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Something Sakura should have asked herself.


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#1 DrK

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:26 AM

So I wrote a story that takes place after chapter 699. In the story, I had Sakura answer a question that for whatever reason she never asked herself in canon. This question is one that Sakura, since she was portrayed as being very intelligent, would have asked herself at some point. The answer she would have come up with is up to you to guess.

 

The question in the manga was always "How do I feel about Sasuke?" with the occasional "How do I feel about Naruto?"
 
It was never "Are these feelings that I have for Sasuke even worth exploring?"
 
We will discuss why it would have been a good idea for her to ask herself this question based on established facts from the manga. I will try to avoid talking about what existed between her and Naruto because it is outside the scope of this question. Though the existence of Naruto makes this situation much worse. If she liked Naruto, and she clearly did, then pursuing these feelings becomes even more unreasonable and ridiculous.
 

Established canon fact #1: Sakura loves Sasuke.
 

What does this mean?

 

Well, she's physically attracted to Sasuke, so she wants to do those kinds of things with him. She wants Sasuke to view her as an important person. She wants to help Sasuke with the problems that are hurting him. She wants to talk/hang out with Sasuke and be a confidant of his. Ironically she didn't really manage to do any of these even at the end, but I digress. She can do most of these things without being in a relationship with Sasuke. The smart character that Sakura was depicted as would realize this fact and not do it because it would be poisonous to her life. She's depicted as an attractive female. Other characters in the story support this view, Naruto and Lee. She can have anyone she wants. Sasuke isn't the only attractive man. Honestly, he looks like a freak now with the two different eyes. It isn't sexy at all. He looks like Madara except without matching eyes. Was Madara sexy? Well, yes. Of course he was. But this fact wasn't established by other characters in the story. Moving on.
 

How could Sakura resist the need to be with Sasuke given the fact that she loves him?

 

You can say that if you love someone, it's natural to want to be with them. But Sakura was depicted as a strong person who is very willful. She should put her own wellbeing first, regardless of who she ends up with. Maybe if she wasn't depicted as being that way it would have been more believable, but being in love with someone doesn't make you their slave. That's ridiculous. If they hurt you, you will get pissed off. If they hurt you repeatedly and then threaten to take everything you care about away from you, you will get pissed off and want to DESTROY them. If they actually try to take or destroy things or people you care about, YOU WILL DESTROY THEM. OR AT LEAST TRY TO. You will not keep falling on your knees and begging them to stop forever. The point here is that being in love with someone does not negate negative emotions that you feel towards that person. Love does not make you oblivious to physical pain or the eradication of things that are vitally important to your livelihood and happiness. This becomes extremely relevant.

 

It's not how human nature is. A human wants to survive and thrive. You can cite domestic abuse but that requires many pieces to be in place, none of which were there for Sakura. She just thought she loved a boy who she hadn't even seen in three years. One who was at best apathetic to her existence and at worst actively intolerant of it. Her life was completely independent of Sasuke and in fact she didn't even see him most of the time. Ridiculous garbage.

 
Established canon fact #2: Sakura ended up with Sasuke.

 
Why is this bad?

 

It's just another failure of a portrayal of a female character in today's media. There are so many characters like this. Where their entire story is based around getting with a man, and they end up with that man and that's seen as a victory. It's a failure of a character arc. Antis always say "Naruto would have put her in the kitchen!", and well, he probably would have, considering how highly Kishimoto thinks of women. But the thing is, if she had ended up with Naruto, her story would not have been about getting with a man. It would have been about growing up and realizing that what you want is not necessarily going to be what makes you happy. But no, she had to end up with Sasuke. Which is bad for the above reason, but what's worse is it plays out in the worst, most pathetic and ridiculous way possible.
 

Why do I say it doesn't play out well?

 

It doesn't matter how strong her character becomes in terms of ninja abilities. If her story arc started off with her wanting to get with a man, which it did, and it ended up with her being with that man, which it did, again, it's not a victory just because he was redeemed. It's a failure and it makes her look weak. It looks so weak for a character's existence in a story to revolve around someone who doesn't care about them. Her existence should not have revolved around the emo avenger to begin with. Ending up with him is just a complete failure. Especially the way it was handled. If she had always been an important person to Sasuke but he still hurt her, it would be controversial and bad but it wouldn't be ridiculous like this is.
 
As it is, the man was a jerk to her. Sasuke either treated her harshly or ignored her. Sakura declares her love and he knocks her out harmlessly. This is fine so far. Sasuke leaves the village. 3 years later Sakura meets up with him and tries to punch him unsuccessfully. Later she encounters him in the snow and tries to stab him unsuccessfully. She did this either to protect Naruto or out of love for Sasuke, as nonsensical as that is, or a combination of these; it doesn't really matter.
 
Then Sasuke tries to kill her. This is the point of no return for the two of them, because he tried to end her life. Any normal person would find it extremely difficult to get close to Sasuke after this. Because doing so would enable Sasuke to kill them very easily. Doing so would display a lack of self-preservation which is unnatural. It would mean she cares more about the prospect of being romantically involved with Sasuke than she cares about her own life or the people that care about her. For instance, her parents. If someone is willing to kill you, that can never be erased. If she still wants to be with Sasuke, that would mean Sakura has a flagrant disregard for the feelings of those close to her. This is disgusting and destroys the image of Sakura as compassionate. It introduces the extremely likely scenario that she deceived everyone who wasn't already aware of what had taken place between her and Sasuke, because there is no way they would ever have approved of it, which is horrible for her character as well.

 

No, it doesn't matter that she tried to kill him first. I'll talk more about this later.
 
After he tries to kill her, she's saved by Naruto. Then there's the war. He belittles and ignores her during the war, later letting her fall towards a pit of lava. This is not Sasuke being a tsundere. This is Sasuke saying "Sakura's life means nothing to me." He was not incapable of saving her; he simply chose not to, likely because it was a minor risk. And this is the best possible interpretation. She is shown obviously suffering over the constant reminders that Sasuke doesn't value her at all. Then she declares her love for the second time. His response to this is to belittle her again and put her in an illusion that simulates him killing her by thrusting his hand into her chest and destroying her heart. Basically, he used genjutsu to torture her, causing her to believe that he had killed her and likely inflicting a great deal of pain. It ultimately has the effect of rendering her unconscious.

 
This would be extremely traumatic for a young girl. Imagine yourself in her shoes. You desperately want to convince Sasuke to stop hurting everyone so you try to stop him in the only way you can, by saying you love him. His response is to mock you. Before you can properly process this, he suddenly flashes in front of you and impales you on his arm. You're in a lot of pain. You realize that this is almost certainly a mortal wound, so now you're going to die. How would this make you feel? Now you won't even get to see what happens. Will Naruto be able to stop Sasuke? Or will Sasuke kill Naruto along with everyone else you care about? You can't help them anymore. You're powerless now. Sasuke just took your greatest desire away from you. She wanted nothing more than to help Naruto, see him achieve his dream, and bring Sasuke back to Konoha. But now she can't do those things because Sasuke just killed her. None of her dreams and desires will ever come to fruition now. This would be infuriating, terrifying, and heartbreaking for Sakura.

 

Sure, she would be relieved when she woke up and realized she wasn't dead. But this would not translate into gratitude towards Sasuke. It would translate to, at best, being terrified of him and wanting him to stay far away from her so that he can never have the opportunity to do that to her again. And probably desiring the destruction or sealing of his eye techniques so he can't do it to ANYONE ever again. What would she be feeling when she wakes up? She would feel useless because Sasuke took her out so easily. She'd feel very guilty that she couldn't help Naruto at all, and scared for his safety now that he's probably fighting Sasuke. And she would be terrified of and likely deeply resentful towards Sasuke as I mentioned already. This action by Sasuke was incredibly cruel and would have the effect of terrorizing Sakura to such an extent that she would never be able to forget it for the rest of her life. It's a waking nightmare. She would probably ask a Yamanaka to delete the memory so that she didn't have to keep seeing it whenever she closed her eyes. 

 
Anyway, she wakes up and doesn't feel any of these things, somehow. She goes and heals Naruto AND Sasuke. She heals Sasuke without being prompted to do so by Naruto or even Sasuke himself. Ridiculous. After what just took place, this is so god damn ridiculous. If she was a real person, it would be so hard for her to even approach him, even in the greatly weakened state that Sasuke was in. It would be so hard to even LOOK at him. The only reason she wouldn't walk away would be because she needed to help Naruto. But no, she happily stabilizes his wounds without even bothering to ask "So, is he done killing everyone?" Apparently, this love that she feels obliterates her personality, her feelings, and her pride as a member of the human race.

 

A much better ending would be her refusing to heal Sasuke at first, because of the extremely strong emotions that I established that a normal person would be feeling. Naruto sees that she isn't healing Sasuke and asks her to. Then Naruto becomes very distraught when she refuses. He doesn't want to lose his friend who he worked so hard to save. He starts begging her to heal Sasuke. Sakura sees the pain and desperation in his face and realizes that she's starting to hurt, too. Why? Because she can't stand to see him like this. Because the one she loves is actually Naruto. She can't bear to put him through the pain of watching his best friend die. She wants to save Naruto from that pain and that's the ONLY reason she heals Sasuke. This would be heartfelt on the part of Sakura and very dramatic. It would make her finally be important in the Team 7 equation; events would finally center around her. Instead, Kishimoto deprives her of agency. She's just a plot device so that the important characters can get healed. A walking plot device that has very little in common with a thinking, feeling human being. We feel nothing about Sakura from this other than that she would obviously forgive Sasuke for anything as long as she's still alive to do it. How is anyone supposed to relate to this character anymore?
 
Sasuke then says he's sorry. He does not offer any specific apology for traumatizing her for life, for instance. Or for the attempted murder. Or the fact that he was willing to let her be incinerated in a field of lava because he saw no tactical value in her remaining alive. She says "You better be", despite the fact that in the event of him not being sorry, she wouldn't do a damn thing about it. Then she asks to travel with him. He declines this request and treats her as his brother used to treat him. i.e. as someone inferior who he doesn't have time for, belittling her yet again. Naturally, she is profoundly flattered by this. Some years later, she marries him and either adopts or gives birth to his child, spending the rest of her life waiting in this man's home like some Victorian woman of the house archetype, in complete opposition to her character's personality as established in the last 600 chapters or so. She is depicted wearing the dumbass fan symbol on her back for whatever reason, even though Sasuke doesn't wear it anymore. Are we meant to believe she is just unbelievably proud to now be a part of this ninja clan, when a member of said clan that she is now married to inflicted an unspeakable amount of pain on her, more than anyone else in her life by a huge margin? She wants to show off how much she loves this whole situation in case she encounters someone who didn't know that already? Again, how are we meant to take this new Sakura seriously or relate to her in any way?

 

She later destroys the house that she is the woman of in response to her possibly adopted daughter offering entirely valid criticism of her relationship with Sasuke. This shows a lack of conviction in parenting in regards to not scaring the kitten out of her daughter. She loves Sasuke so much that she is willing to terrify her daughter on account of him. How admirable.
 
This is completely ridiculous. All of this is so absurd that it's hard to put into words so I won't try anymore. I did my best. Moving on.

 
Why was it unacceptable that he tried to kill Sakura given that she was an enemy at the time?

 

I submit to you the example of the character "Uzumaki Naruto". You might remember him from the manga. Did you notice that he killed very few characters? How did he manage that despite winning many fights? Because he didn't try to kill them after they were incapacitated and he had already won. Those were the exact circumstances under which Sasuke tried to kill Sakura. The fact that she tried to kill him first does not diminish the significance of his murder attempt no matter how much it sounds like it does for this reason. She was a former teammate and he should have respected her right to live regardless of her intentions. Intentions are irrelevant when someone is completely at your mercy and killing them is as easy as breathing. I don't need to say anything else on this point.

 

Why else shouldn't she have been with Sasuke?

 

It was so distasteful how her getting with Sasuke was seen as a reward for her. If anything it was a reward for Sasuke. She's the main heroine. She was clearly at one point intended to be the "best girl". Fans hating her doesn't change that. Did Sasuke deserve the best girl? No. Even if you discount how he personally treated her the answer would still be no. He probably doesn't even deserve the worst girl, which most fans will tell you is Sakura. So in any case, he doesn't deserve Sakura. So it's a reward for Sasuke and a massive punishment for Sakura. Sisyphus doesn't have kitten on Sakura. Neither does Tantalus or any of those other poor bastards from Greek mythology. Itachi would bow down to Kishimoto and say "Nice work. I usually only torture people for 72 hours. What the hell did that poor girl do to you?"

 
Why else is this bad?

 

Because she didn't change and ended up being the same, or rather an even more flawed person than she was when she started out. Part 1 Sakura showed resistance to Sasuke when he did something so minor as to be afraid of his own death at the hands of a legendary ninja. Part 2 Sakura showed no resistance when he tried to kill her, tried to kill her friends, and basically tried to kill or subjugate everyone. The only resistance she offers is by availing him of the comfort of her love for him, which he has no interest in at all. This is pathetic.

 

What is doubly pathetic is the fact that she ended up marrying him just because he stopped trying to kill everyone. A simple cessation of murdering is not sufficient to make amends for the wrongs he inflicted on her. It doesn't matter if he was redeemed. Being redeemed does not erase what he did to her or anyone else. And she would have no way of knowing if he was truly redeemed or just pretending to be. She would also have no way of knowing that he wouldn't become evil again. She's just going to trust him. Unbelievable. But every other character also does the same thing so this point is not as bad as it could be.
 
But it gets worse, because Sasuke isn't in the village by the end. So Sakura is raising a child that either is or is not hers for a man that still doesn't care about her, so she hasn't changed much in her interactions with him. He's just not going to try to kill her anymore. This is not appealing at all for fans of Sakura. And it actually doesn't matter if Sarada is her child or not.
 

Why doesn't it matter who Sarada's mother is?

 

Because her relationship with Sasuke is a joke as it is. The maternity issue would matter if they had a good relationship that could be impacted by this controversy. Sasuke is never around so they don't have that. The possibility of her not being his child's mother doesn't affect her closeness to Sasuke, because Sasuke doesn't care about her. So if she's not her real daughter that just makes it a bigger joke, but she's a laughing stock either way. You could argue that it would affect Sarada's opinion. OK, it could. Actually, it almost certainly would. However it doesn't matter because her relationship with Sasuke leaves no hope of redemption. Sarada could love her as much as Naruto used to or even more and Sakura is still being portrayed as pathetic.

 
Was Kishimoto trying to portray Sakura as having a serious mental illness?

 

Few other interpretations make any sense at all. She started off as a regular fangirl. She was a bit shy around him, liked him, respected his space. She had her own opinions and views. She tried to ingratiate herself to him, but really wasn't good at it at all. It actually could be funny at times. It was fine. Then in Part 2, she was willing to fight Sasuke for a time, but then her spine disappeared and she became a doormat. This is when everything takes a dark, disgusting turn as you know already. Then in the post 700 stuff, she acts like a pathetic, lobotomized sycophant in front of Sasuke. She presents none of the many grievances that she so very clearly has. This loyalty of hers is rewarded with absolutely nothing from his end. 

 

So Part 1 was tolerable but occasionally pathetic, Part 2 started off good and then became SUPER pathetic, and then part 3 is even worse. This is a depiction of a mental disorder that has progressed. The idea of marrying a man who tried to kill you, either giving birth to or adopting his child, and raising it by yourself because you KNOW he will never be around, is entirely impossible to relate to. To a rational human being, it's completely alien. Maybe if he did the murder attempts and the leaving AFTER you were already in a relationship, not before. It just makes her character into a joke and it's... you guessed it, pathetic. It's crazy that Kishimoto did this and even crazier that some people actually support it. But guess what, it was her only option other than being with Naruto. She wasn't with Naruto, so her life had to be made miserable with Sasuke.

 
So why did Kishimoto have to make her miserable after putting Naruto with Hinata?

 

It's because Naruto is still his self insert. He's willing to let him lose Sakura, but he's not going to give up the high ground of "Naruto and Sakura were meant to be". He could have written a happy, loving relationship for Sakura, with Sasuke (He doesn't care enough anymore for OOC to matter) or someone else. But if he did that, then Naruto truly lost. Sakura would be happy without him. If that happened, then she really didn't need to be with Naruto to be happy. This way, Sakura is miserable so people can say "Wow, she was so stupid. She should have been with Naruto. Haha!" So Naruto can still win, because Sakura acted completely insane and unrealistic in regards to Sasuke and ruined her life, while Naruto moved on. Everyone wins! Except for Sakura.

 

Why was Kishimoto willing to do that to Sakura?

 

I don't know. If Kishi wanted her to be with Sasuke, why did he make him torture her and try to kill her? That would be a good question to ask him.


Edited by DrK, 09 November 2017 - 09:52 AM.


#2 winter-serenade

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:05 AM

This is very well written, and I’m surprised it hasn’t gotten much attention. I do think Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke does make her appear weak to some degree. The most disturbing thing about her feelings is how Kishimoto described them himself, like an addiction or something?

#3 Yyubie

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:32 AM

Kishi kept Sakura in the dark , she didn't know it was Naruto on bench , she didn't know it was Naruto that saved her from Gaara , and few more. At first i though this will become a bubble that getting bigger and bigger and eventually explode , but no .... the bubble turn out will never ever going to explode. There is a word there , "SAKURA MUST NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH SACRIFICE NARUTO MAKE FOR HER".


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#4 My Living Curse

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:27 AM

This is very well written, and I’m surprised it hasn’t gotten much attention. I do think Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke does make her appear weak to some degree. The most disturbing thing about her feelings is how Kishimoto described them himself, like an addiction or something?

 

Yep. More than once actually.

 

Here's 2006: Shonen Jump: Which of your three students would make the best ninja instructor?

Kishimoto: I think it would be Sakura. She has flaws in her personality, like stalking Sasuke. But Sakura is the closest to being normal. Naruto is stupid, and Sasuke is not a teacher-type. He keeps to himself.

 

Here's the one from (2015 I believe?):

Interviewer: “Who is your favourite character in Naruto?”

>Taniguchi: “It’s Hinata.”

>Kishimoto: “Eh, you like big-breasted girls?” (laugh)

>Taniguchi: “It’s not that.” (laugh) “I like the fact that at the beginning she was a weakling, but due to Naruto’s influence she steadily became strong.”

>Kishimoto: “That’s because Hinata doesn’t stand at the main character’s side like normal heroines*… she’s the type that watches him from the shadows.

>Interviewer: “I thought the heroine was Sakura?”

>Kishimoto: “That’s right. But Sakura is addicted to Sasuke.” (laugh) “The reason why Hinata came to like Naruto is clear, but I’ve deliberately avoided writing down the reason why Sakura came to like Sasuke.” (laugh) “That’s because somehow, I had the feeling that it would conversely end up sounding contrived.


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#5 Namaenash

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:05 PM

Kishi kept Sakura in the dark , she didn't know it was Naruto on bench , she didn't know it was Naruto that saved her from Gaara , and few more. At first i though this will become a bubble that getting bigger and bigger and eventually explode , but no .... the bubble turn out will never ever going to explode. There is a word there , "SAKURA MUST NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH SACRIFICE NARUTO MAKE FOR HER".

 

It also works the other way around. Naruto never knew that Sakura supported him in Chuunin Exam, he never knew she would do anything to make his dream of becoming hokage comes true, he never knew it was her that did the CPR and gave it all to keep him alive during the War Arc. And of course many others events that didn't get any conclusion.


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#6 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:24 PM

 

It also works the other way around. Naruto never knew that Sakura supported him in Chuunin Exam, he never knew she would do anything to make his dream of becoming hokage comes true, he never knew it was her that did the CPR and gave it all to keep him alive during the War Arc. And of course many others events that didn't get any conclusion.

 

And it was obvious all intentionally by Kishi to make sure the ending was justified even if it is still a huge load of crap XP



#7 Phantom_999

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:21 AM

So I wrote a story that takes place after chapter 699. In the story, I had Sakura answer a question that for whatever reason she never asked herself in canon. This question is one that Sakura, since she was portrayed as being very intelligent, would have asked herself at some point. The answer she would have come up with is up to you to guess.

 

The question in the manga was always "How do I feel about Sasuke?" with the occasional "How do I feel about Naruto?"
 
It was never "Are these feelings that I have for Sasuke even worth exploring?"
 
We will discuss why it would have been a good idea for her to ask herself this question based on established facts from the manga. I will try to avoid talking about what existed between her and Naruto because it is outside the scope of this question. Though the existence of Naruto makes this situation much worse. If she liked Naruto, and she clearly did, then pursuing these feelings becomes even more unreasonable and ridiculous.
 

Established canon fact #1: Sakura loves Sasuke.
 

What does this mean?

 

Well, she's physically attracted to Sasuke, so she wants to do those kinds of things with him. She wants Sasuke to view her as an important person. She wants to help Sasuke with the problems that are hurting him. She wants to talk/hang out with Sasuke and be a confidant of his. Ironically she didn't really manage to do any of these even at the end, but I digress. She can do most of these things without being in a relationship with Sasuke. The smart character that Sakura was depicted as would realize this fact and not do it because it would be poisonous to her life. She's depicted as an attractive female. Other characters in the story support this view, Naruto and Lee. She can have anyone she wants. Sasuke isn't the only attractive man. Honestly, he looks like a freak now with the two different eyes. It isn't sexy at all. He looks like Madara except without matching eyes. Was Madara sexy? Well, yes. Of course he was. But this fact wasn't established by other characters in the story. Moving on.
 

How could Sakura resist the need to be with Sasuke given the fact that she loves him?

 

You can say that if you love someone, it's natural to want to be with them. But Sakura was depicted as a strong person who is very willful. She should put her own wellbeing first, regardless of who she ends up with. Maybe if she wasn't depicted as being that way it would have been more believable, but being in love with someone doesn't make you their slave. That's ridiculous. If they hurt you, you will get pissed off. If they hurt you repeatedly and then threaten to take everything you care about away from you, you will get pissed off and want to DESTROY them. If they actually try to take or destroy things or people you care about, YOU WILL DESTROY THEM. OR AT LEAST TRY TO. You will not keep falling on your knees and begging them to stop forever. The point here is that being in love with someone does not negate negative emotions that you feel towards that person. Love does not make you oblivious to physical pain or the eradication of things that are vitally important to your livelihood and happiness. This becomes extremely relevant.

 

It's not how human nature is. A human wants to survive and thrive. You can cite domestic abuse but that requires many pieces to be in place, none of which were there for Sakura. She just thought she loved a boy who she hadn't even seen in three years. One who was at best apathetic to her existence and at worst actively intolerant of it. Her life was completely independent of Sasuke and in fact she didn't even see him most of the time. Ridiculous garbage.

 
Established canon fact #2: Sakura ended up with Sasuke.

 
Why is this bad?

 

It's just another failure of a portrayal of a female character in today's media. There are so many characters like this. Where their entire story is based around getting with a man, and they end up with that man and that's seen as a victory. It's a failure of a character arc. Antis always say "Naruto would have put her in the kitchen!", and well, he probably would have, considering how highly Kishimoto thinks of women. But the thing is, if she had ended up with Naruto, her story would not have been about getting with a man. It would have been about growing up and realizing that what you want is not necessarily going to be what makes you happy. But no, she had to end up with Sasuke. Which is bad for the above reason, but what's worse is it plays out in the worst, most pathetic and ridiculous way possible.
 

Why do I say it doesn't play out well?

 

It doesn't matter how strong her character becomes in terms of ninja abilities. If her story arc started off with her wanting to get with a man, which it did, and it ended up with her being with that man, which it did, again, it's not a victory just because he was redeemed. It's a failure and it makes her look weak. It looks so weak for a character's existence in a story to revolve around someone who doesn't care about them. Her existence should not have revolved around the emo avenger to begin with. Ending up with him is just a complete failure. Especially the way it was handled. If she had always been an important person to Sasuke but he still hurt her, it would be controversial and bad but it wouldn't be ridiculous like this is.
 
As it is, the man was a jerk to her. Sasuke either treated her harshly or ignored her. Sakura declares her love and he knocks her out harmlessly. This is fine so far. Sasuke leaves the village. 3 years later Sakura meets up with him and tries to punch him unsuccessfully. Later she encounters him in the snow and tries to stab him unsuccessfully. She did this either to protect Naruto or out of love for Sasuke, as nonsensical as that is, or a combination of these; it doesn't really matter.
 
Then Sasuke tries to kill her. This is the point of no return for the two of them, because he tried to end her life. Any normal person would find it extremely difficult to get close to Sasuke after this. Because doing so would enable Sasuke to kill them very easily. Doing so would display a lack of self-preservation which is unnatural. It would mean she cares more about the prospect of being romantically involved with Sasuke than she cares about her own life or the people that care about her. For instance, her parents. If someone is willing to kill you, that can never be erased. If she still wants to be with Sasuke, that would mean Sakura has a flagrant disregard for the feelings of those close to her. This is disgusting and destroys the image of Sakura as compassionate. It introduces the extremely likely scenario that she deceived everyone who wasn't already aware of what had taken place between her and Sasuke, because there is no way they would ever have approved of it, which is horrible for her character as well.

 

No, it doesn't matter that she tried to kill him first. I'll talk more about this later.
 
After he tries to kill her, she's saved by Naruto. Then there's the war. He belittles and ignores her during the war, later letting her fall towards a pit of lava. This is not Sasuke being a tsundere. This is Sasuke saying "Sakura's life means nothing to me." He was not incapable of saving her; he simply chose not to, likely because it was a minor risk. And this is the best possible interpretation. She is shown obviously suffering over the constant reminders that Sasuke doesn't value her at all. Then she declares her love for the second time. His response to this is to belittle her again and put her in an illusion that simulates him killing her by thrusting his hand into her chest and destroying her heart. Basically, he used genjutsu to torture her, causing her to believe that he had killed her and likely inflicting a great deal of pain. It ultimately has the effect of rendering her unconscious.

 
This would be extremely traumatic for a young girl. Imagine yourself in her shoes. You desperately want to convince Sasuke to stop hurting everyone so you try to stop him in the only way you can, by saying you love him. His response is to mock you. Before you can properly process this, he suddenly flashes in front of you and impales you on his arm. You're in a lot of pain. You realize that this is almost certainly a mortal wound, so now you're going to die. How would this make you feel? Now you won't even get to see what happens. Will Naruto be able to stop Sasuke? Or will Sasuke kill Naruto along with everyone else you care about? You can't help them anymore. You're powerless now. Sasuke just took your greatest desire away from you. She wanted nothing more than to help Naruto, see him achieve his dream, and bring Sasuke back to Konoha. But now she can't do those things because Sasuke just killed her. None of her dreams and desires will ever come to fruition now. This would be infuriating, terrifying, and heartbreaking for Sakura.

 

Sure, she would be relieved when she woke up and realized she wasn't dead. But this would not translate into gratitude towards Sasuke. It would translate to, at best, being terrified of him and wanting him to stay far away from her so that he can never have the opportunity to do that to her again. And probably desiring the destruction or sealing of his eye techniques so he can't do it to ANYONE ever again. What would she be feeling when she wakes up? She would feel useless because Sasuke took her out so easily. She'd feel very guilty that she couldn't help Naruto at all, and scared for his safety now that he's probably fighting Sasuke. And she would be terrified of and likely deeply resentful towards Sasuke as I mentioned already. This action by Sasuke was incredibly cruel and would have the effect of terrorizing Sakura to such an extent that she would never be able to forget it for the rest of her life. It's a waking nightmare. She would probably ask a Yamanaka to delete the memory so that she didn't have to keep seeing it whenever she closed her eyes. 

 
Anyway, she wakes up and doesn't feel any of these things, somehow. She goes and heals Naruto AND Sasuke. She heals Sasuke without being prompted to do so by Naruto or even Sasuke himself. Ridiculous. After what just took place, this is so god damn ridiculous. If she was a real person, it would be so hard for her to even approach him, even in the greatly weakened state that Sasuke was in. It would be so hard to even LOOK at him. The only reason she wouldn't walk away would be because she needed to help Naruto. But no, she happily stabilizes his wounds without even bothering to ask "So, is he done killing everyone?" Apparently, this love that she feels obliterates her personality, her feelings, and her pride as a member of the human race.

 

A much better ending would be her refusing to heal Sasuke at first, because of the extremely strong emotions that I established that a normal person would be feeling. Naruto sees that she isn't healing Sasuke and asks her to. Then Naruto becomes very distraught when she refuses. He doesn't want to lose his friend who he worked so hard to save. He starts begging her to heal Sasuke. Sakura sees the pain and desperation in his face and realizes that she's starting to hurt, too. Why? Because she can't stand to see him like this. Because the one she loves is actually Naruto. She can't bear to put him through the pain of watching his best friend die. She wants to save Naruto from that pain and that's the ONLY reason she heals Sasuke. This would be heartfelt on the part of Sakura and very dramatic. It would make her finally be important in the Team 7 equation; events would finally center around her. Instead, Kishimoto deprives her of agency. She's just a plot device so that the important characters can get healed. A walking plot device that has very little in common with a thinking, feeling human being. We feel nothing about Sakura from this other than that she would obviously forgive Sasuke for anything as long as she's still alive to do it. How is anyone supposed to relate to this character anymore?
 
Sasuke then says he's sorry. He does not offer any specific apology for traumatizing her for life, for instance. Or for the attempted murder. Or the fact that he was willing to let her be incinerated in a field of lava because he saw no tactical value in her remaining alive. She says "You better be", despite the fact that in the event of him not being sorry, she wouldn't do a damn thing about it. Then she asks to travel with him. He declines this request and treats her as his brother used to treat him. i.e. as someone inferior who he doesn't have time for, belittling her yet again. Naturally, she is profoundly flattered by this. Some years later, she marries him and either adopts or gives birth to his child, spending the rest of her life waiting in this man's home like some Victorian woman of the house archetype, in complete opposition to her character's personality as established in the last 600 chapters or so. She is depicted wearing the dumbass fan symbol on her back for whatever reason, even though Sasuke doesn't wear it anymore. Are we meant to believe she is just unbelievably proud to now be a part of this ninja clan, when a member of said clan that she is now married to inflicted an unspeakable amount of pain on her, more than anyone else in her life by a huge margin? She wants to show off how much she loves this whole situation in case she encounters someone who didn't know that already? Again, how are we meant to take this new Sakura seriously or relate to her in any way?

 

She later destroys the house that she is the woman of in response to her possibly adopted daughter offering entirely valid criticism of her relationship with Sasuke. This shows a lack of conviction in parenting in regards to not scaring the kitten out of her daughter. She loves Sasuke so much that she is willing to terrify her daughter on account of him. How admirable.
 
This is completely ridiculous. All of this is so absurd that it's hard to put into words so I won't try anymore. I did my best. Moving on.

 
Why was it unacceptable that he tried to kill Sakura given that she was an enemy at the time?

 

I submit to you the example of the character "Uzumaki Naruto". You might remember him from the manga. Did you notice that he killed very few characters? How did he manage that despite winning many fights? Because he didn't try to kill them after they were incapacitated and he had already won. Those were the exact circumstances under which Sasuke tried to kill Sakura. The fact that she tried to kill him first does not diminish the significance of his murder attempt no matter how much it sounds like it does for this reason. She was a former teammate and he should have respected her right to live regardless of her intentions. Intentions are irrelevant when someone is completely at your mercy and killing them is as easy as breathing. I don't need to say anything else on this point.

 

Why else shouldn't she have been with Sasuke?

 

It was so distasteful how her getting with Sasuke was seen as a reward for her. If anything it was a reward for Sasuke. She's the main heroine. She was clearly at one point intended to be the "best girl". Fans hating her doesn't change that. Did Sasuke deserve the best girl? No. Even if you discount how he personally treated her the answer would still be no. He probably doesn't even deserve the worst girl, which most fans will tell you is Sakura. So in any case, he doesn't deserve Sakura. So it's a reward for Sasuke and a massive punishment for Sakura. Sisyphus doesn't have kitten on Sakura. Neither does Tantalus or any of those other poor bastards from Greek mythology. Itachi would bow down to Kishimoto and say "Nice work. I usually only torture people for 72 hours. What the hell did that poor girl do to you?"

 
Why else is this bad?

 

Because she didn't change and ended up being the same, or rather an even more flawed person than she was when she started out. Part 1 Sakura showed resistance to Sasuke when he did something so minor as to be afraid of his own death at the hands of a legendary ninja. Part 2 Sakura showed no resistance when he tried to kill her, tried to kill her friends, and basically tried to kill or subjugate everyone. The only resistance she offers is by availing him of the comfort of her love for him, which he has no interest in at all. This is pathetic.

 

What is doubly pathetic is the fact that she ended up marrying him just because he stopped trying to kill everyone. A simple cessation of murdering is not sufficient to make amends for the wrongs he inflicted on her. It doesn't matter if he was redeemed. Being redeemed does not erase what he did to her or anyone else. And she would have no way of knowing if he was truly redeemed or just pretending to be. She would also have no way of knowing that he wouldn't become evil again. She's just going to trust him. Unbelievable. But every other character also does the same thing so this point is not as bad as it could be.
 
But it gets worse, because Sasuke isn't in the village by the end. So Sakura is raising a child that either is or is not hers for a man that still doesn't care about her, so she hasn't changed much in her interactions with him. He's just not going to try to kill her anymore. This is not appealing at all for fans of Sakura. And it actually doesn't matter if Sarada is her child or not.
 

Why doesn't it matter who Sarada's mother is?

 

Because her relationship with Sasuke is a joke as it is. The maternity issue would matter if they had a good relationship that could be impacted by this controversy. Sasuke is never around so they don't have that. The possibility of her not being his child's mother doesn't affect her closeness to Sasuke, because Sasuke doesn't care about her. So if she's not her real daughter that just makes it a bigger joke, but she's a laughing stock either way. You could argue that it would affect Sarada's opinion. OK, it could. Actually, it almost certainly would. However it doesn't matter because her relationship with Sasuke leaves no hope of redemption. Sarada could love her as much as Naruto used to or even more and Sakura is still being portrayed as pathetic.

 
Was Kishimoto trying to portray Sakura as having a serious mental illness?

 

Few other interpretations make any sense at all. She started off as a regular fangirl. She was a bit shy around him, liked him, respected his space. She had her own opinions and views. She tried to ingratiate herself to him, but really wasn't good at it at all. It actually could be funny at times. It was fine. Then in Part 2, she was willing to fight Sasuke for a time, but then her spine disappeared and she became a doormat. This is when everything takes a dark, disgusting turn as you know already. Then in the post 700 stuff, she acts like a pathetic, lobotomized sycophant in front of Sasuke. She presents none of the many grievances that she so very clearly has. This loyalty of hers is rewarded with absolutely nothing from his end. 

 

So Part 1 was tolerable but occasionally pathetic, Part 2 started off good and then became SUPER pathetic, and then part 3 is even worse. This is a depiction of a mental disorder that has progressed. The idea of marrying a man who tried to kill you, either giving birth to or adopting his child, and raising it by yourself because you KNOW he will never be around, is entirely impossible to relate to. To a rational human being, it's completely alien. Maybe if he did the murder attempts and the leaving AFTER you were already in a relationship, not before. It just makes her character into a joke and it's... you guessed it, pathetic. It's crazy that Kishimoto did this and even crazier that some people actually support it. But guess what, it was her only option other than being with Naruto. She wasn't with Naruto, so her life had to be made miserable with Sasuke.

 
So why did Kishimoto have to make her miserable after putting Naruto with Hinata?

 

It's because Naruto is still his self insert. He's willing to let him lose Sakura, but he's not going to give up the high ground of "Naruto and Sakura were meant to be". He could have written a happy, loving relationship for Sakura, with Sasuke (He doesn't care enough anymore for OOC to matter) or someone else. But if he did that, then Naruto truly lost. Sakura would be happy without him. If that happened, then she really didn't need to be with Naruto to be happy. This way, Sakura is miserable so people can say "Wow, she was so stupid. She should have been with Naruto. Haha!" So Naruto can still win, because Sakura acted completely insane and unrealistic in regards to Sasuke and ruined her life, while Naruto moved on. Everyone wins! Except for Sakura.

 

Why was Kishimoto willing to do that to Sakura?

 

I don't know. If Kishi wanted her to be with Sasuke, why did he make him torture her and try to kill her? That would be a good question to ask him.

 

Here is the BIGGEST QUESTION. "Did Sasuke-kun ever make me Happy?" Anytime at all? Let me rephrase that. Sakura was happy thinking about Sasuke in Part I and in the one Gaiden flash back, But did he ever seem happy to be around her? Did any of his conversations ever make her feel good or did he ever support her and not think of himself for once? I can' t think of one such occasion, much less compared To Naruto that actually made her feel that way several times throughout the story. It's funny how your "brother figure" can make you feel happy, supported, comforted, light hearted and confident, but your boyfriend/Husband can't. :ermm:  


Edited by Phantom_999, 13 November 2017 - 12:33 AM.

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#8 DrK

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:27 AM

 

Here is the BIGGEST QUESTION. "Did Sasuke-kun ever make me Happy?" anytime at all? let me rephrase that. Sakura was happy thinking about Sasuke in Part I and in the pne Gaiden flash back, But did he ever seem happy to be around her? Did any of his conversations ever make her feel good or did he ever support her and not think of himself for once? I can' t think of one such occasion, much less compared To Naruto that actually made her feel that way several times throughout the story. It's funny how your "brother figure" can make you feel happy, supported, comforted, light hearted and confident but your boyfriend/Husband can't. :ermm:  

This is something I have thought about also... I don't understand why he made Sakura completely incapable of looking at the situation rationally. A comparison to Naruto isn't even necessary. Sasuke isn't compatible with her. The person she turns into around him is someone she would hate when she looks in the mirror. But then again, I don't understand many other things, like why Sasuke wanted to be with Sakura, why didn't Sasuke want to be with Karin, why didn't Naruto confess, why was there a scene of Sakura holding Naruto's heart in her hands if she wasn't the actual owner of Naruto's heart, and so on.

 

If the bench scene is the issue, then ask Sasuke about the bench scene, Sakura...  That should be the first thing you do, even. But I'm sure if you asked Kishimoto about it, he'd be like "What?"

 

But it's not the issue. There's no way it could be. That isn't reasonable. The issue is Sakura is insane. It's the simplest explanation.


Edited by DrK, 13 November 2017 - 01:22 AM.


#9 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:23 AM

This is something I have thought about also... I don't understand why he made Sakura completely incapable of looking at the situation rationally. A comparison to Naruto isn't even necessary. Sasuke isn't compatible with her. The person she turns into around him is someone she would hate when she looks in the mirror. But then again, I don't understand many other things, like why Sasuke wanted to be with Sakura, why didn't Sasuke want to be with Karin, why didn't Naruto confess, why was there a scene of Sakura holding Naruto's heart in her hands if she wasn't the actual owner of Naruto's heart, and so on.

 

If the bench scene is the issue, then ask Sasuke about the bench scene, Sakura...  That should be the first thing you do, even. But I'm sure if you asked Kishimoto about it, he'd be like "What?"

 

But it's not the issue. There's no way it could be. That isn't reasonable. The issue is Sakura is insane. It's the simplest explanation.

At this point, man, she seems almost afraid to ask anything. If you are living in something that you don't want to admit is bad, they live in denial and avoid questions. This is why she got mad at Salad for asking because she KNOWS the relationship is horrible. She KNOWS that Sasuke is a horrible man, but she would rather live in the fantasy she made up rather than the truth. In a way, this is why Pro-enders hates Sakura so much...because they are exactly like her.

It is just like this comic strip I love.

oqdkpz.png

 

She doesn't want to admit it. She doesn't want to believe the reality she is in. Same with pro-enders who won't accept that NH is dysfunational....they don't want to admit that NS was better for Naruto and Sakura in the end. That's why they come up with eveery excuse. Heck, I saw a pro-ender say how "Hinata is so strong that she can beat Sakura up without breaking a sweat" yet, doesn't even want to admit the times when Hinata got her ass beat by a rock or fainted after one attack.

 

They only live in the reality they want to see...not the one that actually exists because they don't want to admit that they made the wrong choice.

It is like someone buying their video game console they want and realizing that it is not as good as the other game consoles...so they sit here and make any excuse, any lie, any reason to convince themselves that they havn't wasted their time or money. People have a hard time admitting when they were wrong and would rather fight against the people that know the truth and only accept people who feed into what they want to hear.

I can imagine this "Sakura" sitting in front of a mirror applying make-up like a crazy person: "I am a pretty girl, Sasuke loves pretty girls. I have to be prettier because Sasuke wants prettier. He can;t see anyone else because I am the prettiest girl." As she is applying layer after layer of lip-stick. Sasuke is right to stay away.

Naruto: "Would it kill you to go home?"
Sasuke: "It might. Sakura is so crazy she might just put her hair in my food because she wants her inside of me."

Watch this scene how it is played for laughs at pee-wee herman. It's this kind of crazy I am talking about.


Naruto talks to Sakura: "Hey, I saw Sasuke talking to some girl named Karin."
Sakura: "Is she prettier than me?" *as she applies very thick make-up*

Heck, I would go so far to say Hinata would be like this too. Maybe even Helga G Pataki crazy....In fact, Hinata would be far worse in my opinion...."it is always the quiet ones"

 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 November 2017 - 03:35 AM.

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#10 DrK

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:48 AM

At this point, man, she seems almost afraid to ask anything. If you are living in something that you don't want to admit is bad, they live in denial and avoid questions. This is why she got mad at Salad for asking because she KNOWS the relationship is horrible. She KNOWS that Sasuke is a horrible man, but she would rather live in the fantasy she made up rather than the truth. In a way, this is why Pro-enders hates Sakura so much...because they are exactly like her.

Yeah... I used to feel bad that Naruto missed out on true love, but now that I look at it realistically, the person Sakura turned into is someone Naruto would never want to be with. Hinata is probably better, honestly... and I never thought I would say that. Hinata would at least stay out of his way.

 

A Sakura who would accept Sasuke after all his abuse isn't the Sakura that Naruto fell in love with. He loved her for her inner strength, her intelligence, and her fiery personality. None of these are on display in the canon SS relationship.


Edited by DrK, 13 November 2017 - 03:54 AM.


#11 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:54 AM

Yeah... I used to feel bad that Naruto missed out on true love, but now that I look at it realistically, the person Sakura turned into is someone Naruto would never want to be with. Hinata is probably better, honestly... and I never thought I would say that. Hinata would at least stay out of his way.
 
A Sakura who would accept Sasuke after all his abuse isn't the Sakura that Naruto fell in love with. He loved her for her inner strength, her intelligence, and her fiery personality. None of these are on display in the canon SS relationship.

I think the inverse could be said about Naruto. The guy Sakura was being alluded to slowly falling in love with vanished a long time ago. All that remains is a drunken and demented Sasuke-obsessed nut job who hides from his wife and children with an equally demented paper work lust as his excuse. Little wonder Sakura never came around to him.

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#12 DrK

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:56 AM

I think the inverse could be said about Naruto. The guy Sakura was being alluded to slowly falling in love with vanished a long time ago. All that remains is a drunken and demented Sasuke-obsessed nut job who hides from his wife and children with an equally demented paper work lust as his excuse. Little wonder Sakura never came around to him.

True. I wonder which one happened first? I just assumed it was Sakura because of chapter 699, but maybe Naruto died before that since he was already turning to Hinata during the war? Sakura didn't actually manage to save the real Naruto... He was braindead for some time before his father put the Kyuubi back in him, and everything good about him died.



#13 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:37 AM

Naruto started veering into Sasuke-obsessed nut job territory during the Tench Bridge arc when he went kyuubi over Orochimaru merely mentioning the dude, so Naruto first then Sakura as of the Land of Iron arc.

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#14 DrK

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:46 AM

Naruto started veering into Sasuke-obsessed nut job territory during the Tench Bridge arc when he went kyuubi over Orochimaru merely mentioning the dude, so Naruto first then Sakura as of the Land of Iron arc.

I wonder if the death of Sasuke could have healed both of them? Or would they be rendered broken, suicidal shells forever? Probably the latter, if you consider that Kishimoto would be the one writing it.

 

Life isn't worth living without Sasuke(-kun.)

 

"good story but it all goes back to honestly to Sakura being a weak dumbass to be in love with someone that's never loved or show any sign of recognition to them and only a weak minded idiot would go through what Sakura did in fact I would to see you have Ino make that rational depiction to Sakura about the whole genjutsu and how that if she wasn't irrevocable in love with a person that neither cared nor ever showed and sign of love"

 

This was from a review I got. This is exactly why people disliked Sakura. How is it that Kishimoto never understood this? He thought people disliked her because she wasn't pretty enough...? Is it even possible to be that dense? It never occurred to him that maybe being mindlessly, spinelessly in love with someone who doesn't care about you has the potential to look bad? Did he think that couldn't possibly be the case because the one she happened to be in love with was Sasuke? God damn it.


Edited by DrK, 13 November 2017 - 05:05 AM.


#15 winter-serenade

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:03 PM

...You guys know it's completely false that Naruto is a drunkard, as ThroughWithLove has been falsely claiming?

 

I'm concerned if you are believing this to be truth. 

 

The one thing that bothers me though? Is anyone judging someone's love as making them weak.

 

I feel like the women in a lot of anime, and sometimes men too, get judged -way- too much in strength by who they love, rather than who they are, and really wish that would stop.

 

Loving someone, even a pathetic person, doesn't make you weak. It makes you human.

 

From what I usually gathered from the fanbase, most don't judge based on WHO Sakura loves, but by how the way she ACTS around Sakura. Sakura ACTS weak when Sasuke is involved. Sakura is judged by how she is AROUND Sasuke. I love Sakura, but my biggest, and probably only problem with her is how she acts around Sasuke.



#16 sushi.

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:04 PM

 

Yep. More than once actually.

 

Here's 2006: Shonen Jump: Which of your three students would make the best ninja instructor?

Kishimoto: I think it would be Sakura. She has flaws in her personality, like stalking Sasuke. But Sakura is the closest to being normal. Naruto is stupid, and Sasuke is not a teacher-type. He keeps to himself.

 

Here's the one from (2015 I believe?):

Interviewer: “Who is your favourite character in Naruto?”

>Taniguchi: “It’s Hinata.”

>Kishimoto: “Eh, you like big-breasted girls?” (laugh)

>Taniguchi: “It’s not that.” (laugh) “I like the fact that at the beginning she was a weakling, but due to Naruto’s influence she steadily became strong.”

>Kishimoto: “That’s because Hinata doesn’t stand at the main character’s side like normal heroines*… she’s the type that watches him from the shadows.

>Interviewer: “I thought the heroine was Sakura?”

>Kishimoto: “That’s right. But Sakura is addicted to Sasuke.” (laugh) “The reason why Hinata came to like Naruto is clear, but I’ve deliberately avoided writing down the reason why Sakura came to like Sasuke.” (laugh) “That’s because somehow, I had the feeling that it would conversely end up sounding contrived.

This interview will cures all diseases.

 

I believe this was also after the ending. After Hinata said she would *stand besides* Naruto, a quote NH fans hold high and Kishi shut it down like this.


ナルサク


#17 winter-serenade

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:29 PM

 

People act differently around the people they love, certainly more often softer. I would certainly not go so far as to say she is weak around Sasuke though. The Kaguya part of the final act really serves to show otherwise.

Eh? The Kaguya part? Like when Sasuke let Sakura nearly die in lava, and then cried/nearly cried when Sasuke showed no remorse? When Naruto had to cheer her up? Or when Sasuke basically told her she was useless and there was nothing she could do? "Why do you need to know? There's nothing you can do." And she just takes it? No rebuttal? No, "I deserve to know, I'm apart of this fight to, Shannaro!" Uh, Sasuke. She's apart of the fight. She deserves to know.

 

Don't get me started on after they sealed Kaguya.


Edited by winter-serenade, 13 November 2017 - 06:29 PM.


#18 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:58 PM

Yeah... I used to feel bad that Naruto missed out on true love, but now that I look at it realistically, the person Sakura turned into is someone Naruto would never want to be with. Hinata is probably better, honestly... and I never thought I would say that. Hinata would at least stay out of his way.

 

A Sakura who would accept Sasuke after all his abuse isn't the Sakura that Naruto fell in love with. He loved her for her inner strength, her intelligence, and her fiery personality. None of these are on display in the canon SS relationship.

Yeah, I feel you, but like ThroughWithLove said

 

I think the inverse could be said about Naruto. The guy Sakura was being alluded to slowly falling in love with vanished a long time ago. All that remains is a drunken and demented Sasuke-obsessed nut job who hides from his wife and children with an equally demented paper work lust as his excuse. Little wonder Sakura never came around to him.

 

Both Naruto and Sakura have given up on their true selves just to cater to another person who didn't really love them in the first place. Anyone can make arguments about Hinata or whatever, but her "love" for Naruto is no different than Sakura's "love" for Sasuke. Hinata doesn't understand Naruto. Naruto NEEDS to be challenged. He NEEDS to be put back into his place. That is the type of character he is. Hinata only caters to his whims, not understands them. She doesn't challenge Naruto as a character because she is too busy being quiet. She doesn't understand him and she never will. I bet you even the sex was boring.

But you notice when Naruto is with Hinata and Sakura is with Sasuke they don't act like their true self. Sakura is always acting, or tries to, like the perfect housewife while Naruto with HInata always acts brittle and secluded. Something that of a far cry from his Hyperactice knuckle-headed ninja we have all come recognize...

AND YET....

When Sakura and Naruto are around each other they act like their usual selves. In Naruto Gaiden, when talking about Sakura, Naruto has the big goofy iconic grin we all know and love him for. He doesn't have it when he is around Hinata and Bolt. I never saw that grin even once the whole time. Same with Sakura. When she is around Naruto, she is more confident and far more of a person deserving of praise for being that complete woman. She isn't bending over and licking the dirt of Naruto's boots like Hinata is doing.

The truth is, most men hate subserviant woman. They don't like it because they know it is fake. They want a strong woman who can take command if they fail. They don't want to save the princess, they want a queen to fight beside them.

Even the pro-enders do this. Their favorite moments is not when Hinata is behind the tree, but rather when she is fighting next to Naruto so we know even the NH fans hate this crap. Esepcially when they do it to Sakura and pick on her for her pathetic nature. The difference is, they are afraid to admit that Hinata is the same way with Naruto that Sakura is with Sasuke. I even see comments of the pro-enders talking about how strong Hinata is and how she can defeat anyone which is far from the truth in the manga itself.

It is even sadder when especially Kishimoto writes the story and he portrays them as such. Read Naruto Gaiden and look how much Naruto changes simply because he is away from Hinata and is closer to Sakura and Sasuke. Hinata is sucking the life out of him.

The big question I have is is did Kishimoto do that on purpose and is secretly trying to tell us something or it is all one giant fluke? That I can not decide. Maybe I am hoping it is the former.
 

 

The one thing that bothers me though? Is anyone judging someone's love as making them weak.

 

I feel like the women in a lot of anime, and sometimes men too, get judged -way- too much in strength by who they love, rather than who they are, and really wish that would stop.

This is the only time I am going to respond to you because again, you don't know anything about the Naruto fanbase as you think you do.

This bold line right here is the question you need to be asking the pro-enders who based their whole ideal of how these characters are for who they married.
They berate Sakura NON-STOP because she stayed with Sasuke. Because she married Sasuke, she is called a pathetic, weak, terrible person and a horrible woman. They non-stop pick on her for her choice in men.

Please, go here

https://www.facebook.com/NarutoRock/

 

And look at some of the comments under the "Naruto group chats" posts. You will see that all anyone cares about is the kittening pairing choices and how Sakura is pathetic because she stayed with Sasuke ADMITTING that he tried to kill her, but then praise Naruto for being with Hinata because she is stronger than Sakura as a woman. You don't know what you are talking about, Analyzer, because every single person in the Naruto fandom and the creators themselves had reduced this entire series to shipping bait. That's all matters in this series anymore. That is all this series will be remembered for.

Please, I urge you, do some reasearch. Go to other fandoms and see how people react. Look at the pro-enders posts and see how much they praise the series because Naruto got with Hinata. That's it. They occasionally mention him becomign Hokage, but this was a no-brainer. That's like saying "I like Batman stories because Batman defeated the villain." No crap, he has to defeat the villain because if he didn't there would be no stories to tell.

Please for the love of god, Analyzer, stop trying to interpret our posts and debunking our thoughts with your weakass arguments and actually LISTEN to what is being told to you. The value of these characters has been reduced to who they married by the FANDOMS THEMSELVES. Not just us, but every single fan of this entire series. However, one big difference between us and them is that the anti-enders didn't like how the characters reduced to nothing more than pairing fodder to suit the fantasies of people with fetishes. We loved Naruto for the characters they were....we DON'T love it for the characters they have become and there is a huge significant difference.

 

If you can;t see the obvious, then there is no point in talking to you anymore. When you finally see the rest of the fandom and how disgustingly cruel they judge these characters for their love life...then you can come back and I will listen to you, but until that days comes...until you finally realize that...this is the last time I will even consider talking to you.
 

 

Eh? The Kaguya part? Like when Sasuke let Sakura nearly die in lava, and then cried/nearly cried when Sasuke showed no remorse? When Naruto had to cheer her up? Or when Sasuke basically told her she was useless and there was nothing she could do? "Why do you need to know? There's nothing you can do." And she just takes it? No rebuttal? No, "I deserve to know, I'm apart of this fight to, Shannaro!" Uh, Sasuke. She's apart of the fight. She deserves to know.

 

Don't get me started on after they sealed Kaguya.

 

Ding Ding Ding...someone give this girl a cookie.

Especially when Sasuke says "The only reason why I saved you was because Naruto stood next to you...and Naruto knows this." The whole reason why Naruto stood next to Sakura was because Sasuke wouldn't save them if he didn't. Naruto forced his hand.
 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 November 2017 - 07:21 PM.

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#19 Shadow Wolf

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:00 PM

 
Sasuke knew Kakashi had Sakura. Saying Sasuke let Sakura nearly die isn't accurate, and as cold as his point is, he is right in ensuring Naruto is safe.
 
On the rest, I would argue it is a point of view on what strength is. I do not agree that enduring Sasuke's dark treatment is weakness, I would call her endurance a strength and sympathetic point. It also isn't my point, as I was specifically addressing Sakura catching up to her team-mates, which is something done with Sasuke around. 
 
Plus Sasuke treated Naruto similarly, and others, so I find it unfair to hyperfocus and then conclude Sakura is weak for enduring. I instead believe the very concept of enduring is strength, -especially- since Sasuke did indeed see the light at the end.
 
Essentially, all of this makes Sakura not weak, but compassionate. Compassion is NOT weakness, nor love, thus my irritant to the descriptor. Toughness should not be regarded more of a strength than soft compassion. 
 
 
Some Fact Checks before I get to the point addressed to myself:
 
Anyone who is saying that Naruto and Sakura "Gave up on themselves" is wrong. No ifs, buts. You're wrong.
Anyone who is implying Naruto is unhappy is wrong. No ifs, buts. You're wrong. You're making stuff up.
If you're saying Naruto doesn't smile around his family, you're also wrong. No ifs, buts. You're wrong. Making stuff up. Cherry Picking perhaps. 
Anyone claiming Kishimoto is trying to send secret messages, or a fluke, is speaking without evidence.
 
Your interpretation of Hinata also is really, really off tainted by preconceived bias. You've never really portrayed her fairly, and I don't think you ever will be capable of it.
 
And some plain subjectivity on my part: 
 
I flat out disagree that Anyone needs to be put in their place. I actually highly dislike fanon NS portrayals that work this way when its employed in a serious fashion. 
I also flat out continue to disagree with your thoughts on the fandom, or that there is "subservience". You're creating an interpretation of characters that lacks evidence or support.
 
Now to address your part, there are way more people here, on these forums, implying or thinking poorly of Sakura for her choice. Of course there are some in other places, Sakura and Sasuke for that matter have always been divisive characters. 
 
No, the creators haven't reduced the series to shipping bait, or the fans. That's all you -see-. You're glossing over everything else, and it's really not hard to see it. Of course shippers celebrate their pairings, and they talk about the current ongoings in the manga, or anime. 
 
Perhaps ask why they praise the series? Because very few would say their pairing alone, or even as a major reason.
 
I've done my research, a ton of it. No, I will never see the fandom as you see it, because I lack the hatred you have, and never want it, honestly. I'm honestly more hopeful you can let go of it sometime and see the series in more of a fair light, rather than spewing vile at it that's quite untrue most of the time.
 
My primary argument to your posts is summed up with: Evidence? And you have yet, and cannot, provide it, for your primary claim of "Secret messages of the characters not being true and against Kishimoto's wishes". 


Wow, you and Kishi have a lot un common you know... And that's not me praising you.

The evidence that you so much want is in the manga itself. You have been presented with missing plot points (bench scene), character behaviors (puppy eyes to try and get a kiss), comparisons to human nature (You would NOT love someone who tries to MURDER you, period), inconsistencies in Kishi's interviews (I planned NH from the middle... I planned it from the beginning), and yet you still try to say that we are wrong. Really, it makes me wonder if you are just Kishi's new editor (after the one who helped him until the Pain Arc left), which I'm pretty sure would behave just like you. But you know what, it doesn't matter, since you have tried so hard to deny the facts that no one can take you seriously anymore. I commend you for being persistent, but that's basically the only thing I can consider to be a virtue about you. Well, keep trying sister Analyzer.

Moving on...


Something Sakura should have asked... Very simple... Was the person who praised her forehead, and basically have her the confidence from the very start of the series truly Sasuke?

Who was encouraging her vs who was causing her pain?

Who was putting his needs aside for her vs who puts his needs first before her?

Who trusted her abilities vs who considered her weak?

Who protected her vs who harmed her? (And you can bring the Tenchi Bridge Arc here but what happened right after? Naruto got called out by Yamato)

And keep doing the comparisons... The difference becomes very obvious.

#20 Kagomaru

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:14 PM

Yeah, I feel you, but like ThroughWithLove said

 

 

Both Naruto and Sakura have given up on their true selves just to cater to another person who didn't really love them in the first place. Anyone can make arguments about Hinata or whatever, but her "love" for Naruto is no different than Sakura's "love" for Sasuke. Hinata doesn't understand Naruto. Naruto NEEDS to be challenged. He NEEDS to be put back into his place. That is the type of character he is. Hinata only caters to his whims, not understands them. She doesn't challenge Naruto as a character because she is too busy being quiet. She doesn't understand him and she never will. I bet you even the sex was boring.

But you notice when Naruto is with Hinata and Sakura is with Sasuke they don't act like their true self. Sakura is always acting, or tries to, like the perfect housewife while Naruto with HInata always acts brittle and secluded. Something that of a far cry from his Hyperactice knuckle-headed ninja we have all come recognize...

AND YET....

When Sakura and Naruto are around each other they act like their usual selves. In Naruto Gaiden, when talking about Sakura, Naruto has the big goofy iconic grin we all know and love him for. He doesn't have it when he is around Hinata and Bolt. I never saw that grin even once the whole time. Same with Sakura. When she is around Naruto, she is more confident and far more of a person deserving of praise for being that complete woman. She isn't bending over and licking the dirt of Naruto's boots like Hinata is doing.

The truth is, most men hate subserviant woman. They don't like it because they know it is fake. They want a strong woman who can take command if they fail. They don't want to save the princess, they want a queen to fight beside them.

Even the pro-enders do this. Their favorite moments is not when Hinata is behind the tree, but rather when she is fighting next to Naruto so we know even the NH fans hate this crap. Esepcially when they do it to Sakura and pick on her for her pathetic nature. The difference is, they are afraid to admit that Hinata is the same way with Naruto that Sakura is with Sasuke. I even see comments of the pro-enders talking about how strong Hinata is and how she can defeat anyone which is far from the truth in the manga itself.

It is even sadder when especially Kishimoto writes the story and he portrays them as such. Read Naruto Gaiden and look how much Naruto changes simply because he is away from Hinata and is closer to Sakura and Sasuke. Hinata is sucking the life out of him.

The big question I have is is did Kishimoto do that on purpose and is secretly trying to tell us something or it is all one giant fluke? That I can not decide. Maybe I am hoping it is the former.
 

 

This is the only time I am going to respond to you because again, you don't know anything about the Naruto fanbase as you think you do.

This bold line right here is the question you need to be asking the pro-enders who based their whole ideal of how these characters are for who they married.
They berate Sakura NON-STOP because she stayed with Sasuke. Because she married Sasuke, she is called a pathetic, weak, terrible person and a horrible woman. They non-stop pick on her for her choice in men.

Please, go here

https://www.facebook.com/NarutoRock/

 

And look at some of the comments under the "Naruto group chats" posts. You will see that all anyone cares about is the kittening pairing choices and how Sakura is pathetic because she stayed with Sasuke ADMITTING that he tried to kill her, but then praise Naruto for being with Hinata because she is stronger than Sakura as a woman. You don't know what you are talking about, Analyzer, because every single person in the Naruto fandom and the creators themselves had reduced this entire series to shipping bait. That's all matters in this series anymore. That is all this series will be remembered for.

Please, I urge you, do some reasearch. Go to other fandoms and see how people react. Look at the pro-enders posts and see how much they praise the series because Naruto got with Hinata. That's it. They occasionally mention him becomign Hokage, but this was a no-brainer. That's like saying "I like Batman stories because Batman defeated the villain." No crap, he has to defeat the villain because if he didn't there would be no stories to tell.

Please for the love of god, Analyzer, stop trying to interpret our posts and debunking our thoughts with your weakass arguments and actually LISTEN to what is being told to you. The value of these characters has been reduced to who they married by the FANDOMS THEMSELVES. Not just us, but every single fan of this entire series. However, one big difference between us and them is that the anti-enders didn't like how the characters reduced to nothing more than pairing fodder to suit the fantasies of people with fetishes. We loved Naruto for the characters they were....we DON'T love it for the characters they have become and there is a huge significant difference.

 

If you can;t see the obvious, then there is no point in talking to you anymore. When you finally see the rest of the fandom and how disgustingly cruel they judge these characters for their love life...then you can come back and I will listen to you, but until that days comes...until you finally realize that...this is the last time I will even consider talking to you.
 

 

 

Ding Ding Ding...someone give this girl a cookie.

Especially when Sasuke says "The only reason why I saved you was because Naruto stood next to you...and Naruto knows this." The whole reason why Naruto stood next to Sakura was because Sasuke wouldn't save them if he didn't. Naruto forced his hand.
 

Agreed on all fronts. Both Naruto and Sakura sacrificed not only their happiness, but their true personalities in the name of obsession. Furthermore, we can never put Sakura's obsession on display while neglecting Naruto's, because it's perpetuating a hypocritical double standard by doing so.  Naruto was willing to absolve Sasuke of every and any crime he committed, no matter how deep his transgressions were.  Sakura was at least willing to kill Sasuke, whether you go by her reason to release Naruto from a heavy burden that would lead to his death, or prevent Sasuke from completely losing his soul to his own festering malevolence and insanity.

 

And Hinata is probably worse than either one of them ultimately turned out because she's proven to be entirely self-centered yet also passive.  Say what you will about Sakura, but she tries to be a decent parent to Sarada whereas Hinata will do nothing as her husband ignores both his children so that he can satisfy his lust for paperwork and avoid his family as much humanly possible.  When Boruto criticizes his father in front of his mother and sister for being a non-entity at home in the manga, does Hinata meet him halfway to acknowledge her husband's faults and offer to mediate the divide by speaking to him or having a family intervention?  No, she meekly retorts with a failed attempt at a guilt-trip by telling her son how his father had so much harder than himself.

 

"Standing out of his way"/enabling his behavior is exactly why Naruto continues to be a complete kitten to his family and why we've argued for years that Hinata is not compatible match for him. If Sakura were his wife, you would never even dream of Naruto behaving as he is in canon.

 

Oh, and I can't forget how Hinata charged her son with her husband's protection or how she was practically willing to make her children into orphans by jumping into a fight would've led to her death, all so she could be with her man.

 

Great parenting, Hinata.  You prove that as long you have your beloved husbando "Naruto-kun", you would happily leave any of your blood relatives to rot or be miserable, as examplified by your borderline sociopathic attitude in reaction to Neji's death and Hanabi's kidnapping.


Edited by Kagomaru, 13 November 2017 - 08:29 PM.

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