell Orochimaru about Sasuke, I know it's probably a 1 in a million chance but that just came to me in my head. Lmao sorry a little random. Hm.

[catsi563]

actually thats an interesting contrast.

Karin was the first to see a true gentle Sasuke. the real Sasuke so to speak the one that if hed chosen a different path may have come out in full.

Sakura on the other hand saw an illusion, a false Sasuke who acknowledged her dreams but who didnt exist.

the contrast is very interesitng between the two ladies. each in love with a genuine smile but Sakura not realizing that her genuine smile was narutos

Im even more hopeful now that the bench scene will be brought back into play.

[Serenity Namikaze]

Yep, though I'm not to sure it was really him it could just have been her imagination. If it was just just had a thought. What if Karin was the one to tell Orochimaru about Sasuke, I know it's probably a 1 in a million chance but that just came to me in my head. Lmao sorry a little random. Hm.

Umm, that interesting but I think that Orochimaru's already knew about Sasuke. After all, He was obsess about his brother first and obtaining the sharingan.

actually thats an interesting contrast.

Karin was the first to see a true gentle Sasuke. the real Sasuke so to speak the one that if hed chosen a different path may have come out in full.

Sakura on the other hand saw an illusion, a false Sasuke who acknowledged her dreams but who didnt exist.

the contrast is very interesitng between the two ladies. each in love with a genuine smile but Sakura not realizing that her genuine smile was narutos

Im even more hopeful now that the bench scene will be brought back into play.

Interesting comparaison

Edited by silverserenity, 23 February 2010 - 08:34 PM.

[Broken Figurine]

I think you misunderstand me Broken. She isnt the reaosn for hsi turning evil. She was used to very show very specific moments and to very clearly delinieate those moments from the Sasuke she knew.

the fact that she was in love with him isnt in dispute, and was given even greater credence by his saving her. At the time she was introduced Sasauke wasnt what we would call evil. driven , obsessed , and angry sure but he was focused on revenge and that was very clear, even to the point where he didnt kill a single sound ninja.

yet she was there when he suddenly broke that rule and killed the samaruai that opposed him.

As to orochimaru ill quote ehr databook entry



And the fact that she told off Madara shows she didnt care about Akatsuki either. she followed Sasuke on his quest and no one elses.

So in closing yes there were many keys but Karin was the main key used to showcase the fall.

I didn't say she was the reason he turned evil; now that's just craziness. XD My dispute was the emphasis on her; treating her like she's special 'main, key, etc.' when there were more significant moments showcasing Sasuke's downfall. Yes, she was used, but whether she was the most important is very subjective. I believe her involvement had been too sudden, and once it started not at all surprising, therefore for me she is a mere supplement to what I already knew. What it feel like you and this poster you showed us is trying to do/say is that without Karin, we would not have known the sheer magnitude of his downfall. That she had been that important that without her input, we would be left wondering if he could still be a good guy.

I probably shouldn't go into Karin and her 'feelings', which is also subjective (not undisputable--she may love him but not everyone finds it a pure, honest love) but I'm not too impressed with this idea that if Sasuke could betray many other characters, that Karin is somehow special. Oh, he smiled gently to a girl he saw for what, a moment? Therefore he does so have feelings for her. Then... What was those arguments about part one Sasuke not being capable of such feelings therefore all scenes interpreted as SasuSaku were irrational? =P

In any case, I just can't agree with it. I don't deny she was used to show it, was it as important as it is being made out to be? Meh... We'll see. I'm not very impressed with it; it feels too choppy, undeveloped and selective for me.

[catsi563]

the arguments about Sasuke in part 1 were based on people not understanding the character as it was written.

As to Karin, how you can think her feelings are subjective in anyway is beyond me. Shes made her feleings perfectly clear on more than one occasion.

as to Saskues downfall yes there were many signifigant moments but she was used and this was the point of the post and the essay that she was used to showcase the the most signifigant ones, the turn from no killing to killing, the care of teamates to not caring about teamates. and lastly the caring about Karin in a way different from the rest of taka and he surely did, into someone willing to discard even her.

it is not to say that without Karin we wouldnt have known these things but Kishimoto sensei clearly chose Karin to convey the impact even moreso then any other person.

[Broken Figurine]

That's a bit harsh, don't you think? Oh, you don't agree that Sasuke could love someone romantically after that massacre and the fact he never showed any concrete interest, therefore you don't understand him.

Because not everyone thinks like a SasuKarin fan, or any pairing fan for that reason. I know she loves him, but her basis and the logic behind it is not so obvious and undisputable. She loves him but why? Because he saved her from a bear that one time? Just by what we have seen she hero worshipped him. He was cool, she sniffed his blood and sweat, people were considering her infatuation for him "creepy". Then in a recent span of time she starts acting like she genuinely did love him but why? We never saw him sit down with her, she never thought about how he had suffered a loss similar to her, she never really went in-depth with her feelings for Sasuke beyond his hotness factor. It was just very much her emotional 180 and here, where there was a perfect moment to showcase that oh maybe they spent some quality time together when they were at Orochimaru's, or that she connected with him on a deeper level. All we get is that back in part one he saved her from a bear, so we are to assume that because she saw this hero and goodness in him she fell in love. That feels very odd, considering he hasn't acted that way since we saw them together. Making Sasuke the "good guy" in her heart doesn't make sense to me. You can say all you want how clear-cut it is and that her reasons for loving him are valid, but if I had to listen to everyone who said that about their pairing I'd be shipping everything. Things are allowed to be subjective, casti, not everyone feels the same way about how something is presented in literature.

Again, this is all depending on the point of view. I did not feel that was the pivotal point and again, agree she was a useful factor in showing his omg evilness but it seem too choppy and sudden for me to believe it has that much weight. If it truly does, then I blame the execution of it. It's not to my suiting because it feels too forceful and neglectful of the other factors. Partially because I'm not as interested in the Team Taka and Sasuke relationship as I am the Team 7 and Sasuke relationship/reunion at this point, which I think many of us have been anticipating since early Part Two, but that's just me.

[Miss Soupy]

it is not to say that without Karin we wouldnt have known these things but Kishimoto sensei clearly chose Karin to convey the impact even moreso then any other person.

I guess I have to ask the obvious question of: so what? What does that mean then? It seems like the statement went from 'Karin is special because kishimoto used her in this way' into, 'well not that special, but she was still used'. Is this supposed to be an argument for SasuKari in some way? Or what exactly? Guess I'm just confused.

[catsi563]

No particular argument made. More that I found it to be an interesting notion that she was used in this fashion instead of a member of team 7.

And quite frankly Karin is special alot more special than many people give her credit for. her interactions with Sasuke colored much of Takas appearances and were a focus for Kishimoto as he wrote those appearances and conflicts.

And to cover another topic there is no indication she ever turned a so called emotional 180 her feelings stayed as straight forward as anyones in the manga save Narutos to Sakura have ever done.

[Dreamer]

I believe Kishi's other motive with Karin's "relationship" with Sasuke is to show what could have been if Sakura did leave with him in part one. That Sakura could have just as easily been in Karin's position stabbed, bleeding and abandoned. We may see her come to this realization as well and further display how far Sasuke has fallen.

I second this.

@ Catsi, I think your theory of Karin being a key Sasuke's redemption is a little extreme. The only outcome I see for Psycho Sasuke is death or padded walls for the rest of his life.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 24 February 2010 - 01:00 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

No particular argument made. More that I found it to be an interesting notion that she was used in this fashion instead of a member of team 7.

And quite frankly Karin is special alot more special than many people give her credit for. her interactions with Sasuke colored much of Takas appearances and were a focus for Kishimoto as he wrote those appearances and conflicts.

And to cover another topic there is no indication she ever turned a so called emotional 180 her feelings stayed as straight forward as anyones in the manga save Narutos to Sakura have ever done.

I see. Well, I can't say I really count her as someone special; really, 'special' is in the eye of the beholder, not something that can be proven or disproven. To some people, Hinata is special, to others, she isn't. The only thing Karin has done that was impressive to me was to warn Sakura of Sasukes attack. Her interactions with Sasuke weren't any better than Sakura's interactions with him. He is always indifferent and mean. Her interactions with Suigetsu were more amusing, but mostly a copy of Sakura towards Naruto.