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#49121 James S Cassidy

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Posted Yesterday, 10:12 PM

I think any honorific has a distancing effect no matter what. And this would apply to Naruto too. But the way that he doesn't use them with anyone else's name. Well, he respects his senseis by calling them as such, but he never uses them with equals except in the case of Sakura. So there was a significant emotional attachment that provoked this use of a cutesy title for one person. That's the way I read it anyway, and that's what I think was intended.

 

The Sasky Kun and Nardo Kun kitten also indicates an emotional attachment, but it's obviously not as significant, since they are both polite characters (generally) and use honorifics.

We also have to remember that Sai brings this up when talking about reading books.

He mentions that Sakura not uses suffix's for Naruto's name means that she must be very close to him. I know this means pig squat now, but why would Kishimoto write that in the story if it wasn't supposed to mean anything?

I have to keep reminding people when writing a story or even a comic that all things done in it has a purpose. Whether or not that prupose changes, but at the time of creation there is a purpose. You don't just add stuff in and not have it mean anything significant. If a writer does then it si bad writing. Sometimes writers can be clever and use it for a misdirection, but that is usually for a ultimate purpose and not as an excuse. Sure, no writer is perfect and like I said some thing change, but that leads to question...

What was the point of Sai pointing out the Naruto and Sakura dynamic on several instances and making a deal of it all if it all meant totally nothing? This is why I still believe Kishimoto wanted to put NS and SK together because of how many hints he dropped in the story. It was SP and/or SJ who made him change it for the damn movie.


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#49122 DrK

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Posted Yesterday, 10:18 PM

What was the point of Sai pointing out the Naruto and Sakura dynamic on several instances and making a deal of it all if it all meant totally nothing? This is why I still believe Kishimoto wanted to put NS and SK together because of how many hints he dropped in the story. It was SP and/or SJ who made him change it for the damn movie.

Yeah, I don't feel the same. I don't simply believe that. I know that.



#49123 VanitasDS76491

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Posted Yesterday, 10:30 PM

Once again I am stealing a line from the Nostalgia Critic's Swan Princess review...
Nothing stands out about those two that makes them interesting at all. If this movie can't explain what else about them is supposed to be unique, why should the characters? Disney developed more onscreen charisma with characters that you only knew for a few days. You guys had a kittening childhood to develop their romance and you still ended up botching it. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

  
Same alot of what Doug says as the critic is true and can be used for the problem in the last now I want him to review it and says it's awful.

XD Nice, Ken! I will say, this is hilarious, and fitting, since there is a LOT of Nostalgia Critic quotes I could use to describe the crap that occurs in The Last and they all can fit how Doug plays it up as the Nostalgia Critic. One example is Hinata with the scarf and knitting it constantly;
"YOU ARE FIRED FROM BREATHING!!! PLEASE KINDLY PACK UP YOUR THINGS AND LEAVE LIFE!!!!"

Nice I could also use spoony, linkara, phelous, Bennett the sage quote for the last and how bad it is and so many dr.Cox from scrubs clips would be used.

#49124 Phantom_999

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Posted Yesterday, 10:51 PM

The narrative took the trunk, not even the backseat. The fact that the plot stopped and centers around Hinata should be proof. Yes, in fictional stories you can do whatever you want, but there is such a thing as stretching too much of the imagination.

Like, what if I written a story where all of a sudden Naruto decided to stop being Hokage and started to be a Ramen noddle shop owner stating he wanted to make the best noodles in the world. He leaves his family to go on this quest to bring the best noodles anyone has ever seen. During this trip, he comes across a talking tree that tells him the secret of make great noodles by going into this cloud made of cotten candy. In the cloud he meets a guy that looks like a cross between Rosie O'Donnell and Conan O'Brian and his name is O'babies. O'babies shows him how lightning can be harnessed to cook the water to the perfect boiling temperature and that is how you make the perfect noodles.

Wouldn't that make a great story?


Another thing is, remember that Naruto the Last was not about Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura. The entire plot was about Hinata, Hinata's family, and Hinata's scarf. Nothing about Naruto was truly a focus in the movie. If anything HE second fiddle and Hinata was the main character. Which is why alot of people called Naruto the Last a shojo because it focused all on the girl and her desires.

Imagine watching say Love Hina which the story mostly centered around Keitaro and Narusegawa. Well, imagine if all of a sudden they made a movie called "Last Hina" and the story centered around Shinobu instead and she ended up being with Keitaro. (Shinobu is like a precurser to Hinata, but she actually had depth and reason. Short haired, black hair, shy girl who falls in love with the main character almost instantly because she gives him confidence.) The difference between Shinobu and Hinata was that Keitaro was much older and she was underage and Shinobu actually grows throughout the story into a respectable person. She can even cook.

Despite Keitaro and Narusegawa loving each other, making out, him giving her a ring, and so much other stuff....Shinobu still got Keitaro in the end....how would this make you feel?

 

 

Yup. Definitely. I mean, do you make railroads to let a train reach its destination, or do you make railroads to deliberately send it off a cliff? Writing is the same thing. It is meant to portray a message, to get somewhere. Just because you CAN move it any direction you want doesn't make it a good idea to. Not if you were a respectable writer anyway

 

And that is EXACTLY wahta Naruto did.  they developed Keitaro and Naru so to speak, worked toward progressin their relationship and then threw it down the drain to make it all about Shinobu and her getting Keitaro for..... absolutely no reason.

 

building a relationship between two characters up only to tear it down later has NEVER worked in any literature or fiction, especially if it was a meaningful and healthy relationship. I'm sure Spider-man's "One more day" comic can attest to that :yes:


Edited by Phantom_999, Today, 06:55 PM.

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#49125 sushi.

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Posted Today, 01:28 AM

I think any honorific has a distancing effect no matter what. And this would apply to Naruto too. But the way that he doesn't use them with anyone else's name. Well, he respects his senseis by calling them as such, but he never uses them with equals except in the case of Sakura. So there was a significant emotional attachment that provoked this use of a cutesy title for one person. That's the way I read it anyway, and that's what I think was intended.
 
The Sasky Kun and Nardo Kun kitten also indicates an emotional attachment, but it's obviously not as significant, since they are both polite characters (generally) and use honorifics.

As for the last part..if you're a girl in a japanese class you call all the boys kun. Your coworkers will be san. It is not an emotional attachment at all..

But it either creates distance or attachment, can't be both. Chan is not formal. Many adults call children chan, or their pets.
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#49126 DrK

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Posted Today, 04:35 AM

As for the last part..if you're a girl in a japanese class you call all the boys kun. Your coworkers will be san. It is not an emotional attachment at all..

 

But it either creates distance or attachment, can't be both. Chan is not formal. Many adults call children chan, or their pets. 

A japanese class it makes sense to do that so you can actually get used to the honorific. It can be, but not necessarily is, indicative of an attachment when a girl calls a boy that. And it is in those cases. That's what I meant. And that is true. It's not really something that is up for debate. There's a reason why Kishi did all the Sasuke-kun kitten. There are countless other examples too. It's just that they very rarely spell out "I call you this honorific for this reason". There aren't really simple definitions for the meaning of honorifics. You're making it out to be way more logical than it is. In a class they'll teach you strict situations when you should use them so you don't faux pas. But their usage was established culturally by people using them, not rigidly defined.

 

And no one is talking about being formal? Because I was only talking about Naruto, who is never formal. The fact that Sakura is the only equal he uses an honorific with is significant. To me at least. Are you saying it isn't?

 

I'll explain how it can be both. So Sakura calls Sasuke Sasuke-kun. This is distancing but also indicative of attachment. It's distancing because if she didn't use the honorific the distance would be lessened. And it's indicative of attachment because it's indicative of attachment in her case. Does that make sense?


Edited by DrK, Today, 05:17 AM.


#49127 rocci

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Posted Today, 07:26 AM

As for the last part..if you're a girl in a japanese class you call all the boys kun. Your coworkers will be san. It is not an emotional attachment at all..

But it either creates distance or attachment, can't be both. Chan is not formal. Many adults call children chan, or their pets.

Chan is a suffix for endearment. When a boy add that to a girl name in the same age, in that contex, the Chan is the love interest.

That's why in Japanese entertainment media, it's a big deal when a boy call a girl with suffix Chan.

The fact that Naruto doesnt drop the Chan suffix is really strange, Rude, and disrespect toward Hinata. Since Naruto doesnt have manner and the fact that sakura is the only girl with endearing suffix speak volume of how much her like her.

And Kishi make it a big deal in the manga only to drop and not continue it. Shame.


Anyway i don't like sakura hair in part 2, it make her ugly.

#49128 DrK

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Posted Today, 07:41 AM

Anyway i don't like sakura hair in part 2, it make her ugly.

She really looks weird in some panels during War Arc. You can tell that Kishi stopped caring about her because his idea of caring about Sakura = make her pretty.



#49129 KClaws_2

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Posted Today, 09:01 AM


 

Like, what if I written a story where all of a sudden Naruto decided to stop being Hokage and started to be a Ramen noddle shop owner stating he wanted to make the best noodles in the world. He leaves his family to go on this quest to bring the best noodles anyone has ever seen. During this trip, he comes across a talking tree that tells him the secret of make great noodles by going into this cloud made of cotten candy. In the cloud he meets a guy that looks like a cross between Rosie O'Donnell and Conan O'Brian and his name is O'babies. O'babies shows him how lightning can be harnessed to cook the water to the perfect boiling temperature and that is how you make the perfect noodles.

Wouldn't that make a great story?

 

 

It would be a tad more entertaining than what we've got right now.

 

Imagine watching say Love Hina which the story mostly centered around Keitaro and Narusegawa. Well, imagine if all of a sudden they made a movie called "Last Hina" and the story centered around Shinobu instead and she ended up being with Keitaro. (Shinobu is like a precurser to Hinata, but she actually had depth and reason. Short haired, black hair, shy girl who falls in love with the main character almost instantly because she gives him confidence.) The difference between Shinobu and Hinata was that Keitaro was much older and she was underage and Shinobu actually grows throughout the story into a respectable person. She can even cook.

Despite Keitaro and Narusegawa loving each other, making out, him giving her a ring, and so much other stuff....Shinobu still got Keitaro in the end....how would this make you feel?

 

 

I remember browsing through Love Hina fanfics (though probably for reasons I shouldn't have) and noticed how the fans either favored Keitaro with Shinobu or Motoko, calling Naru a b**** for hitting Keitaro, mistreating him, etc. And yet the series is still considered a classic, so I'm a bit skeptical that going NS would have killed the franchise (make it harder to continue into the next generation, maybe, but not kill it).

 

 

Not only did he do all of this, but Kishimoto killed Naruto's parents, blew off his arm, and gave him mountains of paperwork to do for the rest of his life. He later gets impailed on Sasuke's sword and so much more. Is that the happy ending we all deserved? Maybe we did. The fandom cared more about pairings than anything else, so maybe we did deserve this. Naruto didn't deserve a happy ending and anyone who does believe Naruto has a happy ending is really lying to themselves.

 


I know I'm back in a forum dedicated to shipping, but I'm finding shipping in general (whether the ship is canon or not) to be a cancer across fandoms. They just fight over pairings, bash on perfectly good characters who get in the way of their ship, attack other people for thinking differently, etc. It's getting out of control with Shokugeki no Soma and RWBY, been hearing stories on the Arrow fandom, and saw this stuff on FFVII. I for the most part stayed out of the pairing wars after a while. I just figured that Kishimoto would do what he wanted to in the very end, and the series wouldn't suffer. Maybe he did, but wow did he do a bad job. Whenever watching a SNS (the cooking anime, not the Naruto Ship) video or any other media, I have to breathe deep to remind myself the author isn't Kishimoto.



#49130 rocci

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Posted Today, 12:26 PM

She really looks weird in some panels during War Arc. You can tell that Kishi stopped caring about her because his idea of caring about Sakura = make her pretty.

War arc artwork is a mess. It's the worse drawing Kishi ever make. There's so many drawing erorr that still exist in the volume release.

Personalnya, i like her straight hair than the "messy" hair in part 2. It would be better if sakura has long hair.

Yeah i don't think making sakura beautiful in part 2 really working because she's not really elegant in part 2. Kishi should just make her powerful than pretty because he's pretty much failed in that departement. Or just make her pony tail, she look good in that.

#49131 sushi.

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Posted Today, 02:13 PM

A japanese class it makes sense to do that so you can actually get used to the honorific. It can be, but not necessarily is, indicative of an attachment when a girl calls a boy that. And it is in those cases. That's what I meant. And that is true. It's not really something that is up for debate. There's a reason why Kishi did all the Sasuke-kun kitten. There are countless other examples too. It's just that they very rarely spell out "I call you this honorific for this reason". There aren't really simple definitions for the meaning of honorifics. You're making it out to be way more logical than it is. In a class they'll teach you strict situations when you should use them so you don't faux pas. But their usage was established culturally by people using them, not rigidly defined.

 

And no one is talking about being formal? Because I was only talking about Naruto, who is never formal. The fact that Sakura is the only equal he uses an honorific with is significant. To me at least. Are you saying it isn't?

 

I'll explain how it can be both. So Sakura calls Sasuke Sasuke-kun. This is distancing but also indicative of attachment. It's distancing because if she didn't use the honorific the distance would be lessened. And it's indicative of attachment because it's indicative of attachment in her case. Does that make sense?

I never said it wasn't significant. I talked about being formal so don't say no one did. Naruto isn't the one using kun anyway. My point is that according to the manga, kun/san indicates an emotional distance but chan does not.

Chan is a suffix for endearment. When a boy add that to a girl name in the same age, in that contex, the Chan is the love interest.

That's why in Japanese entertainment media, it's a big deal when a boy call a girl with suffix Chan.

The fact that Naruto doesnt drop the Chan suffix is really strange, Rude, and disrespect toward Hinata. Since Naruto doesnt have manner and the fact that sakura is the only girl with endearing suffix speak volume of how much her like her.

And Kishi make it a big deal in the manga only to drop and not continue it. Shame.


Anyway i don't like sakura hair in part 2, it make her ugly.

mhm. That's what I've been saying.


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#49132 DrK

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Posted Today, 02:30 PM

I never said it wasn't significant. I talked about being formal so don't say no one did. Naruto isn't the one using kun anyway. My point is that according to the manga, kun/san indicates an emotional distance but chan does not.

Okay, it's just that you were responding to me. I didn't mean to be rude. But I doubt you did either and I somewhat took it that way so I apologize for that. I just kinda hate being corrected in the case that I'm not wrong. You know?

 

I think we are looking at this differently. For me I can't see distance as an on off switch and have anything make sense. Naruto is not, in so many words, distancing himself from Sakura if he calls her Sakura-chan. If, however, in an emotional situation, he decided to stop using that honorific, the distance would be reduced. Because to use no honorific is the most intimate. The significance of Sakura-chan didn't change as he got closer to her. He liked her, she was special to him, and she stayed that way. But to me, that honorific still has some small amount of distance attached. Because it is not nothing.

 

I don't know if this would ever apply in the case of children/pets. Not really knowledgeable enough to tell you.

 

I agree with you that it doesn't specifically denote a substantial distance in the way that san and kun typically do. But I'm just not viewing this the way you are, which is probably why what I said didn't make sense to you. Sorry for the confusion.


Edited by DrK, Today, 02:34 PM.


#49133 James S Cassidy

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Posted Today, 06:47 PM

Yeah, I don't feel the same. I don't simply believe that. I know that.

Don't feel the same about what? Believe what? I do not understand what context you are referring to what. Mind clarifying?

 

The fact that Naruto doesnt drop the Chan suffix is really strange, Rude, and disrespect toward Hinata. Since Naruto doesnt have manner and the fact that sakura is the only girl with endearing suffix speak volume of how much her like her.

And Kishi make it a big deal in the manga only to drop and not continue it. Shame.

It's almost like he never really loved Hinata....oh wait. lol
 

 

A japanese class it makes sense to do that so you can actually get used to the honorific. It can be, but not necessarily is, indicative of an attachment when a girl calls a boy that. And it is in those cases. That's what I meant. And that is true. It's not really something that is up for debate. There's a reason why Kishi did all the Sasuke-kun kitten. There are countless other examples too. It's just that they very rarely spell out "I call you this honorific for this reason". There aren't really simple definitions for the meaning of honorifics. You're making it out to be way more logical than it is. In a class they'll teach you strict situations when you should use them so you don't faux pas. But their usage was established culturally by people using them, not rigidly defined.

 

And no one is talking about being formal? Because I was only talking about Naruto, who is never formal. The fact that Sakura is the only equal he uses an honorific with is significant. To me at least. Are you saying it isn't?

 

I'll explain how it can be both. So Sakura calls Sasuke Sasuke-kun. This is distancing but also indicative of attachment. It's distancing because if she didn't use the honorific the distance would be lessened. And it's indicative of attachment because it's indicative of attachment in her case. Does that make sense?

I think we all can agree that while there is a cultural difference there is also a individual difference. Like you said, Naruto only really uses suffix's with people he admires or he sees as equal thus Sakura-chan. He also doesn't use suffixs with Sasuke though probably because he sees him as a rival.

Again, look to Sai and what he does and what he asks. This is a dude who is confused by some situations of social and cultural aspects because he reads a book that means one thing and apparently the generations are doing something different. I mean, he tells Sakura a truth and is told that just bluntly insulting people is wrong only to turn and purposely lie to Ino because he is told that basically people would rather hear a kind lie than a horrible truth. He doesn't mean much behind it, he is just trying to get back into the cultural circle. Unfortunitly, Sakura and Naruto are horrible teachers when it comes to this because they change so sporadically that "manners" is not something people use alot in the K11 generation.

How many times has Sai asked Sakura or Naruto about something and they pruposely lie to him. "Even I can tell that Naruto is in love with you." Are we to say Sai is wrong? It's a pretty bold thing to say especially for someone who, for the most part, has a hard time with emotions. Sai is not stupid. In fact, he may be the smartest one in the group. His ignorance is better than Sakura's and Naruto's stupidity. At least Sai doesn't just accept any lie he is being told. He asks questions and is not afraid to do so. "Naruto, you like Sakura don't you? Have you ever told her how you felt?" He can see it as plainly obvious as did Konohamaru, the Frogs, and even Minato himself. So who are the real ones lying to themselves? After a while, since Naruto and Sakura just became so stupid, they just gave up. "Fine, be miserable, but you only have yourselves to blame."

It is kind of like how there are huge differences between my grandparents generation, my parents generation, my generation, and now the newer generation.

The story we are being told is not the same story that is being showed.


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