31572 replies to this topic

[RulesofNature]

That's the lesbian prison girls force to fight monster in giant robots anime right? Were the complaints in Japan or in the west?

Japan. The West took it as pure schlock.

[Namaenash]

Checked this out a boxer has posted a tweet asking how come Naruto and sakura never got together, the NH & SS are salty as you except https://twitter.com/...0832145409?s=19


Also I'm arguing with a hinata fan when I replied using the hinata trips over a rock pic and the fan used a response that that naruto also tripped but I cant recall when he did that him ever doing that. https://twitter.com/...1906278402?s=19

Any unbiased readers/viewers will question the same. You don't need to be a genius. "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" - Ockham's razor. The story was written with a lot of NS development until the last few chapters.

It will take simplistic explanation to justify NS, since all the narrative in romance department points to that direction for the series' past 15 years.

Yet, it took two full dedicated movies, tons of retcons, tons of justification through contradicting interviews to explain and justify NH/SS. That too, will never be able to undo what has been written for NS.

Therefore such question is valid: perpetually people will be puzzled why Naruto and Sakura never became a thing.

No point to argue, since it doesn't matter anymore.

The fact that more than 5 years after the ending you got people asking such question indicates that whatever U-turn is not workable, nor believable.

As for the argument on Hinata tripping over the rock and its significance: the context is Naruto was dying. Who was there to save Naruto from death? Sakura. She did the CPR, while Hinata trips over a rock. I don't know why Hinata fans are not insulted with that depiction.

What does it imply? It implies that Hinata couldn't be there in the most critical situation of Naruto's life, whereas Sakura was there, trying her best to keep him alive while saying she don't want to loose him and she even think of his dreams "right in front of us". Sakura understands. Sakura didn't think about Sasuke at all that whole time. At the same time Sasuke was stabbed to death and Karin was there to save him.

The significance of these scenes are clear: both NH/SS women were never around at the most critical time (death) of their SO.

Edited by Namaenash, 22 December 2020 - 12:48 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Any unbiased readers/viewers will question the same. You don't need to be a genius. "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" - Ockham's razor. The story was written with a lot of NS development until the last few chapters.

It will take simplistic explanation to justify NS, since all the narrative in romance department points to that direction for the series' past 15 years.

Yet, it took two full dedicated movies, tons of retcons, tons of justification through contradicting interviews to explain and justify NH/SS. That too, will never be able to undo what has been written for NS.

Therefore such question is valid: perpetually people will be puzzled why Naruto and Sakura never became a thing.

No point to argue, since it doesn't matter anymore.

The fact that more than 5 years after the ending you got people asking such question indicates that whatever U-turn is not workable, nor believable.

As for the argument on Hinata tripping over the rock and its significance: the context is Naruto was dying. Who was there to save Naruto from death? Sakura. She did the CPR, while Hinata trips over a rock. I don't know why Hinata fans are not insulted with that depiction.

What does it imply? It implies that Hinata couldn't be there in the most critical situation of Naruto's life, whereas Sakura was there, trying her best to keep him alive while saying she don't want to loose him and she even think of his dreams "right in front of us". Sakura understands. Sakura didn't think about Sasuke at all that whole time. At the same time Sasuke was stabbed to death and Karin was there to save him.

The significance of these scenes are clear: both NH/SS women were never around at the most critical time (death) of their SO.

"Everything Hinata does is good, important, significant, and show her undying devotion to Naruto. Everything Sakura does is bad because she hits Naruto."

 

Were their two movies dedicated to nH/SS? There was the Last for nH, and the gaiden a ten chapter manga for SS. Boruto was for Boruto and used SNS to sell itself.

 

Japan. The West took it as pure schlock.

Wasn't it?

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Wasn't it?

Yeah, Cross Ange is one of those "so bad, it's entertaining" anime to me, lol.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah, Cross Ange is one of those "so bad, it's entertaining" anime to me, lol.

 

I think a lot of people felt that way, considering how some stuff Sunrise does lately can really be hit or miss. XD

[Illnevergiveup3]

Any unbiased readers/viewers will question the same. You don't need to be a genius. "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" - Ockham's razor. The story was written with a lot of NS development until the last few chapters.

It will take simplistic explanation to justify NS, since all the narrative in romance department points to that direction for the series' past 15 years.

Yet, it took two full dedicated movies, tons of retcons, tons of justification through contradicting interviews to explain and justify NH/SS. That too, will never be able to undo what has been written for NS.

Therefore such question is valid: perpetually people will be puzzled why Naruto and Sakura never became a thing.

No point to argue, since it doesn't matter anymore.

The fact that more than 5 years after the ending you got people asking such question indicates that whatever U-turn is not workable, nor believable.

As for the argument on Hinata tripping over the rock and its significance: the context is Naruto was dying. Who was there to save Naruto from death? Sakura. She did the CPR, while Hinata trips over a rock. I don't know why Hinata fans are not insulted with that depiction.

What does it imply? It implies that Hinata couldn't be there in the most critical situation of Naruto's life, whereas Sakura was there, trying her best to keep him alive while saying she don't want to loose him and she even think of his dreams "right in front of us". Sakura understands. Sakura didn't think about Sasuke at all that whole time. At the same time Sasuke was stabbed to death and Karin was there to save him.

The significance of these scenes are clear: both NH/SS women were never around at the most critical time (death) of their SO.

🙌🙌💯💯💯✊✊✊

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 23 December 2020 - 12:14 AM.

[RulesofNature]

 

I think a lot of people felt that way, considering how some stuff Sunrise does lately can really be hit or miss. XD

Well, here's a few things that happened.

 

One of the producers of the show was Mitsuo Fukuda. You know, the guy who directed the Gundam SEED duology. Fukuda was active on twitter for the show, and put himself at the center of the controversy. Remember when Tusk and the maid looked to have died, only to reappear with no explanation? Fukuda talked about this on twitter. Basically, the director of the show wanted to have perma-death, to give the show some real stakes. Fukuda disagreed, and got the rest of the staff to go along with his "they're fine," He went on to talk about how viewers don't care how a person survives, just that they do, then he pulled answers out of his ass to have an explanation.

 

He had to lock down his twitter after this.

 

He also yelled at one of the VA's for accidentally spoiling something. His final moment was after the ending. People were pointing out that Ange basically doomed humanity while she went off to have her happy ending. It made her look really, really bad, so Fukuda made some statements that a side character is watching over mankind so it's a happy ending despite this not being supported by the show.

 

At a fan event following the series, he got into trouble again when he claimed that Cross Ange sold well enough they could make a sequel but Sunrise had "other plans." People took this to be another Gundam series in the works, which turned out to be IBO. He urged fans to continue to support the show so they could make more. This was the guy who made one of the biggest anime of the 2000's, begging fans to get him more work. Moreover, Cross Ange sold worse than the Gundam series that aired alongside it, Reconguista in G made by Gundam creator Yoshiyuki Tomino. G-Reco was pretty much thrown under the bus from the getgo with a terrible timeslot and little promotion but ended up being a minor hit. Ange's first volume sold a good 10k copies (it was bundled with a ticket to an event with Ange/Hinata's VA), but afterwards it's sales plummeted.

 

Reconguista is now being reworked into 5 compilation films, two of which have been theatrically released. Basically, the entire show is being reworked to be shown on the Silver screen. There is nothing about more Ange.

[Bail o' Lies]

"The guy who directed the Gundam SEED duology."

 

I barely know anything about Japanese animation and its directors but I know enough that line is a warning sign.

 

"It was bundled with a ticket to an event with Ange/Hinata's VA"

 

So, Nana again was used to prop up a kitten-show. this is starting to explain why all the roles I have seen her in have been increasingly more tsuderes instead of moe...unless it something like one piece or dororo.

[totherpage95]

https://youtu.be/k_DqQ84R81Y

😔
at least narusasu in the lead now

[Phantom_999]

Naru Sasu has ALWAYS been more legit than NaruHina and SasuSaku!!! In all seriousness, they confide to each other and are meet WAY more often than they do with their own wives.

 

 

Any unbiased readers/viewers will question the same. You don't need to be a genius. "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" - Ockham's razor. The story was written with a lot of NS development until the last few chapters.

It will take simplistic explanation to justify NS, since all the narrative in romance department points to that direction for the series' past 15 years.

Yet, it took two full dedicated movies, tons of retcons, tons of justification through contradicting interviews to explain and justify NH/SS. That too, will never be able to undo what has been written for NS.

Therefore such question is valid: perpetually people will be puzzled why Naruto and Sakura never became a thing.

No point to argue, since it doesn't matter anymore.

The fact that more than 5 years after the ending you got people asking such question indicates that whatever U-turn is not workable, nor believable.

As for the argument on Hinata tripping over the rock and its significance: the context is Naruto was dying. Who was there to save Naruto from death? Sakura. She did the CPR, while Hinata trips over a rock. I don't know why Hinata fans are not insulted with that depiction.

What does it imply? It implies that Hinata couldn't be there in the most critical situation of Naruto's life, whereas Sakura was there, trying her best to keep him alive while saying she don't want to loose him and she even think of his dreams "right in front of us". Sakura understands. Sakura didn't think about Sasuke at all that whole time. At the same time Sasuke was stabbed to death and Karin was there to save him.

The significance of these scenes are clear: both NH/SS women were never around at the most critical time (death) of their SO.

 

but of course the writing was there. Plain as day. Whom does Naruto spend all of his time with when not on duty? Sakura? Whom is Naruto the most emotionally close to? ( I don't count Sasuke for various reasons)  Sakura. Whom does Naruto ask out on dates? Sakura and this is especially important because Naruto is not like Goku, Luffy or any typical  Shonen romance ignorant MC. He made his preferences since the start of the manga clear. therefore "not a romance manga" does not apply to Naruto. I've stated time and time again, IF Naruto was not meant to focus on romance so the end couples will happen without actually bombing the literary structure created, Naruto might as well have been just like Goku in that he doesn't know what romance is nor have interest in any girl. Those intimate moments with Sakura might as well not have happened at if it REALLY wanted to go the typical shonen route with focus on on the action and plot, and save the "crack pairings for the end". If Naruto really wanted to emulate Dragon Ball it has to remember there was nothing going on with Goku and Bulma to warrant a relationship between them. that is the key difference here.

 

The only thing I can say about this is....is that the more people that come out asking why Naruto and Sakura didn't get together...the more it proves how there is some legit stuff in there. It is just said that when a neutral fans asks a legit question, the almost immediate response is..."because you're a salty pairing fan."

 

They don't have a real answer. Sure, they give all these trivial garbage logic, but there is no real reason why Naruto and Sakura didn't get together when you have pairings like Minato and Kushina that had the EXACT SAME DYNAMIC.

 

The ONLY reason they give is "Because *insert girl* loved them." That's not a good enough reason. You are basically saying that the guy's feelings never mattered and only girls can dictate love affairs.

 

Okay, then how does Toradora feel so right? They both loved different people only to realize they loved each other more. You can make arguments that Taiga is abusive too and she deserved nobody, but you will never hear fans say this. Only in Naruto.

 

I still am baffled

Why is Naruto such a special case? I NEVER hear any other fanbase argue like this in any other situation. The closet one I can think of is Bleach and even then that wasn't that bad.

 

 

 

I would also add that the only reason Hinata got any headway in Japan was because her VA is a popstar icon, but that's it. They never liked the character herself, just her VA. Maybe that is why staff at SP liked her so much because of her VA and they were obsessed with wanting to bang their pop star. I don't know.

 

All I know is is that SP showed clear case of bias and purposely forced Hinata to be more important than she actually was. Plus, SP has to continue to deny their hate for Sakura on a daily basis even though we know, they hated her. At least a good portion of the staff did.

 

I will LAUGH IN IRONY if ANY NaruHina fanatic actually admit to loving Taiga and Ryuji's relationship. I WILL use every *beep* *beep* argument they have ever come up with to tear down NaruSaku and use it in the EXACT SAME WAY for Taiga and and Ryuji. I DARE THEM to say that they think Ryuji and Taiga is "true love"     

Edited by Phantom_999, 25 December 2020 - 01:07 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Well that is to say I actually love Toradora as a story I’m just kitten slapping these loonies with their own hypocrisy. The Ones that are adamant about hating Sakura and praising Hinata to the heavens mind you, not all NaruHina fans are bad. I’m pretty sure there are respectful and nice ones

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 December 2020 - 02:29 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Well that is to say I actually love Toradora as a story Im just kitten slapping these loonies with their own hypocrisy. The Ones that are adamant about hating Sakura and praising Hinata to the heavens mind you, not all NaruHina fans are bad. Im prettY sure there are respectful and nice ones

yeah. They will say, I am sorry they are treating you this way, even though my ship won, they have no right to harass you. Basically, passive aggressive from what Ive seen. Apologize for their fellow NHers while still throwing it in your face that they won. As far my experience goes with the nice ones anyways.

[Yyubie]

Hi guys and gals .... been a while since i post here, how are you all?

 

My friends post whatsapp status image, and in that image Boruto Stabs the Coon's rinnegan eye ... that really makes me happy although my joy would be rise to the fullest if they both take each other out, that would make a wonderful christmass/new year present.

 

But this farce boruto anime and it's abomination manga still continue after all ... and i thought to myself ... wow no wonder in this world good guy died fast because god says that they've done enough and they seat/ticket to heaven is ready so they don't have to deal with B.S in life anymore, while evil people have long live because god want them to repent for their since so god gave them more time so they can make up for their wrong doing. That's what i'm applying to this rotting franchise ... it makes me at peace knowing that bad guys always win because god gave them more time for redemption.

 

And by the way , Merry Christmass

Edited by Yyubie, 25 December 2020 - 04:34 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I know Hinata's VA has gotten backlash over her roles in recent years, something to do with not just NaruHina but another pairing as well. Think they even went after her for Cross Ange having a male as the lead's love interest.

 

I enjoy some of Nana Mizuki's more "main stream roles" such as Colette Brunel from Tales of Symphonia, ( I LOVE THAT GAME SO MUCH  ) and Vanessa Enoteca from Black Clover. Apparently she voiced Wrath from the First Fullmetal Alchemist anime. She also voices Ann Takamaki from Persona 5(I may actually want to get into that game but we'll see, since there are a pile of games I must finish first) and other roles that I find of interest. I have nothing against her as a VA. I'm not even mad that she voiced Hinata. WHAT I AM PISSED AT, is the fact that that the praise and over-hype for Hinata came from idiotic trash "wish fulfillment" of wanting Naruto to "bang her" because male weaboo, otaku WANNABES imagine themselves "banging her". Or Hinata is a self insert for an girl never able to confess to the nice guy with the smile that makes them swoon, etc etc. AND that these nonsensical fallacies won over the writing structure and characterization of the story. I AM PISSED that not only that NH ans SS are in these pathetic excuses of marriages and that there was no effort in developing them like proper couples BUT ALSO THAT this is treated as TRUE LOVE. NO other fictional media I've ever read, watched or heard FORCES the notion that this is "true love" down my throat and insult my reading comprehension skills

Edited by Phantom_999, 08 August 2021 - 11:41 AM.

[RulesofNature]

 

I enjoy some of Nana Mizuki's more "main stream roles" such as Colette Brunel from Tales of Symphonia, ( I LOVE THAT GAME SO MUCH  ) and Vanessa Enoteca from Black Clover. Apparently she voiced Wrath from the First Fullmetal Alchemist anime. She also voices Ann Takamaki from Persona 5(I may actually want to get into that game but we'll see, since there are a pile of games I must finish first) and other roles that I find of interest. I have nothing against her as a VA. I'm not even mad that she voiced Hinata. WHAT I AM PISSED AT, is the fact that that the praise and over-hype for Hinata came from idiotic trash "wish fulfillment" of wanting Naruto to "bang her" because male weaboo, otaku WANNABES imagine themselves "banging her". Or Hinata is a self insert for an girl never able to confess to the nice guy with the smile that makes them swoon, etc etc. AND that these nonsensical fallacies won over the writing structure and characterization of the story. I AM PISSED that not only that NH ans SS are in these pathetic excuses of marriages and that there was no effort in developing them like proper couples BUT ALSO THAT this is treated as TRUE LOVE. NO other fictional media I've ever read, watched or heard FORCES the notion that this is "true love" down my throat and insulting my reading comprehension skills

Preach. I mean, it's not unique to Hinata but it's always a massive pain in the ass when it happens. It's like the Fire Emblem fandom right now with Edelgard and...

 

Oh, kitten me that mess. Early on, a bunch of her defenders claimed that the translation was bad because it makes her look bad. That she sounds a lot harsher than she does in the Japanese. However, people have been translating the lines again and they found stuff. Oh god the stuff they found. What's more, the original game appears to have had themes based on Buddhism and the Mandate of Heaven (the latter is confirmed in a developers interview). Those were wiped from the English version. Negative elements about Edelgard like the implication she uses propaganda, is manipulating the evil cult, is trying to commit genocide against the dragons, and more are removed or altered. Like there's this interaction if Ferdinand fights Hubert; In Japan he says that Edelgard must be removed from the throne and he will make sure of it even if it kills him, in English have Hubert say Ferdinand is just like his slimebag father and Ferdinand simply says he has his orders. Or that in Edelgard's route, Dimitri and Rhea were supposed to be equal partners rather than Dimitri swearing fealty to her. What's more, the NoA twitter account wished Edelgard a happy birthday, something they didn't do for the other two lords of the game.

 

It's a complete farce. The American staff gutted what the game was trying to say, instead making the VILLAIN ROUTE come out looking just as heroic as the other ones. I could understand if they were simply incompetent, but no. They show clear favoritism towards her. And you know how freaking hard it is to discuss a game with someone when the translators changed things to such an extent? And that's not even going into the mental hoops her fans go through to justify her actions. The fact I know people who wish we could return to Fates discourse shows how toxic the fandom has gotten.

[totherpage95]

 

I enjoy some of Nana Mizuki's more "main stream roles" such as Colette Brunel from Tales of Symphonia, ( I LOVE THAT GAME SO MUCH  ) and Vanessa Enoteca from Black Clover. Apparently she voiced Wrath from the First Fullmetal Alchemist anime. She also voices Ann Takamaki from Persona 5(I may actually want to get into that game but we'll see, since there are a pile of games I must finish first) and other roles that I find of interest. I have nothing against her as a VA. I'm not even mad that she voiced Hinata. WHAT I AM PISSED AT, is the fact that that the praise and over-hype for Hinata came from idiotic trash "wish fulfillment" of wanting Naruto to "bang her" because male weaboo, otaku WANNABES imagine themselves "banging her". Or Hinata is a self insert for an girl never able to confess to the nice guy with the smile that makes them swoon, etc etc. AND that these nonsensical fallacies won over the writing structure and characterization of the story. I AM PISSED that not only that NH ans SS are in these pathetic excuses of marriages and that there was no effort in developing them like proper couples BUT ALSO THAT this is treated as TRUE LOVE. NO other fictional media I've ever read, watched or heard FORCES the notion that this is "true love" down my throat and insulting my reading comprehension skills

i do like nana mizuki's singing and in rosario+vampire anime and the tales of symphonia anime (i plan to play the game as well). But yeah the love for hinata doesn't make a whole lot of sense in that context (i do have someone in my discord server who thinks she's a stalker and another who i got to ship ns even though he likes hinata as well).

[Phantom_999]

Preach. I mean, it's not unique to Hinata but it's always a massive pain in the ass when it happens. It's like the Fire Emblem fandom right now with Edelgard and...

 

Oh, kitten me that mess. Early on, a bunch of her defenders claimed that the translation was bad because it makes her look bad. That she sounds a lot harsher than she does in the Japanese. However, people have been translating the lines again and they found stuff. Oh god the stuff they found. What's more, the original game appears to have had themes based on Buddhism and the Mandate of Heaven (the latter is confirmed in a developers interview). Those were wiped from the English version. Negative elements about Edelgard like the implication she uses propaganda, is manipulating the evil cult, is trying to commit genocide against the dragons, and more are removed or altered. Like there's this interaction if Ferdinand fights Hubert; In Japan he says that Edelgard must be removed from the throne and he will make sure of it even if it kills him, in English have Hubert say Ferdinand is just like his slimebag father and Ferdinand simply says he has his orders. Or that in Edelgard's route, Dimitri and Rhea were supposed to be equal partners rather than Dimitri swearing fealty to her. What's more, the NoA twitter account wished Edelgard a happy birthday, something they didn't do for the other two lords of the game.

 

It's a complete farce. The American staff gutted what the game was trying to say, instead making the VILLAIN ROUTE come out looking just as heroic as the other ones. I could understand if they were simply incompetent, but no. They show clear favoritism towards her. And you know how freaking hard it is to discuss a game with someone when the translators changed things to such an extent? And that's not even going into the mental hoops her fans go through to justify her actions. The fact I know people who wish we could return to Fates discourse shows how toxic the fandom has gotten.

 

Well yeah, Both are overhyped and overpraised definitely. Their defenders are SOOOOOO offended by any critique of their characters because they can be no less than perfection incarnate. I get that. I was just assuming that we were addressing that Nana Mizuki was getting heat for something that was out of her control. Hinata and that Cross Ange tripe, particularly. I'm just personally saying I don't bother with that fandom indignation drama with voice actors and I have nothing against her personally because she does voice roles I actually really like /love even. Again Hinata and the Cross Ange nonsense wasn't her fault, it was the writers. If you ask me anyway

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 December 2020 - 03:30 PM.

[totherpage95]

someone in my discord reached episode 495 in shippuden and asked "is this the same manga"

[Illnevergiveup3]

someone in my discord reached episode 495 in shippuden and asked "is this the same manga"

anybody who isn't biased could see the clear direction of the story, especially one that is sooo clearcut. I understand opinions, but not when the story clearly goes in such a clearcut direction, i.e. (Naruto and Sakura-Chan getting married and having kids and Naruto becoming the Hokage.) Every chapter was a stepping stone towards those two things.  I could NEVER understand how people could read the entire Manga and say kitten like:

 

"Naruto doesn't love Sakura."

 

"Sakura doesn't love Naruto.

 

"Naruto and Hinata belong together.

 

"Sasuke and Sakura belong together."

 

"Sasuke and Karin doesn't belong together."

 

"Naruto and Sakura isn't going to happen."

 

"Sasuke has secret feelings for Sakura."

 

"Naruto and Sakura isn't end game."

 

"The parallels work in NH/SS's favor."

 

"Naruto is a SS shipper himself."

 

"Naruto has secret feelings for Hinata."

 

and much more.

 

Then they say in regards to Sai:

"Sai doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to Naruto loving Sakura, but when Sai says that Sakura is only doing it to bring Sasuke out of the darkness, then, that's when Sai is legitimate."

 

Saying Naruto doesn't want to be with and marry Sakura-Chan is like saying Naruto doesn't want to be the Hokage. And we KNOW Naruto wants to be the damn Hokage.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 26 December 2020 - 10:18 PM.

[Phantom_999]

someone in my discord reached episode 495 in shippuden and asked "is this the same manga"

 

Well, well, well.  Someone is QUESTIONING this. That's a good