749 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Actually, when Kurama was explaining the particulars of making use of both Sage Mode and the tailed mode, his wording denoted that they would be used simultaneously, not that they would be melded together.

Kurama: "That time you were using Hermit Mode, but my chakra was flowing out too much and it managed to sync with your Hermit power."

Wikipedia definition of Synchronize/Sync: the coordination of events to operate a system in unison.

In other words, the two modes are acting independently from each other. Their only common variable is Naruto who is literally using two different types of chakra control at once (three if you include his own reserves). If the two chakras were being mixed together then the explanation would have been worded differently. Kurama made a clear distinction between the senjutsu arts and his own power.

I understand what sync is but it's not a good explanation for that anyway, it's like Naruto using two chakra at the same time, when Naruto goes on the kyuubi mode he's only using the kyuubi chakra which is explained here.

 

http://i15.mangaread...uto-1582703.jpg

 

Naruto is shelving his own chakra in other mean, it's stored while he's using the kyuubi chakra, the sage mode syncing explanation means that he's using both his chakra and the kyuubi's which doesnt make sense according to his previous explanations.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 September 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[Don-kun]

I think Karin's illustration in this chapter is very revealing. Kishimoto does not take her seriously. And therefore neither should we. 

 

Her pervy attitude is similar to Jiraiya's toward women (excluding Tsunade). I wouldn't compare Karin to Sakura at any part in the manga, simply because Sakura was serious about Sasuke. Not just as a lecherous crush, but about being his girlfriend, etc. Even offering to change her nature to better suit him as a partner.

 

Jiraiya's love of Tsunade was the same way. It was serious business, and in the end he was willing to change himself to be a better partner to her. (Even though he had the pervy side, it was only toward casual acquaintances. Not his true love, Tsunade.)

 

However, with Karin, she's never been shown to want more from Sasuke than the physical. And the physical side is shown as lecherous as you can get. She has never reflected on how might be a better partner for Sasuke, no internal dialogue, and she has never outwardly changed to better suit him.

 

I think Kishimoto is illustrating Karin as exactly the character she is: Someone who doesn't have any allegiances except to herself. She doesn't care that it's the middle of the war. And she doesn't really care that Sasuke's not into her. She still wants to jump his bones. And right now, probably the only reason she's even participating is the thought that she might have a shot at it. 

 

I think this scene was meant as a moment of levity in the midst of a war chapter. But as a character, if Kishimoto's no longer taking her development seriously, then neither will I. 

I think the same way you do regarding Karin, lately Kishimoto is making her nothing but a joke and in a way is kind of sad.

Also what's up with Naruto thinking about Sasuke that way, to me it was way out of places since Sasuke is not going against them or him I understand him thinking about his lost but Sasuke I mean Sasuke is right there helping you, he is not dead or fighthing against the good guys.

[Atheck]

I understand what sync is but it's not a good explanation for that anyway,

Sure it is, provided you read the entire explanation and then pay close attention to Naruto's chakra usage afterwards as he's fighting beside Minato. The two jutsu that were used both required the implementation of sage chakra after having already been formed. But why would this be necessary if sage chakra and Kurama's own supply were already combined together? It's obvious that despite Naruto having mastered control over simultaneously using the forms that he still needs to coordinate when to use chakra from each source instead of just premixing them together.
 

it's like Naruto using two chakra at the same time, when Naruto goes on the kyuubi mode he's only using the kyuubi chakra which is explained here.
 
http://i15.mangaread...uto-1582703.jpg

True, but he would still need to remain vigilant of his own reserves since Gyuki mentioned that Kurama would be consuming Naruto's chakra as a form of compensation. Meaning that his usage of bijuu would need to be harmoniously balanced with the amount he is willing to sacrifice from his own reserves.
 

Naruto is shelving his own chakra in other mean, it's stored while he's using the kyuubi chakra, the sage mode syncing explanation means that he's using both his chakra and the kyuubi's which doesnt make sense according to his previous explanations.

This is true. I suppose it would be prudent to look at the circumstances of his mode at that time and weigh them against his mastered form. Back then Naruto and Kurama were still at odds with each other. The bijuu's chakra had to be forcibly extracted and then isolated in an unknown area of Naruto's mind. Having already felt begrudged towards him, Kurama would have sound motivation to remove chakra from Naruto's own reserves as an act of spite.

Now fast forward to the recent chapters and you have jinchuuriki having reached an agreement with his bijuu. They're now functioning together as a team and the bijuu's chakra no longer has to be stolen or separated. We also shouldn't forget that Naruto removed the seal that was suppressing Kurama's chakra. The seal that was elaborated on when it was said that a small portion of chakra seeps through and combines with Naruto's.

So Naruto's ability to use Kurama's chakra without having to first shelve his own pool can be attributed to his newly formed acquaintanceship with Kurama and releasing the seal that restricted the amount of chakra that could be used. When I look back over that chapter I realised that the method for gaining the bijuu's power was procedurally different than what it is now.

Edited by Atheck, 18 September 2013 - 11:42 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Sure it is, provided you read the entire explanation and then pay close attention to Naruto's chakra usage afterwards as he's fighting beside Minato. The two jutsu that were used both required the implementation of sage chakra after having already been formed. But why would this be necessary if sage chakra and Kurama's own supply were already combined together? It's obvious that despite Naruto having mastered control over simultaneously using the forms that he still needs to coordinate when to use chakra from each source instead of just premixing t

He added sage chakra to a jutsu that was formed afterwards, when during his fight with pain, senjutsu was already on his jutsu, that's entirely different and there's no explanation to that other than overriding the previous explanation about senjutsu.

He's not even mixing it, yet he's just use kyuubi chakra and despite still using the kyuubi chakra he add the senjutsu from his own chakra pool which due to Bee explanation should be stored instead of being used.

So according to that Naruto should not be using his own chakra, he has to stop using the kyuubi chakra in order to perform senjutsu which makes sense to the senjutsu/kyuubi thing, the only thing that i get from this is that kishi decided yet again to break another rule to make senjutsu usable by Naruto, which was one of the critics Naruto character received since senjutsu was only important during the fight with Pain and then was quickly discarded to show only on the bijuu's fight on a decent level of importance.

 

 

This is true. I suppose it would be prudent to look at the circumstances of his mode at that time and weigh them against his mastered form. Back then Naruto and Kurama were still at odds with each other. The bijuu's chakra had to be forcibly extracted and then isolated in an unknown area of Naruto's mind. Having already felt begrudged towards him, Kurama would have sound motivation to remove chakra from Naruto's own reserves as an act of spite.
 

And yet it didnt changed at all, the difference is that Kyuubi is not consuming Naruto's chakra anymore which allows Naruto to theorically be capable of switching his fighting style and more important if the kyuubi chakra runs out he still can keep fighting because he didnt wasted his chakra.

The fact is that Naruto should not be capable of using both chakras at the same time, it goes against the whole chakra thing and Kishi is not giving a kitten about his own rules which is pissing me off.

 

 

So Naruto's ability to use Kurama's chakra without having to first shelve his own pool can be attributed to his newly formed acquaintanceship with Kurama and releasing the seal that restricted the amount of chakra that could be used. When I look back over that chapter I realised that the method for gaining the bijuu's power was procedurally different than what it is now.

 

The kyuubi is still sealed into Naruto, the difference is that the kyuubi is not being supressed with his chakra being forcibly extracted, hence the fact there's no cage but the premise of his chakra flowing though his seal to let Naruto be able to use it, still stands.

Only the shape changed but the seal is still there.

 

I would accept a explanation where kishi says that the kyuubi can absorb natural energy and mix with the kyuubi chakra, instead of syncing due to it's empathy with the Natural chakra, (empowered Yamato's mokuton).

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 September 2013 - 12:19 AM.

[rocci]

Karin is like harlequin, for more or less. A crazy Girl and I like it. I think if kishi didn't make her say enough is enough than people will not "disappoint"(somehow) with her character.

About senjutsu, all jutsu is learnable even kekkei genkai. If kishi intent to make sage mode only exclusive to naruto, than kishi shouldn't make snake sm, which in turn automatically make slug sm exist.

About bsm, I though bsm will become naruto last power up, but since the revelation is so trivial, than I suspect we will get another power up mode and my guess is rikudo jinchuriki mode.
Oh it's pretty foreshadowing that naruto will gain bijuu sage mode.

Just my opinion.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Karin is like harlequin, for more or less. A crazy Girl and I like it. I think if kishi didn't make her say enough is enough than people will not "disappoint"(somehow) with her character.

About senjutsu, all jutsu is learnable even kekkei genkai. If kishi intent to make sage mode only exclusive to naruto, than kishi shouldn't make snake sm, which in turn automatically make slug sm exist.

About bsm, I though bsm will become naruto last power up, but since the revelation is so trivial, than I suspect we will get another power up mode and my guess is rikudo jinchuriki mode.
Oh it's pretty foreshadowing that naruto will gain bijuu sage mode.

Just my opinion.

It got more obvious that, i think Sakura can learn the senjutsu although it's up to kishi if he wants that or not because its due to her role if he gives then she should not receive it to not fight like she's doing recently.

She got a powerup and her shining moment didnt last for one chapter.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 September 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

I can't understand how Karin's feelings for Sasuke are more reasonable than Sakura.

 

Karin was saved by Sasuke and she fell in love with him. I get this. 

 

The same could easily be applied to Sakura too. At first, her feelings for him were shallow but it grew as she and Sasuke worked together through life and death. Sasuke saved her life sacrificing his own. Forest of Death anyone? Also, not to mention, when Sakura was losing confidence, Sasuke was there to help her. "Sakura, your genjutsu abilities are the best in our team. You can solve this can't you?" I'm not a SS fan or anything, but in part 1 I could understand why Sakura will fall in love with him. Sasuke's attitude in part 2 doesn't automatically erase the Sasuke's caring past. 

 

To me, Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke in part 1, had much more basis than Karin's. 

 

Also, about Karin being able to talk towards Sasuke.

 

The same could be said for Sakura too. When Sasuke was freaked out by Orochimaru, she shouted to him, "At least Naruto isn't a coward!" It made him realize that he had to fight if he was going to reach his brother. The recent one was in the land of Iron. When Sasuke accused Naruto of not understanding, Sakura got mad and shouted at him. 

 

To me SS, and SK are both nearly the same. And I hate both couples. SK will try to make SS look like the worse one, SS will try to make SK look like the worse one. Honestly, there both the same imo. 

[Nate River]

I understand what you're saying, and it is a valid point that Sakura and Karin cannot really be compared (and I only said "a little bit"), but I'm not sure we reach agreement for the same reasons.
 
My view of Sakura's original attraction to Sasuke is that it wasn't based on more than the physical, either.  It wasn't as pervy as Karin is now, since Sakura was only 11 or whatever, but the first revelation we got from Inner Sakura was, "Today I'm going to get Sasuke-kun, and I'm going to steal his first kiss!!"  Not exactly deep, even if she later said she was "serious" about Sasuke.
 
And I would argue that Karin's affection for Sasuke (however retconned it might be) had a better foundation than Sakura's did initially, since Sasuke at least saved Karin from the bear in the Forest of Death and she had a reason to immediately appreciate him.  When Sakura was first interested in him, it was not based on any personal interaction or knowledge -- only that he was the aloof, cool genius who all the other girls fancied.  (That would change later, of course, when Sakura was teamed with Sasuke and realized there was more to him than his looks and coolness, and she began to feel for him as a person.)
 
I've said this too many times already, but I don't think Karin should be expected to be normal, neither should her behavior be judged on the same scale as Sakura or any other girl in the story.  Karin is very damaged, and even in her chapter debut Suigetsu tells Sasuke that Karin is not normal because she was "experimented on a lot."  
 
Since the moment we met Karin as an "adult" she has been characterized pretty consistently, in my opinion.  Kishimoto might not be developing her, but how does such a damaged creature develop?  We haven't seen any in Suigetsu or Jugo, either.  That's part of the problem with Team Not Seven.  What real purpose do they serve other than to show the depth to which Sasuke has sunk for companionship and minions to control?  What purpose does Karin serve other than, as I said before, show how damaged a girl would have to be to continue pursuing Sasuke as a guy worth getting for any reason at all? 
 
Sakura is the "normal" character, according to Kishimoto, right?  She's the girl without a terrible childhood or any personal hardships to speak of, at least until she became a ninja.  Karin was an orphan, one who was collected by Orochimaru and turned into a lab rat.  Based on that, I wouldn't expect Karin to have any allegiances, except possibly to Orochimaru as has been demonstrated.  But deep and moral allegiances like the other characters?  We haven't been shown that she's capable or even knows what that really means.
 
Point being, I do expect more from Sakura.  That's why I think having Karin's fangirling of Sasuke is a good reminder that we expect to see that Sakura has grown in that department as well, and that Sasuke is the road for the damaged and shouldn't be traveled by a girl with better sensibilities and options.
 
Just my opinion.

I think focusing on her comparison to Sakura is immaterial.

It's almost insulting as reader I'm expected to see humor in it as if him leaving her dying on the forest floor never happened. A seminal moment in Sasuke's fall was committing that act, but Karin's character doesn't seemed to bothered by the whole thing, so in retrospect I guess him stabbing a vulnerable hostage and leaving her die because he couldn't be bothered expending the effort to finish the deed isn't such a big deal. It's hard to put a ton of stock in his descent when the character who was supposed to chronicle it doesn't.

It's one thing for Karin to be comic relief (and even that wasn't funny), it's another matter entirely to have the subject be over the guy who tried to kill her. I'm sure most people on this board are familiar with the concept of Battered Woman Syndrome even if they don't know it by name. It immediately comes to mind when I watch this except that Kishimoto is either totally unfamiliar with it or simply can be bothered to care about it. Once he ventured there, it was no longer a subject appropriate for comic relief.

I wish I could take tricksie's approach and simply not take her seriously. But it's just terrible writing to continue pretend that it isn't an issue or that pathetic excuse of an apology is sufficient. It's complete dreck and he's a better writer than that.
 

've said this too many times already, but I don't think Karin should be expected to be normal, neither should her behavior be judged on the same scale as Sakura or any other girl in the story. Karin is very damaged, and even in her chapter debut Suigetsu tells Sasuke that Karin is not normal because she was "experimented on a lot."

I'd hate her character regardless, but I wouldn't be so vexed if he was actually attempting to demonstrate stuff like this. I don't think it has a serious point or is trying to demonstrate anything. She's damaged, but such scenes aren't meant to drive that point home, they are there to make us giggle. I can't reconcile those two concepts into the same panel. I cannot look at a panel crafted to make people laugh and at the same time see an attempt to show the audience how damaged an individual she because that is a serious matter that requires at least some semblance of serious treatment. Even the famed recompilation devolved into comedy.
 

Karin has NEVER changed herself for Sasuke or anybody for that matter. She has held firm to her character from her introduction to current. This to me is what makes her a strong character. She doesn't change for anyone or anything.

My chronic PI and DWI cases say similar things. Maybe that's how they get enhanced PI and DWI charges. She doesn't need to change for Sasuke, but maybe finding some self-awareness and self-respect for herself wouldn't hurt.

I cannot recall the last time someone ever said holding firm to their lust for their abuser a good thing. People usually consider it a tragedy when people engage in the behavior she is. Of course, Kishimoto appears to consider it a lark.

I can understand forgiveness and letting go of hate. Just because you do those doesn't mean you still want anything to do with them. I can't understand the stuff he's actually doing.

[rocci]

@darkrest
If kishi really give her ssm than I predict in the next arc sakura will fight someone else, and I think it would be orochimaru. Maybe kishi probability would skip it.

Now I believe sakura will gain ssm, but she will rely on her seal to perform it. And that's why I believe she can only enter it once.

[Hiraishin]

I can't understand how Karin's feelings for Sasuke are more reasonable than Sakura.

 

Karin was saved by Sasuke and she fell in love with him. I get this. 

 

The same could easily be applied to Sakura too. At first, her feelings for him were shallow but it grew as she and Sasuke worked together through life and death. Sasuke saved her life sacrificing his own. Forest of Death anyone? Also, not to mention, when Sakura was losing confidence, Sasuke was there to help her. "Sakura, your genjutsu abilities are the best in our team. You can solve this can't you?" I'm not a SS fan or anything, but in part 1 I could understand why Sakura will fall in love with him. Sasuke's attitude in part 2 doesn't automatically erase the Sasuke's caring past. 

 

To me, Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke in part 1, had much more basis than Karin's. 

 

Also, about Karin being able to talk towards Sasuke.

 

The same could be said for Sakura too. When Sasuke was freaked out by Orochimaru, she shouted to him, "At least Naruto isn't a coward!" It made him realize that he had to fight if he was going to reach his brother. The recent one was in the land of Iron. When Sasuke accused Naruto of not understanding, Sakura got mad and shouted at him. 

 

To me SS, and SK are both nearly the same. And I hate both couples. SK will try to make SS look like the worse one, SS will try to make SK look like the worse one. Honestly, there both the same imo. 

I love this post, I agree wholeheartedly. Except for the bit about being able to understand why Sakura fell in love with Sasuke in part I. He was quite cold to her a number of times, and she even thought he hated her. But I guess that's twelve year old girls for ya.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I can't understand how Karin's feelings for Sasuke are more reasonable than Sakura.

 

Karin was saved by Sasuke and she fell in love with him. I get this. 

 

The same could easily be applied to Sakura too. At first, her feelings for him were shallow but it grew as she and Sasuke worked together through life and death. Sasuke saved her life sacrificing his own. Forest of Death anyone? Also, not to mention, when Sakura was losing confidence, Sasuke was there to help her. "Sakura, your genjutsu abilities are the best in our team. You can solve this can't you?" I'm not a SS fan or anything, but in part 1 I could understand why Sakura will fall in love with him. Sasuke's attitude in part 2 doesn't automatically erase the Sasuke's caring past. 

 

To me, Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke in part 1, had much more basis than Karin's. 

 

Also, about Karin being able to talk towards Sasuke.

 

The same could be said for Sakura too. When Sasuke was freaked out by Orochimaru, she shouted to him, "At least Naruto isn't a coward!" It made him realize that he had to fight if he was going to reach his brother. The recent one was in the land of Iron. When Sasuke accused Naruto of not understanding, Sakura got mad and shouted at him. 

 

To me SS, and SK are both nearly the same. And I hate both couples. SK will try to make SS look like the worse one, SS will try to make SK look like the worse one. Honestly, there both the same imo. 

I wish i could agree but the fact is that everything between Sasuke and Sakura is summed up on her confession and the summit, she only said she was happy because of the team 7, and despite all that she even on her own confession to him could not say why she loves Sasuke, she only said she loves him too much, and on her confession on the end she said that she thought he hated her and she was an annoyance, then the moment where her feelings become serious was when Sasuke acknowledged her on the "thank you".

Despite being selfish her feelings, due to the summit the thank you had a big role on her love for him, woud be reasonable for those moments to be put on her flashbacks on him but they were not bought up, only her infatuation moments and the thank you.

 

the only thing that i see this on that every girl, Sakura, Ino, Hinata and even Karin doesnt have self respect.

 

She made me rage when she called Naruto a fool for loving her, on the meantime we have Sasuke doing bad things to her and she doesnt get the same conclusion.

Ino saying that her love for Sasuke is perfect, despite never being capable of seeing him for three years.

Karin going on fangirl mode everytime Sasuke is around, despite he pierced her with a chidori and later tried to kill her.

Hinata on her desire to do something to Naruto at any cost but doenst look at her own problems.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 September 2013 - 12:50 AM.

[Superman333]

well those two little times sure doesn't  make up for all the times afterwards lols . him stepping on her apples that she made for him , him telling her that she's even weaker than Naruto , that she's annoying , telling her basically no thank you to her confession , him telling her mind her own business after she was concerned about the mark , him slapping the apples from her hand . he could honestly care less about Sakura-Chan's feelings imo . she knows Sasuke hates her so those two points FOD and the genjutsu comment didn't mean much if she still thought he hates her .  she doesn't know why she loves him , she has no reason to love him , she can't come up with a reason why she loves him .  But she sure did give reasons as why she couldn't "love" him any more . 

Edited by Superman333, 19 September 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[Atheck]

He added sage chakra to a jutsu that was formed afterwards, when during his fight with pain, senjutsu was already on his jutsu, that's entirely different and there's no explanation to that other than overriding the previous explanation about senjutsu.

Only because at that time he was implementing natural energy into the chakra formation process occurring inside of his body. There wasn't a constant transitional period occurring to switch between different modes like what Naruto has been experiencing throughout this entire war.

Kurama is an entirely different entity with his own reservoir of chakra. That energy was implied to be miscible with Naruto's via the seal but when Naruto depleted a portion of that chakra for his own purposes the seal had no relevance to method of attainment excluding its removal as a barrier in order to reach the source of strength.
 

He's not even mixing it, yet he's just use kyuubi chakra and despite still using the kyuubi chakra he add the senjutsu form his own chakra pool which due to Bee explanation should be stored instead of being used. So according to that Naruto should not be using his own chakra, he has to stop using the kyuubi chakra in order to perform senjutsu which makes sense to the senjutsu/kyuubi thing, the only thing that i get from this is that kishi decided yet again to break another rule to make senjutsu usable by Naruto, which was one of the critics Naruto character received since senjutsu was only important during the fight with Pain and then was quickly discarded to show only on the bijuu's fight on a decent level of importance.

I already explained the reasoning for this. When Naruto first started using Kurama's chakra he needed to insulate it. This was clearly shown in the chapter you referenced. Because of Kurama's malicious nature, simultaneous usage of bijuu and regular chakra was impossible. But when they started to work together and Kurama was released from his prison, that restriction was lifted. Kurama is directly linking his chakra to Naruto now. It doesn't have to be isolated anymore and the bijuu chakra can be used at the same time when Naruto is moulding sage chakra from his own system.

Basically it's two different entities releasing chakra from the same body. Which is unlike before where Naruto was having to counteract the drainage of an actively hostile beast who was eating away at his chakra whilst juggling between two separated sources of power.
 

About senjutsu, all jutsu is learnable even kekkei genkai.

With the exclusion of anyone who doesn't have the Rinnegan, the Jubi, or the genetic material of someone with said ability, that statement is false. Kakashi explained back at the beginning of the manga in #25 that Kekkei Genkai was an hereditary ability passed down to those of the same blood; it isn't learnable to anyone except those with the aforementioned conditions. 
 

If kishi intent to make sage mode only exclusive to naruto, than kishi shouldn't make snake sm, which in turn automatically make slug sm exist.

It's not an issue of exclusivity or uniqueness. You need to follow a particular set of guidelines in order to be capable of properly developing sage chakra. Guidelines which Sakura is unable to provably meet with her current abilities.
 

About bsm, I though bsm will become naruto last power up, but since the revelation is so trivial, than I suspect we will get another power up mode and my guess is rikudo jinchuriki mode.
Oh it's pretty foreshadowing that naruto will gain bijuu sage mode.

The only other power up that Naruto can feasibly receive that would fall in line with his current technique, fighting style, personality, and narrative significance would be Yin Kurama rejoining with his Yang half to create the original nine tailed bijuu.

[redragon88]

Also, about Karin being able to talk towards Sasuke.

 

The same could be said for Sakura too. When Sasuke was freaked out by Orochimaru, she shouted to him, "At least Naruto isn't a coward!" It made him realize that he had to fight if he was going to reach his brother. The recent one was in the land of Iron. When Sasuke accused Naruto of not understanding, Sakura got mad and shouted at him.

 

But those are the exception rather than the norm. Both were very high tension situation that pushed the limit of Sakura's nerves. And notice how both of them have to do with Naruto. Goes to show how much of an influence Naruto was to Sakura even as early as the forest of death.

 

I think the best way to describe it is that in Sakura's instance she's infuriated, but with Karin it's her giving him attitude. With Karin's anger you can chuckle, just like you can when Sakura gets mad at Naruto, but when Sakura did to Sasuke it's meant to give a very serious atmosphere.

 

As for Karin in this chapter I found it funny, but that's probably because I don't have any grand expectations for her. I do think, as I've said before, that there's a chance she could end with Sasuke given their development here and there, but I'm aware that at most it might be just some panel in an epilogue that will have that God-level vagueness that Kishi is such an expert of.

 

I do think Sasuke will have some sort of resolution with Team Taka that will leave them all in a good place with each other, whatever that might be, and obviously Karin will be included in that. To what extent it might involve with Karin I don't care for making prediction. Whatever comes I'm fine with it as long at it concludes in good terms.

 

And as long as she's not saying something like "Sasuke, you're the best" out loud she can do whatever the heck she pleases and I can brush it off as Kishi's usual attempt of using Karin's Sasuke obsessed mental quirks for humor. Notice that up to this day she has yet to praise Sasuke out loud, and that's because she's too proud to give in even if the others already notice her sentiments (strangely enough that pride reminds me of Sasuke himself). That's one difference between her and Sasuke's academy fangirls.

[KnS]

I think focusing on her comparison to Sakura is immaterial.

 

Well, it's just part of my overall analysis.  I try to look at all the characters who influence or interact with each other, and have looked pretty closely at the so-called "romances."  For me, there's value and no practical difference in comparing Karin and Sakura, who both have some kind of romantic role in relationship to Sasuke, and comparing Sakura and Hinata, who both have some kind of romantic role in relationship to Naruto.  It wasn't intended as focus, per se, so much as I was offering a possible comparative purpose for Karin's behavior in the story.

 

It's almost insulting as reader I'm expected to see humor in it as if him leaving her dying on the forest floor never happened. A seminal moment in Sasuke's fall was committing that act, but Karin's character doesn't seemed to bothered by the whole thing, so in retrospect I guess him stabbing a vulnerable hostage and leaving her die because he couldn't be bothered expending the effort to finish the deed isn't such a big deal. It's hard to put a ton of stock in his descent when the character who was supposed to chronicle it doesn't.

 

I can't disagree with your assessment.  We've talked about this before.  Why Kishimoto decided to write the treatment of Sasuke's decline in this way doesn't make a lot of sense, considering he had better options -- at least in my opinion.

I'd hate her character regardless, but I wouldn't be so vexed if he was actually attempting to demonstrate stuff like this. I don't think it has a serious point or is trying to demonstrate anything. She's damaged, but such scenes aren't meant to drive that point home, they are there to make us giggle. I can't reconcile those two concepts into the same panel. I cannot look at a panel crafted to make people laugh and at the same time see an attempt to show the audience how damaged an individual she because that is a serious matter that requires at least some semblance of serious treatment. Even the famed recompilation devolved into comedy.

 

I guess this is at the heart of it for me:  I don't interpret Karin's weird nonsense as humor, or that what Kishimoto is doing is intended to be humor.  And that's probably because, like you said, it's so NOT funny.  It's not even kind of funny to me, so I can't wrap my mind around the possibility that it's supposed to be.  

 

Like you also said, "It's complete dreck and [Kishimoto is] a better writer than that."  I agree.  And maybe I'm in serious denial, but it's why I prefer to look for a deeper characterization of Karin as defective and not funny or goofy.  The only thing that makes her shtick remotely tolerable is the assumption that Kishimoto means to show Karin as an immature, messed up masochist -- and therefore the only kind of girl who could want Sasuke no matter what he's done.

[Hanabi]

 

I get that but Sakura should have been over her crush ages ago.

I mean she could still of had lingering feelings, but she should know that Sasuke is not good for her.

(not saying she doesn't get this now...but I think she should of gotten it sooner)

 

that doesn't mean she had to move on to Naruto right away...but come on....what made her want to pursue Sasuke so much????

(to be noticed?)

i duno. and i think we all forgot something. the prominent fangirls are karin, sakura, ino.

but temari and tenten(no....) gushes over his coolness in the beginning too

i guess its a way to show sasuke's coolness...

and hinata fangirls over naruto to show naruto's coolness.

She made me rage when she called Naruto a fool for loving her, on the meantime we have Sasuke doing bad things to her and she doesnt get the same conclusion.

u hit the nail alright but the difference is that she feel undeserving of naruto's affections. but doesn't feel sasuke's unworthy of her affections.. though she saw how sasuke fallen. ( at that time )

Edited by Hanabi, 19 September 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

You know it's funny. Whenever NS becomes canon or something huge, mainly from the next volume, things would be so clearer that some arguments remain and some will die. I would say the same goes to NS but the consequences are huge. Not being biased but you guys know it is true.

[Superman333]

You know it's funny. Whenever NS becomes canon or something huge, mainly from the next volume, things would be so clearer that some arguments remain and some will die. I would say the same goes to NS but the consequences are huge. Not being biased but you guys know it is true.

I have a feeling something big for NS will happen in the next volume . 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I have a feeling something big for NS will happen in the next volume . 

Somehow, that goes double for me as well. If true, well I don't know about you guys, but I call it a victory. I don't mind celebrate alone.

[Superman333]

Somehow, that goes double for me as well. If true, well I don't know about you guys, but I call it a victory. I don't mind celebrate alone.

kitten I'll celebrate with you .  what do you think the next one might be .?