219 replies to this topic

[ShippudenGirl]

You see how off topic we are guys?

[crazyefra]

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[No WhereMan]

Hey, I don't like leaving questions unanswered. Besides it's not like it wasn't Naruto related. ^^

[Kenny-kun]

Pssst...Feminist isn't a bad word.

The general connotation of the word in the US implies female supremacy. If we get rid of the silly connotation of the word and focus on the original intent, then yes, I am a feminist (gender equality ftw).

I find Sakura's characterization offensive because she is still treated as a damsel in distress, not a self-actualized hero.

In interpersonal situations? For the most part, I appreciate Sakura's tough/brash demeanor. In terms of battle though, I agree; her characterization is pretty offensive.

But there is hope! As we're talking about this chapter, I must say I was HAPPY see Sakura recognize in herself what we holds her back. But in this moment, she still falls short.

I don't mean to undermine your happiness from this chapter, but frankly, I consider even this to be bad writing. If you'll refer back to the Chuunin Exam, she had ALREADY figured out her flaws (unfortunately, she still ended up getting humiliated, but we'll ignore that for now). What's she saying now is nothing more than repitition; we've seen this before! In fact, it was supposedly "resolved" when we saw her rather impressive showing against Sasori. Yet for some odd reason, Sakura slowly began to regress back into being weak and pathetic. And here we are now, with her figuring out precisely what she figured out over 400 chapters ago. Kishi is outright recycling bits and pieces of the story The only difference is that unlike last time, Sakura is calling it quits (which is even worse than her getting humiliated by the sound shinobi).

Down side: In this moment she doesn't take the leap to how she can personally change things. She resigns herself to watch. She actually declares that she will be passive!

Agreed. To add insult to injury, this gives her less resolve than Hinata. Even though Hinata has gotten humiliated on both of her showings in the manga, she has taken after Naruto's "never give up" mentality. I hate to say it on this website (and again, I'm pro NaruSaku all the way), but if Hinata were in this situation, she'd strive to get stronger.

yet. I still think there is more planned and I still think she can grow and become a strong character that can stand next to Naruto and maintain her identity and feminity.

I used to think that too, but we've got to face the facts. We're getting closer and closer to the end of the manga. Kishi has had ample opportunities to develop Sakura, yet has refused. It doesn't seem likely on this basis. At best, I think Kishi might throw Sakura on a bone and have her beat a fodder villain ( maybe the White Zetsu, since Kishi has already established that he is very weak), but I wouldn't be surprised if her role in the upcoming chapters are restricted to being the healer or being pairing/shock fodder.

As for Sakura, I don't care so much about her getting in the middle of Naruto and Sasuke's fight. This really is between them.

It's between Team 7. Even though we all knew it'd ultimately come down to Naruto and Sasuke fighting, that's still no reason to cut her out of it (though I would have been fine with Sakura acknowledging that it's Naruto's fight if her character were handled more appreciably against Sasuke.

[ShippudenGirl]

Sometimes I wonder if this chapter made her quit as a Ninja with the wording; I'm getting upset at her abuse, no wonder everyones so in love with Hinata, whenever she gets panel time there action but Sakura is left in the dark when she's up. Kishimoto said he's going to make Sakura more heroine, but all I've seen is him making her more disgraceful, I'm almost begining to think that she hasn't grown-up like I thought and is actual going back to Part 1 where she just stood in the background. It's funny how the Main Villian gets more panel time/fights then the Main female hero.
I'm still hopeing that she gets to beat a actually tough enemy and give the boys a break, geez.

I still have hope though. Sakura is still my favorite female Character :]

Edited by ShippudenGirl, 20 March 2010 - 01:58 AM.

[trivia212005]

I recently read the chapter and I agree with the title. The Battle Begins and the Great Ninja War has Begun.

[Insurrection]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/487/01/

I know everyone left this thread for predictions but I wanted to put this out, the translation seems to give Sakura a better context. They weren't lazy like last week, I like this one much MUCH better.

[James S Cassidy]

I think we are looking at Sakura all wrong. Don't look at her as the "heroine" that jumps in at the right time and saves everyone she loves from dying. Look at her as the heroine that saves people from themselves. Especially Naruto. Although she is capable of doing the former, I think her goal is to save Naruto and that is the heroine aspect to her.

Sakura herself is going through a lot. Mixed emotions of who she truly loves. Her old love and fellow teammate almost killed her twice and yet Naruto kept saving her. She wants to be stronger, but for some reason she keeps stopping herself. She doesn't want to be a burden on Naruto, but she always feels like she is even is Naruto disagrees. Now she has this notion that BOTH Naruto and Sasuke will die which is a double whammy. Think about it.

Hinata...she doesn't experience this. She never went through this kind of thing and doesn't affect her. The only thing that affected her was the notion that Naruto was going to die.

This meeting with Sasuke was the moment that needed to happen for both Naruto and Sakura to change. Now they both know that Sasuke is not coming back. He is not going to change. This was the darkest before the dawn. Now things can only go up for them.

You'll see. The next chapters will probably be them getting even closer than they are. Sakura is going to be the heroine in that she will help Naruto live his life. She is going to save his life by showing him how to live it. At least that is how I see it.

Naruto and Sakura are no longer going to chase after Sasuke. He is going to Konoha anyway so the best they can do is train and prepare for Sasuke coming. And yes, having fun is also preparing.

As they say "The past is history, the future is a mystery, but today is a gift...that is why they call it the present." I see people are disappointed in Sakura, but I am not. She is going through a lot and I don't expect her to just breeze through it like it was nothing. Her development is the best part, through the good and the bad.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 21 March 2010 - 01:13 AM.

[Gravenimage]

I think we are looking at Sakura all wrong. Don't look at her as the "heroine" that jumps in at the right time and saves everyone she loves from dying. Look at her as the heroine that saves people from themselves. Especially Naruto. Althought she is capable of doing the former, I think her goal is to save Naruto and that is the heroine aspect to her.

Sakura herself is going through a lot. Mixed emotions how who she truly loves. Her old love and fellow teammate almost killed her twice and yet Naruto kept saving her. She wants to be stronger, but for some reason she keeps stopping herself. She doesn't want to be a burden on Naruto, but she always feels like she is even is Naruto disagrees. Now she has this notion that BOTH Naruto and Sasuke will die which is a double whammy. Think about it.

Hinata....she doesn't experience this. She never went through this kind of thing and doesn't affect her. The only thing that affected her was the notion that Naruto was going to die.

This meeting with Sasuke was the moment that needed to happen for both Naruto and Sakura to change. Now they both know that Sasuke is not coming back. He is not going to change. This was the darkest before the dawn. Now things can only go up for them.

You'll see. The next chapters will probably be them getting even closer than they are. Sakura is going to be the heroine in that she will help Naruto live his life. She is going to save his life by showing how to live it. At least that is how I see it.

Naruto and Sakura are no long going to chase after Sasuke. He is going to Konoha anyway so the best they can do is train and prepare for Sasuke coming. And yes, having fun is also preparing.

As they say "The past is history, the future is a mystery, but today is a gift...that is why they call it the present." I see people are disappointed in Sakura, but I am not. She is going through a lot and I don't expect her to just breeze through it like it was nothing. Her development is the best part, through the good and the bad.

I couldn't agree more with you!

[socermania2]

OK chapter. Like seeing Kabutomaru again.

[Merger Knight]

http://mangastream.c...d/naruto/487-75



people who r getting impatient and who r having trouble here http://hotfile.com/d...to_487.zip.html

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/487/01/

I know everyone left this thread for predictions but I wanted to put this out, the translation seems to give Sakura a better context. They weren't lazy like last week, I like this one much MUCH better.

So why does both of these have two diffent translations?

[ShippudenGirl]

James-kun you sly dog xD I have gained confidence! Though, I still wanna see Sakura get in a physical fight with the *pow* and blood :] nice aren't I?

I'd love nothing more then for Naruto and Sakura to get closer, it's unbareable how canon close they are, it's driving me crazy

[No WhereMan]

Wow, it feels weird agreeing with James for a change. ^^;;

Yea I think Sakura's been taking a pounding emotionally this whole arc. She's really has been going through a slew of emotions. One from the knowledge that Konoha is trying to eliminate Sasuke. And Sai's statement that her and Sasuke were the ones that truly been hurting Naruto the most. Then her confession to Naruto, which was halfway sincere, but he saw through and rejected anyway. Then from her trying to take it upon herself to kill Sasuke anyway so Naruto wouldn't have to endure any more pain. To freezing in the moment of truth, then having Sasuke try to kill her a couple of times and have Naruto save her. Now she's hear that the both of them would probably die if they ever really fight.

I have to say this has been a crappy arc for Sakura. I wouldn't be surprised if she had a complete nervous breakdown from all the conflicting emotions that must be going through her. And people complained that she's always crying. Hell, after rereading that paragraph I just wrote, dammit I probably would be in tears half the time as well. Or freakin' out of my mind.

I mean, Naruto was a blubbering mess not to long ago, but what happened he got that kick ass Sage Mode down, saved Konoha and everyone (fans) loves him again.

I wonder why no one puts Sakura through the Nature affinity training to get her own element technique. If anything, it would show she's still trying to move forward. Would also give her a bit more confidence in herself, not to mention show she can bring something else to the plate. Plus her ability to mold chakra and her good control of chakra should help her out a lot in developing, where she probably wouldn't be able to get it like Naruto fast, but it's at least something.

Edited by No WhereMan, 21 March 2010 - 03:39 AM.

[Dreamer]

I wonder why no one puts Sakura through the Nature affinity training to get her own element technique. If anything, it would show she's still trying to move forward. Would also give her a bit more confidence in herself, not to mention show she can bring something else to the plate. Plus her ability to mold chakra and her good control of chakra should help her out a lot in developing, where she probably wouldn't be able to get it like Naruto fast, but it's at least something.

I know she took some kind of test since she was said to be a genjutsu type, it would be cool if she had a water affinity though.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 21 March 2010 - 03:23 AM.

[ShippudenGirl]

I would completely if she was also "Wind", ah-haha! Naruto would be like "What the f- Sakura-chan you're so cool !" xD

P.S
Just because she's a genjutsu type, they don't know her element, that just means she has good chakra control and can use genjutsu well.

[James S Cassidy]

James-kun you sly dog xD I have gained confidence! Though, I still wanna see Sakura get in a physical fight with the *pow* and blood :] nice aren't I?

I'd love nothing more then for Naruto and Sakura to get closer, it's unbareable how canon close they are, it's driving me crazy

What I do?

Also, I like girls who can kick ass.

Wow, it feels weird agreeing with James for a change. ^^;;

Uhhh thanks.....I think.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 21 March 2010 - 04:17 AM.

[No WhereMan]

Yea just because she leans towards genjutsu, doesn't mean it's impossible for her to learn ninjutsu. I mean she's a genjutsu type, but that didn't stop Tsunade from teaching her a boatload of taijutsu.

Heck, replications was Naruto's worst subject back in the academy. Look how that turned out for him.

Edited by No WhereMan, 21 March 2010 - 04:17 AM.

[Gravenimage]

Sakura is a medic nin healing is her specialty so there might be a chance that her element affinity is water. But I will be amuse is she turns out to be wind like Naruto.

Edited by Gravenimage, 21 March 2010 - 04:52 AM.

[tricksie]

Chiyo was married and had a child and grandson, lived a long (for the violent world they live in) life and was strong and competent. Yoshino (Shikamaru's mother) may be a "housewife" but we know she's the powerful one in the relationship, Shikaku answers to her and seems quite comfortable with her being the "dominant" one in their relationship. (it's a more equitable extension of the 20th century Japanese household like Kishimoto would have grown up in. Where the wife did make household decisions but acted deferential to her husband- what Fugaku and Mikoto's relationship looked to be) And we hear from Shikaku (and later Jiraiya) that men are best in relationships with emotionally strong women.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back!

You're right of course, there are models of strong women in all across the manga. But I was thinking more in terms of in direct contact with Sakura, who would have the most tangible impact on her life. Tsunade is set up as the one she has to surpass, so if I had to place my bets it would be to surpass her in combining power and love.

It is interesting about the little bit with Shikamaru and Temari, and later Shikaku talking to his son about strong women. Kishimoto could have easily left this part out of the manga, we'd be none the wiser, and the whole plot would have remained intact. I think it's there to shine a light on an emotional development facet of the characters. That some will retreat into tradition (probably Hinata, though I imagine she will change things in her own way), and others will surpass those before them, physically and emotionally. Jiraiya also talks about this to Naruto, that strong women are worth having. So I think this is laying the foundation for Sakura's transformation and Naruto being able to recognize and value her for it.

Rereading your response, it just occurred to me there are some subtle differences between Sasuke and Naru/Saku. Sasuke's whole upbringing was very traditional, steeped in clan life, with the mother and father portraying traditional roles. With Naruto, there is no one present at all, and with Sakura we are shown precious little, but it was certainly not traditional and clan-centric like Sasuke's (for obvious reasons, of course). So both Naruto and Sakura are coming at the world from a slightly more modern outlook, whereas Sasuke's outlook is completely dominated by his upbringing. Fast forward to young adults, Naru/Saku want change, believe it's possible and strive to do things in create a different shinobi world, whereas Sasuke can't move out of his clan's chokehold. So, another little set of differences to underscore larger problems to come.

(Kishimoto has a kind of John Stuart Mill/Ashley Montagu sensibility)

*coughing in dust from philosophy degree* I get where you're going with Mill/Montagu, I just think my modern eyes are searching for unconditional strength from her and unconditional support of her, without a tear, a doubt or a word from a superior as to any other roles (which, I must just say, has never once happened from Naruto). I've got my fingers crossed for more character development, but ultimately it's the author's choice.

Alright, I'll see your JSMill and raise you a Mr. Darcy: “But your good opinion is rarely bestowed, and therefore more worth the earning.” (Well, it's not from the book but from one of the movies, but it does sound so much like something Jane Austen would have him say — and it fits this post perfectly.)

Konan as well, although not the fighter Nagato or Yahiko were, appears to be emotionally stronger than either. We see some of that in Sakura too, plus Sakura can be a strong fighter at times- she took down the giant centipede in one blow that male Jonin ninja were fleeing from, and we know those animal summons were extremely powerful from other characters battles with them. The destruction of Konoha arc actually was probably the best Kishimoto has ever written Sakura: she was strong, intelligent, compassionate.

Forgot all about Konan! lol I have a feeling we'll see more of her before this is through. And she may have a positive impact on Sakura as well. Being caught in between two boys you care about, one with fierce determination, one with a frightening power. She would certainly know about bonds and sacrifices. Her next "training" or "power up" that we're expecting for her in a pro-Sakura arc may be from a chat with Konan helping her strengthen her resolve.

[tricksie]

The general connotation of the word in the US implies female supremacy. If we get rid of the silly connotation of the word and focus on the original intent, then yes, I am a feminist (gender equality ftw).

That's what I mean: don't associate the term feminist with outdated stereotypes. In the US there is no other term that supports anything female or feminine. There is no concept of yin and yang. As a post-90s feminist, I don't identify with that mindset of female domination either, but rather a balance between the two in all things, unapologetically.

And slipping into a mindset that broadly dismisses any kind of feminism as wrong can be a subtle checkmark on the side of things that you really, really don't support!

Don't be offended, I'm not taking you to task. I heard myself say one time that I wasn't a feminist, in the way you referred to it. And I thought, "Then what the hell am I?" So now I work to define myself by what I am, not by what I am not.

I don't mean to undermine your happiness from this chapter, but frankly, I consider even this to be bad writing....

We're getting closer and closer to the end of the manga. Kishi has had ample opportunities to develop Sakura, yet has refused. It doesn't seem likely on this basis. At best, I think Kishi might throw Sakura on a bone and have her beat a fodder villain ( maybe the White Zetsu, since Kishi has already established that he is very weak), but I wouldn't be surprised if her role in the upcoming chapters are restricted to being the healer or being pairing/shock fodder.

It's between Team 7. Even though we all knew it'd ultimately come down to Naruto and Sasuke fighting, that's still no reason to cut her out of it (though I would have been fine with Sakura acknowledging that it's Naruto's fight if her character were handled more appreciably against Sasuke.

Yeah, well, this is a little like a good fanfiction, isn't it? There's enough layering and interest to string us along, but at any time it could change. He could drag fights out for too long, throw in random characters, do wacky emotional back-peddling, turn the whole manga over to Sasuke for what feels like 100 chapters. We hope that it's all going to turn out good in the end for Sakura's development, but we have no assurances.

And not just with her character either. I mean we have no assurances that he will spend the amount of time developing Naruto the way he has developed Sasuke. We hope that he will, but he might just wind the whole thing up with Naruto as an untarnishable hero figure and Sakura as his less powerful love interest, and tell us they live happily ever after and expect us to be happy.

I'm not expecting quick resolutions, I'm just hoping that Kishimoto will invest in a good story line which does right by all three characters. But, better writers have resorted to cheaper tactics to wrap up their plots.

I understand exactly where you're coming from. Any one of these chapters could have been the springboard to character development, but there always seem to be strings attached. But you're right, historically Kishimoto has sidestepped these opportunities. I'm hoping for a good outcome, but there are no guarantees.