DJSparty

Just got back from going out and had a chance to catch up with the thread.... Seriously sucks being out of likes reading some of the other posts. 

First, it's not worth it to cry over Kishi's work. It's good to remember that it's just fiction at the end of the day. From the sounds of all the spoilers and what others are saying NS wasn't resolved or even acknowledged in the movie. In my opinion, I think that is better. People who read the manga in the future and get into the series will probably be shocked at how it ends and how inconsistent the pairings are with the manga's theme's. Especially when the author is on record saying he intentionally misled the most developed boy-girl relationship in his story just to keep fans on board (Flat out wrong/Soul Selling but I guess he was well within his rights, there has to be some accountability IMO). 

Second, the writing took a nosedive when he decided to increase the fights and wars to DB/DBZ levels. I don't know if you guys ever read the fic, "The Sealed Kunai", but it is absolutely excellent and to date one of the best written Naruto fics on FF (Not NS or any major ships BTW). It's funny when I hear that Kishi decided to mimic DBZ and how Toriyama wrote his story. Toriyama never strung along with regards to romance. Everything was decided and built upon, case in point is Vegeta/Bulma. They had a child together and slowly over time it was shown that they cared for each other. It was SHOWN from both sides (unlike SS)!!!

Third, and I've said this before, I'm really looking forward to the output of a lot of NS fanfics/fanarts that will come out of this. Hard to believe that there are writers out there that are posting free work that is written better than what we were shown with Kishimoto. 

Chin up people,

We don't need a canon for our ship to still sail!!

The dying wishes of a mother are meant to be misleading no way.

The Majin Vegeta speeches are just straight epic. The battle between him and Goku are, in my opinion, the greatest in Anime history. Bruce Faulconer's music fit the series perfectly.

Wow, truth be told I can't even be mad at this. It's pretty hilarious how far off the movie and the last two chapters are.

What was drawn and written through, at the very least, 692 chapters of this manga lead many non-shippers and casual fans in a completely different direction. Kishi's rules and themes he wrote are completely disregarded when it comes to the romance aspect of the story. This man truly can't write romance to save his life. If what he says is true and the pairings were decided a long time ago, then he unintentionally created one of the most powerful bonds in the manga and had no freaking idea how to stick to his original endgame pairings. It's is extremely sad and unethical (IMO) when you have to undermine a relationship in order to move on with the story to "make it all fit". I'm going to reiterate what I said earlier, if he didn't know/was embarrassed to write romance then he should never have done it in the first place. Not surprised that he failed to understand character's feelings.

You get an F for literary competence Kishi. Count me in the group as no longer a fan of your work.

Sorry about this double post guys, but I thought this thread was a more appropriate place to put my rant rather than the movie thread:

The degradation of the titular character's goals and interests are astounding. Never before have I read a piece of fiction where the main character was just thrown to the wayside in the last chapter, epilogue, and this farce of a movie. The facts are that it doesn't matter when Kishimoto decided on the final pairings. If there was some sort of progression towards the endgame pairings. The story would have been MUCH MORE digestible and the ending would have made sense. The red herrings that Kishi gave us are insulting to the characters he created and the relationships they had, Jiraiya/Tsunade, Obito/Rin, and most importantly Minato/Kushina. 
 
The travesty of this is that the writer of a series would go to extreme lengths to keep the fans guessing. An old friend of mine who happened to get in to Naruto the same time as me has a degree in English with a specialization in creative writing. He's currently aiming for a PhD in English. We happened to run into each other and caught up, one of our common interest were this manga and he too was shocked with the ending and he's not even a shipper at all He broached several topics, but one of the main ones we discussed was the artwork. I don't know how much depicting literal foreshadowing plays in Japanese culture but showing mirror panels EVERYWHERE would give an educated individual such as him a great sense where the story was headed...... NOPE. 
 
Another issue he had was with the whole "pale love" Naruto had for Sakura. He heavily criticized Kishi for showing the CPR scene. He said, and I quote, "The literal symbolicism of a girl holding a boy's heart in her hands means that his heart is devoted to her, the fact that she beats it for him just compounds that fact that she is his reason for living." While I thought that was pretty strong a statement I couldn't really deny it.
 
The artwork of this manga and the anime are completely counter intuitive to what Kishi wrote and/or planned. We both concluded that Kishi's writing skills should be called into question and any future works should be looked at with a grain of salt. A self respecting writer who should care for his fans has a duty to write a clear concise story that flows well so that his fans understand the story first and foremost. 
 
We also both agreed that if Kishi wasn't good at writing romance, he should have never delved so deep into it in the first place. Fact is he couldn't conclude the love triangle properly withing 700 chapters and 15 years of writing this manga. Using a movie to show how the romance developed for the MAIN CHARACTER further exacerbates this thought. Even now, we are getting hints that they are embarrassed drawing these "romantic scenes". Kishimoto and his team bit off more than they could chew and are now backtracking like nobody's business in order to make this all seem plausible. 
 
The Naruto fandom will probably only get a true answer of what really went through Kishimoto's head well after Part 3 has ended. Many writers such as JK Rowling, and Akira Toriyama have done so, explaining what they might have done differently or if they were indeed pressured to change the story to cater to the masses.

The degradation of the titular character's goals and interests are astounding. Never before have I read a piece of fiction where the main character was just thrown to the wayside in the last chapter, epilogue, and this farce of a movie. The facts are that it doesn't matter when Kishimoto decided on the final pairings. If there was some sort of progression towards the endgame pairings. The story would have been MUCH MORE digestible and the ending would have made sense. The red herrings that Kishi gave us are insulting to the characters he created and the relationships they had, Jiraiya/Tsunade, Obito/Rin, and most importantly Minato/Kushina. 

The travesty of this is that the writer of a series would go to extreme lengths to keep the fans guessing. An old friend of mine who happened to get in to Naruto the same time as me has a degree in English with a specialization in creative writing. He's currently aiming for a PhD in English. We happened to run into each other and caught up, one of our common interest were this manga and he too was shocked with the ending and he's not even a shipper at all He broached several topics, but one of the main ones we discussed was the artwork. I don't know how much depicting literal foreshadowing plays in Japanese culture but showing mirror panels EVERYWHERE would give an educated individual such as him a great sense where the story was headed...... NOPE. 

Another issue he had was with the whole "pale love" Naruto had for Sakura. He heavily criticized Kishi for showing the CPR scene. He said, and I quote, "The literal symbolicism of a girl holding a boy's heart in her hands means that his heart is devoted to her, the fact that she beats it for him just compounds that fact that she is his reason for living." While I thought that was pretty strong a statement I couldn't really deny it.

The artwork of this manga and the anime are completely counter intuitive to what Kishi wrote and/or planned. We both concluded that Kishi's writing skills should be called into question and any future works should be looked at with a grain of salt. A self respecting writer who should care for his fans has a duty to write a clear concise story that flows well so that his fans understand the story first and foremost. 

We also both agreed that if Kishi wasn't good at writing romance, he should have never delved so deep into it in the first place. Fact is he couldn't conclude the love triangle properly withing 700 chapters and 15 years of writing this manga. Using a movie to show how the romance developed for the MAIN CHARACTER further exacerbates this thought. Even now, we are getting hints that they are embarrassed drawing these "romantic scenes". Kishimoto and his team bit off more than they could chew and are now backtracking like nobody's business in order to make this all seem plausible. 

The Naruto fandom will probably only get a true answer of what really went through Kishimoto's head well after Part 3 has ended. Many writers such as JK Rowling, and Akira Toriyama have done so, explaining what they might have done differently or if they were indeed pressured to change the story to cater to the masses.

Blount Force Trauma back in NE. Nobody wants to hit that Blount!!!

JONAS GRAY!!! 4 TDS, 199 YARDS!!! The guy could of easily of made 6 and broke the record if Patriots let him. Taking away the first 4 weeks (which were the weeks Patriots weren't themselves yet), Patriots are the best offense, and a top 5 defense in the league.

As people rush to pick up him in the waiver wire this week....

Knowing the pats, he won't even get 10 carries next week XD.

Okay, I am going to be honest....if NS some how...SOME HOW...manages to be canon in the end, I still would not find this ending...appealing. Like I said, it is not really about pairings choice, but rather...the ending was just bad...even if my OTP or whatever happens...it all feels bad. It feels weird.

15 years and 700 chapters of a manga should be more than enough time and space to have a resolution to the main characters love interest in a logical, concise, well written way.

I also am annoyed if Kishimoto-sensei thinks we're all morons to assume Naruto's love for Sakura was pale when it was VERY real!

Sacrificing one's personal feelings for the sake of another person is not pale at all. It's foolish to even consider..... It's demeaning to many parent-children relationships.

As for Naruto still being the hero we know? It's a tough question, and given the ending of the manga, an even tougher answer. The fact that there is any question or doubt in whether or not he is/was is troubling to me, and therefore I'd have to go with no, he wasn't. He accomplished what he stated were his goals but he didn't surpass his predecessors in any respect, in my opinion. The hero never got THE girl, and to me that's a big deal. Especially when it was emphasized with his teacher's last words (it is implied that Naruto was/is supposed to surpass Jiraiya) about not getting the love of his life. 

I don't know if the Tale of the Gutsy Ninja is the same as it was in the manga but if it is, Naruto's actions goes directly against what he said to Nagato when he said "That's who Naruto is." Which is disheartening. 

We're all disappointed in this. I started this anime 10 years ago, and I have shipped NaruSaku hard everyday for these past 10 years. I was 8 at the time, so I started understanding love and how to care for women because of Naruto. The way Sakura would change when she was with Naruto was just a tearjerker. She was so cute, and Naruto knew how to make her feel like she was the best girl ever. Any girl would of left a guy (who only gave her something good looking to see) for a guy who was raising as the hero of the world, and featured unchallengeable love for her.

 

This love wasn't even brought back up. He never got to tell Sakura all about her forehead or anything. Nothing about how he saw his mother in her. Nothing about how she made his heart go crazy. Heck, Naruto doesn't even talk with Sasuke or Sakura anymore... Team 7 isn't back together. They split up all just because they grew up?.. Sasuke has spent 15 years being a loner and just coming back for a little while to make Sakura raise a kid by herself. You would think that the two people (Naruto and Sasuke) that know the importance to have a loving family more than anyone else would be extremely attached to their kids.

 

Instead Naruto grew up (TOO MUCH) and became a strict parent. He just became hokage and his son is around 8 years old. Where was his excuse to not spend time with him those 8 years? What is Sasuke's reason to not stop traveling the world after a few months/years and come back for his child he gave Sakura? None. Just Kishimoto ruining team 7, characters development, and a lot of things that should of been resolved. This end was extremely rushed. We had no time to celebrate the victory of this long war. WHY NOT!? 15 years of work all just to be rushed off. Such a great manga that just... ruined my childhood. I thought saying "I'll never forget the impact Naruto had on my childhood" would be a good thing. Now it will be nothing but a burden.

 

Only thing good I got out of NaruSaku was understanding love and then meeting Amanda and all you other amazing people here. I swear with NaruSaku I learned to treat women like they had it all with me. That's what Naruto offered Sakura, but she wanted to be a housewife of a boring guy who left her to raise the kid alone instead. Kishimoto said it right himself. "I suck at writing romance." You sure do you piece of garbage. One Piece owned all your sells anyway, so I'll have fun watching him show you how it's done for the next few years before he quits. Because you know. After spending over 15 years working on one manga. He isn't tired of writing a masterpiece. Then again... Naruto didn't end up a masterpiece... did it?

Couldn't agree more

Read your profile man, I just wanted to say we probably share the best OTP..... Brady/Belichick. TB12 = Greatest Living American and all shall bow down to Darth Hoodie!!!

Hey guys,

I hope you all bear with me because this is going to be a pretty extensive post. I’m a long time lurker, all the way back to about 2008/2009. My only post on this website was in the old debate thread I believe. If you guys totally want to TL; DR this I won’t hold it against you. Here we go…..

As stated in my profile Naruto is the last manga/anime/cartoon I’ve followed in all my twenty-three years of living. Definitely the first series where I truly cared about what happened with the shipping. Truth be told in the beginning I honestly didn’t think our pairing would have a shot watching all of part one but I was still fully invested into it because I loved the concept of the hero and the heroine getting together (shipped Harry/Hermione, Ash/Misty, Tai/Sora, and for those who used to watch BeyBlade, Tyson/Hilary). Since DBZ was my first anime I ever got into I never cared about the shipping.

Moving on, in Shippuden, especially when I started reading the manga, I seriously began to hope that a favorite pairing of mine would turn out to be canon for once. The progression of scouring through the Interwebz from NarutoBase, NarutoForums which were filled with NS bashing and hating of Sakura, her being the butt of many jokes, I happened  to come across this beautiful gem, this soliloquy, this little slice of reprieve where like-minded people inspired me to believe in my original pairing because the manga gave some D*MNING evidence (or so I thought). The fact that many of you truly stay positive and keep hope alive is in and of itself evidence that this manga has touched the lives of all of us.

Real life is harsh, it’s cruel, and you are almost certainly guaranteed to never get what you quite want, it was nice to delve into the world of fiction where you see someone overcome insurmountable odds, and achieve every single thing they set out for themselves. Growing up I related to Naruto in a lot of ways, I look at Naruto as the last shade of my childhood leaving me. If these spoilers are truly real (I feel that they truly are) then it really pains me to have to leave it like this, a sense of unfullfillment as I move on to the future.

Moreover, looking back at this story and all the facts that were a supposed given makes me really question my reading comprehension and critical analysis skills, which I feel aren’t too shabby considering I just got accepted into a US medical school. The parallels from Minato/Kushina, and especially Obito/Rin, and Jiraiya/Tsunade and their implications/goals along with Naruto’s convictions of never, EVER giving up tied the knot for me. This, of course, is not counting the countless interactions in the manga. Clearly Masashi Kishimoto and I look at things a lot differently.

Sadly this is the last piece of fiction that I really have been invested in and probably will be for quite some time if not ever, regardless of how the story or pairings turned out. Although I’m probably not going to read the last two chapters (Unless ladyGT does them). Taking a page out of Naruto’s book (supposedly), I’m going to have to give up on my love and move on to something else that can possibly fill the void in some way shape or form, ironically.

Words cannot express enough gratitude to all the moderators on here, from Smiter, Derock, Nate Rivers, Sakura Blossoms, tricksie, FoolishYoungling (seriously, I love you #NoBromo…. TB12 is the greatest living American and all shall bow to Darth Hoodie ). If I missed out any of the other moderators I apologise, I didn’t intentionally leave anyone out. Every single one of you deserves some rounds of applause for making this beautiful place happen.

To all of the veterans on here=>  Atheck you’re style of writing, insights , and vocabulary are truly special), James your sig was probably my favorite on here I found myself agreeing with all of your posts, lady GT you some of, if not the best, fanart I’ve ever seen and while I would totally understand if you decide to never draw NS again, I wouldn’t mind our version of 699/700 at all (send us off the right way), you are loved by this community. I dunno if you all remember Ciardha, most knowledgeable poster on manga I’ve ever seen. GravenImage, NaruSaku4Life3g,  Konan-Sama, luffyq1, Fenris, MangaReader, xxRomanceGirlxx, Chatte, Canadian_DJ, StriderC, catsi563, redragon88, ramenanmitsu, Toasty Warrior, 天地長久, rikoudou, Phantom_999, T XD, and anyone else who I missed, all of your insightful posts always left me with a positive feeling about the story and our pairing.

I could spend the rest of the night listing other insightful posters and their ideas but I will leave you all with this. Although this was just a manga, a piece of fiction, what we had here was an idea, concept, a vision, an ideal, therefore it exists and is a tangible piece of reality. Nobody, whether it be trolls, or even the author himself can take that away from us. Use these lessons that we have learned to accomplish any goal of yours.

I wish each and every single one of you nothing but the best, stick together through these turbulent times, for it is our BONDS that we rely on to keep on living.

In all likely hood this will probably be my last post on this site and I may come back here eventually after everything has settled down and sunk in. Feel free to respond to any of this. For now I’m bidding you all adieu.

Much love bruhs,

Sparty out

(Damn, that second to last paragraph was cheesy as all hell… XD)