45 replies to this topic

[Codus N]

Well, the reason why I created this thread is because I've been smelling something real fishy... Let's begin from the attack instigated by Hamas. Now, this is a fact that I've been thinking seriously. So far, thanks to them about 400 or so Palestinians have been killed up until now & they've only taken out 1 soldier, ONE Israeli soldier. Now this is the strange part. From the looks of this, we definitely see that Israel has the upper hand, so why would Hamas attack in the first place? that's why this is very fishy. What do you think?

P.S no flames!!!

[Nate River]

Well, the reason why I created this thread is because I've been smelling something real fishy... Let's begin from the attack instigated by Hamas. Now, this is a fact that I've been thinking seriously. So far, thanks to them about 400 or so Palestinians have been killed up until now & they've only taken out 1 soldier, ONE Israeli soldier. Now this is the strange part. From the looks of this, we definitely see that Israel has the upper hand, so why would Hamas attack in the first place? that's why this is very fishy. What do you think?

P.S no flames!!!

Why is it strange? Hezbollah did essentially thing Hamas did here and fired rockets into Isreal only two years ago. Isreal retaliated, the international community complained and Israel backed off. Hezbollah suffered no lasting consequences for the attack. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas is expecting the international community to bail them out like they did with Hezbolllah in 2006. Israel probably wants to disable them completely this time so after the next cease fire expires (like the one that expired before Hamas attacked) Hamas doesn't begin firing rockets at them again.

I think you vastly underestimate how much Hamas hates the state of Israel. They're founding documents explicitly call for the complete destruction of Israel.

[Pite]

I remember Barack Obama saying this quote.

“If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that. And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.”

Though I would consider this an overkill in a massive scale, I can understand the frustration of the Israeli government over the missile attacks. Also consider the political implications, Israel is goingto have an election pretty soon, and the leading party wants to show itself as a strong decisive leader.
This is a really good article from "The Economist" On the War in Gaza

Edited by Pite, 04 January 2009 - 03:49 PM.

[Dormin]

Pew, a sticky situasion now, isnt it? nah.

Why do we attack? for 8 years the israeli cities that suronded the Gaza strip are bombed, with short repisels once in awhile, now what ticked us out was the fact we had a cease-fire agreement with Hamas, we don't attack them, they don't attack us. thing is, they still bombarded us. and we did nothing, till now that is.

Do I support my goverment decision? nope, as the guy said before me we have been through this crap so many times before.
Some organzation attacks us, declering they are going to obliterate us, we warn them not to attack us, they say:COME GET SOME!!!, we say: OK!!!, we enter their teritory, kick their arse, they start crying to the rest of the world about the big evil zionist who attacks the poor arab people, we kill some kids, the world is in outrage, we pull out, the organzation declere they won the war, we feel proud because we kicked their arse, and a new genration of arabs and israelis learns to hate one another, HURRAY!

Nothing strange here New, that's radical islam. That's the way they think, they don't care about human lives, 5 years ago some dude bombed himself in a rasturnet and his mother said: "I wish I had 5 more sons like him"
Understand this, they don't think as the western world thinks their entire perspective is different then us, They can't be bought, they can't be threaten, they can't be frighten, they can't be controled. they are like berserking animals that have waited 60 years in a cage and now have been unleashed upon us.

And New. 400? The palstinans themselves said we killed 200, and the UN after that most of the time halves that number

Edited by Dormin, 04 January 2009 - 06:42 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Stay safe those of you over there

[Codus N]

Why is it strange? Hezbollah did essentially thing Hamas did here and fired rockets into Isreal only two years ago. Isreal retaliated, the international community complained and Israel backed off. Hezbollah suffered no lasting consequences for the attack. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas is expecting the international community to bail them out like they did with Hezbolllah in 2006. Israel probably wants to disable them completely this time so after the next cease fire expires (like the one that expired before Hamas attacked) Hamas doesn't begin firing rockets at them again.

I think you vastly underestimate how much Hamas hates the state of Israel. They're founding documents explicitly call for the complete destruction of Israel.

Huh? I thought Israel attacked first. (During the Hezbollah war). & oh, This is a pretty crazy theory from my pops, he says the reason they can't make nice is because the arab world is deliberately taking their hands off in this matter because I hear the Israel-Palestinians could rule the arab world if they wanted to. So, that's why the arab world is having them destroy each other ( and that's why this has been going on for 50 years)

Edited by Newkerz, 05 January 2009 - 10:44 AM.

[Dormin]

Huh? I thought Israel attacked first. (During the Hezbollah war). & oh, This is a pretty crazy theory from my pops, he says the reason they can't make nice is because the arab world is deliberately taking their hands off in this matter because I hear the Israel-Palestinians could rule the arab world if they wanted to. So, that's why the arab world is having them destroy each other ( and that's why this has been going on for 50 years)

I will just respond with a big huh on the entire object.

Nah, they attacked first.

About your father's theory hmmm Nah.
Mostly it's us palestinians and the Israelis who are to blame, but Iran isn't helping either. they fund the hamas, trains them, but most importnet of all, insted of trying to use their power to preach peace, they just push the palestinians to fight aginst us.

But as I said, our problem, none of you could solve it but us.

[NutMan]

Israel's response to rocket attacks that killed no one is unbelievable. There are better ways to go about this, even militarily.

But the Palestinians are NOT angels like some make them out to be. They should've expected a response for attacking Israel and Israel has every right to respond. It was only 50 years ago that the Arab world closed in around Israel to destroy it. Not that that would happen again, but Israel does have legitimate reasons to be afraid. However as I said already their response was insane. They've killed, what, 300 people? The majority innocent I'm sure.

[Nate River]

Israel's response to rocket attacks that killed no one is unbelievable. There are better ways to go about this, even militarily.

But the Palestinians are NOT angels like some make them out to be. They should've expected a response for attacking Israel and Israel has every right to respond. It was only 50 years ago that the Arab world closed in around Israel to destroy it. Not that that would happen again, but Israel does have legitimate reasons to be afraid. However as I said already their response was insane. They've killed, what, 300 people? The majority innocent I'm sure.

The question then is: what is a sane response? When orginizations like Hamas continue to fire rockets into the country what is a fair response?

Israel did what was asked and pulled out of the West Bank and Gaza and in return Hezbollah and Hamas have used the territory ceded to shoot at them. When can they go in an completely disarm them so they can't be shot at by these guys again?

Many innocent, possibly so, since Hamas is supposedly doing what Hezbollah did: hiding the weapons in civiliian homes with women and children. It makes it harder to search for them and if Israel does retailate and destroy the sites it gives people like Hamas an excuse to cry fowl. It worked wonders for Hezbollah in 2006.

[Pite]

It is known for Middle Eastern Terrorist to use civilians as shields against ground and airstrikes. Heck nearly every defending side does that, nearly I mean all those that think of fighting by all means without restraint.

According to the UN out of 500 dead, only a quarter of them are civilians, most of them are militants, Hamas leaders or maybe policemen. The civilian deaths are often due to Hamas living and storing weaponry in civilian quarters. As horrible as it sounds collateral damage is invetible.

I'm actually suprised that Isreal only managed to kill 500, I was expecting a much bigger number considering the intesity of air/naval strikes.

[Codus N]

Israel's response to rocket attacks that killed no one is unbelievable. There are better ways to go about this, even militarily.

I'm actually suprised that Isreal only managed to kill 500, I was expecting a much bigger number considering the intesity of air/naval strikes.

That's it NutMan! that's what I was trying to say, thanks!!
Oh, Pite? 500 is already a pretty big figure.

NutMan, I guess I now understand about my country's reaction. (But it's mostly motored by a political party so that's why I'm not giving a damn about it too much) So, anyways the point is, they're both at fault. Hamas for attacking first, Israel for responding in an outrageous way (although I can understand why) Man, why can't those Hamas officials drop the military act. Either way, Both are just making everything worse. They're making each other suffer. Like Pain said, pain just creates more pain, hatred just creates more hatred. Why can't they understand this simple fact? The best thing they can do is sit together and talk things over. They also have to realize those 2 countries will never become prosperous if this keeps going on because the next generation will just think of war, war & war. They don't deserve that.

Spoiler --Click here to view--

I hope Naruto can convert Pain real soon. I wanna see Kishi wrap up his whole war & peace philosophy soon :thumbs: .

Edited by Newkerz, 06 January 2009 - 04:54 AM.

[True]

Well, the reason why I created this thread is because I've been smelling something real fishy... Let's begin from the attack instigated by Hamas. Now, this is a fact that I've been thinking seriously. So far, thanks to them about 400 or so Palestinians have been killed up until now & they've only taken out 1 soldier, ONE Israeli soldier. Now this is the strange part. From the looks of this, we definitely see that Israel has the upper hand, so why would Hamas attack in the first place? that's why this is very fishy. What do you think?

P.S no flames!!!

Well first off it really isn't a war, I'd much rather call it a conflict since really Israel has the superior upper hand. Why would Hamas attack Israel when it knows that chance of victory is nearly impossible? It's because this conflict has been going on for more than sixty years and will never stop until once side has given up. It's all about the claims over the land and who has rightful ownership (this is a very tricky and complex situation and has been disputed ever since Israel was formed after World War II). After the Hamas were democratically voted in (yes it was democratic, but not 'recognized' by international law, but the people of Palestine choose to vote them in) the opposing party Fatah took control of the West Bank, while Hamas took Gaza. Palestine is basically controlled by two different factions who have control over two seperate parts. Hamas has said it is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Israel in return put up a blockage around Gaza to prevent supplies (such as arms/weapons) to enter the Gaza. They had a six month truce, which ended on the 25th and when Hamas fired rockets into Israel because they refused to lift the blockage. Now Israel is going to essentially destroy all the rockets and Hama's facilities.

As for the large death toll, you have to realize just how small Gaza is. Its about 25 miles long and 8 miles wide and has over 1.4 million residents, which is really really small. It's pretty much a large ghetto since it has no natural resources and no stable economy. Obviously Hamas buildings are going to be confined closely with civilians and they will be effected by the Israel infiltration. I'm sure they do realize they may use their own people has human shields and hope to get international sympathy, but you can't say that all of the civilians living there chose to be so, and most were dragged into it. It's going to be hard for Israel to try to differ from militants and civilians, but unfortunately due to the situation and how the Gaza strip is laid out, there will be more civilian casualties than you can expect.

But the Palestinian people choose for Hamas to represent them and be in power. They knew that Hamas was dedicated to the destruction of Israel and what the consequences would be like if Israel (which is easily the strongest military force in the Middle East) would have to defend itself with its superior forces. It's sad to say, but the Palestinians living in Gaza are feeling the classic 'you reap what you sow' by electing Hamas to represent them. Why do they do this even when they know their chances of success are dismal? Because that's how its been for the last sixty years. Israel will defend its right to exist, and Palestine will continue to fight oppression and get their lands back. Even if its a losing battle, the people see Hamas as someone who will stand up to 'big bad' Israel. It happens constantly where there is usually a truce declared by the two countries. A militant party that hates Israel will start to gather arms and weaponry to take on Israel, Israel will defend itself and take out the group, wash and repeat with blood soaked hands. It will repeat itself until one side is completely exterminated, and for now that looks like to be Palestine.

I really can't choose a side to pick as I find both play a part in it. With Israels blockade supplies can't enter Gaza and while it does help prevent arms from entering Gaza, it also prevents supplies such as food, water, medicine, etc; from entering and thus causing a humanitarian crisis. Yet you also have Hamas that occupy Gaza and gather up weapons/arms that they plan to attack Israel with, and you can't allow them to put your borders and people at danger. It's messy and hard to work out, but the stronger force will have the advantage in this situation (that being Israel).

Also Dormin I hope you stay safe and make it through the ordeal. Best luck man!

[Kamina-Yoshi]

I'd say Hamas is fighting because they don't know how to fight like Martin Luther King, Jr. They want to rebuild their country, but they only know to do it with sword and bomb. However, if they want freedom, then Hamas should try non-violence, and passive aggressiveness. Israel has the clear upper hand, and I think they are the terrorists in this case. They've been slaughtering the Palestinians for over a year now, with 5 dead for Israel, and hundreds, maybe even more then a thousand, dead with hundreds dead.

Now, let's see how bad it really is: Israel recently bombed a man that was a senior Hamas military target. However, he was surrounded by four of his wives, and 13 of his children. Israel bombed his home, killed him and his wives, and several of his children. "Collateral damage" as their deaths are sometimes described as.

Hamas was elected fairly and squarely, and won the region, fairly. Many people would rally behind Palestine if only they would take some notes from Martin Luther King, Jr., and try to do protests and not bombings. Israel has been using gas against them, and air strikes on civilian targets that the Palestinians can't possibly counter against, but only with a few bombs. Now, when a house gets bombed and it only causes a wall to come down, and when Israel counters and kills many civilians, I wonder who is the real terrorist here. I am not saying all of Israel are terrorists, but the people in the Gaza Strip have been denied supplies for hospitals and food, even when about 50% of the population are around 14 years old. And now that they invade, I wonder if this will turn into another Iraq, or maybe like a puppet-government scenario.

You see, if Israel invades and overthrows the elected government of Hamas and try to kill every last one of them, that would take years. And even then, Palestinians would only rally behind Hamas more, because in their view, Hamas won fair and square, and are their only protection. This is true. As well, Hamas knows Gaza like the back of their hands. If an occupation will happen, I will not be surprised if Israel will face a guerrilla war of their own in their.

"We must not face violence with violence, but face violence with passive aggressiveness."
-Martin Luther King, Jr. [Or at least what I believe he once said.]


Basically, my view on this matter. -Shrug.-

[Dormin]

LOOOOOOOOOONG (Or of course you can just read what True wrote, couldn't have said it better )


Yoshi you are so right in one area but in the other... allow me to disagree.

Let's take it from the ending, I 100% agree with you, we would not solve a thing by trying to remove a party which was selected by the palastinan people. It will serve only to create more hatred and bitternes from the Palestinians and thus, will matter nothing. truly agree with

I wouldn't argue with you about the death toll, you are right of course there are alot more Palestinian casulties then israeli ones, their suffring is 100% more then ours.

But Us being the Terrorist? hrmm


One thing I ask you, what do you know about what's really hapning in Gaza strip? Newspapers? internet? blogs? my brother serves right now in Gaza. I live in israel, I vote Maraz ( The Israeli most extreme left party) In my life I talked with Israelis, palastinan, everyone, most people who hears my views considers me a traitor for my views. I DONT SUPPORT THIS WAR, but I think you are wrong about us. If you care, listen for me for a moment.

My brother saw the other day a woman along with her childrens walking through the streets witha white flag, did he shoot at her? nope.
3 years ago a Palestinian snuck through the border. waited for a car to pass by, a car stopped next to him, a pregnet woman along with her three childrens asked him if he needed a lift, he killed all of them at point blank.
What's my point about these two stories? to show us israelis as saints and the palastinans as black hearted monsters? no, because my brother to watched a few israelis punks who threw stones at palastinan and was ordered not to help him, and there's a palastinan I knoew whose little brother was shot by israeli soldiers and insted of trying to avange him, he started to wander around the country talking to both palastinans and israelis about peace.
My point is that there is no good side or bad side anymore, 20 years ago I would agree with you wholeheartly but it's not the case today. It's more in the shades of grey,

You say we are terroist, why? because we killed more people? because we have a bigger stick then theirs? guess what man this is a WAR, people die in wars civiliens too and when one side is picking a fight with a stronger side this what happnes. this isn't terroisem, this is war.
Hammas wanted this war to happen, for years they tunted the us to renter the Gaza strip so they can "Teach us a lesson" Hammas knows it can't fight us and win, what they want is to us is to enter the Strip kill some civliens which in turn will make the world force us to sign a ceace fire treaty which in turn will make the Hammas stronger then before. Hell they did it 3 times allredy, Taunting us to attack, we attack (yay ), we retret, The Hammas gets stronger as the Palestinians are pissed off and want revenge.
If we are terrorists, then why did we stopped the fighting to give the Palestinians Tons of food, medicne, and clothes? Why did we warned the Palestinians to evecuate from their homes because we are about to bomb, why did we warned the 3th man in Hammas that we are about to bomb his home? the same man you mentioned that died along with his family?
Why the IDF did all of this? not because the IDF gives a damn about the Palestinians, becuse they knew the sec they will blow a house with an entire family in it the whole world will shout at us "Terrorists" and them demned they will retreat. which will happen.
Why do the Palestinians don't run away? because hammas dosn't let them, tell me this, what my brother can do when the guy who is shooting at him is hiding behind a kid and his mother? they don't need living Palestinians, the need Martyrs and victims which they could show around the world.

This isn't from any newspaper, channel, blog or any other thing, this is from my brother who serves now in Gaza, whom you prolly see as one of these terrorists, but I prey he will return safe.

I don't know what drives you about these claims Yoshi, but understand this, this isn't isn't your normal Rebal alliance VS evil empire, this thing isn't as black and white as you see it is. Both sides are being manipulated by extremists organzations who would like nothing more then to see the other side wiped out, These are the terrorists.

Edited by Dormin, 08 January 2009 - 03:25 PM.

[Codus N]

LOOOOOOOOOONG (Or of course you can just read what True wrote, couldn't have said it better )


Yoshi you are so right in one area but in the other... allow me to disagree.

Let's take it from the ending, I 100% agree with you, we would not solve a thing by trying to remove a party which was selected by the palastinan people. It will serve only to create more hatred and bitternes from the Palestinians and thus, will matter nothing. truly agree with

I wouldn't argue with you about the death toll, you are right of course there are alot more Palestinian casulties then israeli ones, their suffring is 100% more then ours.

But Us being the Terrorist? hrmm


One thing I ask you, what do you know about what's really hapning in Gaza strip? Newspapers? internet? blogs? my brother serves right now in Gaza. I live in israel, I vote Maraz ( The Israeli most extreme left party) In my life I talked with Israelis, palastinan, everyone, most people who hears my views considers me a traitor for my views. I DONT SUPPORT THIS WAR, but I think you are wrong about us. If you care, listen for me for a moment.

My brother saw the other day a woman along with her childrens walking through the streets witha white flag, did he shoot at her? nope.
3 years ago a Palestinian snuck through the border. waited for a car to pass by, a car stopped next to him, a pregnet woman along with her three childrens asked him if he needed a lift, he killed all of them at point blank.
What's my point about these two stories? to show us israelis as saints and the palastinans as black hearted monsters? no, because my brother to watched a few israelis punks who threw stones at palastinan and was ordered not to help him, and there's a palastinan I knoew whose little brother was shot by israeli soldiers and insted of trying to avange him, he started to wander around the country talking to both palastinans and israelis about peace.
My point is that there is no good side or bad side anymore, 20 years ago I would agree with you wholeheartly but it's not the case today. It's more in the shades of grey,

You say we are terroist, why? because we killed more people? because we have a bigger stick then theirs? guess what man this is a WAR, people die in wars civiliens too and when one side is picking a fight with a stronger side this what happnes. this isn't terroisem, this is war.
Hammas wanted this war to happen, for years they tunted the us to renter the Gaza strip so they can "Teach us a lesson" Hammas knows it can't fight us and win, what they want is to us is to enter the Strip kill some civliens which in turn will make the world force us to sign a ceace fire treaty which in turn will make the Hammas stronger then before. Hell they did it 3 times allredy, Taunting us to attack, we attack (yay ), we retret, The Hammas gets stronger as the Palestinians are pissed off and want revenge.
If we are terrorists, then why did we stopped the fighting to give the Palestinians Tons of food, medicne, and clothes? Why did we warned the Palestinians to evecuate from their homes because we are about to bomb, why did we warned the 3th man in Hammas that we are about to bomb his home? the same man you mentioned that died along with his family?
Why the IDF did all of this? not because the IDF gives a damn about the Palestinians, becuse they knew the sec they will blow a house with an entire family in it the whole world will shout at us "Terrorists" and them demned they will retreat. which will happen.
Why do the Palestinians don't run away? because hammas dosn't let them, tell me this, what my brother can do when the guy who is shooting at him is hiding behind a kid and his mother? they don't need living Palestinians, the need Martyrs and victims which they could show around the world.

This isn't from any newspaper, channel, blog or any other thing, this is from my brother who serves now in Gaza, whom you prolly see as one of these terrorists, but I prey he will return safe.

I don't know what drives you about these claims Yoshi, but understand this, this isn't isn't your normal Rebal alliance VS evil empire, this thing isn't as black and white as you see it is. Both sides are being manipulated by extremists organzations who would like nothing more then to see the side wiped out, These are the terrorists.

Dormin your views are the most ownage!! I oughta nominate you for the Nobel Peace prize LOL and also, you're a lot easier to understand than Nate. sorry, Nate (next time, try keeping it simple Nate. )

[Nate River]

Dormin your views are the most ownage!! I oughta nominate you for the Nobel Peace prize LOL and also, you're a lot easier to understand than Nate. sorry, Nate (next time, try keeping it simple Nate. )

You're kidding, right? I had two posts consisting of five paragraphs comparing Hamas and Hezbollah and asking you want would be considered a proportional response. I've reread the posts, I don't know how I could have been anymore clear.

[Codus N]

I know, sorry if I offended you but, sometimes you talk more like a politician than an ordinary guy which is sometimes kinda hard to follow. (which is why I wasn't paying attention to your posts.) TRULY Sorry for that

Edited by Newkerz, 09 January 2009 - 02:04 PM.

[Nate River]

I'm not offended or angry (sorry if I gave that impression), just bewildered. It sounded pretty straighfoward to me.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

LOOOOOOOOOONG (Or of course you can just read what True wrote, couldn't have said it better )


Yoshi you are so right in one area but in the other... allow me to disagree.

Let's take it from the ending, I 100% agree with you, we would not solve a thing by trying to remove a party which was selected by the palastinan people. It will serve only to create more hatred and bitternes from the Palestinians and thus, will matter nothing. truly agree with

I wouldn't argue with you about the death toll, you are right of course there are alot more Palestinian casulties then israeli ones, their suffring is 100% more then ours.

But Us being the Terrorist? hrmm


One thing I ask you, what do you know about what's really hapning in Gaza strip? Newspapers? internet? blogs? my brother serves right now in Gaza. I live in israel, I vote Maraz ( The Israeli most extreme left party) In my life I talked with Israelis, palastinan, everyone, most people who hears my views considers me a traitor for my views. I DONT SUPPORT THIS WAR, but I think you are wrong about us. If you care, listen for me for a moment.

Newspaper, Blogs, Internet, and News Cast. I don't listen to anyone's opinions, but I listen to what is happening. I formed my own opinion on my own. [Not yelling, just saying xD]

1(You say we are terroist, why? because we killed more people? because we have a bigger stick then theirs? guess what man this is a WAR, people die in wars civiliens too and when one side is picking a fight with a stronger side this what happnes. this isn't terroisem, this is war.
Hammas wanted this war to happen, for years they tunted the us to renter the Gaza strip so they can "Teach us a lesson" Hammas knows it can't fight us and win, what they want is to us is to enter the Strip kill some civliens which in turn will make the world force us to sign a ceace fire treaty which in turn will make the Hammas stronger then before. Hell they did it 3 times allredy, Taunting us to attack, we attack (yay ), we retret, The Hammas gets stronger as the Palestinians are pissed off and want revenge.
If we are terrorists, then why did we stopped the fighting to give the Palestinians Tons of food, medicne, and clothes? Why did we warned the Palestinians to evecuate from their homes because we are about to bomb, why did we warned the 3th man in Hammas that we are about to bomb his home? the same man you mentioned that died along with his family?)
2(Why the IDF did all of this? not because the IDF gives a damn about the Palestinians, becuse they knew the sec they will blow a house with an entire family in it the whole world will shout at us "Terrorists" and them demned they will retreat. which will happen.
Why do the Palestinians don't run away? because hammas dosn't let them, tell me this, what my brother can do when the guy who is shooting at him is hiding behind a kid and his mother? they don't need living Palestinians, the need Martyrs and victims which they could show around the world.)

Well, not all of Israel are terrorists. Individual actions in power force terrorism on Palestine. Let me go down on this whole quote in section:

1) I guess that justifies the Holocaust then. It was war! What could the Nazi's possibly do?

That is the most sickening thing I have ever heard of. Just war? Just WAR? This 'war' was started by ISRAEL, when they cut down the agreed armistace supplies to a mere 20% for Palestine, and even then, the border stayed up, and no one was allowed to leave. A tunnel was bombed by Israel that was transporting supplies such as food and medical assistance to Gaza, that is why Hamas restarted rockets! Not because they are 'Hamas', but because they were DEFENDING themselves! Palestine was starving to death, with only 20% of about 500 (or so) trucks coming in to help the Palestinians. Then, their supplies are bombed. They had no choice, they were forced, just like a dog-match, except they're a wounded box-hound and they're facing the Rambo of the dogs.

2) Why don't they run away? One, Hamas was elected legally, and won the land from a Rebellion that their opposition started, fairly. Palestinians can't run because of himuliation check-points, border fences, and because they'll be torn by bombing fire. Hamas is the only thing that is keeping Israel at bay to protect the Palestinians, and as long as Israel continues to act as an aggressor and a suppressor, then by George Carlin, I will defend Palestine.

[Dormin]

What the holocoust has to do with anything? it was completly seprated from the war and had nothing to do with it , the extermnation of these people served nothing for the Nazis expet to fulfil their sick ideology.

About who started it, yeah, we did those things you say, Why we did it? from your words it seems we just want to extermanite the palastinans and rule Gaza has kings, now get this Yoshi because from all the things there is one you should really understand.

ISRAEL DOSN'T WANT GAZA


And when I mean israel I mean every single woman and child, no one want this piece of land, no one want's gaza. what we want is to get the hell out of there as fast as possible and never look back.

Why Israel blockaded Gaza? why most of the israelis support the blockade? as I said before, because most of the israelis are AFRAID, Every time we open up the border, we get a suicide bombing, kidnepping or shooting in the middle of tel aviv. as I said before, fear is the main motivation of the general populace to support action such as these. Palastine is a crumbling state where Choas are rempnent, asking the palestinians wont do a thing, so the israelis just prefer the easy way.

About tunnels, once again I will ask you, how do you know that what they pass through these tunnels are supplies? really? from the blogs and newspaper you read? IDF intelegence showed hundreds of tunnles (around the 300) the hammas has that trensports what? weapons weapons and weapons. ofc you can just say it's all propoganda of the IDF to make an excuse to go back in, because we would really want to go back in there

About what you say that hammas just Defends the palastinan people, if so, then why they shoot at civilien targets instead of miltery ones? (for 8 years by the way) dammit, if they once in their life time would fight aginst the army insted of unarmed civiliens I would be right there with you calling them freedom fighters.

You know what insted of just saying once again why I believe The Hamas arent the freedom fighters you believe they are I will just let their charter speak for itself

http://www.palestine...ts/charter.html

If you bothred to read it I will just point out this, Hamas dosn't want peace with us, Hamas dosn't recognize us, and I can't beagin to tell you how many times we get a massge from the Hamas that states over and over again to us they will destroy us.

If the Hamas truly wanted what was best for the palastinans they will just do this guy said:

"We must not face violence with violence, but face violence with passive aggressiveness."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

Oh wait sorry that's only for us the israelis.

About why the palastinans don't run away?
Really I think you can guss what I will say here ( Hamas uses civs as human shields, that kind of thing) what I don't understand why are you detremeimend this isn't true? they said themselves they will let all of gaza burn before they will admit they lost. I think you allredy knows about the creative ways they can use the Word "šahīd" for their struggle and My bro tells me the Hammas soldiers just took down their uniforms and are just hiding along with the civs, how the hell do they protect them?


Frankly man, you are not in Gaza you get your information from weblogs and newspaper, and unless you are in contact with some palastinan dude who is just there as well over the internetz, you can't be sure your info is 100% true.
Then why are you so ceartin we are the bad guys here? beacuse we killed more then them? what about the israeli whom are killed iun the conflict? is their blood worth less in your eyes because they don't die as much then the palastinans?