First paragraph: Sadly I do agree with that statement. Not just happened in Naruto, but also any media franchise. I had seen this in Sonic the Hedgehog, especially with the recent games (exclude Mania). Recently, Soul Calibur VI is getting flack today with the recent balance patch and many players hated it because the team added more buffs to characters such as Seong Mina and Ivy (but they were understandable changes, especially for Mina because they want to fix her CLOSE RANGE abilities, not overall as her long-range attacks were already good) and many Siegfried and Nightmare players were extremely angry when they had certain tactics that can send opponents out of the ring due to a glitch/bug and the team caught it. I stated this earlier, its fine to accept some suggestions/ideas from fans but DON'T accept everything! Then, as you stated James, it becomes catering.
Or just look at how people are NEVER-ENDING in their complaints when it comes to things like Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.. Whatever they lose to is "overpowered" and everything they use that doesn't instantly win them matches is "underpowered" and they demand changes to be made, as if developers will change it ONLY for them (if "underpowered") or for everyone EXCEPT them (if "overpowered"). Then, changes are done and as a result, the balance that was originally there is completely thrown off, and NO ONE, including those who complained, are happy and it ends up messing things up for everyone. Personally, out of all such complaints, I only really agreed with a few of them...
I wasn't planning on doing this video, but talking about it with my best friend kinda inspired me to it, and because no else has really talked about the pairing in this particular matter.
Enjoy you guys, Odds are I'll do one for NaruSaku (why wouldn't I? It was our OTP after all)
Gonna leave this as a tease for the next Naruto video possibly!!
What do you mean? Of course children should learn to accept people are better than them through their birth, and that bettering oneself through dedication and training is a bad joke. i mean, just look at that loser Rock Lee. No, they should realize the power of genetics in an attempt to create an ubermensch.
Seriously though, what they're preaching is usually the kind of thing the heroes fight against. You'd need to be Mitsuo Fukuda levels of tone deaf to think otherwise.
What do you mean? Of course children should learn to accept people are better than them through their birth, and that bettering oneself through dedication and training is a bad joke. i mean, just look at that loser Rock Lee. No, they should realize the power of genetics in an attempt to create an ubermensch.
Seriously though, what they're preaching is usually the kind of thing the heroes fight against. You'd need to be Mitsuo Fukuda levels of tone deaf to think otherwise.
Isn't this what the Nazi believed? A genetic superior race was keen. Are we saying Naruto is a nazi?
OMG. NARUTO IS HITLER!!!!
Alucard:
"Well Well Well....I leave for a day and the Catholics are crusading while the Nazis are invading."
Edited by James S Cassidy, 01 February 2019 - 05:08 PM.
Sasuke always ignored Sakura or degraded her self worth because she has nothing to do with his goals, and he doesn't even get why she had feelings for him in the first place. He outright said that to Naruto and Kakashi after he have Sakura a particularly cruel illusion to put her out of consciousness. How could think that relationships like that are romantic or even functional after all that?
This to me is a major downfall of this story. How on earth did Sakura wind up with Sasuke after that brutal speech and then punching her through the chest. It's friggin gross. Downright abusive. And Naruto stands by and lets it happen with a 'Hey man, don'tcha think you're going a little to far?' and leaves her there in her trauma. (Seriously — and NH-ers they say Sakura is the abusive one. What is wrong with them?) But the fact that Sakura ends up with that same person in the end, with no explanation of why, no apology or apparent transformation of character.... It's just awful.
More than awful actually, because it's a violation of the promises Kishi made when he set out with this story. That Naruto loved Sakura, and that she was worthy of his love, and that she would someday come to see the main character the way the author saw him from day one. Instead, Sakura is linked up with the one person who is most abusive to her in the world, harming her and humiliating her over and over again. And as readers, there's nothing we can do. We were wrong. Kishi broke his promises. And in the end, he didn't care about any of them.
The fact that Sakura wound up with Sasuke after all that, and with no explanation at all, is Kishi just flipping the bird at his readers.
In Defense of Kishimoto sesei he was following a fairly basic romantic formula for most anime
MC has crush which turns to love on MF
MF has unrequited crush on unobtainable lancer
moe side character has unrequited secret crush on MC
MC and MF grow closer over many chapters as MF finally realizes lancer is not to be and MC has always cared
moe SC confesses her love to MC and then sacrafices herself in some grand gesture dying or barely surviving and falling into the background to do some important work
MC and MF finally confess and get together at the end
its formulaic but he was following it and doing it fairly well, as ive said elsehwere I think he just gave up somewhere along the way and let people take control from him
Yes - you're right. It was following a format. Formulaic, yes. But it was also based on set promises from the beginning, and the belief that they would one day be resolved. And those promises (that Naruto would get his girl, defeat the baddie and become Kage) were the only thing that kept readers hanging on till the end. They weren't resolved, as we now know, and the only thing for certain is that Kishi really must have given up along the way.
Oh he apologized. With the single most effing half-assed sorry that I've ever read or seen, then Sakura is more than willing to jump into his arms again and scream out "MARRY ME SASUKE-KUUUUUUUUUN!!!!!!!!!" Shallow much? More than NH taking a dismantling of the entire story in an epic retcon fanfiction of a movie to have them marry, Sasuke and Sakura is an abusive and disgusting relationship. It is the part of the love triangle and romantic false setup to bring together the true loves together in any medium of fiction and story telling that is about true love and romance. Yet the "true love was BLOWN OFF" to make this fallacy of relationship come true because Hinata must get "her due reward" and Sakura must be married to the "anthropomorphic personification of male sexiness" that is Sasuke Uchiha. Does that sound the type of happy ending or even satisfying conclusion that anyone would want to have? The only type of person that actually, seriously, supports the relationship SS has are those that delude themselves to thinking that girl getting the actual type of bad boy that would physically and verbally/emotionally abuse her is romantic,those that enjoy seeing Sakura suffer, or those that that don't give two $#!ts about anything in the story except Naruto "nekkid cuddling" with his true love Hinata and the only obstacle for that, Sakura is out of the way.
This to me is a major downfall of this story. How on earth did Sakura wind up with Sasuke after that brutal speech and then punching her through the chest. It's friggin gross. Downright abusive. And Naruto stands by and lets it happen with a 'Hey man, don'tcha think you're going a little to far?' and leaves her there in her trauma. (Seriously — and NH-ers they say Sakura is the abusive one. What is wrong with them?) But the fact that Sakura ends up with that same person in the end, with no explanation of why, no apology or apparent transformation of character.... It's just awful.
More than awful actually, because it's a violation of the promises Kishi made when he set out with this story. That Naruto loved Sakura, and that she was worthy of his love, and that she would someday come to see the main character the way the author saw him from day one. Instead, Sakura is linked up with the one person who is most abusive to her in the world, harming her and humiliating her over and over again. And as readers, there's nothing we can do. We were wrong. Kishi broke his promises. And in the end, he didn't care about any of them.
The fact that Sakura wound up with Sasuke after all that, and with no explanation at all, is Kishi just flipping the bird at his readers.
Yes - you're right. It was following a format. Formulaic, yes. But it was also based on set promises from the beginning, and the belief that they would one day be resolved. And those promises (that Naruto would get his girl, defeat the baddie and become Kage) were the only thing that kept readers hanging on till the end. They weren't resolved, as we now know, and the only thing for certain is that Kishi really must have given up along the way.
And what makes things worse is that if you take the way things are now and go back through the story...it's so easy to apply all the disgusting aspects of how things get changed, able to easily rationalize how it actually can make sense, and it completely taints and destroys the entire preceding story, which only further exposes how weak the foundation was.
Other current franchises could have potentially poor endings but NOT keep fans from enjoying everything else that lead up to it. Like if Avengers: Endgame were to end up being a disappointment somehow and, for some reason, just completely changes characters around and such, it would be a big downer, sure, and even rage-inducing, but it still wouldn't be too difficult to enjoy most of the preceding ten years of MCU films and keeping Endgame separate from it.
You just...can't really do that with Naruto because of how much it's shoved in your face coupled with the BS piling on constantly afterwards by its very mangaka alongside SP, Shueisha, editors, etc.
Yes - you're right. It was following a format. Formulaic, yes. But it was also based on set promises from the beginning, and the belief that they would one day be resolved. And those promises (that Naruto would get his girl, defeat the baddie and become Kage) were the only thing that kept readers hanging on till the end. They weren't resolved, as we now know, and the only thing for certain is that Kishi really must have given up along the way.
I often like to think it was the pressure from fans and Studio Pierrot that made things like they were, plus the fact Kishi likely just shut down thanks in no short part to his father passing away, and how that had to be a real punt to him, but it still is not an excuse to ignore the promises that we'd been shown and ignore all his story told just because of it. Look. I know how it feels to lose people or pets close to you. I get it.
But you gotta work through it in anything, especially in creativity. Sometimes, you just take a step away, and then come back feeling stronger. And I know for a fact, because of this betrayal, I am now SO hesitant to want to believe in anything I'm shown in an anime or manga, since this isn't the first time it's happened to me with stuff the story has shown and ignored previously done, but it hurts the most because you could TELL it wasn't gonna be that way thanks to the story itself.
It feels like you're adding a ton of context to that scene which didn't really exist. Like if it had been the Cell Games it makes perfect sense that she would disregard Goku. But that happened in the Saiyan saga. There was none of that bitterness over "Gohan having to fight to save the world when that's Goku's job",yet. He had been dead and it was Piccolo who decided that Gohan should fight. And Gohan wasn't strong at all last time she saw him. You're meant to laugh at her behavior, not award her mom points. Toriyama drew her as looking almost psychotic in that scene rather than actually worried about Gohan (and Goku, who had done nothing to merit her disregard yet)
And it is precisely that which I dislike about her character. She became a punchline when she was a normal person in DB.
Perhaps, but in my mind it makes sense that way. Even so, that just makes the case for her going to Gohan even stronger, because as you said, the last time she saw him he couldn't fight at all.
And Chi-Chi was NEVER a normal person. Some kid made a promise to marry her when she was 11 or 12, and holds on to it. I don't know about you, but I think most would have forgotten it by the time they become adults.
For the record, I really don't care all that much about Chi-Chi, I just think of her as being there to give Goku kids. Another difference between her and Hinata: the staff doesn't build up Chi-Chi to be more than she actually is.
What's funny about the bolded because I think fans are still in the "fandom"-land when multi and non-canon shipping is involved. Don't why Sakura is considered a "hoe" when all of that stuff is NOT even canon. Just plain crack.
I don't know about you guys (I'm going OOC mod for a second), but now-at-days, I'm viewing Hinata as that the "somehow sidepiece/side hoe that became main piece" with some unnecessary help and in not in a good way. And the man (Naruto) is/was dead set in her grasp ala target to get what SHE wants, (and fellas, there's a common statement which is true but it is too raunchy here to type, us men CAN get stupid when sex is the main topic). If this girl's a real person, I'm ready to go Black Twitter (which I don't use) on her. I know that this is a totally different view because this is the West but the East does get some influences since everything, everyone and their mama's business is up on the internet. With social media and reality TV the norm today, as I said before the East can be influential which may cause the whole fiasco with this franchise in regards to shipping. And I think those fans has those views in their mindset while posting.
If Sakura is obsessed with Sasuke, how can she be a hoe? Do they even know what that word is SUPPOSED to mean? Heck, using that word literally DESTROYS their argument about Sakura being Sasuke-obsessed.
If Sakura really behaved like a so-called hoe, then yes, that WOULD be a problem. Except that's not the reality of the story. So congratulations Anti-NS. You use a slur incorrectly in context of canon to justify it, and in doing so denied it entirely.
It is mind boggling that the very thing they hate about Sakura is only that way BECAUSE they desired her to be that way. That's like feeding someone tons and tons of cakes and candies just so you can purposely make fun of them for being fat.
Or even worse when some people purposely set me up for failure just so they can say how bad I am and how better they are in comparison.
Whenever a company or media tries to "please the fans," they always end up in failure. When you do exactly what the fans demand you lose because some people will complain even if they get exactly what they wanted. Also, it is still a question I never quite get a good answer to. What was the point of Naruto the Last if NH already had enough support in the canon in the first place? They just can't answer this question which deep down they know that Naruto the Last and the Hinata worshiping really was baiting them to buy their crap. This is why NH has no real value to the point that even some NH fans don't want apart of it. The only way you can enjoy it is if you are so die-hard that this is all you think about.
It doesn't feel like a victory...it feels more like catering. You didn't earn it. Someone else gave it to you. This is why they pretend it is something it is not. This is why when the truth hits them they reject it entirely because they can't understand that they didn't earn that respect. People are just catering to you for your money.
As in the words of Pretty Woman
"Stores are never nice to people, they are nice to credit cards" and you see it on an everyday basis where people would never look at you twice, but as soon as they learn you have money or something of value that they want...all of a sudden they are super nice to you and want to suck on your feet. Heck, they believe Kishimoto really had an interest in NH which, if you really look at the interviews, shows that he didn't care for pairings at all. The only thing he was really adamant about is the dynamic relationship between Naruto and Sasuke.
As for the Anti-NSers, I always find it laughable when they pull the whole "Naruto and Sakura see each other as brother and sister or as teammates." So is that why Naruto asked Sakura on date...because he saw her as a sister.
Like these "reasons" are just downright insulting
"Naruto always loved Hinata. He just didn't know it yet."
"Naruto saw Sakura as a teammate and a sister."
"Naruto and Sakura are practically cousins and cousins should never date."
This reminds me of a discussion about Boruto and Salad. If Boruto is Naruto's kid would that make him the reincarnation of Asura? Would this make Salad the reincarnation of Indra? Does that mean that BorutoXSalad cannot happen cause they really would be technically brother and sister or is their something I am missing that somehow it doesn't apply to them?"
Someone once gave me the argument that "It makes sense that Naruto and Hinata got together because since Sakura has no clan traits, the goal is to make the strongest ninja of all time and mixing Uzumaki and Hyuga blood would achieve that."
OMG, this argument is just....where to begin? Okay, so first off....are you admitting that Naruto does not love Hinata truthfully and was just trying to find a means to create the strongest child? Does that mean that Naruto is just using Hinata as an experiment to cross breed to make the "perfect being?" Wow, I didn't know Naruto was a Nazi. Second, if this was the case, why didn't Sasuke try to procreate with Hinata instead? Kishimoto confirmed that if an Uchiha and a Hyuga crossbreed the child would have one byakugan and one Sharingan, so wouldn't Sasuke want to go for that as well?
Damn, this remaining fandom is just disgusting.
"[Shinachiku] NS kid would have no special abilities, so he would be a weak child ninja."
No BS this is an actual argument I got.
I nearly banged my head against the wall.
So we know that the original premise (before it was abandoned with prophecies and reincarnations) of Naruto was that people with no natural talent can succeed if they worked hard enough. Not only would this be totally emphasized with Shinachiku, but it put his son as the ultimate epitome of that premise. Shina would be so hard working that it would make Rock Lee look like a Tai-Bo video. (No offense to Rock Lee. He is my boy.)
But Shinachiku would have different talents. He could inherit his father's massive chakra reserve combined with his Mother's natural affinity for absolute chakra control. There would no jutsu outside of Kekkei Genkai that he could not master with a little hardwork.
Shinachiku would be like All-Might in a way in which he can master all-for-one so naturally. His natural talent is to be able to pick up anything without the use of copying techniques. He would be like Ikki Kurogane who doesn't have an overpowered Blazer, but uses their own opponents weakness against them.
Shinachiku would essentially be "Chivalry of a failed Ninja," which sounds pretty bad ass and FAR more entertaining idea than Boruto "I am so broken that the plot revolves around me" Uzumaki who is just handed everything on a silver platter because "He is the son of a Uzumaki and Hyuga."
Tell me that wouldn't be an awesome premise?
Which is a fine writing formula and easy to manage, but issues arrived when they tried to switch all of that from Sakura to Hinata. Many fans will say that he wanted to something different. He didn't. All they did was used the same formula, but tried to change the MF from one to the other.
It used to be that Sakura was the first girl Naruto knew and liked, but they tried to retcon it to Hinata was the first girl he met and liked and it makes no sense especially when you try to go back and read what is already there. It makes Naruto really look like a scumbag like he purposely ignored her.
Dragonball Super Broly movie is doing this now.
Since they retconed essentially Goku's origin story, it creates horrible retcons that kind of blow apart the already established canon tH``at Dragonball and Dragonball Z had
I was listening to Kory and Co-Host 3000 on Spill back in the day, when they were talking about how Sam Rami did not like Venom but was forced to put him in the movie. Co-Host then said this:
"And that is why you NEVER listen to the fans, because it never works! You wanted Venom, BOY, you got him!"
A lot of times fans don't have the story's best interest at heart. I mean, if studios looked at every single fan, they would be seeing some silly and downright weird kitten. Imagine if Sheishua decided Naruto got a harem, because there are fans who genuinely think Naruto deserves one for everything he's been through. What if they looked at those fans on DeviantArt who have a weight gain fetish? Or diaper fetish? They would be FOOLS to cater to those fans.
Sonic Boom recently made fun of the Sonic fanbase, with Sonic being tied down by an obsessive fan who forced him to listen to his fanfiction. I wish other companies would take jabs at their fans like that.
Sadly, I think Kishimoto and others who worked for him were taken completely off guard by social media and the change in technology, and didn't take the time to realize that the posts they saw don't always reflect reality.
As for NS vs NH child to continue the series, it's no difference to me. Naruto should NEVER have had a sequel to being with. If the theme was the next generation surpasses the Last, I feel like that's a story told. You give us a weak child, it will be hard to keep that theme going. You give us a strong one, then the process of keeping with this theme only becomes even more ridiculous.
If a sequel is dependent on the protagonist being weak or strong, to me that there is already a red flag why you shouldn't make one.
I think it's also worth pointing out that no rules are given to the genetics of Naruto. In real-life, genetics and breeding is complicated. People with some desirable traits often carry the potential for serious problems in the future, And if you hyper focus on only one or two traits, you could actually make the offspring susceptible to problems. Many pure-bred dogs can have predisposed problems because most of the traits selected were for show, and came at the cost of better genetic health. Some Spaniels have a condition where if injured in the head, their brain gets disconnected. Deafness is prominent in Dalmations. English Bulldogs as we know them today can almost NEVER give birth without veterinary health because their giant jaws came at the price of smaller hips.
So, Kishi could have just easily written that a child with Uzumaki and Hyuuga DNA could be powerful, but is more likely to be born with Down Syndrome.
And let's not forget that in DragonBall, Sayajin Human hybrids are often more powerful than many pure-blooded Sayajins, when by most fan-logic they shouldn't be.
Inuyasha is half demon, and is often portrayed as weaker than most high-level pure bred demons. Yet Dante is also by all means a Hanyou, and is touted as having the powers of both worlds.
So yeah, looking at hybridization in fiction, this claim is kitten.
Isn't this what the Nazi believed? A genetic superior race was keen. Are we saying Naruto is a nazi?
OMG. NARUTO IS HITLER!!!!
Alucard:
"Well Well Well....I leave for a day and the Catholics are crusading while the Nazis are invading."
What, you didn't see that coming? He had blue eyes and blond hair (seriously, I've been joking about this for years).
1. it was more like Toriyama DID NOT WANT Goku to marry Bulma, so he made a new character to be Goku's wife. All things considered, Toriyama did what he wanted to do and did not care what fans thought. Any author or story maker should be like that unless it is a genuine critique to make their stories better. but that is not the fans' job, it is the editors'. On that note, WHAT KIND OF EDITOR would tell an author on how to write their story for character bias?
2. They either are ignorant of the actual meaning of the word or they don't care. In any case, they want to degrade Sakura and push forward their "Hinata is queen-goddess" agenda. Everything that they have argued for in Hinata's favour, every time they say "Hinata is so strong so selfless, so kind" is to make her look better because Naruto deserves such a woman. "And screw DEVELOPING a girl into that kind of woman" they think, she must be that from the get go, so "by god", Hinata is that woman even though she isn't strong and selfless, not to mention they confuse shyness and timidity with kindness. Hinata never showed strength or determination to fight unless Naruto is involved i.e. her match with Neji and 2 second scuffle with Pain, she is not selfless or kind because does she SHOW any consideration and thought to someone that is not Naruto? I can't recall personally. She personally hands Naruto a cream that does nothing after his match with Kiba, and sure she may have given the cream to the doctors to use on Kiba but again that cream did NOTHING because Kiba was hospitalized so what is a damn simple ointment for cuts and bruises going to do? In contrast Sakura shows she cares about others, and her kindness doesn't extend to only her first crush (Sasuke) or her best friends ( Ino, and the man that she actually loves, shown by her behaviour in general that is, Naruto) but she shows concern to Shikamaru, Hinata, Rock Lee, and even a small helpless crying girl. If Hinata was actually kind and selfless like her fanatics make her out to be, she would show thoughtfulness and consideration not only to the man she is crushing heavily on but also to others, especially when they selflessly do something that cannot be measured in value for her. Neji died for her, and she was "getting wet in her lady parts" for holding Naruto's "manly hand". (HA) Or how about when she was only focusing on knitting Naruto a scarf and being jealous of Kushina's scarf when her Sister was MISSING HER EYES and was blind? If she was STRONG like her fanatics say then she would fight for reasons other that for "I want to prove myself to Naruto-kun! Notice me Naruto-kun! GET AWAY FROM MY NARUTO-KUN!!" Ultimately my point is the w/h word or s word if used on Sakura is to degrade her and make Hinata look better, nothing more
3. first part. I bring back up my point 1.
And YES Naruto did not need a sequel at all because for there to still be a story, there has to be conflict. If Naruto had FULFILLED his destined role then there should be no conflict because Naruto is "the child of prophecy" that brings world peace and stops war, blah-de blah-de blah-de blah etc. SO TO MAKE A SEQUEL with a STORY, he would have to FAIL as "Boruto" can attest to, plus he would have to be VERY DAMN USELESS for there to be a conflict at all given all the power he got at the end of his own series, again as "Boruto" can attest to.
Fictional genetics, I don't really care to debate about the logic of it or rules, because real-life consistencies regarding that does not apply to anime or even other sources of fiction. Even the most well thought of concepts in that regard still have holes in their logic so no use in talking about it or we'd be debating for a LOOOOOONG time. For instance, even in My Hero Academia the genetics of quirks (the superpowers of that setting that is) are logically sound mostly, but then you have genes blending in together to make new powers or have a child inherit both of their parent's genes co-dominantly, therefore gaining both Parent's powers at once, when again that does not really apply to real life genetics. And as you have stated, hybrids in fiction, Anime especially, is an unending bouncing between being weaker due to being half-blooded or being stronger DESPITE being half-blooded. Point is, if we really want to go into how genetics in Naruto does not make sense, then truth be told genetics has always been about acceptable breaks from reality as it is said, more or less in fiction so that's whatever.
Edited by Phantom_999, 17 February 2019 - 03:33 AM.
And YES Naruto did not need a sequel at all because for there to still be a story, there has to be conflict. If Naruto had FULFILLED his destined role then there should be no conflict because Naruto is "the child of prophecy" that brings world peace and stops war, blah blah blah etc. SO TO MAKE A SEQUEL with a STORY, he would have to FAIL as "Boruto" can attest to, plus he would have to be VERY DAMN USELESS for there to be a conflict at all given all the power he got at the end of his own series, again as "Boruto" can attest to.
The very first pages of the very first "Boruto" chapter.
Well as long as its way after Hinatas death then I would be okay with it but a lot needs to happen for this to be done right.
A lot needs to happen for it to be done at all. For starters the manga events would have to actually progress. Then Sakura would have to be at the forefront of events instead of being a completely empty background character. Then she would actually have to do something that she can die in the process of instead of doing absolutely nothing. Not very likely.
I was listening to Kory and Co-Host 3000 on Spill back in the day, when they were talking about how Sam Rami did not like Venom but was forced to put him in the movie. Co-Host then said this:
"And that is why you NEVER listen to the fans, because it never works! You wanted Venom, BOY, you got him!"
A lot of times fans don't have the story's best interest at heart. I mean, if studios looked at every single fan, they would be seeing some silly and downright weird kitten. Imagine if Sheishua decided Naruto got a harem, because there are fans who genuinely think Naruto deserves one for everything he's been through. What if they looked at those fans on DeviantArt who have a weight gain fetish? Or diaper fetish? They would be FOOLS to cater to those fans.
Sonic Boom recently made fun of the Sonic fanbase, with Sonic being tied down by an obsessive fan who forced him to listen to his fanfiction. I wish other companies would take jabs at their fans like that.
Sadly, I think Kishimoto and others who worked for him were taken completely off guard by social media and the change in technology, and didn't take the time to realize that the posts they saw don't always reflect reality.
The funny thing about the Sam Raimi Spider-Man and Venom one was that the studio forced him to put Venom in the movie. Raimi said he didn't want to because he felt Venom didn't fit well in the story, but Sony was like "You HAVE to do it. The fan want it." So Raimi was kind of forced to do it. If you read some of his interviews he talks how he tried to deal and say "Let's put Venom in the 4th movie and let me focus on Sandman in this one." They refused. He made Spider-Man 3 as it was, fans hated it, and Raimi was like "I can fix this in the 4th," but Sony was like "No, you messed it up. You're fired and we are rebooting the franchise."
It is sad that Raimi had this great idea for 4 movies and Sony's involvement for fan service lead to its downfall and people then blamed Raimi for it.
I think, partially, this is what happened with Kishimoto. It doesn't excuse all bad writing, but I feel they forced him to make NH canon with SS being just a side-effect of it. They don't care if SS really got together. They just use it as an excuse to get Sasuke and Sakura out of the way so Naruto can focus on Hinata because we all know that if Sasuke actually helped Naruto with Toneri in Naruto the Last...Naruto would not pay Hinata any attention.
As for NS vs NH child to continue the series, it's no difference to me. Naruto should NEVER have had a sequel to being with. If the theme was the next generation surpasses the Last, I feel like that's a story told. You give us a weak child, it will be hard to keep that theme going. You give us a strong one, then the process of keeping with this theme only becomes even more ridiculous.
If a sequel is dependent on the protagonist being weak or strong, to me that there is already a red flag why you shouldn't make one.
I think the problem was the whole "World Peace" BS that existed in the original Naruto. If it was just the story about a boy going from nothing to be the best, than sure....it could work. It works in Deku's case in MHA. He is not "trying to solve all crime." He is trying to be a great superhero which is a far more achievable goal.
Naruto's goal of world peace is just an unrealistic pipe dream because it is basically impossible. We can get close, sure, but there will always be someone who causes stir in the pot. People will cause trouble because they want it their way. What should have been world peace should of instead been "I want to unite the nations." An actual feasible goal and yet leaves open for more conflicts to arise up. I think this why they keep using the "clan on the moon Kaguya kids" is because if they have the other nations arise conflict, then it paints the characters in the bad light. At least they tried avoiding this...until they turned originally good guys into bad guys because "reasons" and had them be huge jerks. That one dude with the minigun basically the plot was just like Goldeneye. 006 gets shot in the head, comes back alive, and is now evil for some reason and is heavily scarred.
Now, because the original story pushed for this "world peace" goal, any conflict in the future will look like Naruto is a big failure. So, the problem doesn't really stem from Boruto itself existing, but rather what the original goal of the previous series was. Not to say Boruto still isn't crap, but saying this problem starts long before Boruto even existed. Boruto is just proving the point that "World peace" is at best a temporary thing and it COULD work if the characters actually lampshade how stupid the idea is. Sasuke tried to show how stupid world peace is by saying that conflict will always arise, but if he remains that the scapegoat and be the ultimate villain, then the nations will always rise up to battle him and create temporary peace. Then Sasuke just laid down and accepted the BS Naruto fed him because "reasons," and now they are shocked like that pikachu meme when kitten hits the fan.
If you want peace, prepare for war.
I think it's also worth pointing out that no rules are given to the genetics of Naruto. In real-life, genetics and breeding is complicated. People with some desirable traits often carry the potential for serious problems in the future, And if you hyper focus on only one or two traits, you could actually make the offspring susceptible to problems. Many pure-bred dogs can have predisposed problems because most of the traits selected were for show, and came at the cost of better genetic health. Some Spaniels have a condition where if injured in the head, their brain gets disconnected. Deafness is prominent in Dalmations. English Bulldogs as we know them today can almost NEVER give birth without veterinary health because their giant jaws came at the price of smaller hips.
So, Kishi could have just easily written that a child with Uzumaki and Hyuuga DNA could be powerful, but is more likely to be born with Down Syndrome.
And let's not forget that in DragonBall, Sayajin Human hybrids are often more powerful than many pure-blooded Sayajins, when by most fan-logic they shouldn't be.
Inuyasha is half demon, and is often portrayed as weaker than most high-level pure bred demons. Yet Dante is also by all means a Hanyou, and is touted as having the powers of both worlds.
So yeah, looking at hybridization in fiction, this claim is kitten.
Genetics are such a weird concept that writers try to implement, but never go beyond trivial explanations. Like you said, what were the chances that mixing Hyuga and Uzumaki DNA would create genetic defects. I don't know why writers don't really do research into what they are writing. It just baffles me. Just do a little research outside of it. Of course, Kishimoto stopped caring about genetics when he gave the kids whiskers, but NOT the Byakugan right off the bat. He had to be "reminded" to give them the Byakugan and gave this half assed explanation of "well, they can turn it on and off like a Sharingan. So Himawari can have both her blue eyes and Children of the corn eyes." Let's not even talk about Boruto's "Life hax more powerful than Rinnegan I can see souls eyes."
He especially betrayed the the genetics when he specifically said earlier that the whiskers were a cause of the MOTHER being the jinchuriki and the Fox's chakra influencing Naruto's as he was being born and coming in contact with Kurama for 9 months. This is further proven that when the Gold and Silver Brothers also had the whiskers cause they ate the stomach lining of Kurama and gained his chakra boosts and thus gained the whiskers. It is supposed to be the influence of Kurama's chakra on the person that gives them whiskers. It has nothing to do with genetics what so ever. So Boruto and Himawari should NOT have whiskers cause it is NOT a genetic trait. Boruto is not a jinchuriki nor ate Kurama flesh, Hinata is NOT a jinchuriki, so how in the world do they have whiskers? Oh and added that the GandS Brothers had three whiskers as well and yet Kushina did not despite actually being the vessel for it. Minato got whiskers he unlocked in Bijuu mode. Speaking of which, why do Boruto and Himawari only have 2 when everyone else has 3?
So this whole thing with Boruto and Himawari having whiskers is just one thing right off the bat that Kishimoto either didn't know what he was talking about or really just a BSed excuse to tell people "Boruto and Himwari are his kids." It is stupid. This is why you never see fan art of Shinachiku with whiskers because WE KNOW that trait is not passed down through genetics. It is passed through Kurama's chakra exposure.
It is also VERY stupid that when it comes to this, the arguments get ridiculous because now the proenders are using these faux genetic markers to prove parentage.
"Salad can use Sakura's techniques. That is proof she is her kid." The techniques Salad uses is NOT one that is based down genetically. Anyone has the potential to learn it...even Naruto if he wanted. As well, so are you saying Tsunade and Sakura are blood related because they both have the same techniques?
So how the hell did things that are not originally passed down genetically all of a sudden are now passed down genetically and things that SHOULD be passed genetically are not? It is little things like this that show how and why this all was a rush job. They disregarded the canon that already existed to created a new one and retconned how genetics work only to go back and redo it so that "oops, well now it is passed down genetically."
And this is just a minor detail. One small detail added to make Boruto and Himawari branded as Naruto's kids is the one thing that destroys the very nature of the canon right out of the starting gate. This small detail is proof of their "retcon deception." And they can't say they easily "forgot" because the Gold and Silver Brother's whiskers was a concept being published during the war arc during the development of Naruto the last and Boruto and Himawari's designs. So that means they did it on purpose. They purposely gave them whiskers despite the canon itself saying it should be impossible for them to have them.
*slow claps* Good job, writing team. Continuity be damned.
What, you didn't see that coming? He had blue eyes and blond hair (seriously, I've been joking about this for years).
Superman: "No, I saw it. I can see everything."
Edit: For some reason, the coding for my post decided to randomly stop putting the "quote" codes in. So I had to manually go in and fix it.
Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 February 2019 - 06:22 PM.
Not to mention that the new threats to create conflict has become "aliens from outer space!!!!!" So this is not even about ninjas anymore. And even if they are not aliens, the concept is the same since threats must be extraterrestrial now to one up the Kaguya fight.
Edited by Phantom_999, 06 February 2019 - 01:03 AM.
Not to mention that the new threats to create conflict has become "aliens from outer space!!!!!" So this is not even about ninja's anymore. and even if they are not aliens, the concept is the same since threats must be extraterrestrial now to one up the Kaguya fight.
Ninjas in space, nuff said.
I don't know what is worse.
Ninjas in space or Ninjas with miniguns and lightsabers.
I think the problem was the whole "World Peace" BS that existed in the original Naruto. If it was just the story about a boy going from nothing to be the best, than sure....it could work. It works in Deku's case in MHA. He is not "trying to solve all crime." He is trying to be a great superhero which is a far more achievable goal.
Naruto's goal of world peace is just an unrealistic pipe dream because it is basically impossible. We can get close, sure, but there will always be someone who causes stir in the pot. People will cause trouble because they want it their way. What should have been world peace should of instead been "I want to unite the nations." An actual feasible goal and yet leaves open for more conflicts to arise up. I think this why they keep using the "clan on the moon Kaguya kids" is because if they have the other nations arise conflict, then it paints the characters in the bad light. At least they tried avoiding this...until they turned originally good guys into bad guys because "reasons" and had them be huge jerks. That one dude with the minigun basically the plot was just like Goldeneye. 006 gets shot in the head, comes back alive, and is now evil for some reason and is heavily scarred.
Now, because the original story pushed for this "world peace" goal, any conflict in the future will look like Naruto is a big failure. So, the problem doesn't really stem from Boruto itself existing, but rather what the original goal of the previous series was. Not to say Boruto still isn't crap, but saying this problem starts long before Boruto even existed. Boruto is just proving the point that "World peace" is at best a temporary thing and it COULD work if the characters actually lampshade how stupid the idea is. Sasuke tried to show how stupid world peace is by saying that conflict will always arise, but if he remains that the scapegoat and be the ultimate villain, then the nations will always rise up to battle him and create temporary peace. Then Sasuke just laid down and accepted the BS Naruto fed him because "reasons," and now they are shocked like that pikachu meme when kitten hits the fan.
If you want peace, prepare for war.
Not to mention that, because of there continuing to be conflict and such, it only makes "bad guys" like Nagato, Obito, and Madara look correct in their viewpoints in hindsight when they're supposed to be seen as in the wrong.
They believed / knew that all of humanity would never be able to truly "understand" each other, even with Ninshu, so long as they had free will and individuality, thus differences of opinions, differing viewpoints, different beliefs of various kinds, thus leading to conflict and war. Nagato tried to do so through fear; by keeping everyone under constant threat of a weapon capable of easily destroying entire villages with a single attack if anyone ever tried to cause trouble. Obito or at least Madara tried to do so through the Moon's Eye Plan; by brainwashing / hypnotizing the entire world into believing the same thing and never be allowed to think differently, so no differences that could explode into conflict and war.
It also doesn't help that, as usual, you have Naruto paralleled with past figures who also desired similar peace (Hagoromo's younger son, Hashirama, Hiruzen, Jiraiya, Minato). However, where Naruto stubbornly refuses to see anything beyond his own narrow vision, those past figures could still see the realistic side of things and could set such personal feelings aside if necessary for the bigger picture, which is why they could all still fight wars efficiently, and kill if needed. They obviously didn't relish war, but they also knew they couldn't just talk, talk, talk and let the other villages beat them down in the meantime either in hopes that they would just stop and believe in them like Naruto's Talk no Jutsu magically kept doing. So it only further shows how mentally unprepared Naruto is to be even a squad leader, much less Hokage. Heck, even though it may have been called another "Great Shinobi War", it was nothing like the previous wars that had the villages fighting each other, but only against zombified past figures and White Zetsus, allowing Naruto and co. to "kill" without actually staining their hands with blood, so people can't even say that Naruto and co. even yet truly understand "war".
It's like what Odin said in the first Thor film, "A good leader does not seek war, but is always prepared for it."
Not only that it proves that they were right but that Naruto Nardo is a HYPOCRITE, and the prophesy regarding him is a lie. Boruto is essentially built on hypocrisy and lies, the five nations' ninja villages still spy and infiltrate each other just like in the "good old days" as if any unity meant nothing during the 4th great ninja war. So much for world peace huh? Nardo actually condones Orochimaru to continue his experiments, even though Naruto WAS is a compassionate person that hated seeing others suffer and Orochimaru was given a sob story about how he just wanted to see his parents again, but apparently he must continue his work. karma is Orochimaru's b***h I guess, and Nardo gives no kittens on the suffering of others in actuality. and don't get me wrong, It is true that zetsus and undead zombies are not like killing actual humans, but that is not the only horror of war it is also seeing comrades/friends/family die and suffer too so they had a huge dose of that (Neji anyone?), but despite this, again that "thing wearing Naruto's skin" is not doing a damn thing to stop any potential hostilities that could lead to another war, he is just repeating the mistakes of the past. So again, so much for all of his proud and childish boasting of stopping anyone from dying or suffering then, am I right?
Does that sound the type of happy ending or even satisfying conclusion that anyone would want to have? The only type of person that actually, seriously, supports the relationship SS has are those that delude themselves to thinking that girl getting the actual type of bad boy that would physically and verbally/emotionally abuse her is romantic, those that enjoy seeing Sakura suffer, or those that that don't give two $#!ts about anything in the story except Naruto "nekkid cuddling" with his true love Hinata and the only obstacle for that, Sakura is out of the way. 
