31579 replies to this topic

[Derock]

...I swear you ask this before.

 

I don't remember asking about that.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I'm curious who here has seen how cringe kishimoto's tv tropes page is
https://www.google.c...jfz42AJy8eKnuuu

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 
I was going to talk about that. There were some iffy stuff when I was reading the Rock Lee's anime TV tropes, especially on their YMMV page. They put down that Masashi's wife made him the scarf which provided inspiration for NaruHina in The Last. Did he ever said that in those interviews?

Not that I know, but some NH fans are nuttier than a squirrels lunch box.

[Bail o' Lies]

I don't remember asking about that.

Someone did...a year or two ago I think

[Kagomaru]

I'm curious who here has seen how cringe kishimoto's tv tropes page is
https://www.google.c...jfz42AJy8eKnuuu

This is why I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of TV Tropes. It is basically an unsupervised wiki where you can write and fabricate whatever the hell you want, and nearly no one (least of all, the mods) will question if the information is true or not since TV Tropes barely cares about providing sources or regulating bias.

Edited by Kagomaru, 14 February 2021 - 12:05 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

This is why I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of TV Tropes. It is basically an unsupervised wiki where you can write and fabricate whatever the hell you want, and nearly no one (least of all, the mods) will question if the information is true or not since TV Tropes barely cares about providing sources or regulating bias.

I find it generally a place to get a decent idea of what peoples general opinion of a character or a piece of media; just be aware there is bias. Though pages' like Kishi's are too be avoided because it clear someone making sure only a certain message is seen. Though in a way it still shows a general opinion. The nH fans that support the ending are still insecure about it. Honestly, if it was me I would have put all the ending bits in the YMMV page and instead used the interviews through out the years to fill the page with all the tropes kishi says are in his writing and try to make sure he came out as favorable as possible while still acknowledging his flaws.

 

Instead that page is just, "Hinata was always the true intended love interest ALWAYS Sakura was too hated too be with Naruto wait she was never considered a chance to be with him because it was always our princess goddess queen Hinata! HA HA HA AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh and he really liked the video games and he forgot to really do a lot with certain characters which he somewhat blames on his editors."

 

Also the fact that interviewers keep asking Kishimoto about it means that it is the question they feel the fans want an answer to.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 February 2021 - 08:51 PM.

[RulesofNature]

I find it generally a place to get a decent idea of what peoples general opinion of a character or a piece of media; just be aware there is bias. Though pages' like Kishi's are too be avoided because it clear someone making sure only a certain message is seen. Though in a way it still shows a general opinion. The nH fans that support the ending are still insecure about it. Honestly, if it was me I would have put all the ending bits in the YMMV page and instead used the interviews through out the years to fill the page with all the tropes kishi says are in his writing and try to make sure he came out as favorable as possible while still acknowledging his flaws.

 

Instead that page is just, "Hinata was always the true intended love interest ALWAYS Sakura was too hated too be with Naruto wait she was never considered a chance to be with him because it was always our princess goddess queen Hinata! HA HA HA AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh and he really liked the video games and he forgot to really do a lot with certain characters which he somewhat blames on his editors."

 

Also the fact that interviewers keep asking Kishimoto about it means that it is the question they feel the fans want an answer to.

Pretty much this. Casual fans do not edit wikis, since doing that requires a higher level of investment than simply consuming the media. As such, they are always going to have some bias when it comes to their information. For real, I once saw a infamous Edelgard defender edit her fanwiki page, removing statements from the director that her path leads to tyranny while trying to paint her in a positive light, even using fanon to do so (ironically, TV tropes dismissed that specific bit of fanon, saying the game completely debunks it). And once those biases are in place, it's easy to gang up on someone trying to argue otherwise. You can have canon on your side or even hard facts but their narrative is in place and being spread, informing people less informed and even give them a bias if they do decide to check it out.

[Bail o' Lies]

Pretty much this. Casual fans do not edit wikis, since doing that requires a higher level of investment than simply consuming the media. As such, they are always going to have some bias when it comes to their information. For real, I once saw a infamous Edelgard defender edit her fanwiki page, removing statements from the director that her path leads to tyranny while trying to paint her in a positive light, even using fanon to do so (ironically, TV tropes dismissed that specific bit of fanon, saying the game completely debunks it). And once those biases are in place, it's easy to gang up on someone trying to argue otherwise. You can have canon on your side or even hard facts but their narrative is in place and being spread, informing people less informed and even give them a bias if they do decide to check it out.

You seem to be really peeved about Edelgard for awhile now. Did you ever find a video or make one about what she was actually suppose to be in the story part of the fandom overlooks?

[Namaenash]

Pretty much this. Casual fans do not edit wikis, since doing that requires a higher level of investment than simply consuming the media. As such, they are always going to have some bias when it comes to their information. For real, I once saw a infamous Edelgard defender edit her fanwiki page, removing statements from the director that her path leads to tyranny while trying to paint her in a positive light, even using fanon to do so (ironically, TV tropes dismissed that specific bit of fanon, saying the game completely debunks it). And once those biases are in place, it's easy to gang up on someone trying to argue otherwise. You can have canon on your side or even hard facts but their narrative is in place and being spread, informing people less informed and even give them a bias if they do decide to check it out.

Well, purely looking at it from business perspective, anything that doesn't impact sales, doesn't really matter. TV Trope, or Internet for that matters, can be filled with bias opinions.

If the story is good, it'll attract sustainable market segment. If the story is not good, it will die of natural cause and eventually be forgotten. I'm a firm believer of "survival of the fittest". Good stories lasts for generations.

The fanatics of Naruto franchise can do whatever they want to frame opinion, but what's already written is history.

You can't change what has been transpired in the 15 years of Naruto franchise journey before the ending. The big hole that the producers created with NH/SS can't be filled with patches.

Putting it differently, one can't erase 15 years of NS with just one movie to justify the lack of development in NH and SS. Look at the state of the franchise now...

If NH/SS was properly developed throughout the journey and enough build up is present, any continuation would yield the same (if not more) financial success. It would attract the same size, if not more new readers/viewers.

Fans do not need to defend the story, since everything is written in the source material with the structure properly maintained. In and of itself, it'll be sustainable and you can retell the story decades to come.

Look at Slam Dunk restructured manga sales (https://www.crunchyr...nga-sales-chart). More than a decade later, just having new covers, same story and all, easily occupied the top oricon sales chart. That's how loyal Japanese fans are.

[RulesofNature]

You seem to be really peeved about Edelgard for awhile now. Did you ever find a video or make one about what she was actually suppose to be in the story part of the fandom overlooks?

Nah.  It's just... with Fates discussions were often heated. Sometimes even toxic, but you could still discuss Fates. What the game tried to do, what it did do, and where it went wrong. But with 3H, it's just toxic. Hell, I think I'd rather engage with a hardcore Gundam SEED fan than deal with what has happened with Fire Emblem. And the thing is, due to the translation what Edelgard is supposed to be in the story is more murky in the English release than the Japanese one due to the symbolism that was downplayed or lines that say the opposite of what they were intended too.

 

The fandom has largely become an unwelcoming place.

 

As for videos, a lot of people go by the American translation. With Fates, people had a year to pour over the Japanese script to understand the characters and story before it was released in the West. With 3H, that didn't happen since they were released at the same time. Not to mention it's been over a year since launch and there's still details being found buried in the game's script that point to cancelled DLC. So to argue "actually, this is what the game was supposed to say" based on a version most of my audience wouldn't have played isn't going to go over so hot.

Edited by RulesofNature, 15 February 2021 - 10:04 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

Say did we narusaku fans do this or not back in 2018, or is forneverworld being full of it again just trying find an exuse to attack narusaku fans again in when it was 2018?

https://m.youtube.co...eature=youtu.be

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Say did we narusaku fans do this or not back in 2018, or is forneverworld being full of it again just trying find an exuse to attack narusaku fans again in when it was 2018?
https://m.youtube.co...eature=youtu.be

It's gotta be BS just to attack us.

[Bail o' Lies]

Say did we narusaku fans do this or not back in 2018, or is forneverworld being full of it again just trying find an exuse to attack narusaku fans again in when it was 2018?

https://m.youtube.co...eature=youtu.be

That was not NS fans. We talked about it at the time. He got fired, because no matter what people may do with or think of the characters of Naruto behind close doors. It is still a CHILDRENS' CARTOON! The idiot posted that on twitter a public forum where children could see it.

 

It is like an official animator from Disney posting Mickey and Minnie kittening on twitter or someone from Warner Bros posting Bugs Bunny banging Daffy. It is unprofessional and inappropriate even in Japan.

 

We talked about it at the time and that is what I roughly said at the time.   

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 October 2021 - 06:48 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

That was not NS fans. We talked about it at the time. He got fired, because no matter what people may do with or think of the characters of Naruto behind close doors. It is still a CHLIDRENS' CARTOON! The idiot posted that on twitter a public forum where children could see it.

 

It is like an official animator from Disney posting Mickey and Minnie kittening on twitter or someone from Warner Bros posting Bugs Bunny banging Daffy. Its is unprofessional and inappropriate even in Japan.

 

We talked about it at the time and that is what I roughly said at the time. 

 

Yeah, now I remember that too, Bail. It still is SO sad Forneverworld continues to be a pathetic loser just because we still are around and he can't think of anything really creative or honest to do with his content, as well as the fact he's spreading misinformation and lies without the full context to get some few points. Makes me wish I could slap him with something for this BS.

[Derock]

This is the reason why certain people shouldn't be in the anime industry. I really don't know why that person wanted to do a NH sex scene. Not even sure if that idea was inspired by what the animators and writers did with Rurouni Kenshin: the OVA, Reflections, where Kenshin and Kaoru had a sex scene for dramatic purposes on screen (the OVA in general, where fans were PISSED off entirely on its whole story). Or he wanted an idea similar to Shaman King, where that had the implied scene of Yoh and Anna did the deed but needed to be viewed.

 

But yeah, that guy was let go because he suggested that scene and told it on social media. We, NaruSaku fans, had nothing to do with that.

[Bail o' Lies]

This is the reason why certain people shouldn't be in the anime industry. I really don't know why that person wanted to do a NH sex scene. Not even sure if that idea was inspired by what the animators and writers did with Rurouni Kenshin: the OVA, Reflections, where Kenshin and Kaoru had a sex scene for dramatic purposes on screen (the OVA in general, where fans were PISSED off entirely on its whole story). Or he wanted an idea similar to Shaman King, where that had the implied scene of Yoh and Anna did the deed but needed to be viewed.

 

But yeah, that guy was let go because he suggested that scene and told it on social media. We, NaruSaku fans, had nothing to do with that.

Oh that simple. Like Foreverworld and his viewers, he forgot that Naruto is still a children cartoon. Not solely for lonely Otaku. So the idiot wanted a sex scene where Naruto and Hinata get it on for an episode (if that not a start to more of those episodes) with Nana and Junko voice acting it to celebrate years of work in order to get them together.

 

Forgetting that it would turn Naruto from a young boys' children cartoon...in to Hentai.

 

You can imply sex in children cartoon it just has to be very subtle. A used cigarette by the bedside like they did in hollywood for years before they could show sex.

 

Nah.  It's just... with Fates discussions were often heated. Sometimes even toxic, but you could still discuss Fates. What the game tried to do, what it did do, and where it went wrong. But with 3H, it's just toxic. Hell, I think I'd rather engage with a hardcore Gundam SEED fan than deal with what has happened with Fire Emblem. And the thing is, due to the translation what Edelgard is supposed to be in the story is more murky in the English release than the Japanese one due to the symbolism that was downplayed or lines that say the opposite of what they were intended too.

 

The fandom has largely become an unwelcoming place.

 

As for videos, a lot of people go by the American translation. With Fates, people had a year to pour over the Japanese script to understand the characters and story before it was released in the West. With 3H, that didn't happen since they were released at the same time. Not to mention it's been over a year since launch and there's still details being found buried in the game's script that point to cancelled DLC. So to argue "actually, this is what the game was supposed to say" based on a version most of my audience wouldn't have played isn't going to go over so hot.

Hopefully the next fire emblem will come out soon.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 22 February 2021 - 12:29 AM.

[RulesofNature]

Oh that simple. Like Foreverworld and his viewer, he forgot that Naruto is still a children cartoon. Not solely for lonely Otaku. So the idiot wanted a sex scene where Naruto and Hinata get is on for an episode (if that not a start to more of those episodes) with Nana and Junko voice acting it to celebrate years of work in order to get them together.

 

Forgetting that it would turn Naruto from a young boys' children cartoon...in to Hentai.

 

You can imply sex in children cartoon it just has to be very subtle. A used cigarette by the bedside like they did in hollywood for years before they could show sex.

 

Hopefully the next fire emblem will come out soon.

 

Yeah. People really, REEEALLLY need to learn that Japanese TV isn't pervy anime 24/7. Most of the shows they like air way late at night so children don't see it. Hell, Gundam IBO got in hot water with parents over it's implied sex and the fact Atra got pregnant. Show got investigated by some standards board and everything, and only got let off because while the characters looked young it was "clear" that they were actually older than they looked.

 

Naruto and Hinata boinking on TV, not just where kids can see it but it being marketed towards those kids? Never going to fly. They are not going to expose children to pornography just to appease horny fanboys.

 

As for the next FE, nothing on last night's Nintendo Direct. Considering how 3H was delayed twice and how it probably cost more than Fates to produce only to sell around the same level (and with front-loaded sales to boot), they're probably having some serious discussions on what to do next. I mean, it's kinda clear they expected more DLC out of it than we ended up getting. The fact Square is releasing their own SRPG that people have been calling "3H if it was good" that is unafraid to punch the player in the demo from what I've heard, IS has some competition.

[Luna]

I had thought about this for a while and I believe Sakura is one of the greatest anime characters in history. This isn't even about her characterization or how she is portrayed in the manga/anime because there are better characters in the anime world. I say  this because I have never seen ANY character in ANY anime or manga bring out so much toxicity in fans. Just her presence alone bothers them (and it is mostly men who hate her and some women) so much that it shocks me.

 

I saw a twitter user said that Hinata is better because she probably has better *private part* in retaliation to a Sakura fan. They reduced Hinata's entire character into being a sex symbol and breeding machine.

 

The most ridiculous ones I have seen is because Sakura treated Naruto bad, rejected Naruto and loved Sasuke too much. It is almost like they WISHED she stopped loving Sasuke and liked Naruto instead. I know a lot of these fanboys self-insert themselves as Naruto but I don't think they are even satisfied with their Queen Hinata. Its almost as if they wanted Sakura to end up with Naruto because they keep bringing up that she treated Naruto bad and rejected him and loved Sasuke.

 

To make matters worse, I even saw some calling 12 year old Sakura a WHORE for not liking Naruto but Sasuke. She is only 12...a literal child.

 

Anyway, some claim she is irrelevant but they cannot stop talking about her instead of their milk-eyed queen. Sakura is so powerful to be honest. I am so proud of her exposing the misogynist and incel behavior of Naruto fans. This fandom is so disgusting but thank god that Sakura has had a resurgence in popularity especially on twitter where she has so many supporters.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I had thought about this for a while and I believe Sakura is one of the greatest anime characters in history. This isn't even about her characterization or how she is portrayed in the manga/anime because there are better characters in the anime world. I say  this because I have never seen ANY character in ANY anime or manga bring out so much toxicity in fans. Just her presence alone bothers them (and it is mostly men who hate her and some women) so much that it shocks me.
 
I saw a twitter user said that Hinata is better because she probably has better *private part* in retaliation to a Sakura fan. They reduced Hinata's entire character into being a sex symbol and breeding machine.
 
The most ridiculous ones I have seen is because Sakura treated Naruto bad, rejected Naruto and loved Sasuke too much. It is almost like they WISHED she stopped loving Sasuke and liked Naruto instead. I know a lot of these fanboys self-insert themselves as Naruto but I don't think they are even satisfied with their Queen Hinata. Its almost as if they wanted Sakura to end up with Naruto because they keep bringing up that she treated Naruto bad and rejected him and loved Sasuke.
 
To make matters worse, I even saw some calling 12 year old Sakura a WHORE for not liking Naruto but Sasuke. She is only 12...a literal child.
 
Anyway, some claim she is irrelevant but they cannot stop talking about her instead of their milk-eyed queen. Sakura is so powerful to be honest. I am so proud of her exposing the misogynist and incel behavior of Naruto fans. This fandom is so disgusting but thank god that Sakura has had a resurgence in popularity especially on twitter where she has so many supporters.

We also can't forget how we have supported her as well in the series as we've watched her grow.

[Luna]

We also can't forget how we have supported her as well in the series as we've watched her grow.

 

This is true. Back then, this site was the only safe space for NS fans. It was horrible then.