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Kishi's New Sci-fi Series: Samurai 8


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#261 Gravenimage

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 09:12 PM

... Does he not realize that he can do whatever he wants?

 

Stop me if this isn't something that you're actually implying but Kishi basically felt like Sakura was a failure of a character (because absolutely no one in the entire world wanted her to be with the MC) which was why he was willing to be talked into doing what he did?

 

But when you're writing a story you can do whatever you want. Just do whatever the kitten you want! If you try to do something that doesn't appeal to you it's going to suck even if you're far more talented than Kishi is.

 

True story what would have happened if he made NS canon in the end??? The Western fans would have rage send death threats mail while the Japanese fans would be more than happy. So what? The manga is over there wouldn't be a need to make a movie or a spin off series with a NS ending. Kishi just follows what his editors and the fans say. If he likes NS then he should have gone with that ship. The world might hate it but he won't. He will actually be happy and proud of his work. 


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#262 Derock

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 11:19 PM

 

True story what would have happened if he made NS canon in the end??? The Western fans would have rage send death threats mail while the Japanese fans would be more than happy. So what? The manga is over there wouldn't be a need to make a movie or a spin off series with a NS ending. Kishi just follows what his editors and the fans say. If he likes NS then he should have gone with that ship. The world might hate it but he won't. He will actually be happy and proud of his work. 

Not to mention his reputation would be intact. Honestly, majority of the Western fans that were obsessed with NH, Hinata, SS, w/e would be mute (those fans whom say "I will send death threats" needs a definite chill pill, take several seats and go to a mental institution). The franchise would been okay for the sequels and would be in a Dragon Ball-type recognition.  But I said before, during the grievance of his father's death, he should've had a backbone and told those editors off on handling his story, especially with the Hinata BS with Studio Pierrot.


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#263 DrK

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 11:21 PM

 

True story what would have happened if he made NS canon in the end??? The Western fans would have rage send death threats mail while the Japanese fans would be more than happy. So what? The manga is over there wouldn't be a need to make a movie or a spin off series with a NS ending. Kishi just follows what his editors and the fans say. If he likes NS then he should have gone with that ship. The world might hate it but he won't. He will actually be happy and proud of his work. 

I mean I don't really give a kitten how happy he is with it (because he made both himself and his self-insert into goddamn liars) but that is REALLY unfortunate if he didn't understand that.

 

Trying to do something that is not what you want will SUCK, period, I don't care how talented of a writer/artist/creator you are. It will suck.



#264 LuckyChi7

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 03:20 AM

Been sometime since I've been on here, and I've been catching up with this after being out of town for the last 3 weeks.  Seems like a perfect time to give my thoughts about how this last third of the current arc was and where the manga will go moving forward. 

 

 

Volume 3's cover also came out a couple weeks ago: 

 

 

sexynlndrl641.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&a


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#265 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 05:48 AM

... Does he not realize that he can do whatever he wants?

 

Stop me if this isn't something that you're actually implying but Kishi basically felt like Sakura was a failure of a character (because absolutely no one in the entire world wanted her to be with the MC) which was why he was willing to be talked into doing what he did?

 

But when you're writing a story you can do whatever you want. Just do whatever the kitten you want! If you try to do something that doesn't appeal to you it's going to suck even if you're far more talented than Kishi is.

In theory he is the mangaka. But he is apparently very weak will and will fold to pressure according to some people opinion of him. At the end of the day I think he just wanted to be done and move ontothe next thing but felt he needed to repay the people that supported him for all those years. And his editors told him his fans wanted nH.

 

Well, she wasn't popular and he couldn't figure out how to make her popular. He didn't even get how Hinata was popular till long after the manga was over. Its less Sakura is a failure as a character as a character that failed to popular, at least from what people were feeding into his ears.

 

True story what would have happened if he made NS canon in the end??? The Western fans would have rage send death threats mail while the Japanese fans would be more than happy. So what? The manga is over there wouldn't be a need to make a movie or a spin off series with a NS ending. Kishi just follows what his editors and the fans say. If he likes NS then he should have gone with that ship. The world might hate it but he won't. He will actually be happy and proud of his work. 

To be honest most people would have just shrug since it was the expected ending. Some would have made videos about the flaws of Naruto the big Hinata fans on Youtube would have decried the ending which would have concern kishi and his editors. But in the end nothing really would have changed that much other than Kishi maintaining his popularity in Japan, not disappointing his wife, and not having to spend years trying to help salvage Boruto.

 

Samurai 8 would have had more or less the same problems except for possibly the whole beat the reader over the head for ten chapter that Anna and Hachi are getting together.

 

Not to mention his reputation would be intact. Honestly, majority of the Western fans that were obsessed with NH, Hinata, SS, w/e would be mute (those fans whom say "I will send death threats" needs a definite chill pill, take several seats and go to a mental institution). The franchise would been okay for the sequels and would be in a Dragon Ball-type recognition.  But I said before, during the grievance of his father's death, he should've had a backbone and told those editors off on handling his story, especially with the Hinata BS with Studio Pierrot.

It likely would have remained One Piece/Dragon Ball- recognition in Japan; which means: more video games, after the end movies, and a sequel (since that what they really wanted) that wasn't desperately searching for a time slot. They had been more reluctant to sell it internationally since some were convince all wanted nH, but after a few good sales that would have faded away.



#266 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 08:49 AM

It thought the main problem was there was too much exposition to engage the readers. Too much unnecessary information, was it? That's what I gathered from the comments here


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#267 Namaenash

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 12:17 PM

Been sometime since I've been on here, and I've been catching up with this after being out of town for the last 3 weeks.  Seems like a perfect time to give my thoughts about how this last third of the current arc was and where the manga will go moving forward. 
 
 
Volume 3's cover also came out a couple weeks ago: 
 


Happy New Year folks!

And also, sales of Samurai 8 vol. 3 first week came out: 9.7k

To recap:
Vol. 1 - 12k
Vol. 2 - 11k
Vol. 3 - 9k

Meanwhile, latest Boruto manga first week sold 56k.

Japanese fans really punishing Kishi hard. So, during various interviews he planned for at least 10 volumes yeah? Well, I'd love to see if it goes that long. If it does, I could speculate that he may have a good bargaining position with decision makers at WSJ. Since WSJ has to burn money to feed Kishi's delusion that people are buying his manga.

Both manga with his name in it are trending down (don't even compare Boruto's first week of below 60k vs Naruto's first week of 2mil during its heyday).

http://namaenasuyou.tumblr.com/     ||     https://www.fanfiction.net/u/6308104/

 

"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."

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"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#268 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 01:41 AM

It thought the main problem was there was too much exposition to engage the readers. Too much unnecessary information, was it? That's what I gathered from the comments here

There were several problems with exposition when I was reading it.

 

For an example. He made the cyborg samurai far to complicated.

 

In Naruto: Ninjas use an energy from their body called chakra to perform ninjutsu. Ninjutsu vary from hand to hand combat, summoning trained ninja animals, elemental attacks -five basic elements that can be mixed to form other element mostly just lava and magnets-, and illusions. A ninja could also be born from a famous clan could also be born with abilities call kekki genaki that are unique to the clan, or could have a demon sealed inside them -by way of ninjutsu sealing techniques- when their young granting them access to the demons abilities.

 

In Samurai 8: a cyborg samurai is created when a chosen person with great spirit preforms a ritual suicide before a locker ball. Each locker ball is attuned to a priestess that becomes said Samurai's Destine Princess. A Samurai's strength comes from their own will, favor of the war god, and the faith of their princess. They fight using both soul swords and cyborg animal amour/mounts. There are four basic schools for fighting and several styles from each school.

 

Got that? OK Here an example of how they are presented in the respected stories.

 

Sasuke Uchiha: Uses lighting and Fire elemental attacks, summons snakes and hawks, uses a sword for close hand to hand fighting, and possesses his clan based ability the copy eye which allows him to copy jutsu.

 

Daruma: Student of the Great Yasha, The Second Generation Head master of the Vajrayaksa-style of the Kongo-Yahsa School one of the four great schools created by Fudo Myo-O which special ability is the creation of Juu weapons for combat, his key holder is Makami a Lion-dog which was stolen from him by the Ususama school so he now uses Yoken, his princess is the great Baku, using a single soul sword as his primary weapon along with all the fuu weapons his school allows him to create...Did you get that?

 

The Story was needlessly over complicated and couldn't explain itself in a simple manner which led to constant exposition. There also very little world build and exploration of the world...like Naruto.

 

Happy New Year folks!

And also, sales of Samurai 8 vol. 3 first week came out: 9.7k

To recap:
Vol. 1 - 12k
Vol. 2 - 11k
Vol. 3 - 9k

Meanwhile, latest Boruto manga first week sold 56k.

Japanese fans really punishing Kishi hard. So, during various interviews he planned for at least 10 volumes yeah? Well, I'd love to see if it goes that long. If it does, I could speculate that he may have a good bargaining position with decision makers at WSJ. Since WSJ has to burn money to feed Kishi's delusion that people are buying his manga.

Both manga with his name in it are trending down (don't even compare Boruto's first week of below 60k vs Naruto's first week of 2mil during its heyday).

Well it should be out the door soon, but that's up to the editor and chief. If he wants to keep it going. It will be kept going. It may stay long enough to be optioned for a anime but if that fails it gone.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 19 January 2020 - 01:43 AM.


#269 LuckyChi7

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:30 PM

officially caught up to the chapters, so HachiAnn moments within the last 11 chapters (not much, but a few spots) 

 

 

samurai-8-13024693.jpg

 

 

samurai-8-13024765.jpg

 

 

samurai-8-13024777.jpg

 

 

 

 

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samurai-8-13089841.jpg

 

 

samurai-8-13129249.jpg


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#270 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 06:30 PM

God damn it, he actually gave him a rival.



#271 Gravenimage

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 01:29 AM

God damn it, he actually gave him a rival.

 

Yeah and he looks like Sasuke wonder if the female protagonist will fall for him. History repeats itself.


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#272 Phantom_999

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 06:57 AM

Well It is already established how Ann and Hachi got super close already, so no threat of that at least this time around. If it WERE to happen........ Kishi has no excuse anymore, now does he?

Edited by Phantom_999, 13 February 2020 - 05:45 AM.

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#273 rikakim94

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:29 AM

Kishimotos ideas are very rushed and too generic, Im not saying cliches are bad but you gotta give it some freshness to it and it has to be well written. kishi to me just copys a textbook example of a cliche and just pastes them. yu yu hakasho is generic to but it was well written generic shonen and did something fresh with the tropes without just copying and pasteing them.



#274 DrK

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:03 AM

I went back and read through some of this thread and I have to say that the ham-handed way he seems to be handling the pairing in this is really sad in terms of what it implies about Naruto... I wonder if the NH editors/fanbase who caused this debacle notice or care about this at all?

 

And I admit I haven't read this (and don't really plan to) but honestly it doesn't seem like it would appeal to me. Though I do appreciate and like the interactions of NS (to the point that I wrote way too much about their significance)... And I know I might be completely alone on this from reading sentiments expressed in this thread (and many many others)...

 

But the dynamic of Sasuke is actually what I like THE MOST about them. Just the angst it creates for Sakura. The way she hates herself for doing so. The fact that Naruto could win for free by simply abandoning him but he won't and actually CAN'T... And that's less because of Sasuke being important to him as well but because that's simply not who he is.

 

What the final revelation for Sakura realizing she loves Naruto might have been like. And how freeing it would have been for her.  How much more comfortable and happy it would make her life.

 

And Naruto being gobsmacked that she actually did choose him which he never thought would happen. And NOT because of him being a hero (as in tool of a village dedicated to savage ninja practices)... But because he actually has value as a person, someone who's lovable (he's certainly not this anymore)... Being a person who someone as incredible as he thinks Sakura is could fall in love with... He wouldn't be able to deny his own value anymore.

 

All of that stuff is entirely dependent on Sasuke's presence and involvement... And these are not things that you find in just any old love triangle. IMO it's really cool and I don't think I would appreciate or even care about them that much if I was instead being constantly bashed over the head with "These two will definitely get together! Don't worry!" from the VERY BEGINNING.

 

To me, that sounds so GOD DAMN BORING in comparison. Just my $0.02.


Edited by DrK, 14 February 2020 - 07:10 AM.


#275 LuckyChi7

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 07:25 AM

Well since the whole scanlation situation, it kinda threw off my groove on reading the chapters, but on the plus side it's all official translations from this point moving forward. Definitely gonna make Sundays a lot more interesting if I do say so myself haha. 

 

 

So what HachiAnn moments did we get in Chap. 37? 

 

 

samurai-8-13354171.jpg

 

 

samurai-8-13354177.jpg

 

 

samurai-8-13354183.jpg

 

samurai-8-13354189.jpg

 

 

samurai-8-13354219.jpg


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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#276 T XD

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 09:03 PM

Did Ann always stammer when she talks since her first appearance in the manga ?



#277 LuckyChi7

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 11:04 PM

Did Ann always stammer when she talks since her first appearance in the manga ?


Yeah Ive been reading the series from the beginning just to pick up on somethings I mightve missed, and she normally stammers a lot when it pertains to meeting new people.

I think it still happens whenever with people shes talked to, but its like after a sentence or two.

Her issue is a whole better than the hyuga princess thought am I right? Lol

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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#278 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 03:04 AM

Yeah and he looks like Sasuke wonder if the female protagonist will fall for him. History repeats itself.

Well she was swooned when she first talk to him, and it got the vibe that he was a rival in love after a few more panels.

 

Well It is already established how Ann and Hachi got super close already, so no threat of that at least this time around. If it WERE to happen........ Kishi has no excuse anymore, now does he?

The fact that he -again- spent 10 chapters beating it into the readers' head that she is his fated princess and they are destine to be together. This is probably an attempt to spice up the story and the romance...but we have seen how that has turned out.

 

Kishimotos ideas are very rushed and too generic, I'm not saying cliches are bad but you gotta give it some freshness to it and it has to be well written. kishi to me just copies a textbook example of a cliche and just pastes them. yu yu hakasho is generic to but it was well written generic shonen and did something fresh with the tropes without just copying and pasteing them.

Kishimoto doesn't actually read shounen manga -anymore- he watches Japanese & American Movies/Tv shows. This allowed him to be somewhat original when he was making Naruto because he was pulling from a different source for ideas compared to the others, but everything he did in Naruto is now main-stream. So now everything he does is just generic and the pacing of the story isn't that good.

 

I went back and read through some of this thread and I have to say that the ham-handed way he seems to be handling the pairing in this is really sad in terms of what it implies about Naruto... I wonder if the NH editors/fanbase who caused this debacle notice or care about this at all?

 

And I admit I haven't read this (and don't really plan to) but honestly it doesn't seem like it would appeal to me. Though I do appreciate and like the interactions of NS (to the point that I wrote way too much about their significance)... And I know I might be completely alone on this from reading sentiments expressed in this thread (and many many others)...

 

But the dynamic of Sasuke is actually what I like THE MOST about them. Just the angst it creates for Sakura. The way she hates herself for doing so. The fact that Naruto could win for free by simply abandoning him but he won't and actually CAN'T... And that's less because of Sasuke being important to him as well but because that's simply not who he is.

 

What the final revelation for Sakura realizing she loves Naruto might have been like. And how freeing it would have been for her.  How much more comfortable and happy it would make her life.

 

And Naruto being gobsmacked that she actually did choose him which he never thought would happen. And NOT because of him being a hero (as in tool of a village dedicated to savage ninja practices)... But because he actually has value as a person, someone who's lovable (he's certainly not this anymore)... Being a person who someone as incredible as he thinks Sakura is could fall in love with... He wouldn't be able to deny his own value anymore.

 

All of that stuff is entirely dependent on Sasuke's presence and involvement... And these are not things that you find in just any old love triangle. IMO it's really cool and I don't think I would appreciate or even care about them that much if I was instead being constantly bashed over the head with "These two will definitely get together! Don't worry!" from the VERY BEGINNING.

 

To me, that sounds so GOD DAMN BORING in comparison. Just my $0.02.

To be honest the idea of a boy trying to win the affection of the girl -who had feelings for another guy- instead of her just falling in love with her at some point is what made the pairings interesting. Even if some felt it should be dropped because they identified with him too much and decided he should get the easy girl. Now its a destine princess so their won't be the giant pairing conflict, but the problem is that this is boring.

 

Oh, the nH fans love this and defend it constantly on twitter...at least those that read it.

 

Yeah, I've been reading the series from the beginning just to pick up on somethings I might've missed, and she normally stammers a lot when it pertains to meeting new people.

I think it still happens whenever with people shes talked to, but its like after a sentence or two.

Her issue is a whole better than the hyuga princess thought am I right? Lol

Like I said, she either, "a Sakura with a bit of Hinata mixed in to see if that makes her more likable," or, "a Hinata he is putting effort into writing." She is clearly becoming more the latter. 


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 16 February 2020 - 03:30 AM.


#279 DrK

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 05:33 AM

To be honest the idea of a boy trying to win the affection of the girl -who had feelings for another guy- instead of her just falling in love with her at some point is what made the pairings interesting. Even if some felt it should be dropped because they identified with him too much and decided he should get the easy girl. Now its a destine princess so their won't be the giant pairing conflict, but the problem is that this is boring.

 

Oh, the nH fans love this and defend it constantly on twitter...at least those that read it.

You said Kishi was being tepid with it, and he was, but the thing is that that would have made it even better. It was (or seemed to be) BUILDING to something. And it could have been completely devastating. In a good way. Like with how the anime constantly inundates the viewer with sentimental flashbacks. There would have actually been LICENSE to do that. It would have been EARNED. And if he clearly locked it in before that, the effect would not have been the same.

 

Instead he made the resolution to his 15 years of work tepid instead. Just flat. You feel nothing. And the war arc was so tedious and boring. And the reader gets NOTHING for it.

 

It wasn't even rushed like Bleach. He just gave up at the last hurdle.

 

And if he really expected the Japanese fanbase to buy into his next manga, then I'm concerned for his sanity.


Edited by DrK, 16 February 2020 - 05:33 AM.


#280 LuckyChi7

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 05:12 PM

Wow... I don't know what to say about this:

 

 

Kishi has improved? or red herring all over again? 

 

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86493340_3637446186297608_86935870735688

 

 

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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!





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