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If kishimoto were to come out many many years later and told us the truth of why naruto ended the way it did would you forgive him?


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#21 TerrorKing

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:11 PM

It's difficult to say. It would depend on what his reason is. It would have to be honest and not just a a way for him to try and save face to appease his fans. I don't know exactly how to gauge something like that, but then again I don't think there will ever be an appropriate time to basically admit that you lost control over your own series. 

 

Would I be able to forgive him? No, not completely. I would accept his apology and acknowledge his honesty, but in the end it won't change the fact that the ending is kitten and that the pretty much all the characters that I've followed for so many years were ruined. Would it help if he changed the ending? Definitely, but it still won't be the same. I'd be intrigued and would probably check it if only to see what his original intention was, but I don't think I can ever really be as excited about Naruto as I used to be.

 

And really, we don't even know whether this was actually his original intention or not. It's just that all the evidence points to this being a case of executive meddling. This is honestly what is most dishearthning to me. I know that at the end of the day Naruto is a commercial product and that shueisha aren't just doing this because they care so very much about Kishi's creative vision. It's a business and businesses have to make money. It's just this relentless focus solely on profit that's bothers me. I personally find intergrity and good will to be much more important.    


Edited by TerrorKing, 18 February 2015 - 09:25 PM.

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#22 Pix

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:38 PM

 

I fall into your friends boat. This isn't the first time I've had to sit through a retarded ending (or final act) that in no way reflects the potential of the rest of the narrative, but I've grown very tired of it. And to see Kishimoto do what he did these characters I've grown up just made me lose all faith in the manga/anime industry entirely. Don't get me wrong. I think I'll see read One Piece, but besides that, I'm done.

 

I don't care whether Kishi comes out and admits anything or not. The damage has already been done and no amount of self-serving excuses are going to change that.

Yeah. I can honestly say that my first horrid ending will always be Katekyo Hitman Reborn. Always. That ending was so foul that it falls short only of Naruto. All of the character development was wasted, everything went back to chapter 1, etc. It felt like I wasted years of following a plot for absolutely nothing.  

 

But at the end of the say, I've found manga (specifically manga) to be way more well rounded compared to anime. There's so many original and intriguing stories out there, you just gotta know where to look. I usually start with Seinen and Josei types.


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#23 rocci

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 10:46 PM

Honestly all of this drama sounds like one big trilogy. I still would never fall into peer pressure because at the end of the day, you're supposed to make art for you, not for anyone else. If this is true then it's a horrible tragedy. He couldn't even end it the way he wanted to...

Mangaka make manga for fan. They don't make it for oneself or else it will not sell well.

As a NS fan, I will not forgive him.
As a manga fan, I don't care about him anymore. He could make another hit with seinen manga (hahaha) but I will never see him as great mangaka.

#24 Pix

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 03:20 AM

Mangaka make manga for fan. They don't make it for oneself or else it will not sell well.

As a NS fan, I will not forgive him.
As a manga fan, I don't care about him anymore. He could make another hit with seinen manga (hahaha) but I will never see him as great mangaka.

Well that's not necessarily true. If you read a lot more seinen and slice of life you'll find more mangaka artists expressing themselves openly, whereas with mangas made for a younger readers are more reformed. The best stories are written when the artist has a connection to them.


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#25 rikakim94

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 04:48 AM

Mangaka make manga for fan. They don't make it for oneself or else it will not sell well.

As a NS fan, I will not forgive him.
As a manga fan, I don't care about him anymore. He could make another hit with seinen manga (hahaha) but I will never see him as great mangaka.

 

You whats really sad? I do see good potential for that senin series he made back in 2013 but now that kishi shows his true colors I don't know if he could make another hit. Unless he learns his mistakes of what went wrong with the naruto manga and if he keeps yahagi as an editor until the end of his senin series would be good for kishi.


Edited by rikakim94, 19 February 2015 - 04:49 AM.


#26 FreakySandra1995

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 10:15 AM

Yes, I would forgive. I know, it sucks that we were the one screwed over, but honestly, in the end it's not worth crying tears over it. It's just a manga after all (and I say that as a hardcore follower for over 10 years). I do wish that things ended differently, but that doesn't mean that I want to hold a grudge against him forever. He is just human after all. 
His reputation is damaged enough for me to decide not to watch anymore of his stuff though, I still hold NaruSaku as an ship of mine that I like to draw, but that's individual from the plot he created. I'm not a fan of his series anymore and moved on. Maybe that's why it's easier to forgive him, I dunno. 


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#27 nikki1314

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 12:59 PM

The Only Reason i can see for him to change his story. is if suddenly I become rich in the next few years and i would pay kishi double the money SP promised him! LOL


Edited by nikki1314, 19 February 2015 - 12:59 PM.

-Naruto ending gets released- 

Kishi: Honey, I’m home! 

His wife:

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#28 starlitestarbrite

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 03:49 PM

nope. he's crushed the fandom WAY too many times'. all the trolling, false hopes', lying, retconning, messing up. he's just too stupid to do anything right. now i wonder if he's even human, or technology finnally really DID go futuristic, and humanoids' [A.I] really ARE taking over the buissness industry LOL...

 

that would actually be kinda cool...but, kinda sad. everyone loosing their job to robots' and computers'...OOOR they could USE them to their own advantage sending the world even further into a whimsical future...wait WAW that just whent off topic

 

kinda like kishi, and his manga naruto...talking about ninjas' one min. then superhuman gods the next.but, no what kishi, and SP did to naruto, and sakura are unforgivable


Edited by starlitestarbrite, 19 February 2015 - 03:53 PM.


#29 tricksie

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 03:56 PM

I think forgive is too strong a word. I don't care enough to 'forgive' him. And I don't see him making any mea culpas unless he continues on and creates a new manga. Then he would have a reason to want to reach out to the audiences he's alienated.

 

But even then, it's a long shot. If he didn't care about those audiences while the manga was actively going on, I don't see him suddenly caring about them after the story is over. Same goes for the story — if he didn't care enough to make it right the first time around, I don't see him admitting his mistakes after the fact. (And if the fault lies with someone else (his editors, SP, etc.) then it'd really be a long shot for him to come out against them. And like I said, if he wouldn't stand up to them when his story was on the line, it's only that much more unlikely for him to care after the fact.)



#30 Narufan85

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 05:26 PM

This is honestly really hard for me to say, I mean already I'm caring less and less about the series and where it goes, but I still check from time to time. If Kishi did come out with some explanation that pointed to him having to change his ending then I'd have closure, but chapter 700,The Last, and Burrito and his kid sister whats her face, would always exists and no explanation or apology could make those abominations disappear from existence. So I guess I'd listen to what he'd have to say but after that I'd still have a bad taste in my mouth. In a sense Kishi should have never put any of us in this position to begin with. I not once thought that I'd look at him or Naruto with disgust, but here we are. So yeah if he had something to say I guess I'd listen, officially close that chapter of my life, and move on, but it will always hurt, and it's because of that that I can't forgive him.

 

This is very much how I feel. I stick around here because this community is a lot of fun. I have a few fics that I still follow largely because of inertia, but my overall interest is really gone. Even if Kishi came out and made some statement, it wouldn't undue 699 and 700. It wouldn't undue 693. It wouldn't make his awful, misogynistic interviews disappear.



#31 narusaku256

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 05:50 PM

It hurts....even now. Seeing the one I used to adore and idealize....teared and blown apart right infront of me. I'd still.forgive him....not for him...not for anyone....not for me....but because if the pre 698 Naruto would've been.here....he'd do the same thing....

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#32 Windking

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 09:47 PM

I've really havent talked about the subject much since the ending, just my Naruhina friends all laughing at me cause they all thought I was delusional. The one thing I do truley appreciate about this site is that people saw all the things I did. That Im not only one whos crazy. :P When I first read the manga when I was in 7th grade (Im 24 now) I was no way at all a narusaku supporter I thought. "Oh hey hinata likes him im sure they will end up together."

 

But as time moved on  and as I got older (plus understanding woment a bit more lol) And I saw the promise of a lifetime line and I thought. Wow he really does love her and hes doing all for her. The one thing I stood by this whole time is the character development between the two that went on to the point where, one would think "this is going to really happen." And then the reveal of Naurtos mom? The Parrallels? It Still hurts to talk about it every now and again I try to forget naruto despite how I grew up with it and that How happy i was Naruto was Hokage but the execution of it was just. Terrible... :/ But I Digress.

 

Would I forgive Kishi? As a Naruto Fan no. As a Person, yes if he were to truly come clean and admit that Money or w.e played a part in the outcome of the ending. But I've always wondered and I scoured 2ch for info but came up empty handed. And maybe it was anwsered here, but how was the general reaction in Japan about the pairings? I remember that Sakura was a favorite and I know Hinata was somewhat of a favorite here a few years back. Do you guys know?


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#33 QRed

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 11:08 PM

I guess I will. I mean, why not? 

 

Most likely however, when he do come out to apologize, Naruto would be history to me. 

 

Plus, I doubt he will come out and admit it. Dunno. I'm not him.



#34 Nate River

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 03:26 AM

I think forgive is too strong a word. I don't care enough to 'forgive' him. And I don't see him making any mea culpas unless he continues on and creates a new manga. Then he would have a reason to want to reach out to the audiences he's alienated.

 

But even then, it's a long shot. If he didn't care about those audiences while the manga was actively going on, I don't see him suddenly caring about them after the story is over. Same goes for the story — if he didn't care enough to make it right the first time around, I don't see him admitting his mistakes after the fact. (And if the fault lies with someone else (his editors, SP, etc.) then it'd really be a long shot for him to come out against them. And like I said, if he wouldn't stand up to them when his story was on the line, it's only that much more unlikely for him to care after the fact.)

 

 

That's where I am.

 

I can't imagine I will care if he ever does. It's not even necessary. He wrote crap. I said so. As far as the series goes, it's done. Nothing to forgive. I'd probably think less of him if he tried to back track now. They've decided to own, so own it. 

 

The biggest reason would obviously be time. It's hard for me to believe I'll still care enough about the whole matter years down the line, let alone enough to think forgiveness was an issue for either side. And even if I did, simply saying I screwed up the pairings only addresses one issue. The ending was bad for reasons that go beyond the pairings. Saying it'd have been NS doesn't make those go away. It doesn't fix the complete train wreck the latter half of part 2 became.

 

In addition, his handlers were asses.People aren't going to forget what kittens they were. For those that still care, I'd expect their memories to be long. Besides, given their attitude, what could he say that'd convince people it was sincere rather than a half-hearted attempt to rescue a portion of the fanbase they effectively told to kitten-off? If I am on their end, why would I think it'd succeed after what's I'd done? Seems to be a waste of time.

 

I agree that I cannot see it happening. This isn't Harry Potter where Rowling choose the ending on her own. If people are correct about interference (regardless of Kishi's complicity) then i I don't expect him to go out  whizz all over those people, especially if wants to publish anything else. 

 

He's picked his path. 



#35 Moon_Girl

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:41 AM

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Read. 

 

If this is true, then all I can really say is that I'm not surprised. I mean the editors were rude as h*ll after the ending came out anyway. And this still doesn't excuse the fact that chapter 700 and The Last exists.

 

If this really is true, as another had said, the mention of Sakura being the heroine and not Hinata in Kishimoto's interview after her confession, makes a whole crap ton of sense.

 

"You say Hinata, Hinata, I say she’s not Hinata..."

 

It could have been his stance on rebelling against those who pressured him. If only he held his ground. Nobody gets remembered well for caving into the fan's desires. Great writers are remembered well and loved for writing their OWN story. Not what the fans want. They have no right and no part of it's growth and writing.

 

I can believe that there are rude and stupid editors. I also believe that NH fans -would- do this. I have encountered so many nasty ones in my 10+ years of being a fan of the series...I seriously can believe this. But if this is true, then I am so angry, words cannot express. Anger at editors, anger at SP, anger at the fuggin' HINATARDS and extreme disappointment that Kishimoto did not fight to protect his story, his ending, his heroine.

It appears that Kishimoto simply caved in, gave up and stopped caring about it. That's why the ending sucks. That's why Hinata gets undeserved spotlight. That's why there's so many mistakes. That's why Kishimoto's interviews contradict each other. Surely you wouldn't want to look like a wimp that was bullied into something you didn't plan or want. Even so, he needs to own up to his mistakes. After all, he stabbed many fans through the heart and wasted thousands, possibly millions, of fans' time with this series.

Whether it was a destroyed childhood hero, a destroyed faith, or a destroyed ray of light that some found happiness in, he hurt people. Who trusted him. Apathy can hurt others.


Edited by Moon_Girl, 20 February 2015 - 10:42 AM.

NaruSaku will always be better than crack and fan fiction
 

#36 archangel

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:59 AM

I'd like the closure, but IDK if I can forgive him, an TRUE ENDING WOULD HELP, not just in pairing but as a whole. They were much that was needed to be discuss. Does anyone were satisfy to see Naruto just being Hokage, without the glory, the celebration or something. Pairing happening for the sake of part 3. I mean yeah, if he wants me to consider forgiving him, he has to say that 699-700 never happen this way and that part 3 doesn't exist. Yep, maybe with a true ending, I might forgive him.

 

Because even if he lie, come out and saying that he has lose control and just plain give in to pierrot or whoever, will hurt his credibility anyway( true or not after all those interview he did) Though I can't believe he was this retarted to say some of those thing, I believe that somehow he wish part3 flop an that was his way to sabotage it.

 

Well only time will tell.



#37 Otaru

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 07:30 PM

I expect something like this to happen . I think he was stuck and forced to end it all like that. I totally expect him to say one day that he originally wanted to end it with NaruSaku.

And I will enjoy it so much.

Because the 'victory' will be more bitter and uncomfortable to all NaruHina fans.
I'm sad about all this, but I'm totally at peace with what I know is the truth.
Kishimoto wanted NaruSaku. And The editor and Studio Pierrot, not. End of story.

 


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#38 tricksie

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 08:59 PM

 

 

In addition, his handlers were asses.People aren't going to forget what dicks they were. For those that still care, I'd expect their memories to be long. Besides, given their attitude, what could he say that'd convince people it was sincere rather than a half-hearted attempt to rescue a portion of the fanbase they effectively told to fuck-off? If I am on their end, why would I think it'd succeed after what's I'd done? Seems to be a waste of time.

 

I agree that I cannot see it happening. This isn't Harry Potter where Rowling choose the ending on her own. If people are correct about interference (regardless of Kishi's complicity) then i I don't expect him to go out  whizz all over those people, especially if wants to publish anything else. 

 

He's picked his path. 

 

Yes, Kishimoto might have been able to come out of this without egg on his face, but those around him made sure he went down with the ship. I still think he tried to convey his trademark vagueness in the manga till the end, what with 'The Real End' chapter and the ambiguous pairing/children panels at the end. And I think if Kishimoto had had his druthers, he would've ended the whole thing without a true pairing but with the hint of NS (like in the gutsy ninja), or with the wacko ending we got only undercut by the possibility that it was truly Obito's dream jutsu (like in Chatte's excellent theory). Even Kishimoto's contradictory statements in the publicity afterwards could've supported it his tendency to be ultra-vague.

 

But his handlers did drive the nails in the coffin. Instead of using the finesse that Kishimoto has admittedly always had for walking the line between stated fact and implication, his publicity crew trampled over any hope of an open ending by declaring Hinata the Hime and every interaction with Sakura to be a ruse or a misdirect, the fault of the reader or even an outright lie (Naruto's words to Minato).

 

And Kishimoto just seemed to be apathetic witness in the last hurrah of his series. 

 

You're right in comparing this to JK Rowling. She had ownership of her work from start to finish, even though there were many, many hands involved in shaping that story. But no other voices ever drowned her out. However, Kishimoto's statements were one of a cacaphony coming from his camp. They weren't on-message, they weren't inclusive and they weren't set on keeping ALL of the fandom in the fold for another year of profit. They seemed to be aggressively barking down fans who complained about the bait-and-switch. 

 

My honest opinion is that Kishimoto just gave up in the end. All those storylines that went nowhere, that never tied into the endgame (Itachi's lecturing Naruto, Kabuto's flashback and battle with Itachi, Hashirama and Madara's childhood, just to name a few), were obviously just a way to stall the ending of the series until he was given the "all clear" to end it. And then he just did, and slapped the epilogue on, apropos of nothing. I think he just didn't give a sh*t in the end. And looking back, it's obvious that he hadn't cared about the series for a while. It was just on autopilot.

 

And yeah, as for an apology or explanation...well, it would be unexpected to say the least. Kishimoto's got more ground to cover with Naruto, and he knows how to play the game. He'll do what they want. Any creative person who gets as far as Kishimoto has in the money-making world of publicity/publishing knows he has to sell out some part of his vision to collect his check. And that's what he's done. And it's worked this far, he's not going to stop now. 

 

Maybe there will be some explanation when he starts on his next project. A weak bid to assure leary readers that this one won't have a screw-over, bait-and-switch ending like Naruto did. But I'm not holding out hope. And if his next venture is anything like Mario, with its misogynistic overtones, uh...no thanks. I've had enough of that with Naruto.



#39 Pix

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:22 PM

 

If this really is true, as another had said, the mention of Sakura being the heroine and not Hinata in Kishimoto's interview after her confession, makes a whole crap ton of sense.

 

"You say Hinata, Hinata, I say she’s not Hinata..."

 

It could have been his stance on rebelling against those who pressured him. If only he held his ground. Nobody gets remembered well for caving into the fan's desires. Great writers are remembered well and loved for writing their OWN story. Not what the fans want. They have no right and no part of it's growth and writing.

 

I can believe that there are rude and stupid editors. I also believe that NH fans -would- do this. I have encountered so many nasty ones in my 10+ years of being a fan of the series...I seriously can believe this. But if this is true, then I am so angry, words cannot express. Anger at editors, anger at SP, anger at the fuggin' HINATARDS and extreme disappointment that Kishimoto did not fight to protect his story, his ending, his heroine.

It appears that Kishimoto simply caved in, gave up and stopped caring about it. That's why the ending sucks. That's why Hinata gets undeserved spotlight. That's why there's so many mistakes. That's why Kishimoto's interviews contradict each other. Surely you wouldn't want to look like a wimp that was bullied into something you didn't plan or want. Even so, he needs to own up to his mistakes. After all, he stabbed many fans through the heart and wasted thousands, possibly millions, of fans' time with this series.

Whether it was a destroyed childhood hero, a destroyed faith, or a destroyed ray of light that some found happiness in, he hurt people. Who trusted him. Apathy can hurt others.

The bolded part- I can argue with that. Korrasami  :hehehe:

 

But yeah what you've said is pretty much on point. At the end of the day, I would have been more content with him leaving Naruto altogether instead of finishing it out the way the editor's would have liked. Speaking of which, I wonder how Katsura Hoshino's doing? Lol.


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#40 Nate River

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 02:43 AM

I expect something like this to happen . I think he was stuck and forced to end it all like that. I totally expect him to say one day that he originally wanted to end it with NaruSaku.

And I will enjoy it so much.

Because the 'victory' will be more bitter and uncomfortable to all NaruHina fans.
I'm sad about all this, but I'm totally at peace with what I know is the truth.
Kishimoto wanted NaruSaku. And The editor and Studio Pierrot, not. End of story.

 

 

Not to burst a bubble, but I imagine they'll say so what? Whatever he intended, NH is what he did. And they can always play it off as trying to placate angry fans. I'll certainly see it way.






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