6 replies to this topic

[Sora no Kitsune]

(Note: I'm pretty sure this is the right place for this thread but if not, please move to the apropriate location. Thank you.)

I recently took up (attempting) to learn japanese, thus starting with the simplest thing; numbers. However, i don't understand 4 and 7. Apparently 4 is either said as "shi" or "yon" and 7 is either "shichi" or "nana". Can anyone explain the diffrence in usage to me because i originally thought 4 was shi, but i soon found out yon is also 4 due to the name Yondiame. Is there a diffrence or is it basiclly a matter of prefrence?

Edited by zman170, 10 April 2009 - 01:39 AM.

[krisk]

HNNN WE NEED A HELP SECTION AMIRITE \:D/


and LOL how i wanna learn japanese so bad. It's pretty impressive that you've put it on yourself to try that lingo on for size! I'm still undecided on whether to learn French or Japanese for my BA.. Spanish would be most helpful but eh, the way it's turning out I think i'd piss off alotta people if I learned spanich XDXD also, Japanese would put me on high demand among da weeboos |D

ANYWAY here's help i found in the awesomesaucy land of Yahoo!Answers:

4 can be yon or shi
7 can be nana or shichi

As some of the other people said it depends on what you are counting. Sometimes you can use both sometimes one is more natural than the other.

Example yon gatsu (April) sounds strange. shi gatsu is better.

but you would normally say yon kai (4 times) rather than shi kai.

You just have to get used to these differences. There doesn't seem to be a rule as to why you use one or the other.

or

Both 'shi' and 'yon' are used for counting in Japanese. The reason there are two sounds is because there are two counting methods. When the Japanese asked the Chinese to teach them the characters, they often times adopted some form of Chinese sounds with the character. This dramatically changed the Japanese language long ago.

Now there are two main ways of counting in Japanese (1-10). The original system was hitotsu, futatsu, mitsu, yottsu (where yon comes from), itsutsu, mutsu, nanatsu, hatsu, kokonotsu, and tou. The adopted method from the Chinese sounds is ichi, ni, san, shi. go roku, shichi, hachi, kyuu, juu.

Now there are two reasons for four and seven being different. First off 'shi' and 'shichi' sound alike. To avoid confusion, many often use 'yon' and 'nana' to differentiate. Also, 'shi' means death in Japanese and just like we don't have a 13th floor in the West, many places don't have a 4th floor here in Japan.

Now some cases, shi and yon are completely enterchangable. You can count 'ichi, ni, san, shi... or 'ichi, ni, san, yon...'

When it comes to counters (stating a specific number of nouns) it may or may not be interchangeable.

Shigatsu (literally "4th Month" i.e. April). You CANNOT say 'yongatsu.'

Yonnin (lit four people). You CANNOT say "shinin."

Also some forms may mutate like 'yopyaku' (400) from yon (four) and hyaku (100).

Even the natives (and I growing up with Japanese as a second language) have trouble with these. So don't get frustrated. But as stated, when counting straight out, you can use either (I advise yon).

With counters, it is a case-by-case basis. No method at all.

-wa (used for counting birds) 'yomba'

-satsu (for books, magazines, or any bound volume) 'yonsatsu.'

-hiki (for small animals {cats, dogs, rabbits), fish, insects) 'shihiki'

-hon (long round objects like trees, pens, pencils, cigars, cigarettes, etc...) 'yonhon.'

-mai (flat things like paper, cloth, blankets, dishes), 'yomai'

-hai (cups full) 'yonhai' or 'shihai'

-ban (nights) 'yoban' (four nights)

-hako (boxes) 'yonhako' or 'yohako'

-gatsu (months) 'shigatsu' (April)

-kagetsu (duration of months) 'yonkagetsu' or 'shikagetsu' (four months)

-ji (time) 'yonji' (Four O'Clock)

-jikan (duration of hours) 'yonjikan' (four hours).

Too be honest, all numbers do this. You may have to say ichi, ich-, ipp-, hito-, hitotsu, for just the number 1. But four, seven and nine seem to be more radical in this and more perplexing.

Yeah, I know a lot of information to process but I think that should answer your question on many levels. Some cases it's both, some cases it's one or the other. Good luck with your studies.

AND LAST BECAUSE I GOT BORED BUT NOT LEAST!

I live here in Japan and although I don't speak the language fluently, this is how my friends talk. If counting, like 1,2,3,4,
then it's ichi, ni, san. shi. But if it's like referring to something like how many or what number then it's ichiban, niban, sanban, yonban, like 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Then if speaking about how many, then it's i ko, ni ko, san ko, yon ko. Confusing I know!

i KNOW that helped, dood. BD

It halped me and i'm still intimidateded of the ninja-language xD

[Sora no Kitsune]

Thanks dude I don't really get why they do this but hey, i can't question it so i guess ill just have to go with it Also, what did you mean by "We need a help section amirite"? I'm still new to the site so im still questioning what topics go where and i wanted to know if i placed it right.

[Cloud]

"Shi" not being said for Japanese is the same in Mandarin/Cantonese...

It just sounds the same as death... so we usually say 3+1 in Mandarin to avoid cursing the person

And Krisk, stick with Japanese! Cause I'll be taking it once I finish my major here.

[Onionhead Attacks]

Dude i want to take japanese once I finish most of my majorly hard classes, or alongside them so it's a nice break xD So don't give up!

And Cloud... I am so untraditional. I say four anyways

[Cloud]

Dude i want to take japanese once I finish most of my majorly hard classes, or alongside them so it's a nice break xD So don't give up!

And Cloud... I am so untraditional. I say four anyways

Don't worry, muimui. I do too. XD

Until my parents correct me.

[krisk]

Thanks dude I don't really get why they do this but hey, i can't question it so i guess ill just have to go with it Also, what did you mean by "We need a help section amirite"? I'm still new to the site so im still questioning what topics go where and i wanted to know if i placed it right.

WELL in the best interests of the general public, i'm just pondering the idea of having a sub- "help me plz" -section somewhere around here. For y'know quick questions like yours 8D

And Krisk, stick with Japanese! Cause I'll be taking it once I finish my major here.

INO. INO. Learning japanese would be the ULTIMATE! It also reminds me of a discussion I had with someone. I mean DOOD if I learn japancheez I'll be able to not be bored for awhile pursue my dream and bring alive a tsundere of my own animu! ...But then i was forbidden for [SPOILERSPOILER] reasons



...but that all stops when I think of how UNF French is... :<

Dude i want to take japanese once I finish most of my majorly hard classes, or alongside them so it's a nice break xD

WAH YOU CAN LEARN DA LINGUAGES FAST LIEK?

well I know you're fluent in two, so that might be what makes it so easy xD