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Aftermath of the Ending


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#101 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 04:00 AM

Why was it necessary to kill him? No one knew what happened other than Shikamaru. No one would ever go there other than the Nara. So he can just suffer sensory deprivation forever. It's not very pleasant to think about, but he certainly deserved it, considering he derived so much pleasure from killing people.

 

Actually, he shouldn't have even been killed. They should have dug him up after they won the war. Because they forgave Sasuke and Orochimaru who were just as bad as he was. You can't pick and choose.

He suffered the same fate as the many incomplete plots that caused there to be a bunch of plotholes - he was simply forgotten about.


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#102 James S Cassidy

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:05 PM

 

You're missing some steps here.

 

(1) This assumes he believes in the custom, which is something we don't know. It's inclusion doesn't mean he believes in it. It could be nothing more than a convenient plot device. He could also include in complete ignorance of the custom. We don't know.

 

(2) If he does follow it, would it be unusual for the midwife to keep it?

(1) Wait, didn't we establish that Kishimoto was old fashioned and several scenes throughout the manga were using old fashioned Japanese customs that in modern age are not as predominate? Now all of a sudden he doesn't go with old fashioned customs?

(2) I don't know, would it be unusual for a rabbi to keep a forskin after a circumcision?

 

(3) Gaiden makes it pretty clear that the bio mother is Sakura. Technically, we don't even know what Suigetsu compared the cord to. I assume Sarara's DNA as she is standing right there. Where would he get Sakura's to compare it too? There is no obvious source at the time. DNA in a vaccum isn't helpful if it's identity you are after. You must compare it to another sample. Therefore, Suigetsu's match would match the cord to Sarada, which would only tell you that Karin had Sarada's cord. Nothing more.  It doesn't ID the mother, no matter who it is. The mother's identity is being assumed on the basis only she would have the cord. It's an unproven assumption (that is outright contradicted by the end of Gaiden). The comment about by Suigetsu about Karin being the mother was him making an assumption.

 

(4) The end of Gaiden answers openly contradicts that assumption. And what;s more, it;s occurs sometime later (i.e. when Sasuke and Sakura are not around). In other words, its written for the audience, not the characters. There is no point to this scene if Karin's lying as the manga would have already established the point this scene made (assuming she is lying). There is no motive or reason to lie to Suigetsu and it would makes sense she'd be pissed that he risked messing up hte relationship between her "friend" and her daughter.

Then what was the point of any of it at all? Why go through all the drama if it leads nowhere? That makes Gaiden completely and totally pointless. I know you're probably going to say "Obviously it is just to create a story and show the dynamic of SS," but that is not good enough. I don't believe any of it and it is actually easier to accept that Sakura is the adoptive parents rather than a biological one. And no, sorry, but Gaiden doesn't make it perfectly clear that especially when you have Naruto make a painfully obvious jest saying "Sakura doesn't have to be your biological mother to be your mother." If we go by what Naruto says, then Salad is NOT biologically related to Sakura. Kind of funny how we have to take Karin at her word, but apparently Sakura and Sasuke couldn't just say "Yes, you're our kid." No, they basically were unable to tell her such a simple and obvious fact.

No matter what reason Gaiden has there to exist, it is most certainly counter-intuitive.
 

(5) This argument isn't helpful anyway. Gaiden's entire point is that Bonds trump blood. Even if Sakura wasn't the bio mother, it didn't matter because of the bond she shared with her. 

 

Gaiden sucks. I hate it, but I wish it wouldn't get torturer the way it does and extrapolate stuff from it that it does say or is outright contradicts by what's on the page. This really isn't the hill to die on.

 

 

 

Well, sorry Nate, but you're not convincing me....and Gaiden is not convincing me. Especially with the rest of the "canon" in toe for several MAJOR plot reasons.

-Sasuke hasn't been in the village for over 15 years. It has been confirmed in so many sources that are deemed canon. So how was Salad concieved? You mean to tell me Kishimoto doesn't know how sex works?

-Sakura and Karin are all of a sudden best friends? How did Sakura find Karin in the first place? This entire story plot is ridiculous. This always seems to be a cliche plot point that the Naruto teams loves doing. "All of a sudden Sakura is best friends with.....such and such girl and they go on adventures albeit breifly." Since when and why was Ino left out? Apparently the only person Sakura was not best friends with was the one the canon established were best friends in the beginning.

-There is no record at all of Salad's birth. Only word of mouth. Hell, taken at face value that means Gaiden proves that Sasuke and Sakura are NOT married and that Sakura is just "playing" as Sasuke's wife. They don't even have any pictures.

-Orochimaru has an entire lab made basically to genetic creations.....but apparently making a Sasuke baby is out of the question? Even Wolverine got a daughter this way through X-23.

-There is nothing to suggest that Salad is related to Sakura in any way. We can't go by what Kishimoto says because he is a liar. We can't go by what the story says because that lies too. We can't go by what any other person says because again...it is all lies and retcons. So what is it?

If Gaiden is proof of anything....it is proof that Boruto, the ending, and everything about Naruto is one colossal kitten up. Kishimoto has written on page that SS are miserable, Naruto has gotten dumber and has no idea what is going on, Hinata is useless and Naruto doesn't care about her to the point that if Sasuke needs anything it is his excuse to get away from his misrable family.

If we are to take Gaiden at face value, then that is what that all means....and I am guessing nobody wants to accept any of that either.



 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 April 2018 - 05:21 PM.

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#103 griff142

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:23 PM

(1) Wait, didn't we establish that Kishimoto was old fashioned and several scenes throughout the manga were using old fashioned Japanese customs that in modern age are not as predominate? Now all of a sudden he doesn't go with old fashioned customs?
(2) I don't know, would it be unusual for a rabbi to keep a forskin after a circumcision?
 

Then what was the point of any of it at all? Why go through all the drama if it leads nowhere? That makes Gaiden completely and totally pointless. I know you're probably going to say "Obviously it is just to create a story and show the dynamic of SS," but that is not good enough. I don't believe any of it and it is actually easier to accept that Sakura is the adoptive parents rather than a biological one. And no, sorry, but Gaiden doesn't make it perfectly clear that especially when you have Naruto make a painfully obvious jest saying "Sakura doesn't have to be your biological mother to be your mother." If we go by what Naruto says, then Salad is NOT biologically related to Sakura. Kind of funny how we have to take Karin at her word, but apparently Sakura and Sasuke couldn't just say "Yes, you're our kid." No, they basically were unable to tell her such a simple and obvious fact.
No matter what reason Gaiden has there to exist, it is most certainly counter-intuitive.
 

 
Well, sorry Nate, but you're not convincing me....and Gaiden is not convincing me. Especially with the rest of the "canon" in toe for several MAJOR plot reasons.
-Sasuke hasn't been in the village for over 15 years. It has been confirmed in so many sources that are deemed canon. So how was Salad concieved? You mean to tell me Kishimoto doesn't know how sex works?
-Sakura and Karin are all of a sudden best friends? How did Sakura find Karin in the first place? This entire story plot is ridiculous.
-There is no record at all of Salad's birth. Only word of mouth. Hell, taken at face value that means Gaiden proves that Sasuke and Sakura are NOT married and that Sakura is just "playing" as Sasuke's wife. They don't even have any pictures.
-Orochimaru has an entire lab made basically to genetic creations.....but apparently making a Sasuke baby is out of the question? Even Wolverine got a daughter this way through X-23.
-There is nothing to suggest that Salad is related to Sakura in any way. We can't go by what Kishimoto says because he is a liar. We can't go by what the story says because that lies too. We can't go by what any other person says because again...it is all lies and retcons. So what is it?
If Gaiden is proof of anything....it is proof that Boruto, the ending, and everything about Naruto is one colossal kitten up. Kishimoto has written on page that SS are miserable, Naruto has gotten dumber and has no idea what is going on, Hinata is useless and Naruto doesn't care about her to the point that if Sasuke needs anything it is his excuse to get away from his misrable family.
If we are to take Gaiden at face value, then that is what that all means....and I am guessing nobody wants to accept any of that either.

Really good points James. All these retcons and plot holes really makes me want to rip my hair out because they shouldn't have been there in the first place. You can find good ways to create drama in a series but so far with Gaiden and Boruto, Kishi is giving a tutorial on what not to do to build a story. If you had a list for bad manga story telling, Kishi would have a check mark by all of them.

#104 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:26 PM

(1) Wait, didn't we establish that Kishimoto was old fashioned and several scenes throughout the manga were using old fashioned Japanese customs that in modern age are not as predominate? Now all of a sudden he doesn't go with old fashioned customs?
(2) I don't know, would it be unusual for a rabbi to keep a forskin after a circumcision?
 

Then what was the point of any of it at all? Why go through all the drama if it leads nowhere? That makes Gaiden completely and totally pointless. I know you're probably going to say "Obviously it is just to create a story and show the dynamic of SS," but that is not good enough. I don't believe any of it and it is actually easier to accept that Sakura is the adoptive parents rather than a biological one. And no, sorry, but Gaiden doesn't make it perfectly clear that especially when you have Naruto make a painfully obvious jest saying "Sakura doesn't have to be your biological mother to be your mother." If we go by what Naruto says, then Salad is NOT biologically related to Sakura. Kind of funny how we have to take Karin at her word, but apparently Sakura and Sasuke couldn't just say "Yes, you're our kid." No, they basically were unable to tell her such a simple and obvious fact.
No matter what reason Gaiden has there to exist, it is most certainly counter-intuitive.
 

 
Well, sorry Nate, but you're not convincing me....and Gaiden is not convincing me. Especially with the rest of the "canon" in toe for several MAJOR plot reasons.
-Sasuke hasn't been in the village for over 15 years. It has been confirmed in so many sources that are deemed canon. So how was Salad concieved? You mean to tell me Kishimoto doesn't know how sex works?
-Sakura and Karin are all of a sudden best friends? How did Sakura find Karin in the first place? This entire story plot is ridiculous.
-There is no record at all of Salad's birth. Only word of mouth. Hell, taken at face value that means Gaiden proves that Sasuke and Sakura are NOT married and that Sakura is just "playing" as Sasuke's wife. They don't even have any pictures.
-Orochimaru has an entire lab made basically to genetic creations.....but apparently making a Sasuke baby is out of the question? Even Wolverine got a daughter this way through X-23.
-There is nothing to suggest that Salad is related to Sakura in any way. We can't go by what Kishimoto says because he is a liar. We can't go by what the story says because that lies too. We can't go by what any other person says because again...it is all lies and retcons. So what is it?
If Gaiden is proof of anything....it is proof that Boruto, the ending, and everything about Naruto is one colossal kitten up. Kishimoto has written on page that SS are miserable, Naruto has gotten dumber and has no idea what is going on, Hinata is useless and Naruto doesn't care about her to the point that if Sasuke needs anything it is his excuse to get away from his misrable family.
If we are to take Gaiden at face value, then that is what that all means....and I am guessing nobody wants to accept any of that either.


I thought it was clear when every girl in Naruto's generation became a house wife (minus tenten, though she is hardly better off) that Kishimoto was old fashioned.

You know I bet Gadien was suppose to end with Karin being the mum but got reconed when editors heard a backlash from as fans.

Wouldn't surprise me if she was a synthetic human like Mitsuki is but mixed with sasuke and Karin's dna

#105 James S Cassidy

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:40 PM

I thought it was clear when every girl in Naruto's generation became a house wife (minus tenten, though she is hardly better off) that Kishimoto was old fashioned.

You know I bet Gadien was suppose to end with Karin being the mum but got reconed when editors heard a backlash from as fans.

Wouldn't surprise me if she was a synthetic human like Mitsuki is but mixed with sasuke and Karin's dna

I am not surprised at anything with this series anymore.

The only thing I got left is I can never believe how far low they can go until they go there. My mind can think of infinite black chasms of unending forboding and somehow....SOMEHOW....SP and the Boruto writers can dig even deeper than that.

I also forgot to add something:
Why would Karin give Sakura her glasses for Salad to wear? Why does an Uchiha even need to wear glasses at all? Why have Salad wear glasses at all eluding to Karin being the mother? That's another plot point that makes no sense.

I agree with bluestar. It is alot more likely to believe that Karin is supposed to be Salad's mother, but the editor's made him change it....again, because "SS has to be canon."

Kishimoto wanted to show the SS dynamic? Okay, so here is the dynamic. They are miserable, unmarried, and have no kids. Sakura is delusional who only thinks she is married to Sasuke and Sauske doesn't want to say anything because this keep her out of his business. Why fight it when you can just let her do her own thing and you are free to do yours? Sasuke doesn't care about Sakura, never will, and never will his "family" ever be on his radar. It is Naruto or bust. Naruto is miserable with Hinata and this whole thing is one big huge joke of lies, denial, kitten, ignorance, and downright a prison. So Kishimoto, at Gaiden's face value, wants us to know how miserable everyone is. m

Great story.....10 out 5 stars.

Kishimoto has proven that he could write anything in the Naruto story and the fandom will eat it up claiming how "romantic and amazing it is." This is why he gave up. The fandom everyone  told him to cater to is the fandom that never gave a kitten about the story in the first place. As long as Hinata got her good Naruto kitten.....nothing else matters and I really mean NOTHING....ELSE.....MATTERS.

 


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#106 Phantom_999

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 06:51 PM

All I have to say is, If what matters that it is Sakura raising Sarada, not that she gave birth to her, then WHY SHOULD it matter that Sakura is the biological mother if bonds mean more than blood? It is a complete cop out, if you ask me, that Sarada questions if Sakura is her mother, goes on a journey to find who her mother is, confirms a DNA match between her and Karin on a computer, Have Karin be the one to keep Sarada's umbilical cord as if Sarada's birth is some g*&d@%#èd b*!!s?<} government secret, only to say "PSYCHE!!! Sakura is your biological mother afterall even though again it is who raises and loves you, not who you are born to that makes them your mother or father!!!!" Sasuke and Sakura have always kept Sarada in the dark about their entire family bond up to that point, yet we have to take their word for it? Why is it that Sakura can't give a straight answer to Sarada when she is being asked questions about her husband? Why is everything that is told to Sarada ambiguous and up in the air instead of a straight up yes or no answer? why didn't Karin tell directly to Sarada that she is not the latter's mother, but Sakura's midwife, and NOT TO Suigetsu? Above all, why could Sakura herself not tell Sarada directly and clearly to her face " I'm your mother whether or not you were born to me", just like how Po told told his adopted father that he(Po) is his (Ping's) son no matter what in Kung Fu Panda 2? Or better, yet like in Digimon Adventure
 with Izzy and his adopted parents where they say he is still their boy even though they are not his birth parents.

For goodness sake, in Dragon Ball there is no physical evidence that Vegeta an Bulma are officially married. YET it is is treated as common knowledge by all of their friends and accepted, neither of them go around saying "my husband" or "my wife" to refer to each other like they are trying to CONVINCE THEMSELVES AND THE PUBLIC AND AUDIENCE that they are married, and Vegeta is around to to see Bulma give birth to Bulla. Hell, even when Vegeta and Bulma were not married Bulma had no problem admitting Vegeta is Trunks' father like she would choke on her blood by saying it, and Vegeta wasn't with her at that time either. It is funny how Dragon Ball is not even given a romance sublot or shipping development for any couple besides Gohan yet those couples and the respective children of those couples are far more believable than Sarada's soap opera of "Who's my mommy!? *sob*"


Edited by Phantom_999, 07 April 2018 - 09:04 PM.

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#107 Kasimir38

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 07:44 PM

^^Agree!! So much!!

Why did they let Salad rebel against Sakura? Because poor Salad had to live through the terrible relationship that is SasuSaku. She grew up without a father figure, with a mother that was constantly lying and not explaining what was going on. Where is my father? Are you two in love? Sakura: Well, he touched my forehead.. Salad:  :shifty: 

But their feelings are connected. Because Salad exists. I still think she is Karins daughter lol :facepalm:

Po and his "dads" have a better bond than any parent with their kid in Boruto. Ok...I'm talking about NH and SS. (Rock and Metal are great even though it's a bit creepy) Maybe unintentionally, but the creators kind of show the flaws of the relationships through the Next Generation. I feel like there will be a twist and everything is different, but I still ask myself from time to time: How would things have turned out if Naruto and Sakura had a child and Sasuke and Karin? I think Naruto and Sakura would have been a very dangerous couple and she would have been far more useful than Hinata in terms of education.


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#108 James S Cassidy

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 05:41 PM

All I have to say is, If what matters that it is Sakura raising Sarada, not that she gave birth to her, then WHY SHOULD it matter that Sakura is the biological mother if bonds mean more than blood? It is a complete cop out, if you ask me, that Sarada questions if Sakura is her mother, goes on a journey to find who her mother is, confirms a DNA match between her and Karin on a computer, Have Karin be the one to keep Sarada's umbilical cord as if Sarada's birth is some g*&d@%#èd b*!!s?<} government secret, only to say "PSYCHE!!! Sakura is your biological mother afterall even though again it is who raises and loves you, not who you are born to that makes them your mother or father!!!!" Sasuke and Sakura have always kept Sarada in the dark about their entire family bond up to that point, yet we have to take their word for it? Why is it that Sakura can't give a straight answer to Sarada when she is being asked questions about her husband? Why is everything that is told to Sarada ambiguous and up in the air instead of a straight up yes or no answer? why didn't Karin tell directly to Sarada that she is not the latter's mother, but Sakura's midwife, and NOT TO Suigetsu? Above all, why could Sakura herself not tell Sarada directly and clearly to her face " I'm your mother whether or not you were born to me", just like how Po told told his adopted father that he(Po) is his (Ping's) son no matter what in Kung Fu Panda 2? Or better, yet like in Digimon Adventure
 with Izzy and his adopted parents where they say he is still their boy even though they are not his birth parents.

For goodness sake, in Dragon Ball there is no physical evidence that Vegeta an Bulma are officially married. YET it is is treated as common knowledge by all of their friends and accepted, neither of them go around saying "my husband" or "my wife" to refer to each other like they are trying to CONVINCE THEMSELVES AND THE PUBLIC AND AUDIENCE that they are married, and Vegeta is around to to see Bulma give birth to Bulla. Hell, even when Vegeta and Bulma were not married Bulma had no problem admitting Vegeta is Trunks' father like she would choke on her blood by saying it, and Vegeta wasn't with her at that time either. It is funny how Dragon Ball is not even given a romance sublot or shipping development for any couple besides Gohan yet those couples and the respective children of those couples are far more believable than Sarada's soap opera of "Who's my mommy? *sob*"

Not only that, but after that whole ordeal Salad STILL questions the validity of Sasuke and Sakura's marriage. She STILL questions everything about her family. I don't see Trunks asking Bulma "What did you see in him?"

It is just so aggrivating because Gaiden is so totally pointless in every aspect. SS literally is the most contrived pairing in anime history. They are SO contrived that even their moral lessons are contrived. Everything they do is poinltess.

So I will say again:


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#109 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 07:49 PM

Not only that, but after that whole ordeal Salad STILL questions the validity of Sasuke and Sakura's marriage. She STILL questions everything about her family. I don't see Trunks asking Bulma "What did you see in him?"

It is just so aggravating because Gaiden is so totally pointless in every aspect. SS literally is the most contrived pairing in anime history. They are SO contrived that even their moral lessons are contrived. Everything they do is pointless.

I'm not sure if Trunks did or not because it been years since I watched that and time and the abridge has kind of clouded my memories of it. But Trunks never questioned that vegeta was his father, his main issue with him was how big of an ass he was. Salad outright questioned both Sakura and Sasuke, and when she saw that picture she started to believe karin was her mother (which she was upset about.) This was resolved not by either of her parents. Instead it was resolved by Naruto going on about how blood doesn't matter bonds do, and Salad decided it didn't matter who her parents are; she had accepted Sakura as her mother figure, and Naruto as a father figure.



#110 griff142

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 03:22 AM

I'm not sure if Trunks did or not because it been years since I watched that and time and the abridge has kind of clouded my memories of it. But Trunks never questioned that vegeta was his father, his main issue with him was how big of an ass he was. Salad outright questioned both Sakura and Sasuke, and when she saw that picture she started to believe karin was her mother (which she was upset about.) This was resolved not by either of her parents. Instead it was resolved by Naruto going on about how blood doesn't matter bonds do, and Salad decided it didn't matter who her parents are; she had accepted Sakura as her mother figure, and Naruto as a father figure.


Well the questioning of Sarada's mother problem could have been more believable if Sarada looked any like Sakura. To me there is no resemblance whatsoever between them. It looks like they already had her design ready to be Karin's daughter but they needed SS to happen so they made Sakura the mother instead without changing anything.

#111 jak123

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 06:05 AM

Well the questioning of Sarada's mother problem could have been more believable if Sarada looked any like Sakura. To me there is no resemblance whatsoever between them. It looks like they already had her design ready to be Karin's daughter but they needed SS to happen so they made Sakura the mother instead without changing anything.

Yeah because she looks like the child of Sasuke and Karin.



#112 Kasimir38

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 02:23 PM

She is the child of Sasuke and Karin and no one will prove me wrong.   :eager: 


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#113 T XD

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 03:20 PM

Sarada is Karin's daughter.

 

If Kishimoto wanted to make Karin to be Sakura's daughter when he was designing her, then he wouldn't have made Karin not having any resemblance to Sakura.



#114 DrK

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 03:24 PM

It doesn't help at all if Karin is the mother. It really doesn't. All it means is that Sakura ruined her whole life for absolutely no reason. 



#115 Kasimir38

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 03:44 PM

It would make Karin happy :woot:

It would mean that Sarada and Boruto are related.


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#116 T XD

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 05:17 PM

It would make Karin happy :woot:

It would mean that Sarada and Boruto are related.

How this would make Sarada and Boruto related ?

 

If it's a joke then I didn't get it :fist:


Edited by T XD, 08 April 2018 - 05:18 PM.


#117 griff142

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 06:07 PM

How this would make Sarada and Boruto related ?
 
If it's a joke then I didn't get it :fist:

They would be cousins if Sarada was Karin's daughter.

#118 KClaws_2

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 07:26 PM

There was a fan theory that Boruto and Sarada were supposed to be NS and SK kids. For Sarada, Gaiden is pretty much self-explanatory.

 

For Boruto, people pointed out how his jacket has magneta/pink stripes, and his hair is supposed to resemble a flower in bloom.

 

It is what you make of it at this point, I guess.



#119 griff142

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 10:32 PM

There was a fan theory that Boruto and Sarada were supposed to be NS and SK kids. For Sarada, Gaiden is pretty much self-explanatory.
 
For Boruto, people pointed out how his jacket has magneta/pink stripes, and his hair is supposed to resemble a flower in bloom.
 
It is what you make of it at this point, I guess.

The only reason it is fan theory is because it is not canon. Clearly how the character is designed that she was supposed to be Karin's daughter. They were too lazy to change her and think we were too stupid to notice.

With Boruto he is a Naruto clone but nothing about his personality or appearance screams Hinata whatsoever. The only added really whisker marks to Himawari and they think that is enough.

#120 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 03:38 AM

There was a fan theory that Boruto and Sarada were supposed to be NS and SK kids. For Sarada, Gaiden is pretty much self-explanatory.

 

For Boruto, people pointed out how his jacket has magneta/pink stripes, and his hair is supposed to resemble a flower in bloom.

 

It is what you make of it at this point, I guess.

Too be honest this was always likely since Kishimoto probably already had the children ready for the ending. When it happened he didn't feel like making new ones -other then the daughter- (because the last movie last scene probably had two kids a boy & a girl in it). So, he just kept them the same and changed the mothers. He changed Salad's outfit in the gaiden due to demands because everyone was pointing out she looked nothing like Sakura. So he gave her Sakura's part two outfit, and super-strength to shut people up. 






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