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While in Akatsuki, how did Itachi 'protect' Konoha?


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#21 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:35 AM

This is why I love villain Itachi - the twisted, sadistic, and genious baddie we were introduced to!
And I don't like the sacrificial lamb Itachi - the one who was asspulled out for who.knows.why., with sins excused instead of explained.
 
I think Kishi struggles with writing grey characters, and the ItaSasu bond had great potential as this unhealthy and damaged, yet passionate and unbreakable brotherhood. Which is what it was, it's just too obvious we weren't supposed to think of it that way.


Itachi literally ruined Sasuke's life. I may not care for Sasuke much but I don't like when Itachi fans bash him as if he were any different. Itachi created the evil in Sasuke by torturing him trying to instill "hatred" in him to make him a "hero". Did he seriously think that would work? That's some twisted philosophy there. Even to the end did Itachi not foresee Sasuke finding out the truth of why he murdered their clan? He would've found out Konoha's secrets sooner or later especially with Naruto as Hokage. By not telling him he only made Sasuke feel even more guilty and like a murderer for killing his misunderstood brother. Itachi just did so many things wrong. >.> And why the hell did he never tell Kakashi that Tobi was Obito? Lol

#22 Tiller

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 08:47 AM

I also think that the story would have been better served had Itachi remained a true blue villain..... but then again I also think Sasuke staying a villain would have been a positive. The whole "turning into what you hate most" thing. But I've hijacked enough threads with that talk lol.



 


#23 AHK

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:26 PM

Itachi literally ruined Sasuke's life. I may not care for Sasuke much but I don't like when Itachi fans bash him as if he were any different. Itachi created the evil in Sasuke by torturing him trying to instill "hatred" in him to make him a "hero". Did he seriously think that would work? That's some twisted philosophy there. Even to the end did Itachi not foresee Sasuke finding out the truth of why he murdered their clan? He would've found out Konoha's secrets sooner or later especially with Naruto as Hokage. By not telling him he only made Sasuke feel even more guilty and like a murderer for killing his misunderstood brother. Itachi just did so many things wrong. >.> And why the hell did he never tell Kakashi that Tobi was Obito? Lol


I don't think Itachi knew about Obito. He always referred to him as Madara, and even told Sasuke that he was Madara. I think he was like Nagato and Konan in that regard.

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#24 tricksie

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 04:00 PM

I also think that the story would have been better served had Itachi remained a true blue villain..... but then again I also think Sasuke staying a villain would have been a positive. The whole "turning into what you hate most" thing. But I've hijacked enough threads with that talk lol.

 

Right, I think Itachi made a much better villain than he did a peace dove. As the reformed Itachi, all he did was spout advice to Naruto that he never followed himself. It's ironic, because just as Sasuke was the one to go to the Namikaze secret clan compound instead of Naruto, Naruto was the one to be council and coached by Itachi, not Sasuke. 

 

I liked Itachi best as the villain. I think he would have been more convincing in his reformed edo-tensei state if he had been presented to be at least a little torn about his choices while he was alive. Or if at the very end we could have seen a few panels of him working for Konoha. Instead, we got the Kishimoto special: Itachi was bad until Kishi decided he was good. And then he was good, no matter what he'd done before.

 

As for Sasuke, he seemed the opposite, to never truly commit to the dark side. There were always too many ways out, too many convenient excuses. He didn't kill very many people, he didn't follow through on his threats (which btw he changed with whiplash regularity). He was manipulated by everyone he knew, and he railed against that, but he was never able to fully overcome it. 

 

Rewriting Itachi and Sasuke:

 

If it had been better written, Itachi could have been a convincing villain who was slowly revealed to have more backstory and conflicted interests than was on the surface, as seen from the point of view of Sasuke's childhood rage as it was presented first to the reader. Then when Sasuke finally challenges Itachi, the reader has a sinking feeling that something is not right about this. That Itachi's saying things that make too much sense, until even Sasuke can't ignore it. But he smothers his doubt because he's too far in to back out now.  He kills Itachi in a rage, ignoring everything Itachi's saying and everything that's inside him telling him to be cautious and hear him out. And in that moment, Sasuke learns the truth about Itachi (through a deathbed confession from Itachi), and Sasuke's role as the new rageful vindictive villain of the series is cemented. He is still the avenger, only this time he is adding his brother's death on to the roll of lives taken by Konoha. And from there on, he joins the Akatsuki and forms his team with the sole purpose of taking down the elders of Konoha and anyone else who stands in his way. He rampages for a while, killing off heads of state, until he mellows out and realizes that instead of unseating the powers that be, he should become the ultimate powerhouse. He should control a village, a country. And he sets his sights on Konoha, determined to that only he can better rule the village that ordered the execution of his family. And he has a deep sense that the position is owed to him anyway, being the last Uchiha, the one that Itachi bargained the lives of all his clan for. The Hokage seat should be his, and he is determined to take. But in doing that he will be locked in a rivalry with the one person who's ever been a challenge: Naruto.

 

Of course, this takes out the element of redemption in Sasuke's storyline. So Naruto would have to work extra hard to keep his goal of rescuing Sasuke from the darkness. And as in the manga, Itachi couldn't step in a redeem Sasuke and make Naruto's task easier. Naruto would have to do the hard work all on his own.

 

Anyway, to me, by adding those dynamics to Sasuke and Itachi's relationship it would have been easier to follow in the manga instead of the mishmash of reasoning we were handed. 

 

I don't think Itachi knew about Obito. He always referred to him as Madara, and even told Sasuke that he was Madara. I think he was like Nagato and Konan in that regard.

 

I wonder. Obito said Itachi was always thinking several steps ahead, even in death. So I wouldn't be surprised if he did know. Especially since he would have grown up with Obito in the Uchiha clan. And he would have known Tobi's antics were just an act, if Itachi also knew he was Madara. So it's not too big of a leap to think he was doing all that silly behavior for a purpose.

 

 

But I don't think there's any way we could know for certain whether Itachi did or did not know Tobi's true identity. 



#25 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 04:39 PM

I don't think Itachi knew about Obito. He always referred to him as Madara, and even told Sasuke that he was Madara. I think he was like Nagato and Konan in that regard.


So he never figured out the Akatsuki leader's true identity and sent the info to Konoha. So much for being a genius spy. He also lied to Sasuke when he said the real Madara Uchiha was still alive. The guy was dead and had to be brought back Edo tensei lol.

#26 Narufan85

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 09:49 PM

I'm not trying to start an argument with Aizen-Sama, I swear, but I really don't understand the Snape love. Is it because Alan Rickman did a good job creating the film version of Snape? Is it the filler scenes of him holding Lily's dead body? I don't get it. I can't excuse the verbal abuse he levied on Harry, Hermione, Neville, etc. Nor can I excuse, as someone who is involved in education myself, his poor teaching. Oh well. Maybe I'll start a HP thread...

 

 

This is why I love villain Itachi - the twisted, sadistic, and genious baddie we were introduced to!

And I don't like the sacrificial lamb Itachi - the one who was asspulled out for who.knows.why., with sins excused instead of explained.

 

I think Kishi struggles with writing grey characters, and the ItaSasu bond had great potential as this unhealthy and damaged, yet passionate and unbreakable brotherhood. Which is what it was, it's just too obvious we weren't supposed to think of it that way.

 

This is a great point. Kishi has so much trouble with grey characters. He needs to take a page from the book of George R.R. Martin. One reason A Song of Ice and Fire is so magnificent (and one reason I dislike the show version so much) is because almost all the characters are some shade of grey. Some are evil, like the Mountain, but most operate within that murky middle ground that is real life. Kishi can't do this. Moreover, one failing of Naruto is Kishi's inability to let bad guys be actual bad guys. The redemption narrative is problematic. Itachi was such a great villain, by trying to turn him into some savior, it muddles his overall arc and weakens the story.



#27 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:48 AM

I didn't mind that much of Itachi being the sacrifice. However, it got worse when he was edo tensei later on. That part not only ruined his demise as a tragic but also make him look like a good guy all around, rather than his reasoning alone along with politics is what made him do this.

#28 luffyq1

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 01:28 AM

never looked like a double agent to me, even when his back story was revealed. 


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#29 Therece

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 02:08 AM

Itachi kill his whole clan included his Mother and Father in front of Sasuke
Tortured Sasuke constantly with a brutal Tsukuyomi.
Tell Sasuke to kill his best friend
Tell Sasuke to dedicate his existence to vengeance
Itachi was a criminal who helped akatsuki to seal all the bijuus.

 

Itachi is the major responsible for what sasuke's become in the end.
Itachi murdering his entire family and manipulating his younger brother until he’s driven to the brink of insanity.
Naruto should be dead at the end of Part 1 if Sasuke actually  follow Itachi's order to kill his best friend.


He mentally and emotionally tortured Sasuke yet expected him to turn out well adjusted. He intended to have him kill his friend, leading him to be a murderer and traitor, but expected this to turn him into a hero for Konoha. None of that makes any sense.

 

 

Itachi was a brutal, mindraping, genocidal thug and an extremely vicious madman who was complicit in multiple Obito atrocities and sat on his ass for 10 years in the Akatsuki and basically slept on the job.


He was so cold hearted, that he went cold turkey with his "job" to spy on the Akatsuki, and thus he indirectly declared war on humanity. Itachi Killed 7 jinchuurikins when he helped akatsuki to extract the bijuus

He killed a lot innocent people from Uchiha Clan including his mother to supposed protect Konoha.
But when he encounters a true enemy Orochimaru and has the chance to kill him to protect Konoha.
itachi left him alive to later Orochimaru destroy Konoha and kill the sandaime Hokage and try to steal the body of his brother

Itachi should always be a villain. But Kishimoto tried to made this guy a Hero and Saint.
 

Kishimoto tried to add in a twist, but failed to adequately cover his back in terms of what he had already established in the story. This poor twist plot made Itachi transforms in a horrible character.


Edited by Therece, 25 February 2015 - 02:30 AM.


#30 Itachimack

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 02:50 PM

So I've been thinking about this, what exactly did Itachi do, while in Akatsuki, to protect Konoha?
 
I know it was stated that he was a spy/secret agent/protector, but I've wracked my brains and I can't think of a single thing that he did that was 'protective.'
 
No one knew he was still loyal to Konoha. He never brought info back. He never prevented attacks from happening. He hunted Naruto. He tortured Sasuke, mentally and physically. And he almost killed Kakashi.
 
In fact, if he left the village to make Sasuke stronger, then it backfired horribly. Sasuke sought out and was manipulated by Orochimaru. So when Itachi and Sasuke finally clashed, Itachi had to draw out Orochimaru's toxic curse mark which isn't exactly a kindness since Itachi drove him to Orochimaru in the first place. And Itachi didn't repair anything with Sasuke, offer any kind of explanation, instead he left it all to Tobi (whom he also tried to kill through a jutsu planted in Sasuke). If he'd succeeded, then Sasuke never would have known of Itachi's supposed kindness. 
 
And acutally, Sasuke could have probably gotten on with his life at that point.
 
Anyway, how exactly was Itachi protecting anything by going to Akatsuki? How was he a supposed double agent or still loyal to Konoha if he never acted on it? And if he did it for Sasuke, then why didn't he make a greater effort to protect him from harm or at least explain why?



Alright so I feel that this is super late but as I was reading through the replies I didn't real see anyone with this viewpoint so I decided to add my insight


First of all I'm going to tackle his attempt to take Naruto, ok lets start from the beggining where he first arrived in the village. He was confronted by Kakashi Kurenai and guy, you brought up the fact that he nearly killed kakashi but that's another sign that he has more to his character because in the position he could have killed him without issue but decided against it (this also served as a warning to Danzo basically telling him that has still around and not to double cross him in the manner of saskue)

Alright then trying to take Naruto again Naruto knew nothing of genjutsu and would have easily been taken but instead itachi simply made it look like he put in an effort to not raise suspicion


Loyal to the village
While he did not communicate with village elders he did I'm fact keep the village safe from a matter that they could not handle. That being if any other group was assigned with the mission to take Mark to they would have done it and probably slaughter a great number of people to do it but since itachi insisted on taking the mission there were no casulties

In the torture of Saskue think about the source of the Uchiha's power,its literally fueled by rage and betrayal and you claim that it was a mistake for Saskue to run off with Orichimaru but I feel that was planned out. Orichimaru gave Saskue power that he would not achieve normally and itachi knew he would be able to draw out orichimarus curse.


Keeping it a secret
The fact as to why he intended no one to know was explained by Tobi (hence the attempt to kill him to keep it from happening) it was so that Assume could feel like he acomplished his goal and return to the village with the powers that he gained as he seeked vengance but since tobi survived itachi's fear came a reality since he knew of Saskue found out he would swear a vendetta against the leaf

Hope this helped and feel free to contact me if you wish to further discuss this I've always been a huge itachi fan and I know I'm missing some key points that if I rack my brain I can recall so of I left anything unanswered let me know!

#31 posho

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 07:19 PM

Seriously is it even a discussion. All I see retard people, kishi plans or not plans he has created immensely defined characters, every character, the situation they face and the choice they make upon those situation and events are so much well defined, even after jk after planning everything in hp comes nowhere near of majesticness of kishi.
Itachi had a choice to kill a clan avoid war or keep clan and face war. He left sasuke becasue he could left as he had no knowledge of coup d'etat.
After killing clan he had far less choices left to do. And while he was living akatsuki was no threat to konoha. So he had no intel to share with them. If he wanted to he could have kidnapped naruto easily, he did not. He beats sasuke and tortured him for sasuke to grow stronger and stronger and hate him more and more, as sasukes hate to itachi would have made him for konoha with deep bonds. Not every single detail is mentioned, but as itachi is he knew orochimaru will never kill sasuke, he knew that someday sasuke will surpass orochimaru in capablities.
Itachi gave naruto kotoamatsuki. He planted amaterus in sasukes eye for he should never becaome aware of clan massacre and he never should think ill of village in anyway.
Now what the kitten one can even think he had even slightest villain side in him. kitten it entirely

#32 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:43 PM

If you wanted the whole "double agent" aspect, then maybe they could have used something like Pvt. Allen in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, where he's recruited by the CIA to be planted next to Vladimir Makarov, the (new) main antagonist and thus, in order to keep playing the part, be forced to participate in some horrendous deeds like the massacre at the airport, only for an "I knew you were a spy all along!" moment from Nagato or something and Itachi is killed, which can lead to Itachi's actual motivations being found out bit by bit by the other characters.

I dunno, just some random thinking, lol.


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