196 replies to this topic

[Emb3rs]

    Hi I'm Emb3rs

For Starters as of this post, its been a little over a month since I started and became a fan of Naruto.

Second this is not a post meant to bash any fandoms so i apologize if it does.
    
    So for the past week since I caught up with the most recent episode of Naruto, I watch dubbed, I have been looking all over to see opinions from all sorts of fans in the Naruto fandom. The most common argument next to NaruSaku is hate towards Sakura. I initially avoided them because I love Sakura in Naruto. Other conversations that I had entered all led me to those videos though so I put my personal opinions of Sakura aside and watched the videos by Double4Anime and ForNeverWorld. What I found behind the mean titled videos were very well thought out explanations. The summary that I got from these videos is, “ I could have like Sakura, she had potential but Kishimoto never gave her the chance because he didn’t want her to be the tsundere or heroine of the his manga.

    My Question is how do you feel about this? Do you think it was fair that Kishimoto used Sakura as a meaningless character to throw under the bus as he pleases yet has the audacity to call her a main character? Do you think he might work with Anime directors like in Road to Ninja to solve these loose ends he left behind now that the manga is over?

    So I dug a little deeper and found an interview from 2006. In this video he says something that enraged me a bit because of how terrible a choice it turned out to be. In the interview he is told that One Piece creator already know the end to his manga and asked if he had made one for Naruto yet? His answer was this:

    “ Yes, I have the last episode clearly drawn in my mind. I’ve already decided on the layout, text and scenes. Not just the story ideas, but the visual ideas are solid. All I have to do is just head toward the ending I have, but there are still so many things that need to be resolve before reaching that point. Maybe I have thrown in too many ideas, so I need to wrap them up neatly.”

    So here we are years later and were is this neatly wrapped masterpiece that is your last chapter? Any decent writer will learn to alter there ending if his work up to the ending contradicts what his final piece was suppose to be. Sakura, unfortunately seemed to be used as a red herring, a full time Sasuke fan girl, and the idiot girl who married a man who attempted to kill her several times.

    He made her joke around with Narutos feelings for her to bring him back to the Konoha village. Made her sound terrible by basically saying, “ you are famous now so I like you.” Finally also making her seem cold by disregarding for a long time what Hinata said to Naruto during the pain fight and making it seem as if she just needed him to get back with Sasuke. And the neatly wrapped up ending is resolved by her telling Naruto, her almost lifelong Friend and the guy who’s crush did in fact turn to love later, he only ever liked her because of his rivalry with Sasuke.

    Even if he didn’t want to make NaruSaku something he didn’t have to ruin such an amazing character. There is so much to compare team 7 and the great Sannin but it’s tied up so bad that it’s an insult to compare Tsunade with what Kishimoto made of Sakura in the end.

    I hope the anime team pushes Kishimoto to at least help out absolve Sakura from the horrible way in which he depicted her. It doesn’t matter if its canon or not because look at the movie Road to Ninja. That is my favorite Naruto movie and its not canon. Kishimoto worked with directors to write this very emotional and awesome story that seemed canon. I’m sure if he could re do it he would have worked it in to fit the timeframe in his manga.

    He has time now to reconsider his mistakes or write alternate endings that fit better with the manga he created that went in  an almost completely different direction to what Naruto The Last says he wanted to do.

 

    I really want to hear your opinion of this subject. Like i said i'm new so i do like to learn from everyone.

    And Yes I still want NaruSaku in these haha its hard not to want it and it would make a large number of fans happy to see he does care to see his fans happy with his creations.

 

Here are the links to the Interview of Kishimoto and the reviews from Double4Anime and ForNeverWorld

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jXdTyNYOc8

 

The Interview of Kishimoto 2006

http://www.naruto2.c...iKishimoto.aspx

Edited by Emb3rs, 04 November 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[rocci]

Do you know Emily from until dawn?
That's sakura.

Kishi simply failed on her character.

Edited by rocci, 04 November 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

The part that always plays in my mind is the point of origin. That will be the 2010 Shonen Jumps Festa where SJ editors urged Kishi to make a heroine switch because Hinata was more popular and with all the hate mails they were getting. 
 
And what you may not know is that we NS and Sakura fans never rallied and came to Sakura's aid  because we were hoping that Kishi was not dumb enough to give in to the fans and editors. Oh boy we were wrong. There is nothing we westerners could have do about it but JP NS and Sakura fans could have supported Kishi if the leaked rumors about Shuiesha editors hate on Sakura and the ran an anti Sakura campaign towards the west are true. 
 
Rumors have he stated at the 2015 Jump Festa that SJ (not Shuiesha) editors suggested that he should go with NS because it was more logic. But kishi declined and stated that he couldn't make NS happen because of personal reasons. 
 
It makes us wonder if we Sakura fans have let him down that he went out of his way to mislead us as a retaliation of his dissatisfaction and to smite us for not having Sakura's back. Of course, there is nothing we westerners can do about it, but the JP fanbase is another story. If the Japanese were dumb enough to submit hate mails to counter the anti Sakura fans, yeah nothing got through to Kishi. The JP Sakura fans should have protested and threaten Shueisha with a petition and be on the six o'clock news. Not even Shuiesha can hide that from Kishi. As for what we got, even though most of the blame goes to Kishi for giving up on Sakura too earlier without him doing research on his fandom to verify for himself if the entire world hates Sakura before pulling the plug on her, the Japanese NS and Sakura fanbase did very little or jack kitten to come to Sakura's aid.
 
And according to those rumors, Kishi fought very hard to try to win Sakura over with the support of other mangaka, but the Sakura Calvary and reinforcements (the fans) was no where to be found, so (not defending him) I can see why he's pissed off at us.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 05 November 2015 - 06:01 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, the short answer would be that Kishi isn't that good at developing characters. He's a one-time hitter with his characters, so like if they are only there to develop for a moment, he can do decent at it. However, when it comes to expanding that certain character, he either ignore it or rush it, alas side characters and not Naruto/Sasuke, or he will make a mess out of it or pause and repeat the same formula, alas Sasuke/Naruto respectively.

So going back to Sakura, I have no clue why he couldn't develop it right though he has repeatedly said that he's not good at female characters and throughout the series, it really shows. People won't complain loudly if the characters were presented well, but since they're not, it is noticeable. I had a really hard time to defend them but he kept going circle to the point I just quit. As for Sakura, she's a character that has no sense of direction with an actual direction that was truly intended or a false hope.

Part 2 started off promising, then it just never recovered from that. So what Sakura is a medic or don't have attack names, there are ways to make it work and Kishi just ignore it. I guess I shouldn't be that surprise since it took almost 4 arcs to have Naruto a proper 1v1, which is odd for battle manga. Anyway, Sakura was a character that Kishi really couldn't handle since well, look at the development. Even with the series ended, she still feel incomplete and wrongly directed. It's just a mess that she should have gotten killed off or don't exist. At least that way critics can't find anything to critique on.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Well, the short answer would be that Kishi isn't that good at developing characters. He's a one-time hitter with his characters, so like if they are only there to develop for a moment, he can do decent at it. However, when it comes to expanding that certain character, he either ignore it or rush it, alas side characters and not Naruto/Sasuke, or he will make a mess out of it or pause and repeat the same formula, alas Sasuke/Naruto respectively.

So going back to Sakura, I have no clue why he couldn't develop it right though he has repeatedly said that he's not good at female characters and throughout the series, it really shows. People won't complain loudly if the characters were presented well, but since they're not, it is noticeable. I had a really hard time to defend them but he kept going circle to the point I just quit. As for Sakura, she's a character that has no sense of direction with an actual direction that was truly intended or a false hope.

Part 2 started off promising, then it just never recovered from that. So what Sakura is a medic or don't have attack names, there are ways to make it work and Kishi just ignore it. I guess I shouldn't be that surprise since it took almost 4 arcs to have Naruto a proper 1v1, which is odd for battle manga. Anyway, Sakura was a character that Kishi really couldn't handle since well, look at the development. Even with the series ended, she still feel incomplete and wrongly directed. It's just a mess that she should have gotten killed off or don't exist. At least that way critics can't find anything to critique on.

 

The hate played a big factor in all of no matter we choose to believe it or not. I'm do agree with this, but its also proven that Kishi could take Sakura's character to another level, in witch he did. She fought Sasori and its something that is not too shabby for an author who struggles to write female characters. I believe it is all this hate that has influenced Kishi not to develop her and the pressure that comes with it.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 04 November 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
The hate played a big factor in all of no matter we choose to believe it or not. I'm do agree with this, but its also proven that Kishi could take Sakura's character to another level, in witch he did. She fought Sasori and its something that is not too shabby for an author who struggles to write female characters. I believe it is all this hate that has influenced Kishi not to develop her and the pressure that comes with it.

That's possible though it don't explain the other characters, including Sai.

[rocci]

That's possible though it don't explain the other characters, including Sai.

Sai is side character.

My problem is not with side characters, but the main especially naruto and sakura. Still remember when fandom and even anime make fun of naruto status as protagonist of the manga?

Edited by rocci, 04 November 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Sai is side character.

My problem is not with side characters, but the main especially naruto and sakura. Still remember when fandom and even anime make fun of naruto status as protagonist of the manga?

Oh if we talk about them, we will be here for days. It's just odd how the introduction to these characters were good that after that, it's all a blur.

[totherpage95]

The part that always plays in my mind is the point of origin. That will be the 2010 Shonen Jumps Festa where SJ editors urged Kishi to make a heroine switch because Hinata was more popular and with all the hate mails they were getting. 

 

And what you may not know is that we NS and Sakura fans never rallied and came to Sakura's aid  because we were hoping that Kishi was not dumb enough to give in to the fans and editors. Oh boy we were wrong. There is nothing we westerners could have do about it but JP NS and Sakura fans could have supported Kishi if the leaked rumors about Shuiesha editors hate on Sakura and the ran an anti Sakura campaign towards the west are true. 

 

Rumors have he stated at the 2015 Jump Festa that SJ (not Shuiesha) editors suggested that he should go with NS because it was more logic. But kishi declined and stated that he couldn't make NS happen because of personal reasons. 

 

It makes us wonder if we Sakura fans have let him down that he went out of his way to mislead us as a retaliation of his dissatisfaction and to smite us for not having Sakura's back. Of course, there is nothing we westerners can do about it, but the JP fanbase is another story. If the Japs were dumb enough to submit hate mails to counter the anti Sakura fans, yeah nothing got through to Kishi. The JP Sakura fans should have protested and threaten Shueisha with a petition and be on the six o'clock news. Not even Shuiesha can hide that from Kishi. As for what we got, even though most of the blame goes to Kishi for giving up on Sakura too earlier without him doing research on his fandom to verify for himself if the entire world hates Sakura before pulling the plug on her, the Japanese NS and Sakura fanbase did very little or jack s*** to come to Sakura's aid.

 

And according to those rumors, Kishi fought very hard to try to win Sakura over with the support of other mangaka, but the Sakura Calvary and reinforcements (the fans) was no where to be found, so (not defending him) I can see why he's pissed off at us.

I kind of agree. where were the fans when sakura faced opposition that i am reading she had ... if i could have i would have been more supportive of her but i assumed the fanbase would act and i don't get why no one did. it seems like all this fanbase does is blame sp for what they think is bad animation but my instinct would be to monitor the manga and the writing because if that falls then good animation won't bring it back

[Nar123]

 
The hate played a big factor in all of no matter we choose to believe it or not. I'm do agree with this, but its also proven that Kishi could take Sakura's character to another level, in witch he did. She fought Sasori and its something that is not too shabby for an author who struggles to write female characters. I believe it is all this hate that has influenced Kishi not to develop her and the pressure that comes with it.

The hate just existed because Kishi couldnt develop her character properly

So its mostly his fault to begin with

[Emb3rs]

 

The hate played a big factor in all of no matter we choose to believe it or not. I'm do agree with this, but its also proven that Kishi could take Sakura's character to another level, in witch he did. She fought Sasori and its something that is not too shabby for an author who struggles to write female characters. I believe it is all this hate that has influenced Kishi not to develop her and the pressure that comes with it.

 

I agree, she started off well in Shippuden but due to Kishimoto not wanting her to get to far up the fanbase he cooled down on her development. He really is terrible with female characters because he endeared Sakura without wanting too. When he realized it apposed his goal of making Hinata canon he made her seem more cold, undeveloped and extremely susceptible to her emotions. Thats what i dislike of him. He made it clear he was adamant about the ending to his manga since his 2006 interview, yet he admitted to not knowing how the manga was going to get to the ending he wanted. Thats a far stectch, kind of like saying i know exactly what i want to do for christmas 6 years from now. it might be close to right but i might lose that train of though somewhere in those 6 years. I honeslty hoped the three would be the new age Sannin, but so much hate and little support came from Naruto fans that it makes me wonder if we are part to blame. Yet i think it wouldnt of mattered because if he was unwilling to change the ending to make more sense, while his own staff, fans, and even his wife didnt understand the logic behind the ending couples, then he woudlnt really car how loud our support for Sakura is. He would just use her as a stepping stone to get his ending smoothed out in a bad attempt to wrap up his ending.

[db84x]

The part that always plays in my mind is the point of origin. That will be the 2010 Shonen Jumps Festa where SJ editors urged Kishi to make a heroine switch because Hinata was more popular and with all the hate mails they were getting. 

 

And what you may not know is that we NS and Sakura fans never rallied and came to Sakura's aid  because we were hoping that Kishi was not dumb enough to give in to the fans and editors. Oh boy we were wrong. There is nothing we westerners could have do about it but JP NS and Sakura fans could have supported Kishi if the leaked rumors about Shuiesha editors hate on Sakura and the ran an anti Sakura campaign towards the west are true. 

 

Rumors have he stated at the 2015 Jump Festa that SJ (not Shuiesha) editors suggested that he should go with NS because it was more logic. But kishi declined and stated that he couldn't make NS happen because of personal reasons. 

 

It makes us wonder if we Sakura fans have let him down that he went out of his way to mislead us as a retaliation of his dissatisfaction and to smite us for not having Sakura's back. Of course, there is nothing we westerners can do about it, but the JP fanbase is another story. If the Japs were dumb enough to submit hate mails to counter the anti Sakura fans, yeah nothing got through to Kishi. The JP Sakura fans should have protested and threaten Shueisha with a petition and be on the six o'clock news. Not even Shuiesha can hide that from Kishi. As for what we got, even though most of the blame goes to Kishi for giving up on Sakura too earlier without him doing research on his fandom to verify for himself if the entire world hates Sakura before pulling the plug on her, the Japanese NS and Sakura fanbase did very little or jack s*** to come to Sakura's aid.

 

And according to those rumors, Kishi fought very hard to try to win Sakura over with the support of other mangaka, but the Sakura Calvary and reinforcements (the fans) was no where to be found, so (not defending him) I can see why he's pissed off at us.

 

Kishi indeed try made Sakura popular and he admit that he always want to made Sakura better character.  But Japan fans reaction is deeply negative, that not rumor but Kishi said himself.  Cursing Kishi not is too late since NS fans never gave him support when in time he need it most.  

Edited by db84x, 04 November 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[sushi.]

Sakura's development is standing still most of the time. Kishi gives her some points when it's convenient, just to push her back again. Her personality is dependent on who she is with. She has no substance. It is normal to change attitude when around an unhealthy relationship, but Kishi wrote her as a completely different character around Sasuke.
Then he has the gal to ask what is wrong and conclude that maybe she wasn't pretty enough.

I cannot comprehend why you are linking to those videos as if those two have any reading comprehension at all. They simply represent the mass, and their arguments are level 1 elementary school. Why they hate Sakura and stan Hinata at the same time is beyond me, since she is worse even for a side character. The only anti Sakura fans I've seen that doesn't dislike her for a personal or sexist reason are usually SNS fans, or those who doesn't like any other female character either. Kingoflightning made some good points in the past, but later videos have showed me he is too a little twathead.

Edited by sushi., 05 November 2015 - 02:25 PM.

[rocci]

@sushi
Sakura character need development the most.
If she doesn't get it than it just a waste of time.
But kishi tought make her pretty is more important than developing her.

[Emb3rs]

 

Kishi indeed try made Sakura popular and he admit that he always want to made Sakura better character.  But Japan fans reaction is deeply negative, that not rumor but Kishi said himself.  Cursing Kishi not is too late since NS fans never gave him support when in time he need it most.  

yes its true he had little support as far as im aware, but its hard for fans to support someone who was dead set on getting his ending without really caring about what he built in the manga. He obviously didnt want to build her up because in his interview he said he didnt understand why US fans liked Sakura. He also had support for Sakura from his own wife and some staff in Pierrot studio. He also admits to being bad at romance so as to why he was so keen on making NaruHina canon is a mystery to me. I would think an author of such a popular manga would learn to adapt rather then stick to an ending he made befoe even coming close to finishing his manga.

[Emb3rs]

Sakura's development is standing still most of the time. Kishi gives her some points when it's convenient, just to push her back again. Her personality is dependent on who she is with. She has no substance. It is normal to change attitude when around an unhealthy relationship, but Kishi wrote her as a completely different character around Sasuke.
Then he has the gal to ask what is wrong conclude that maybe she wasn't pretty enough.

I cannot comprehend why you are linking to those videos as if those two have any reading comprehension at all. They simply represent the mass, and they're arguments are level 1 elementary school. And why they hate Sakura and stan Hinata at the same time id beyond me, since she is worse even for a side character. The only anti Sakura fans I've seen that doesn't dislike her for a personal or sexist reason are usually SNS fans, or those who doesn't like any other female character either. Kingoflightning made some good points in the past, but later videos have showed me he is too a little twathead.

 

I linked those videos not because they offer well educated answers but because they show that even adamant NaruHina fans undestand the potential kishimoto threw out the window to shove his ending down our throats.

[rocci]

 
I linked those videos not because they offer well educated answers but because they show that even adamant NaruHina fans undestand the potential kishimoto threw out the window to shove his ending down our throats.

That's naruto is all about, waste potential.

[Emb3rs]

That's naruto is all about, waste potential.

It is, but i hope Kishimoto assists in the anime to write his wrongs even if its not canon. Road to Ninja is my favorite Naruto movie and its written by Kishimoto so it shows he is willing to work on non canon material.

[soraandven]

Sakura's development is standing still most of the time. Kishi gives her some points when it's convenient, just to push her back again. Her personality is dependent on who she is with. She has no substance. It is normal to change attitude when around an unhealthy relationship, but Kishi wrote her as a completely different character around Sasuke.
Then he has the gal to ask what is wrong conclude that maybe she wasn't pretty enough.

I cannot comprehend why you are linking to those videos as if those two have any reading comprehension at all. They simply represent the mass, and their arguments are level 1 elementary school. Why they hate Sakura and stan Hinata at the same time id beyond me, since she is worse even for a side character. The only anti Sakura fans I've seen that doesn't dislike her for a personal or sexist reason are usually SNS fans, or those who doesn't like any other female character either. Kingoflightning made some good points in the past, but later videos have showed me he is too a little twathead.

agreed sushi all fornever cares about is anime girls with big kittens because he's just that pathetic of a man lol also using youtube as a job is very risky in fact 2 days ago that brat double4 made a video saying his channel might get taken down due to copyrights and he's been verified on youtube for awhile but i guess even those types of channels have to worry and i don't feel bad for the kid at all

[soraandven]

Do you know Emily from until dawn?
That's sakura.

Kishi simply failed on her character.

 

Do you know Emily from until dawn?
That's sakura.

Kishi simply failed on her character.

emily was the worst in that game yet alot of fans bash ashley