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Advice to Masashi Kishimoto and His Next Manga


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#21 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:31 AM

We have a politics thread. You can also make a current events thread. Take it there.

 

My apologies, Captain.

 

The first and foremost advice to him is not to put his foot in his mount. Never give in to temptation from his editors and rabid fans that cares less about his story. Three, I highly recommend that he either works with a writer or hire someone to do the writing and just focus what he does best. Illustrating.



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#22 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:03 AM

 

My apologies, Captain.

 

The first and foremost advice to him is not to put his foot in his mount. Never give in to temptation from his editors and rabid fans that cares less about his story. Three, I highly recommend that he either works with a writer or hire someone to do the writing and just focus what he does best. Illustrating.

 

Agreed on all that for sure. It's why he had failed near the end of Naruto, and in the end, it will haunt him for the rest of his life and for those of us who will actually never let him forget how he royally screwed his own series because he had caved in, and didn't trust himself in the end to make whatever he wanted to happen to happen, in addition to trying to make excuses for his mistakes rather than take responsibility.

 

For a dvice on my end, he should begin building a world bible with the kind of rules and such to his story, so that he doesn't lose his way or just switch things willy-nilly to please people rather than satisfy his own story.



#23 rikakim94

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 10:47 PM

 

Agreed on all that for sure. It's why he had failed near the end of Naruto, and in the end, it will haunt him for the rest of his life and for those of us who will actually never let him forget how he royally screwed his own series because he had caved in, and didn't trust himself in the end to make whatever he wanted to happen to happen, in addition to trying to make excuses for his mistakes rather than take responsibility.

 

For a dvice on my end, he should begin building a world bible with the kind of rules and such to his story, so that he doesn't lose his way or just switch things willy-nilly to please people rather than satisfy his own story.

 

My advice to kishi is to never write again if he is not capable of trusting himself or making good morals and themes that make actual sense then theres no reason to be a author unless he wants to be a really mediocre writer.  :ermm: He should just stick with art and improve on that. Naruto was okay at first because of his first ok editor if it wasn't for him the manga would have gotten cancelled within a week. Naruto was NEVER that great.



#24 Analyzer

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 03:12 PM

 

My advice to kishi is to never write again if he is not capable of trusting himself or making good morals and themes that make actual sense then theres no reason to be a author unless he wants to be a really mediocre writer.  :ermm: He should just stick with art and improve on that. Naruto was okay at first because of his first ok editor if it wasn't for him the manga would have gotten cancelled within a week. Naruto was NEVER that great.

 

This isn't very constructive, and has a few problems.

 

First, a lot of the roots of major issues in Naruto were under the first editor, and second, some of the arguably greatest work was done right after the first editor's departure. Thirdly, there is no real way to source what the editor did and didn't contribute.



#25 Gravenimage

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:19 AM

My only advise to Kishimoto will be to retire from writing manga and let the true professionals handle it.


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#26 Analyzer

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:22 PM


 

My only advise to Kishimoto will be to retire from writing manga and let the true professionals handle it.

 

...So, making it to the top three with a manga you make that is enormously successful is not being a professional? 



#27 Nate River

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:02 AM

My only advise to Kishimoto will be to retire from writing manga and let the true professionals handle it.

 

This post and those like it frustrate me. 

 

First, the entire point of this thread was to provide advice in good faith. Its easy to tear down, so maybe advice could be offered that could produce a better product either with Naruto or with future works. What you, and pretty much every poster (except for one or two) that came after James has posted snark like this, vitriol such as illnevergiveup3, or the almost equally useless don't listen to your editors. 

 

I've been as critical as anyone on this board, so I am not trying to suggested people cannot criticize him. However, we have two debate threads and countless other topics (whether character or subject) where people can complain all day long. Is it really so much to ask that people not do that here too? Are you guys complete unable to offer actual, legitimate, good faith advice about writing?

 

The point is to try to offer means of improvement. Instead you posted the equivalent of Homer Simpson telling his kids: "You tried your best, and you failed miserably. The Lesson is: never try."

 

Seriously, if people have nothing constructive to offer can they not post in this thread? There are plenty of places on the board to just complain or debate.

 

I feel bad for LuckyChi7, I can't imagine this is what she had in mind. 



#28 LuckyChi7

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:03 AM

 
This post and those like it frustrate me. 
 
First, the entire point of this thread was to provide advice in good faith. Its easy to tear down, so maybe advice could be offered that could produce a better product either with Naruto or with future works. What you, and pretty much every poster (except for one or two) that came after James has posted snark like this, vitriol such as illnevergiveup3, or the almost equally useless don't listen to your editors. 
 
I've been as critical as anyone on this board, so I am not trying to suggested people cannot criticize him. However, we have two debate threads and countless other topics (whether character or subject) where people can complain all day long. Is it really so much to ask that people not do that here too? Are you guys complete unable to offer actual, legitimate, good faith advice about writing?
 
The point is to try to offer means of improvement. Instead you posted the equivalent of Homer Simpson telling his kids: "You tried your best, and you failed miserably. The Lesson is: never try."
 
Seriously, if people have nothing constructive to offer can they not post in this thread? There are plenty of places on the board to just complain or debate.
 
I feel bad for LuckyChi7, I can't imagine this is what she had in mind. 


I actually have to agree with you, i mean I've had my fair share of complaints when it comes to Kishi, and I just figured why not look at things at face value and see what Kishi could improve on. Given that I've been working on my own story for the last 3 years so to me a little writer to writer advice wouldn't hurt. I kinda hoped that's would thread would be just general advice that Kishi could use to improve upon as a writer, but oh well I guess.

Oh just a little FYI Nate, I'm a guy lol 😂

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#29 Nate River

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:02 AM

I actually have to agree with you, i mean I've had my fair share of complaints when it comes to Kishi, and I just figured why not look at things at face value and see what Kishi could improve on. Given that I've been working on my own story for the last 3 years so to me a little writer to writer advice wouldn't hurt. I kinda hoped that's would thread would be just general advice that Kishi could use to improve upon as a writer, but oh well I guess.

Oh just a little FYI Nate, I'm a guy lol

 

Whoops. Sorry about that. I'm not sure why I thought that.

 

I enjoy storytelling as an artform and like discussing it. I was thrilled when you created this topic as it was a chance to do that in the context of Naruto. 



#30 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:31 AM

This post and those like it frustrate me. 
 
First, the entire point of this thread was to provide advice in good faith. Its easy to tear down, so maybe advice could be offered that could produce a better product either with Naruto or with future works. What you, and pretty much every poster (except for one or two) that came after James has posted snark like this, vitriol such as illnevergiveup3, or the almost equally useless don't listen to your editors. 
 
I've been as critical as anyone on this board, so I am not trying to suggested people cannot criticize him. However, we have two debate threads and countless other topics (whether character or subject) where people can complain all day long. Is it really so much to ask that people not do that here too? Are you guys complete unable to offer actual, legitimate, good faith advice about writing?
 
The point is to try to offer means of improvement. Instead you posted the equivalent of Homer Simpson telling his kids: "You tried your best, and you failed miserably. The Lesson is: never try."
 
Seriously, if people have nothing constructive to offer can they not post in this thread? There are plenty of places on the board to just complain or debate.
 
I feel bad for LuckyChi7, I can't imagine this is what she had in mind.

What I've said is my good faith advice. I'm being realistic. The man had 15 years to take this manga in an infinite number of directions and spent a good majority of them abandoning plot lines left and right and the latter third lifting ideas out of message boards and YouTube videos apparently. He just doesn't have the creative discipline you need to write the kind of epic Naruto was intended to be. His problems all boil down to mentality. Every single problem referenced in this thread can be traced back to that. I'd much rather read a long term story where he did the artwork and his brother did the writing. Both could focus on what they're best at. Could be a real dream team!

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 14 November 2017 - 04:38 AM.

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#31 BlackShirtGuy

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:32 AM

I agree with @ThroughWithLove , Kishimoto decided money and profit over artistic integrity, not only that, he betrayed a series that he spent more than 15 years working on, if he isn't commited to that kind of work I doubt any short manga series he made will even sell well.
Let's face it, Kishi conned us all, he conned the non-pairing fans, the NS and SK fans, to this day, SP is conning (or at least tryiing) to the NH and SS fanbase in the stupid sequel. If there's one thing I got clear from the ending and everything that came after is that Kishi never cared that much for his own series, he only saw it as a mere job, which we can't really blame him for, but we don't necessarilly have to agree with that or respect the "artist" if he care more about his series profit than what series was as an artform.
What I mean is, if people want to give advice to Kishi to stop writing I don't necessarilly disagree with that, think of it like if you were robbed, you would want the police to jail the culprit, right? Well many people were (or at least feel) robbed of all the investment they put with this series only to be not only dissapointed but to be told that they "misread" the whole thing.
I don't want Kishi to stop writing, I'm pretty sure with a good editor he can make a something at the very least decent, but if he is not commited to tell the story he wants to tell and let other people dictate what he should write, he's better off just being an editor. 


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#32 Analyzer

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:35 PM

Can we make constructive criticism, and not state conspiracy-level things that are unprovable (Conning, and the like). I'm not going to post as I usually do about why these things are baseless, just a gentle request to keep to the topic. 


Edited by Analyzer, 14 November 2017 - 04:36 PM.


#33 winter-serenade

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:37 PM

My advice as non-biased as possible is pretty hard to give, considering how much power editors have in making manga. Artists don't have their own freedom in some instances. I would say to plan everything out before pen hits paper, but the editors might disagree with something and make the process longer. I agree with LuckyChi's OP as well.

I also think that Kishinoto should stick with his ideas. For example, I remember him saying that Hinata got more popular and popular, so he gradually made her the heroine instead of Sakura. Whether that's a reason why NaruSaku wasn't made canon or not, I'm not entirely sure. But regardless, that's a big no no. YOU are the creator. YOU chose who the heroine is or not. Letting your editor control your story is one thing, but letting fans control your story is another. Don't be a puppet this time, Kishimoto. I don't hate you, but I can't say I'm content with some of the ways you've written your story.

#34 Analyzer

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:51 PM

To elaborate on the last part, it was suggested he -could- change the heroine based on that, but Kishimoto stuck with Sakura, despite his frustrations. He also said he planned things, so in fairness, He does not have issues with "editor control", or "fan control", as is a popular myth. 


Edited by Analyzer, 14 November 2017 - 08:52 PM.


#35 winter-serenade

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:54 PM

To elaborate on the last part, it was suggested he -could- change the heroine based on that, but Kishimoto stuck with Sakura, despite his frustrations. He also said he planned things, so in fairness, He does not have issues with "editor control", or "fan control", as is a popular myth.


Actually, it's no myth. There have been numerous ideas Kishimoto had. However, his editors said no. For example, he wanted to gradually introduce characters in the beginning, but his editor wanted to hurry up and get them all in. Thus, the Chunnin Exams. And Kishimoto did in fact say that he wanted to gradually make Hinata the heroine because of her growing popularity.

Kishimoto was not in 100% control. This is no myth, so my previous point still stands.

#36 Gravenimage

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:13 AM

What I've said is my good faith advice. I'm being realistic. The man had 15 years to take this manga in an infinite number of directions and spent a good majority of them abandoning plot lines left and right and the latter third lifting ideas out of message boards and YouTube videos apparently. He just doesn't have the creative discipline you need to write the kind of epic Naruto was intended to be. His problems all boil down to mentality. Every single problem referenced in this thread can be traced back to that. I'd much rather read a long term story where he did the artwork and his brother did the writing. Both could focus on what they're best at. Could be a real dream team!

 

This^ I can't give him any positive advice because he screwed up his own life's work so badly and I'm pretty sure he knows it. He will never admit it because the damage has been done. So many people have repeated dozens of times that Naruto had a lot of potential to become the best series in a long time but not anymore. If there's any advice I would give Kishimoto it would be to have never made Hinata had a crush on Naruto or even shy. He should have made her into an independent person wanting to become strong, that's it. He should have ,made Sakura moved on from Sasuke when he first called her annoying (I think it was chapter 3). Her crush should have been erased and decide to be there for Naruto more. More advice would have been to follow his own original idea instead of agreeing with everything his editors tell him or even listen to Pierot. He should have give the middle finger to all NH fans saying I want NS because it's the pairing I've been working on since the very beginning, not this denial contradicting BS he keeps saying in interviews.

 

So please Kishimoto don't write another manga because you'll be making the same mistake" history repeats itself" so just retire.


Edited by Gravenimage, 15 November 2017 - 02:14 AM.

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#37 Analyzer

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:50 PM

 

This^ I can't give him any positive advice because he screwed up his own life's work so badly and I'm pretty sure he knows it. He will never admit it because the damage has been done. So many people have repeated dozens of times that Naruto had a lot of potential to become the best series in a long time but not anymore. If there's any advice I would give Kishimoto it would be to have never made Hinata had a crush on Naruto or even shy. He should have made her into an independent person wanting to become strong, that's it. He should have ,made Sakura moved on from Sasuke when he first called her annoying (I think it was chapter 3). Her crush should have been erased and decide to be there for Naruto more. More advice would have been to follow his own original idea instead of agreeing with everything his editors tell him or even listen to Pierot. He should have give the middle finger to all NH fans saying I want NS because it's the pairing I've been working on since the very beginning, not this denial contradicting BS he keeps saying in interviews.

 

So please Kishimoto don't write another manga because you'll be making the same mistake" history repeats itself" so just retire.

 

I still fail to see how getting a manga in the big three, a rivalry with one of the best of the industry (Even if I'm not a fan of one piece), with an honoring of your work in one of his chapters when you make the last one, and spawning a huge franchise deserves any verdict of don't write another manga.

 

Naruto is one of the best series. It's not everyone's cup of tea. I'm certain there are positive remarks you could make if you thought about it.

 

Maybe Art-Style if writing doesn't work?

 

Actually, it's no myth. There have been numerous ideas Kishimoto had. However, his editors said no. For example, he wanted to gradually introduce characters in the beginning, but his editor wanted to hurry up and get them all in. Thus, the Chunnin Exams. And Kishimoto did in fact say that he wanted to gradually make Hinata the heroine because of her growing popularity.

Kishimoto was not in 100% control. This is no myth, so my previous point still stands.

 

Yep, the Chuunin Exams part is true. It's also arguably the second best arc in Naruto. The lack of development does bring underlining issues to the manga later on, but it's Kishimoto's talent that keeps it at bay. It's not really an instance of "Editoral control" mind, because Kishimoto agrees with this.

 

As for the next, Kishimoto wondered if he should do so because of growing popularity but he did not say he did so because of this reason. Certainly though he ultimately did give her more attention. This though, is clear personal decision-making, not editor control, or even fan-control, rather it's responding to reception, which I do not think should be negatively lighted either.

 

Thus, I believe its better to say editor's have influence over control, which is pretty normal and shouldn't be highlighted as a bad thing. 


Edited by Analyzer, 15 November 2017 - 01:52 PM.





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