174 replies to this topic

[Madz]

Ah just thought of another. It may be minor to some, but for me it bugs me.
I hate it when either Naruto or Sakura drops the -sensei part when addressing Kakashi.

The little I know about Japanese culture in the movies I've seen (I may be wrong - correct me if I am), but sensei is a title which most carry on even if the students grow up. It is specially very true in Naruto - see how even Minato, as Hokage - still addressed Jiraiya as sensei.

So, I believe that Naruto/Sakura would always address Kakashi as Kakashi-sensei. I sort of wince when I read Naruto/Sakura addressing Kakashi on first name basis (unless maybe in the case of a Saku/Kaka pairing fiction, but I've never read any).

[Deej]

I was looking at tropes Crack Pairing page and found this.

To show you how much Naruto can be an Author Avatar for some writers, there are 30 fanfics featuring Samui on fanfiction.net. 26 of the 30 have her paired with Naruto.

Crack pairing Naruto with different people is not a pet peeve to me. Even if it is overdone. If you don't like the pairing, don't read it. But I do have a problem with SexGod Gary Stu Naruto who pops up in so many crack fics. Never mind the usually terrible(unless they are played for laughs) Naruto Harem fics. Because a lot of it seems to be male writers sticking OOC Naruto with whoever they find hot and living out a fantasy. It's always poor Naruto who gets this role. Very rarely Sasuke or anyone else.

So I do laugh when I see a female character who Naruto didn't even say a word to, get stuck with him in the majority of her fanfics because Naruto fans find her hot.

Edited by Deej, 02 April 2012 - 04:57 PM.

[Nate River]

Ah just thought of another. It may be minor to some, but for me it bugs me.
I hate it when either Naruto or Sakura drops the -sensei part when addressing Kakashi.

The little I know about Japanese culture in the movies I've seen (I may be wrong - correct me if I am), but sensei is a title which most carry on even if the students grow up. It is specially very true in Naruto - see how even Minato, as Hokage - still addressed Jiraiya as sensei.

So, I believe that Naruto/Sakura would always address Kakashi as Kakashi-sensei. I sort of wince when I read Naruto/Sakura addressing Kakashi on first name basis (unless maybe in the case of a Saku/Kaka pairing fiction, but I've never read any).

I've generally been of the opinion that if you don't feel like you have a truly adequate grasp on the meanings of significance of those, the author should avoid them all together. I'd rather not use them, than use them and repeatedly get them wrong.

Crack pairing Naruto with different people is not a pet peeve to me. Even if it is overdone. If you don't like the pairing, don't read it. But I do have a problem with SexGod Gary Stu Naruto who pops up in so many crack fics. Never mind the usually terrible(unless they are played for laughs) Naruto Harem fics. Because a lot of it seems to be male writers sticking OOC Naruto with whoever they find hot and living out a fantasy. It's always poor Naruto who gets this role. Very rarely Sasuke or anyone else.

For me, I get bored seeing the same relationships portrayed in stories time after time. I look to crack for variety. Given that most series the bulk of the story stories are around canon/perceived canon/expected canon, I tend to get bored of really easily and seek other stuff out. Most of the crack I look for gravitates around my favorite characters the rest I usually just stumble upon. So, yeah, most of the time it's Naruto, but I've looked for crack around Sasuke, Lee, Hinata, Hanabi, and even TenTen on occasion (what can I say, I like SasuTen). Not so much Sakura, but that is mostly because I look at alternatives and I'm like "meh." I haven't found one I think really interests me. If someone has one that's interesting and that doesn't involve feeling to the Akatsuki (I tend to hate it when ANY of the K11 do that), then I'm certainly willing to give it a go.

Yeah, I can't do harem if it's not comedy. Even then, I struggle with it. Vespar's Single Ninja on the Town is usually my gold standard, but that's not a true harem as Naruto only ends up with Sakura.

[KnS]

Though I have to be honest, only about half of the time (if that) does the review count accurately reflect the quality of a fic. I've always found it somewhat amusing, the people that read my fics are often like 'Why don't you have more reviews? This is great!', but I've given up trying to figure it out. I remember when I first started writing I got a bit ticked about it, but now, I just think of it more like a bonus. I often get great ideas from chatting with reviewers too.

All of this, exactly. I will never understand why so many readers refuse to support stories they really like by leaving a review on the story itself. It's simple and only takes a minute to say, "I'm reading this and like it." But they don't. Readers will request alerts for updates, and put it on their Favorites list, but won't leave a review so that other readers who select stories based on review count will consider reading it? Why? Why not support good fan fiction or a pairing you like by reviewing so others will know why it's good and worth reading?

Thanks to FF.net's statistics authors know when their stories have a zillion times more alert requests and favorites than they do reviews -- proving that people like the work and are interested enough to keep reading -- but other readers who look at review counts as a sign of decent fiction will never know it. It's particularly ironic when many of the same non-reviewing readers complain that there's so little quality fiction in their fandom.

Edited by KnS, 02 April 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[tricksie]

All of this, exactly. I will never understand why so many readers refuse to support stories they really like by leaving a review on the story itself. It's simple and only takes a minute to say, "I'm reading this and like it." But they don't. Readers will request alerts for updates, and put it on their Favorites list, but won't leave a review so that other readers who select stories based on review count will consider reading it? Why? Why not support good fan fiction or a pairing you like by reviewing so others will know why it's good and worth reading?

Thanks to FF.net's statistics authors know when their stories have a zillion times more alert requests and favorites than they do reviews -- proving that people like the work and are interested enough to keep reading -- but other readers who look at review counts as a sign of decent fiction will never know it. It's particularly ironic when many of the same non-reviewing readers complain that there's so little quality fiction in their fandom.

The simple fact is that it's hard to get people to respond to anything. From real life situations — office or church, social groups or volunteer work — all the way down posting a simple review on a story.

The Pareto Principle: 20 percent of the people do 80 percent of the work.

That really sucks doesn't it! And more often I find it's 10/90!

But the up side is that only that 10-20 percent matters. And that 20 percent will produce 80 percent of your results.

So in fanfic statistics, that translates to 20 percent of the people who read your stories will write 80 percent of the reviews.

There's another issue with fanfic statistics that's deceptive, however. It's the user vs. hits amounts. Since it automatically doubles your hits because it forces you to go to the first chapter instead of the most recently updated chapter, it's hard to get an accurate count.

So I looked at mine this way:

I have a one shot that has around 10,383 hits. It has 49 reviews. But by rounding and taking into account that automatic doubling of hits, I get a more accurate picture: 5,000 hits to 50 reviews.

That means only 1% of the readers actually bothered to review the story!!! So depressing!

But I look at it this way: I am so happy to be able to write something I enjoy and have people out in the world who want to read it. So I don't focus on the vast majority who for whatever reason don't review, but on the 10-20 percent (or 1 percent!) that care enough to post. I say all the time how much I appreciate them. And this, above, is why.

It's nice to see the hit count, that always makes you feel good. But the real connection between author and readers comes with the ones who are moved enough to respond. And I don't take any of that for granted. One thoughtful review makes a towering hit count look miniscule, and one well-timed "keep going!" review has totally kept me going! Ultimately that's the only stuff that matters. The rest are just numbers.

It gets under my skin too sometimes, but looking at it from this perspective helps a lot.

[KnS]

But I look at it this way: I am so happy to be able to write something I enjoy and have people out in the world who want to read it. So I don't focus on the vast majority who for whatever reason don't review, but on the 10-20 percent (or 1 percent!) that care enough to post. I say all the time how much I appreciate them. And this, above, is why.

I understand. I appreciate them as well, and reply to every single signed review. Like Paradox Jast said, being able to interact with reviewers is a terrific opportunity to share fannish enthusiasm and exchange ideas about the characters. Some of my very best, long-standing online friends are people I didn't know existed until they reviewed one of my stories.

For the record, I couldn't care less about the hit count. It's meaningless. Likewise, I don't personally write for reviews. I've written for a lot of fandoms in my day, and have always used fan fiction as a method to improve as a storyteller. I write because I want to and enjoy the process, and when I feel I have a decent idea for a story. I admit I did get very spoiled writing for the Harry Potter fandom because, as a whole, readers of that fandom were much more giving, thoughtful, and appreciative of writers' time and effort. But a desire for praise and attention is not the reason to write, in my opinion.

My occasional bouts of irritation about the lack of reviews (the Naruto fandom is particularly non-reviewing) come from the notion that readers miss an easy opportunity to be supportive -- of good writing, of ships they like, of their fandom in general. If you like a story enough to click the Story Alert and Favorite checkboxes, how hard is it to check the Review box and help others know it's worth reading? Seriously. There is such a glut of Naruto fan fiction out there (it has the second highest fic count on ff.net, after Harry Potter) and so much of it is bad, it just seems it would make good sense to review the fics that are worth reading and make it easier for others to find them.

Oh well. Thanks for the reply, tricksie.

[tricksie]

I understand. I appreciate them as well, and reply to every single signed review. Like Paradox Jast said, being able to interact with reviewers is a terrific opportunity to share fannish enthusiasm and exchange ideas about the characters. Some of my very best, long-standing online friends are people I didn't know existed until they reviewed one of my stories.

For the record, I couldn't care less about the hit count. It's meaningless. Likewise, I don't personally write for reviews. I've written for a lot of fandoms in my day, and have always used fan fiction as a method to improve as a storyteller. I write because I want to and enjoy the process, and when I feel I have a decent idea for a story. I admit I did get very spoiled writing for the Harry Potter fandom because, as a whole, readers of that fandom were much more giving, thoughtful, and appreciative of writers' time and effort. But a desire for praise and attention is not the reason to write, in my opinion.

My occasional bouts of irritation about the lack of reviews (the Naruto fandom is particularly non-reviewing) come from the notion that readers miss an easy opportunity to be supportive -- of good writing, of ships they like, of their fandom in general. If you like a story enough to click the Story Alert and Favorite checkboxes, how hard is it to check the Review box and help others know it's worth reading? Seriously. There is such a glut of Naruto fan fiction out there (it has the second highest fic count on ff.net, after Harry Potter) and so much of it is bad, it just seems it would make good sense to review the fics that are worth reading and make it easier for others to find them.

Oh well. Thanks for the reply, tricksie.

I remember Paradox talking about it a few years ago when I was deciding whether to dip my toes into writing fanfic. And now I can understand where he was coming from. The review count never accurately reflects the quality of the story.

That would be another pet peeve, I suppose. Reading a story with a huge review count only to be left wondering if I clicked on the right story. I've read some with very few reviews that I thought were really well crafted, imaginative or heartfelt. And then others with lots of reviews where the writing is abysmal, the characters are poor stereotypes and there's no plot.

It's interesting to hear your thoughts about Naruto compared to other ff fandoms. I wonder if it's because Naruto's audience is largely more young adult, whereas Harry Potter has a big base of adult fans. Either who read it on their own or came to it through reading it to their child.

Or is it because Harry Potter is a set of massive novels where as Naruto is a weekly manga. HP trades in fully formed sentences, whereas in Naruto a string of ellipses is a perfectly acceptable statement!

lol - maybe it's a bit of both!

Anyway, completely agree with everything you're saying!

[KnS]

The review count never accurately reflects the quality of the story.

Indeed.

That would be another pet peeve, I suppose. Reading a story with a huge review count only to be left wondering if I clicked on the right story. I've read some with very few reviews that I thought were really well crafted, imaginative or heartfelt. And then others with lots of reviews where the writing is abysmal, the characters are poor stereotypes and there's no plot.

I know. It's difficult to understand why such fics are popular. But it may help to employ the McDonalds Principle: they may sell billions, but what they serve doesn't require culinary skill or quality ingredients.

It's interesting to hear your thoughts about Naruto compared to other ff fandoms. I wonder if it's because Naruto's audience is largely more young adult, whereas Harry Potter has a big base of adult fans. Either who read it on their own or came to it through reading it to their child.

Or is it because Harry Potter is a set of massive novels where as Naruto is a weekly manga. HP trades in fully formed sentences, whereas in Naruto a string of ellipses is a perfectly acceptable statement!

lol - maybe it's a bit of both!

It could be some of both. The Potter series did attract a lot of adults -- a higher concentration for a decidedly kid/YA series, that's for sure. For many of those adults it was their first fandom experience, and they tended to lurk -- at least at first. But the vicious wank that existed (H/Hr vs. R/Hr and H/G, het shippers vs. slashers) scared a lot of the adults away from participating. Younger people who've been raised on the internet are more used to it, I suppose.

And this fandom is no stranger to vicious wank. I've been part of quite a few fandoms and can say without reservation that the Naruto fandom is the most generally hostile I've encountered. So much rudeness! I've visited a lot of boards and comms, and always wander away wondering how so many people who claim to be fans can be so hateful toward so many characters and the author -- not to mention other fans who don't happen to agree with their views. It's really unfortunate.

So maybe that's some of the difference? As a sweeping generality, perhaps leaving supportive reviews is a casualty of the hostile environment. People have learned not to stick their necks out...? I honestly don't know the cause, but readers in this fandom are definitely underachievers when it comes to reviewing.

Naruto is the only manga/anime fandom I've written for, but for what it's worth, a friend of mine (who is experienced and skilled) writes for both Bleach and Naruto, and tells me that Naruto readers review her work far less than the Bleach fans. Same writer, same quality, the only significant variable is the fandom population. *shrug*

[Madz]

ITA on the review things.

And definitely naruto fanfictions - MOST specially narusaku fanfics get the less reviews out of most fandoms! And it's a pity because I've seen the very best authors on the Narusaku fandom (not biased because I'm a Narusaku fan, but I've read most of fandoms on the ff net site, and the elite best ones (at least in my opinion) are from Narusaku fandoms).
I'm a Itasaku fan - and in this pairing fics the fans are very generous, and most stories of Itasaku get very high reviews count (even the very very poor one!)

And I seen a twilight fanfic having 25 000 reviews, and when I read the first chapters our of curiosity (I'm not a fan of Twilight) - I was disappointed (and annoyed) about the quality of the story and the plot!! It's hard to believe that such an average story would get such high reviews.

But anyway - I, too, prefer the quality of reviews compared to quantity - and to tell you the honest truth, I get nervous if at the first chapter the reviews is too high, no kidding! I feel the pressure increase and feel the fear of disappointing people!

Edited by Madz, 04 April 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[PachucoDesigns]

It's been a long time since I've had a fictionpress account. I had a fanfiction.net account, as well, but fanfiction has never really been my niche. I'm sure both accounts still exist, but it also wouldn't surprise me if they were deleted due to inactivity, and I don't suppose there have been any recent reviews. Even if there were, it wouldn't concern me much, as my writing style has developed quite a bit since then.

I hear a lot of the same frustrations with that website's approach, and they were pretty much the same reason I left it behind. It's too impersonal, too subject to fad and fickle fascination. We tell people not to judge a book by it's cover, but it seems that most of us are still apt to it. It's all about momentum and gravity. The stories that get the most reviews are the ones that tend to get the most views, because people find it more worth their time to go directly where the intrigue seems to be instead of thumbing through the writings for themselves.

And aside from that, when you do get reviews, I find that most of them aren't very helpful. Praise is always nice, and denigration always sucks. Where there are die hard fans, there will always be trolls. I think we can all attest to that. But the most valuable reviews are also the rarest, the ones that give insight into finer details and method, showing that the person actually paid attention to what they were reading and showed a genuine interest.

So, I left that place. After a while, you get tired of shouting into the dark and hoping to be heard. My recent approach has been in the world of creepypastas, which seem to have built quite the avid following of late. The horror genre was already more my style, and the people who come to read and review are a very particular group with very inspired and honest critique.

It's all about finding the right forum, I guess. As far as fanfiction goes, you're always going to attract attention based on fans of the series rather than fans of the genre, which is a more select group. So even if you do have a fanfiction.net account, it should really only serve as a place to keep the collective of your works. If you're seeking real attention and feedback, best to sell yourself where you are most appreciated. Sites like this, for starters.

[harry4e]

Though I have to be honest, only about half of the time (if that) does the review count accurately reflect the quality of a fic. I've always found it somewhat amusing, the people that read my fics are often like 'Why don't you have more reviews? This is great!', but I've given up trying to figure it out. I remember when I first started writing I got a bit ticked about it, but now, I just think of it more like a bonus. I often get great ideas from chatting with reviewers too.

I've found the ones that more often than not get the most reviews are the ones that make Naruto a complete and utter badarse who is too strong from the get go, is a Harem fic, Bashes certain charactors, and/or make changes to their fic depending on how the polls go...So in most cases the story itself isn't important, neither is the grammer, or content, it's basically a pop group of pretty talentless young adults who sell millions of Records purely based on their looks and populaity.

[Catwho]

FF.net is not showing updates posted in the last 24 hours.

Including the new chapter I posted.

[Catwho]

I want a feature one fanfiction.net that allows me to permanently hide stories that I don't want to read.

They'd still show up for other people, but they wouldn't be visible to me once I was logged in.

Then I could just hide all the stories with terrible summaries, pairings I dislike or pairings that make no sense, those that are clearly ripoff of other things without wanting to call themselves crossovers (flavor of the month is "Hunger Games" inspired stories, of which maybe one in ten will be worth reading), and just bad writing overall.

And then, I could pretend my fandoms are full of nothing but good writing and cool people.

Edited by Catwho, 23 April 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Catwho]

And another thing!

Why why WHY WHY WHY does someone submit a "story alert" to a ten year old fanfic that is clearly marked as complete, has a definite absolute ending, and yet not submit a review? I'm never going to update that story again. Put it on author alert, leave me a review, mark it as a favorite, but for crying out loud don't put a finished story on Story Alert. There is no more story to alert you to!

[desaix]

And another thing!

Why why WHY WHY WHY does someone submit a "story alert" to a ten year old fanfic that is clearly marked as complete, has a definite absolute ending, and yet not submit a review? I'm never going to update that story again. Put it on author alert, leave me a review, mark it as a favorite, but for crying out loud don't put a finished story on Story Alert. There is no more story to alert you to!

I can answer that, at least in my case -- I use it in place of a bookmark (since ffnet's bookmarking system never works for me), sometimes, because it can travel between computers. I often put story alerts on fanfics I want to read on another computer, since that makes them easy to find. However, I'm also one of those reviewers who doesn't comment unless I have something to say (I, personally, am not a fan of "good fic, please continue!" type comments -- to me, reviews should be meaningful or you shouldn't write them), and if it's a ten year old fic I view the chances of anything I have to say about it having any meaning whatsoever pretty slim, at best.

Edited by desaix, 23 April 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[Catwho]

I can answer that, at least in my case -- I use it in place of a bookmark (since ffnet's bookmarking system never works for me), sometimes, because it can travel between computers. I often put story alerts on fanfics I want to read on another computer, since that makes them easy to find. However, I'm also one of those reviewers who doesn't comment unless I have something to say (I, personally, am not a fan of "good fic, please continue!" type comments -- to me, reviews should be meaningful or you shouldn't write them), and if it's a ten year old fic I view the chances of anything I have to say about it having any meaning whatsoever pretty slim, at best.

Ah, never had that issue with the bookmarks... These days, my Chrome browser bookmarks are synchronized across three computers so it's all a moot point and I frequently pin temporary bookmarks up top if I'm not quite done with something.

Thanks for the explanation. It's still annoying though.

I'm actually the same way with reviews, although I'll post if the author directly requests feedback or interaction to a reasonable extent (such as "did that seem OOC to you? I hope not, please let me know" - well ok, I'll say what I thought about the degree of OOCness.) But I won't post a review just for the sake of "Cool story, bro."

[Madz]

I, too, add stories I want to read / read later in my story alert. I use it as a store.
I don't use / and has never used bookmarks for that!

[Akanuma]

I feel bad about my writing now because I know that I hit a lot of these peeves with Henka no Kaze and Cry of the Rain xD

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

My pet peeves are...

1. Unfinshed/Abandoned stories that are really good.
2. A fic with only a lemon and has no actual plot or story(In other words PWP)
3. Flamers that give no logical reason for the flame in the first place
4. Unrealistic, fantasy stories
5. Rushed, not proper development
6. NaruHina and SasuSaku stories irk me.
7. Fanfics that portray Sakura as a 12-year old brat instead of her canon self at 16
8. Out of Characterness
9. NaruSakuHina fics
10. Some AU fics but it really depends on what the AU is about.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 25 April 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[kirabook]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about getting a review?
I pay more attention to my hit count stuff. Maybe because I personally don't review much. A lot of the time I'm not reading on my computer, so I'm not logged in and I rarely remember my password. And I don't like reviewing as a guest because if I leave a critical review with tips or something (not that I should be giving tips, I'm a horrible writer), the author will delete them and then complain about criticism in the next chapter.

Which is why, I hate really do hate when they say "Depending on how many reviews I get is how soon I'll update. If you really like your story, should getting some cheesy "Great chapter! Please update soon!" reviews really matter? I like my story because it's mine, not just because other people like it too. Hence why I don't care about getting reviews. I remember a while back there was this scanslator for a manga I really liked and they were b******* about people not commenting about what a wonder scanslator they were. They threatened to stop if they didn't get x amount of comments. Things like that make me feel like commenting even less. And I rarely ever respond to such schemes.

I guess it's an ego stroker to get a review or two, but unless someone is giving me an in-depth criticism every single chapter, it matters not. *and there's questions too, always willing to answer questions of course. My writing can be so hectic and confusing sadly*