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#53881 Phantom_999

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Posted 12 July 2022 - 05:25 PM

It might haven been better. That Naruto is a better character than that idiot we got.

 

Idiot, to me, again is being overly generous. He's a lying, manipulative, self serving self-entitled hypocrite that doesn't give rat's kitten about how anyone else feels. He just wants to preach and argue, just to prove he's right and LOVES THE ATTENTION that it gives him. That is what "The Last" said, with him being ignorant about love. 


Edited by Phantom_999, 12 July 2022 - 06:39 PM.

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#53882 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 12 July 2022 - 07:57 PM

If I make a evil Naruto fic someday... it would be where he believes Sakura dies... and he snaps and kills Sasuke. Like Anakin Skywalker, though... there is still good in him.


Edited by NaruSaku fan in Kentucky, 12 July 2022 - 07:58 PM.

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#53883 LuckyChi7

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Posted 12 July 2022 - 09:29 PM

If I make a evil Naruto fic someday... it would be where he believes Sakura dies... and he snaps and kills Sasuke. Like Anakin Skywalker, though... there is still good in him.

 

 

That would be quite an interesting take. 

 

 

 

I would probably go a little bit more than just  a love interest being what makes Naruto tic towards the evil road.... We could have it to where Iruka is the one that causes the domino effect. 


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#53884 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 13 July 2022 - 02:07 AM

That would be quite an interesting take. 
 
 
 
I would probably go a little bit more than just  a love interest being what makes Naruto tic towards the evil road.... We could have it to where Iruka is the one that causes the domino effect.


Seems possible, considering how Iruka's actions towards Naruto, as he said himself, were stemming from forgetting how Naruto's actions as a kid were like his own, and how some of it alo felt like it was because Naruto was Kurama's Jinchuriki, and how Mizuki telling the truth did make Naruto almost pour out a lot of chakra in rage

#53885 LuckyChi7

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Posted 13 July 2022 - 03:09 AM

Seems possible, considering how Iruka's actions towards Naruto, as he said himself, were stemming from forgetting how Naruto's actions as a kid were like his own, and how some of it alo felt like it was because Naruto was Kurama's Jinchuriki, and how Mizuki telling the truth did make Naruto almost pour out a lot of chakra in rage

 

I think that is a really fascinating concept to dive into, and granted there are a few things you would have to work around with the narrative for it to work.  But I could Iruka being a huge catalyst that leads Naruto down that path. 

 

 

I wouldn't say it's a direct cause, but you could use it as like the seed that leads him to all that misfortune.   

 

 

 

Lets say for example things play similarly to chapter 1, but the major difference is Iruka dies  in the first chapter and  all the villagers look to Naruto and pin the blame on him making him feel responsible when in actuality we know it was Mizuki. 

 

 

I think to make it work you can have Part 1 be centered on Naruto attempting to make things right, but there is always some kind of tragedy that comes his way.  Lets use it as like a grim reaper analogy where everywhere he goes something tragic happens to someone. 

 

 

 

There is still a lot that can be to make the concept work, but I'm just sharing some ideas here. 


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#53886 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 13 July 2022 - 09:13 PM

If I make a evil Naruto fic someday... it would be where he believes Sakura dies... and he snaps and kills Sasuke. Like Anakin Skywalker, though... there is still good in him.

...Don't we call that Obito?

 

Seems possible, considering how Iruka's actions towards Naruto, as he said himself, were stemming from forgetting how Naruto's actions as a kid were like his own, and how some of it also felt like it was because Naruto was Kurama's Jinchuriki, and how Mizuki telling the truth did make Naruto almost pour out a lot of chakra in rage

Was it forgetting? I thought it was the fact he knew Naruto was just like him was why he was tough on him. He just never expressed it to Naruto and the third was just reminding him of that...granted also there was his resentment of him being the host of kurama.

 

Naruto said during the Gaara fight that he almost gave into hatred and became like Gaara, but hearing Iruka's speech gave him hope, and according to Bee; Iruka's words have carried him through the series.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 July 2022 - 06:03 AM.


#53887 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 13 July 2022 - 10:51 PM

 

There is definitely a lot of ways you can go with Naruto as the antagonist of the story moving into the timeskip. 

same he'd be more interesting as a villain but maybe nerf him a bit cause evil naruto is to op



#53888 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 13 July 2022 - 10:53 PM

If I make a evil Naruto fic someday... it would be where he believes Sakura dies... and he snaps and kills Sasuke. Like Anakin Skywalker, though... there is still good in him.

sounds like injustice superman only without lois dying



#53889 LuckyChi7

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Posted 13 July 2022 - 10:55 PM

same he'd be more interesting as a villain but maybe nerf him a bit cause evil naruto is to op

 

 

Without a doubt, and I know the Naruto community loves to joke about Talk no Jutsu... I mean we do it all the time, but to be honest...

 

 

Naruto's way to persuade people though words in a rather dark evil,  ruthless vibe.... is honestly really dangerous. 


Edited by LuckyChi7, 13 July 2022 - 10:55 PM.

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#53890 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 12:52 AM

sounds like injustice superman only without lois dying


Sakura is basically Narutos Lois Lane. If she dies, he goes on a rampage.

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#53891 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 01:50 AM

sounds like injustice superman only without lois dying


Oh yeah, even if Clark became worse due to outside forces manipulating his pain and grief, as well as his guilty conscience at Joker tricking him into attacking Lois, killing her and their unborn son as well as killing millions in Metropolis due to Joker tying Lois's heart to the nuke used to destroy Metropolis, and the fact not many people understood WHY Clark took that first step when he killed Joker, especially Batman/Bruce, which only made things worse. :(

#53892 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 03:46 AM

Without a doubt, and I know the Naruto community loves to joke about Talk no Jutsu... I mean we do it all the time, but to be honest...

 

Naruto's way to persuade people though words in a rather dark evil,  ruthless vibe.... is honestly really dangerous. 

...Not really. When you actually look at the "talk no jutsu" scenes. Naruto has very limited persuasion abilities. Largely its people that have given up on life and became bitterly cynical about the world. Then after a fight Naruto tells them they shouldn't give up hope on the world and they can fight to make it better.

 

Hell, when you look at his attempts at Talk-no-Jutsu-ing Sasuke, it didn't work for most of the series because Sasuke was obsessed with revenge not about being cynical about the world. It only worked once Sasuke was over revenge, became cynical about the world, and planned enacting his hokage of the shadows to scare the world straight idea.

 

If you made Naruto ~Evil wohooo~ all he would do is just reaffirm what they already believe, and won't be able to convince them of anything.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 July 2022 - 08:34 AM.


#53893 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 12:53 PM

 

 

Without a doubt, and I know the Naruto community loves to joke about Talk no Jutsu... I mean we do it all the time, but to be honest...

 

 

Naruto's way to persuade people though words in a rather dark evil,  ruthless vibe.... is honestly really dangerous. 

true though alot of evil or bertayed naruto fanfics i've read he's all but unstoppable and gets tiresome 

 

Sakura is basically Narutos Lois Lane. If she dies, he goes on a rampage.

agreed though she's a capeable lois that's not a damsel all the time 

 

Oh yeah, even if Clark became worse due to outside forces manipulating his pain and grief, as well as his guilty conscience at Joker tricking him into attacking Lois, killing her and their unborn son as well as killing millions in Metropolis due to Joker tying Lois's heart to the nuke used to destroy Metropolis, and the fact not many people understood WHY Clark took that first step when he killed Joker, especially Batman/Bruce, which only made things worse. :(

like in under the red hood when bruce told jason why he won't kill is the same here with bruce in injustice and injustice 2 deeped it at the end when bruce and clark talk before fighting. bruce even saying he misses those times. also i feel wonderwoman is also the reason superman fell cause real wonderwoman would not just up and join superman like that



#53894 James S Cassidy

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 02:29 PM

 

If you made Naruto ~Evil wohooo~ all he would do is just reaffirm what they already believe, and won't be able to convince them of anything.

Let's be real here, the concept of evil is the idea that you hold a person accountable for their actions in the Narutoverse. The moment you believe they deserve punishment for their wrongdoings, then you are evil and need to be stopped. 

I guess you could say that killing the innocent is evil, but they have this idea of guilty because you support a corrupt system which is not too far off from how people see America today in terms of systemic bigotry, but that is politics and not worth discussing here. Just saying it is alot more realistic than you think.

Naruto is a self-made hypocrite and when it is someone else's revenge or justice he talks you out of it, but if HE deems it okay like say him getting mad and wanting revenge on Orochimaru for taking away his boyfriend best friend then it is okay. 

Naruto should have died a long time ago


Edited by James S Cassidy, 14 July 2022 - 02:38 PM.

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#53895 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 04:30 PM

 

...Not really. When you actually look at the "talk no jutsu" scenes. Naruto has very limited persuasion abilities. Largely its people that have given up on life and became bitterly cynical about the world. Then after a fight Naruto tells them they shouldn't give up hope on the world and they can fight to make it better.

 

Hell, when you look at his attempts at Talk-no-Jutsu-ing Sasuke, it didn't work for most of the series because Sasuke was obsessed with revenge not about being cynical about the world. It only worked once Sasuke was over revenge, became cynical about the world, and planned enacting his hokage of the shadows to scare the world straight idea.

 

If you made Naruto ~Evil wohooo~ all he would do is just reaffirm what they already believe, and won't be able to convince them of anything.

Let's be real here, the concept of evil is the idea that you hold a person accountable for their actions in the Narutoverse. The moment you believe they deserve punishment for their wrongdoings, then you are evil and need to be stopped. 

I guess you could say that killing the innocent is evil, but they have this idea of guilty because you support a corrupt system which is not too far off from how people see America today in terms of systemic bigotry, but that is politics and not worth discussing here. Just saying it is alot more realistic than you think.

Naruto is a self-made hypocrite and when it is someone else's revenge or justice he talks you out of it, but if HE deems it okay like say him getting mad and wanting revenge on Orochimaru for taking away his boyfriend best friend then it is okay. 

Naruto should have died a long time ago

The story shows various characters that are suppose to represent what Naruto would be like if he turned "evil." Also, if you don't like evil how about dark or cynical? Haku, if Naruto became so desperate for affection he would turn himself into a human-weapon for anyone that showed him a little affection. Gaara, if Naruto believed no one could ever love him so he lashes out at the world and does acts of murder to prove he exist. Neji, if he resigned himself to the system and put down others for trying to make a change. Nagato, a student of Jiraiya that tries to fulfill his dream of peace but doesn't believe reforming the ninja system can be done peacefully. Obito, love of his life is killed so he gives up on the world. Boruto, if Naruto was a spoiled brat that always complained about his suffering but never did anything to improve it, and I swear whenever someone does evil/dark Naruto fanfic they often turn out like Boruto.

 

A lot of people seem to believe that being cynical and thinking the world sucks makes them smarter for figuring out, "the truth of the world." The thing is that on some level all the characters in Naruto know the ninja system sucks, cynical about the world, and resigned in the fact that nothing can change. What makes Naruto stand out is, that he wants to change it and believes he can. If not, at least he is trying. So, he brings hope to people who initially look down on him through them seeing his efforts; even if its just when facing them. That is the Talk-No-Jutsu. If he is cynical/dark/evil he is just one voice among many saying nothing can change and just give up. Of course, this important part of the story was neglected to chase after Sasuke and abandon for Hinata.

 

People that believe the Talk-no-Jutsu shows Naruto's massive persuasion power he has are just buying into a meme.

 

This has to get political for a second but look at how people treated Obama/Trump. They came in promising hope, change, and to fix the damages in the system. Lots of people bought into their promises and voted for them. (How you feel about them, I will leave up to people opinion of them, and hope we all leave it at that.) It is very similar to what Naruto did.

 

Now, for what was considered evil in the story. The characters actually had a very standard morality. The main difference is the societal pressure put on them, they were told since they were young to suppress those morals and their emotions by their ninja code. That told them to be emotionless tools is the ideal, which Naruto pretty much rejected by the first arc, and declared he would make his own way ninjas should live by. Beyond that don't betray your village seem to be what defines you as evil or not.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 17 December 2022 - 06:07 PM.


#53896 catsi563

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 05:40 PM

The one common question asked by Narutos foes is "Why dont you just gtive up already?" 

 

thats my ninja way. is the response which leaves them shocked enough to get a boot to the face for their troubles which often rings their bell enough to wake them up from their cynicism and despair

 

such Inspiration can be a powerful force for good when backed up by the hope such a character brings to a situation or helps to bring back to a person who's lost it. thats what makes Naruto as a character so strong the ability to restore hope

 

Sadly, the ending turned that on its ear 


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#53897 James S Cassidy

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Posted 14 July 2022 - 08:41 PM

The one common question asked by Narutos foes is "Why dont you just gtive up already?" 

 

thats my ninja way. is the response which leaves them shocked enough to get a boot to the face for their troubles which often rings their bell enough to wake them up from their cynicism and despair

 

such Inspiration can be a powerful force for good when backed up by the hope such a character brings to a situation or helps to bring back to a person who's lost it. thats what makes Naruto as a character so strong the ability to restore hope

 

Sadly, the ending turned that on its ear 

Pain: "How will you bring peace?"
Naruto: "I don't know"
Pain: "That's not good enough"

*5 minutes later*

Pain: "How will you bring peace?"
Naruto: "I'll do....something"
Pain: "That sounds good. Deus Ex Machina activate"

Did I get it right?
 


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#53898 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 15 July 2022 - 07:09 AM

Pain: "How will you bring peace?"
Naruto: "I don't know"
Pain: "That's not good enough"

*5 minutes later*

Pain: "How will you bring peace?"
Naruto: "I'll do....something"
Pain: "That sounds good. Deus Ex Machina activate"

Did I get it right?
 

Its more "I'll follow Jiraiya's wishes and try to find the answer." While also reminding Nagato that Jiraiya believed in him, renewing his hope in peace, and placing his trust in Naruto. I don't have a problem with Pein's talk no jutsu. Since finding the answer to world peace or ending the cycle of hatred is difficult.

 

But, I don't think the excuse works in the final battle with Sasuke. Since that was suppose to be a clash of plans that were made from the paths they walked to reach that point. Sasuke gave his stupid Shadow-Hokage terrorize the world straight plan while Naruto had no plan, despite the fact the it was the last battle before the end. Which then led to the problems of Boruto as Naruto's failure to have a plan or even an idea meant the next generation has to repeat the same conflict.



#53899 James S Cassidy

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Posted 15 July 2022 - 12:16 PM

Its more "I'll follow Jiraiya's wishes and try to find the answer." While also reminding Nagato that Jiraiya believed in him, renewing his hope in peace, and placing his trust in Naruto. I don't have a problem with Pein's talk no jutsu. Since finding the answer to world peace or ending the cycle of hatred is difficult.

 

But, I don't think the excuse works in the final battle with Sasuke. Since that was suppose to be a clash of plans that were made from the paths they walked to reach that point. Sasuke gave his stupid Shadow-Hokage terrorize the world straight plan while Naruto had no plan, despite the fact the it was the last battle before the end. Which then led to the problems of Boruto as Naruto's failure to have a plan or even an idea meant the next generation has to repeat the same conflict.

You must be a riot at parties.

As for the Sasuke part...well, I think you need to go back farther and the main cause of why everything happened the way it did in the first place.

Honestly, I think Pain needed to say "That's not a plan, that is a goal" kind of inference indicating that wanting to achieve takes more than just wanting it to occur. You want change? You have to be the change.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 15 July 2022 - 03:12 PM.

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#53900 catsi563

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Posted 15 July 2022 - 06:01 PM

Thats essentially what Naruto was saying to Pein in that moment. I WILL BE THE CHANGE we both need

 

thats what ket Nagato trust him though it may have been written better 

 

As for Sasuke their conflict was always going to happen as a final which system is better for everyone. yours hope and everyone working together or mine strength and terror from the shadows for anyone who does what perceive as evil 


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