31579 replies to this topic

[totherpage95]

The Last is pure kitten festa.
 
You know what was the thing with the scarf? We had the Kushina / Sakura parallel. So anything remotely similar in symbolism with that had to be thrown down the drain because well, we cannot have anything REMOTELY close to that parallel. 
 
I think that's the subtlety of that message, if you ask me.

i believe kishi said the last is about kushina and naruto parting (he said this in an interview and while working on the last he also insisted on sakura and naruto parting too) so because she represents sakura she also is a casualty in the quest to remove anything that would take naruto from hinata

Edited by totherpage95, 21 September 2020 - 04:18 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

i believe kishi said the last is about kushina and naruto parting (he said this in an interview and while working on the last he also insisted on sakura and naruto parting too) so because she represents sakura she also is a casualty in the quest to remove anything that would take naruto from hinata

 

Sadly, that makes a lot of sense, given even MINATO said Kushina and Sakura are quite alike

[Chatte]

i believe kishi said the last is about kushina and naruto parting (he said this in an interview and while working on the last he also insisted on sakura and naruto parting too) so because she represents sakura she also is a casualty in the quest to remove anything that would take naruto from hinata

Oh I didn't know about the Kushina part, but I did know about the whole Naruto and Sakura parting. 

Which is such a stupid idea anyway... cuz... okay, have them not be in a relationship. But why you have to destroy the friendship as well? Is it THAT threatening?

 

I swear Kishimoto just makes me facepalm sometimes.

 

I wonder what kind of contract he had with SP/Shonen Jump to make him go against his own nature that bad. What were the legal terms, how long is he bind by those terms etc.

 

Cuz otherwise there's NO WAY ON EARTH a man would 'sell out' like this. To the point where you create a disruption in your own household.

 

I don't even want to imagine what his wife felt to be honest. 

 

Because in the end this is a thing of fundamental principles & convictions, you know? And to see the man whom you married basically alluding that you are a terrible person makes you sick to your stomach.

 

I mean he did confirm the Kushina = Sakura parallels and then he says that Sakura would be a terrible woman if she moved on from Sasuke to Naruto. OH REALLY? Since when? In what kind of skewed world?

 

I sometimes can't with him, I swear...

 

In a way I do understand that because of editors and western fanbase he was pushed into this and had no choice, and in this respect I feel for him, very badly. I don't even want to imagine how it was.

 

But at the same time, when my fundamental convictions and principles come into play and situations like this attack that very thing, I don't know man, I would've put a stop then and there. All up to that.

 

Not to mention market wise a totally open end would've been okay for everyone. I still don't understand WHY they didn't do that. Because this way his reputation would've stayed somewhat okay - i mean, in the end we could've gone past some plot holes, and everybody would've been somewaht happy. No one really got what they wanted (pairings canon), but they did at the same time (open end that leaves it all up to imagination).

 

It's just baffling me. Because I myself worked in marketing. And marketing works hand in hand with sales, so I have an idea or two about how these things are going.

 

They could've easily done an A/B testing situation. See the reception to any of those and THEN decide which route to go.

 

But instead no. They chose one version, stuck with it, only to explode back at them and leave this series nothing but an empty vessel.

 

No wonder Boruto is all about vessels now.

 

Because the very essence of the characters has been wiped out in order for those editors that fantasized about all kinds of stuff to pour out their own fantasies in these new empty vessels.

 

Man, I swear, Yahagi was THE MAN of this. His participation in this is what made Naruto what it was.

 

As soon as he left, things turned to kitten truth be told.

 

 

I will laugh so hard if Kishi comes out one day to say that he hates the ending and was forced by SP to do this stupid ending.

 

I mean, I know this will never happen, but I can dream it, I can dream it, and I do, and in my dreams, it is sweet, but it's also like James said, we have Fanfiction to do our own NaruSaku stories, I know I will keep doing them.

Sadly I don't think he has the guts to do so. He isn't that gutsy as his main character, sadly. Otherwise we wouldn't have been in this situation.

 

It would be gold tho. Imagine the kitten fest following thereafter. And i'd be interesting to see the reception of that, truth be told.

 

I wonder if how this would affect his reputation as a mangaka. Because right now it's sketchy and his name doesn't hold weight anymore.

 

If it would've done so, his other manga wouldn't have flopped and Boruto would have at least the reception Naruto had. But instead NOPE.

 

So that' be interesting to see.

 

As for fanfictions, truth be told, I'm happy we're out of the bonds of canon. We can play free with our imagination as of right now. 

 

It's because of this that I'm not plotting two fanfics - one after the war and one long after Shinachiku's generation. As in basically Shina/Hanami's kids with Arashi as a main character.

 

And it's nice not being bound by canon and basically get to use all my ideas about Sakura there. Because OH I'M SO gonna have her get some MF power-ups. 

 

So yeah, screw you canon. Don't even need you anyway. I'm so much happier in fanon.

Edited by Chatte, 21 September 2020 - 09:26 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Oh I didn't know about the Kushina part, but I did know about the whole Naruto and Sakura parting. 

Which is such a stupid idea anyway... cuz... okay, have them not be in a relationship. But why you have to destroy the friendship as well? Is it THAT threatening?

 

I swear Kishimoto just makes me facepalm sometimes.

 

I wonder what kind of contract he had with SP/Shonen Jump to make him go against his own nature that bad. What were the legal terms, how long is he bind by those terms etc.

 

Cuz otherwise there's NO WAY ON EARTH a man would 'sell out' like this. To the point where you create a disruption in your own household.

 

I don't even want to imagine what his wife felt to be honest. 

 

Because in the end this is a thing of fundamental principles & convictions, you know? And to see the man whom you married basically alluding that you are a terrible person makes you sick to your stomach.

 

I mean he did confirm the Kushina = Sakura parallels and then he says that Sakura would be a terrible woman if she moved on from Sasuke to Naruto. OH REALLY? Since when? In what kind of skewed world?

 

I sometimes can't with him, I swear...

 

In a way I do understand that because of editors and western fanbase he was pushed into this and had no choice, and in this respect I feel for him, very badly. I don't even want to imagine how it was.

 

But at the same time, when my fundamental convictions and principles come into play and situations like this attack that very thing, I don't know man, I would've put a stop then and there. All up to that.

 

Not to mention market wise a totally open end would've been okay for everyone. I still don't understand WHY they didn't do that. Because this way his reputation would've stayed somewhat okay - i mean, in the end we could've gone past some plot holes, and everybody would've been somewaht happy. No one really got what they wanted (pairings canon), but they did at the same time (open end that leaves it all up to imagination).

 

It's just baffling me. Because I myself worked in marketing. And marketing works hand in hand with sales, so I have an idea or two about how these things are going.

 

They could've easily done an A/B testing situation. See the reception to any of those and THEN decide which route to go.

 

But instead no. They chose one version, stuck with it, only to explode back at them and leave this series nothing but an empty vessel.

 

No wonder Boruto is all about vessels now.

 

Because the very essence of the characters has been wiped out in order for those editors that fantasized about all kinds of stuff to pour out their own fantasies in these new empty vessels.

 

Man, I swear, Yahagi was THE MAN of this. His participation in this is what made Naruto what it was.

 

As soon as he left, things turned to kitten truth be told.

 

 

Sadly I don't think he has the guts to do so. He isn't that gutsy as his main character, sadly. Otherwise we wouldn't have been in this situation.

 

It would be gold tho. Imagine the kitten fest following thereafter. And i'd be interesting to see the reception of that, truth be told.

 

I wonder if how this would affect his reputation as a mangaka. Because right now it's sketchy and his name doesn't hold weight anymore.

 

If it would've done so, his other manga wouldn't have flopped and Boruto would have at least the reception Naruto had. But instead NOPE.

 

So that' be interesting to see.

 

As for fanfictions, truth be told, I'm happy we're out of the bonds of canon. We can play free with our imagination as of right now. 

 

It's because of this that I'm not plotting two fanfics - one after the war and one long after Shinachiku's generation. As in basically Shina/Hanami's kids with Arashi as a main character.

 

And it's nice not being bound by canon and basically get to use all my ideas about Sakura there. Because OH I'M SO gonna have her get some MF power-ups. 

 

So yeah, screw you canon. Don't even need you anyway. I'm so much happier in fanon.

Since we don't know why kishi did it other then guessing and taking him at his word in some interviews. Here are two options.

 

He was gas-lighted for years into being convinced that the fans (outside of the Japanese because he actually interacted with some of them) hated Sakura and wanted Hinata to be the love interest. After his father died I think he had a midlife crisis of some sort; he had spent almost every week for the last 14 years working on a manga instead of spending time with his family. So, he wanted Naruto to end.

 

So, on one hand you have a guy that wants to reward his fans for sticking with him for so many years by giving them what they wanted.

 

On the other? The executives did not want Naruto to end because it was their big international seller at the time. SP and his assistants were offering a continuation of the money making and restoration of Naruto's golden years of international success with nH. Kishimoto was only offering an end with NS. What do you think they want?

 

Either way once he said 'yes' once, he could never say 'no' again because the gears of the corporate machine were at work making way for Boruto. At first he went along with the ending because either he had no choice or because he was convince it what the fans wanted. So, he said what he thought the fans of the series wanted him to say, pro nH/SS anti NS, because clearly that want his fans wanted. Then the backlash happened. He realized he got had became bitter about it. He still says what he is required to say but noting more.

 

Then you have his latest manga that had ten chapter that were pretty much him saying to his editors, "this is the love interest, this is the end pairing for this manga, and I am not changing it; no matter what you tell me."

 

The thing is if he came out a revealed he did not support nH or Boruto it would be stabbing the people working on it in the back. That will get him blacklisted faster then anything else.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 21 September 2020 - 11:04 AM.

[Phantom_999]

What is the most insulting aspect of all this kitten is that Hianta could only be brought up on a pedestal after having the pedestal of every other major character come crashing down. What many are insulted by was that for Hinata to get the position as "love interest" and "Heroine" is that every other major character had to become a mindless supporter of her and had to be transformed into facimile shadows of their actual characters, that constanlty beat Nardo over the head that he is meant to fall in love with Hinata until he is worn down and brainwashed into accepting it as fact and truth. And again the exuse of all Hinata cultists, including the ones in Shueisha and Studio Pierrot is "Naruto is not a romance manga". but the movie that makes NH official comes across as a VERY CRINGING half@$$ed shojo fanfic. Go figure.  

 

 

I will laugh so hard if Kishi comes out one day to say that he hates the ending and was forced by SP to do this stupid ending.

 

I mean, I know this will never happen, but I can dream it, I can dream it, and I do, and in my dreams, it is sweet, but it's also like James said, we have Fanfiction to do our own NaruSaku stories, I know I will keep doing them.

 

Even if he did, it is inconsequental. The damage is done and any attempt at a series reboot will have a MAJOR UPHILL struggle for it to win back the vast majority of fans that they pissed off. Remember it was not only NaruSaku fans that were betrayed, it was EVERY FAN that believed in the series and followed it through all the way to the end only to get backstabbed with an ending that is not only unsatisfactory and conntradictory to everything the seires stands for, "The Last" turned out to be nothing but an hour something long wanking off to Hinata. The series' reputation is practically beyond recovery at this point. And even if the truth were brought to the light, who would it help? fans that were disgusted by the ending have long since moved on more or less and NH hierophants wound only rain hell down on NS fans and curse that it is all our fault and would cause a huge uproar wihin online community. No one would win in that situation. No one. And even if NaruSaku was made in an alternate ending would any NaruSaku REALLY be satisfied with that? To have Narusaku as a second place apology prize, like how many say that that is what moving to Hianta would feel like if there was no developing relationship between her and Naruto in the story?

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 November 2020 - 03:30 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I'm not sure an open end in terms of pairings would of solved the entire end for some people given how intense the shipping war was for naruto

[Bail o' Lies]

I'm not sure an open end in terms of pairings would of solved the entire end for some people given how intense the shipping war was for naruto

Oh, it would likely not have ended the war in the fandom, but it would have left the impression Kishimoto didn't even pay attention to it. Which would have help the franchise.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 21 September 2020 - 08:25 PM.

[Phantom_999]

I'm not sure an open end in terms of pairings would of solved the entire end for some people given how intense the shipping war was for naruto

 

If NaruSaku was a no go I acutally would have preferred that as an alternative. Nobody wins but nobaody loses and can make up whatever they want. The ultimate problem with the pairings was not who ended up with who, it was the execution. 

Edited by Phantom_999, 28 September 2020 - 08:04 PM.

[Namaenash]

Oh I didn't know about the Kushina part, but I did know about the whole Naruto and Sakura parting. 

Which is such a stupid idea anyway... cuz... okay, have them not be in a relationship. But why you have to destroy the friendship as well? Is it THAT threatening?

 

I swear Kishimoto just makes me facepalm sometimes.

 

I wonder what kind of contract he had with SP/Shonen Jump to make him go against his own nature that bad. What were the legal terms, how long is he bind by those terms etc.

 

Cuz otherwise there's NO WAY ON EARTH a man would 'sell out' like this. To the point where you create a disruption in your own household.

 

I don't even want to imagine what his wife felt to be honest. 

 

Because in the end this is a thing of fundamental principles & convictions, you know? And to see the man whom you married basically alluding that you are a terrible person makes you sick to your stomach.

 

I mean he did confirm the Kushina = Sakura parallels and then he says that Sakura would be a terrible woman if she moved on from Sasuke to Naruto. OH REALLY? Since when? In what kind of skewed world?

 

I sometimes can't with him, I swear...

 

In a way I do understand that because of editors and western fanbase he was pushed into this and had no choice, and in this respect I feel for him, very badly. I don't even want to imagine how it was.

 

But at the same time, when my fundamental convictions and principles come into play and situations like this attack that very thing, I don't know man, I would've put a stop then and there. All up to that.

 

Not to mention market wise a totally open end would've been okay for everyone. I still don't understand WHY they didn't do that. Because this way his reputation would've stayed somewhat okay - i mean, in the end we could've gone past some plot holes, and everybody would've been somewaht happy. No one really got what they wanted (pairings canon), but they did at the same time (open end that leaves it all up to imagination).

 

It's just baffling me. Because I myself worked in marketing. And marketing works hand in hand with sales, so I have an idea or two about how these things are going.

 

They could've easily done an A/B testing situation. See the reception to any of those and THEN decide which route to go.

 

But instead no. They chose one version, stuck with it, only to explode back at them and leave this series nothing but an empty vessel.

 

No wonder Boruto is all about vessels now.

 

Because the very essence of the characters has been wiped out in order for those editors that fantasized about all kinds of stuff to pour out their own fantasies in these new empty vessels.

 

Man, I swear, Yahagi was THE MAN of this. His participation in this is what made Naruto what it was.

 

As soon as he left, things turned to kitten truth be told.

 

 

Sadly I don't think he has the guts to do so. He isn't that gutsy as his main character, sadly. Otherwise we wouldn't have been in this situation.

 

It would be gold tho. Imagine the kitten fest following thereafter. And i'd be interesting to see the reception of that, truth be told.

 

I wonder if how this would affect his reputation as a mangaka. Because right now it's sketchy and his name doesn't hold weight anymore.

 

If it would've done so, his other manga wouldn't have flopped and Boruto would have at least the reception Naruto had. But instead NOPE.

 

So that' be interesting to see.

 

As for fanfictions, truth be told, I'm happy we're out of the bonds of canon. We can play free with our imagination as of right now. 

 

It's because of this that I'm not plotting two fanfics - one after the war and one long after Shinachiku's generation. As in basically Shina/Hanami's kids with Arashi as a main character.

 

And it's nice not being bound by canon and basically get to use all my ideas about Sakura there. Because OH I'M SO gonna have her get some MF power-ups. 

 

So yeah, screw you canon. Don't even need you anyway. I'm so much happier in fanon.

 

 

I don't think there's such contract or agreement made with anime studio. It is industry knowledge that anime in Japan does not bring that much money, but it's needed to sell other media form (such as video games, merchandise, etc).

 

 

To give you context, have a look at the highest grossing media franchise one put in wikipedia here

 

In summary for Naruto franchise, which is estimated to worth ~USD 10.4 billion

• Manga magazine – $6.53 billion
• Manga volumes – $1.637 billion
• Licensed merchandise – $1.27 billion
• Video games – $761 million
• Home entertainment – $254 million
• Anime box office – $147.1 million

 

Look at the breakdown above. Manga alone combined brings in ~USD 8.1 billion. That's huge btw, and it rhymes with the fact that Naruto series overall has sold more than 200 million copies, etc. That's about 80% of franchise worth.

 

Now, on the flipside, look at Naruto's value from anime movie and TV (what they called as 'Home entertainment). Combined together, both is merely ~4% of total franchise value. 

 

It is impossible, from financial perspective alone, that anime folks or SP have too much to say in the direction of the franchise. They don't have that much stake. 

 

So, I still hold on to my initial judgement that there's a bias involved in making NH/SS canon. That bias pretty much killed the franchise. So much so that Naruto manga that brought USD 8 billion in the duration of 1999-2014 has not even managed to sell 150k of copies with the latest volume of Boruto.

 

Have you guys realized that there's never an arc, be it in anime or manga that's fully focusing on Hinata/NH or SS after the ending? The producer realized they just killed one of their most profitable franchise.

 

So, when Kishimoto came to SWJ that he's planning to create "Samurai 8", of course he got a lot of help. This guy brings in ~$8 billion worth of value to the company, therefore, pouring in marketing budget to promote Samurai 8 is not a problem at all. It's featured everywhere back then. Kishi also confidently told the news that he's planning to make "10 volumes or more", while adding "I remember saying one time that Naruto would be 15 volumes. It always ends up being longer."

 

Well, Kishi, I got a little news for you. You no longer have loyal readers following you, thanks to what you did with Naruto franchise (and killing NS was probably the final nail to the coffin). If you asked me, Samurai 8 wasn't that bad. It's decent manga at best. There's nothing wrong with the story. People can always nitpick on certain deficiency. There's a lot of decent manga out there that survives long enough. The main problem is this: Kishimoto name is on it --this makes people stay away; and SWJ only realised this when almost nobody buy the manga.

Edited by Namaenash, 22 September 2020 - 12:26 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Well, Kishi, I got a little news for you. You no longer have loyal readers following you, thanks to what you did with Naruto franchise (and killing NS was probably the final nail to the coffin). If you asked me, Samurai 8 wasn't that bad. It's decent manga at best. There's nothing wrong with the story. People can always nitpick on certain deficiency. There's a lot of decent manga out there that survives long enough. The main problem is this: Kishimoto name is on it --this makes people stay away; and SWJ only realised this when almost nobody buy the manga.

 

Sad reality of it is besides Kishimoto not having the balls to say NO to Shueisha and Studio Pierrot, they're just as much to blame for Naruto and what happened to it as well as other aspects that've made people leery of him which led to  Samurai 8 failing as it did. But hey, that's what happens when you mess with something that had been fine as is.

[James S Cassidy]

 

One thing I'd also say we NaruSaku fans have over SS and NH fans is unlike them we generally tend to get along with other shipping fandoms in the Naruto community, be it SasuKarin, ShikaTem, Shikaino, inosai, Leeten, Nejiten, Nejihina, Kibihina and even Narusasu fans. We don't make alliances because they are convenient to our ship we get along with them because we either ship them ourselves or respect why they ship them and if we don't agree with the ship or ven like one of the characters we just leave the shippers be.

True. So true, in fact, that the NH and SS have alienated themselves so much that they pushed all the other fandoms to support each other.

Even SNS fans would say that if it had to be a heteropairing, then NaruSaku and SasuKarin are the way to go.

I have never seen a fandom so bad that the only way they can prove their worth is by degrading every other character in the series. They don't raise their characters up, they lower the bar for every other character.

Hinata is by far the MOST OVERRATED anime girl of all time.

[Moon_Girl]

Honestly, I wish Kishimoto would just come out with the truth. He has nothing to lose anymore. He pissed off Naruto fans beyond redemption for the series and even Burrito has to use Naruto nostalgia to try and stay afloat. Burrito isn't even 1/700th as popular as Naruto was, therefore a huge failure. 
Heck, even Kishimoto's attempt to move on and make another manga flopped. His name no longer holds weight. He didn't turn into the next Toriyama he could have been and likely wished to be considering how much he adored Toriyama. 

All he did was please the fans who don't pay for the series/pirate everything and have nothing better to do than to wank to Hinatatas and fight people online who say otherwise and the tumblr fans who think Sakura getting together with a man who barely cares about is powerful and true love.

He gained nothing and lost everything. I think I could finally be at peace with how everything turned out if Kishimoto had the guts to admit everything. If it ever happens, it likely wouldn't happen until Studio Pierrot's greedy, fat, greasy fingers release the franchise. 

[Chatte]

 

 

I don't think there's such contract or agreement made with anime studio. It is industry knowledge that anime in Japan does not bring that much money, but it's needed to sell other media form (such as video games, merchandise, etc).

 

 

To give you context, have a look at the highest grossing media franchise one put in wikipedia here

 

In summary for Naruto franchise, which is estimated to worth ~USD 10.4 billion

• Manga magazine – $6.53 billion
• Manga volumes – $1.637 billion
• Licensed merchandise – $1.27 billion
• Video games – $761 million
• Home entertainment – $254 million
• Anime box office – $147.1 million

 

Look at the breakdown above. Manga alone combined brings in ~USD 8.1 billion. That's huge btw, and it rhymes with the fact that Naruto series overall has sold more than 200 million copies, etc. That's about 80% of franchise worth.

 

Now, on the flipside, look at Naruto's value from anime movie and TV (what they called as 'Home entertainment). Combined together, both is merely ~4% of total franchise value. 

 

It is impossible, from financial perspective alone, that anime folks or SP have too much to say in the direction of the franchise. They don't have that much stake. 

 

So, I still hold on to my initial judgement that there's a bias involved in making NH/SS canon. That bias pretty much killed the franchise. So much so that Naruto manga that brought USD 8 billion in the duration of 1999-2014 has not even managed to sell 150k of copies with the latest volume of Boruto.

 

Have you guys realized that there's never an arc, be it in anime or manga that's fully focusing on Hinata/NH or SS after the ending? The producer realized they just killed one of their most profitable franchise.

 

So, when Kishimoto came to SWJ that he's planning to create "Samurai 8", of course he got a lot of help. This guy brings in ~$8 billion worth of value to the company, therefore, pouring in marketing budget to promote Samurai 8 is not a problem at all. It's featured everywhere back then. Kishi also confidently told the news that he's planning to make "10 volumes or more", while adding "I remember saying one time that Naruto would be 15 volumes. It always ends up being longer."

 

Well, Kishi, I got a little news for you. You no longer have loyal readers following you, thanks to what you did with Naruto franchise (and killing NS was probably the final nail to the coffin). If you asked me, Samurai 8 wasn't that bad. It's decent manga at best. There's nothing wrong with the story. People can always nitpick on certain deficiency. There's a lot of decent manga out there that survives long enough. The main problem is this: Kishimoto name is on it --this makes people stay away; and SWJ only realised this when almost nobody buy the manga.

 

Ooh, I love you and how you break down these things! It's really insightful.

 

That's why I put SP/Shonen Jump there, because I wasn't exactly sure of the contracts and deals they do over there and how they do it, which brings which and whatnot.

 

But I'm glad you expressed it so nicely and laid out to understand.

 

But yeah, I totally agree with you on the Kishimoto name thing. 

 

I may not know a lot about statistics - that was my least favorite part when working in marketing, however, marketing is a close sister to branding and both of them speak through one language - sales.

 

We have a saying here in Romania - the mouth that doesn't tell a story won't get food.

 

Now to me this was really clear. He told a story, but by the virtue of branding's functionality, you have to tell a GOOD story, not just ANY story. 

 

And Kishimoto started strongly and very good actually. This story had the potential to be one of the greatest ever told, especially in the context of the times we lived back then and do right now.

 

I'm actually rereading the manga because I am doing a NaruSaku symbolism series within the story of Naruto. So I have to basically go over and over and over again through it to reread it so I can show the context of all my analysis and whatnot.

 

And I still get the chills, even years later, at some parts of it.

 

But the end? It's just cringe. It kills you. From the filled with emotion and strong messages to absolutely killing it it's just... hard to bear.

 

So Kishi not only killed the story, but like I said, he also killed himself as a brand. And that's clearly seen in the reception in sales the continuation of the story has.

 

Sometimes I wonder what would Naruto have been if he were let to actually do the story his own way. But alas, it is what it is.

 

Although it's gonna sound pretty petty, I'm glad that it's kind of biting him in the ass, excuse my language.

 

This should be a major lesson to him.

 

And I wonder if he's ever planning to be back as a mangaka ever again... Cuz like, how many time has passed since Samurai 8 flopped?

 

I haven't read it so I don't know much about it. 

 

I made a promise at the end of Naruto. That if he ends the story somewhat okay (because it was logical that it wasn't gonna ever be 100% okay), I'm going to buy all the volumes, all the movies and everything I can find with Naruto.

 

But if not, I won't do it and I won't ever support him as an author.

 

That's why I have so  little knowledge on the matter of Samurai 8. 

 

However, for continuity purposes I have been reading about Boruto stuff, because I am curious how they deal with it. And I've read on Reddit how awful it's doing.

 

Of course, some say it's no. 1 read manga on idk what apps and whatnot. But when it comes to the actual numbers, it's waaay below Naruto from ANY point of view.

[Bail o' Lies]

I don't think there's such contract or agreement made with anime studio. It is industry knowledge that anime in Japan does not bring that much money, but it's needed to sell other media form (such as video games, merchandise, etc).

 

To give you context, have a look at the highest grossing media franchise one put in wikipedia here

 

In summary for Naruto franchise, which is estimated to worth ~USD 10.4 billion

• Manga magazine – $6.53 billion
• Manga volumes – $1.637 billion
• Licensed merchandise – $1.27 billion
• Video games – $761 million
• Home entertainment – $254 million
• Anime box office – $147.1 million

 

Look at the breakdown above. Manga alone combined brings in ~USD 8.1 billion. That's huge btw, and it rhymes with the fact that Naruto series overall has sold more than 200 million copies, etc. That's about 80% of franchise worth.

 

Now, on the flip-side, look at Naruto's value from anime movie and TV (what they called as 'Home entertainment). Combined together, both is merely ~4% of total franchise value. 

 

It is impossible, from financial perspective alone, that anime folks or SP have too much to say in the direction of the franchise. They don't have that much stake. 

 

So, I still hold on to my initial judgement that there's a bias involved in making NH/SS canon. That bias pretty much killed the franchise. So much so that Naruto manga that brought USD 8 billion in the duration of 1999-2014 has not even managed to sell 150k of copies with the latest volume of Boruto.

 

Have you guys realized that there's never an arc, be it in anime or manga that's fully focusing on Hinata/NH or SS after the ending? The producer realized they just killed one of their most profitable franchise.

 

So, when Kishimoto came to SWJ that he's planning to create "Samurai 8", of course he got a lot of help. This guy brings in ~$8 billion worth of value to the company, therefore, pouring in marketing budget to promote Samurai 8 is not a problem at all. It's featured everywhere back then. Kishi also confidently told the news that he's planning to make "10 volumes or more", while adding "I remember saying one time that Naruto would be 15 volumes. It always ends up being longer."

 

Well, Kishi, I got a little news for you. You no longer have loyal readers following you, thanks to what you did with Naruto franchise (and killing NS was probably the final nail to the coffin). If you asked me, Samurai 8 wasn't that bad. It's decent manga at best. There's nothing wrong with the story. People can always nitpick on certain deficiency. There's a lot of decent manga out there that survives long enough. The main problem is this: Kishimoto name is on it --this makes people stay away; and SWJ only realized this when almost nobody buy the manga.

Anime are likely like what Movies are to franchise in the West. Status symbols and a show of confidence that your product is a big hit and will be a bigger one if more people saw it. When a WSJ manga gets an anime it normally means 'its here to stay,' especially when it continuous on-going one. If it last a few seasons it starts getting games as well as movies. When it ends, it is normally a sign the manga is going to be cancelled soon or is on it last leg.

 

From what I've seen manga become franchise tend to go like this. The author creates a one-shot that is popular. Then if its liked, the magazine buys the IP and the official run starts. If it initially popular but not successful enough for anime yet it will get CD dramas. Then anime the depending on how the studio likes it decides how long they will make the anime a 12 episode series or more. If its given a continuous one and its successful it will be given a video game, if that successful then another. Eventually, a movie will be produce. And also along this train there is more and more merchandise -like pushies and key-chains- being produce with each step. 

 

For Naruto, it initial success as manga led to anime that TV Tokyo was confident enough in to put next to pokemon on their air time; that time-slot became a power house for a decade because of those two. The success of the anime led to games like the ninja storm series and yearly movies. The success of all of these, led to them not wanting the gravy train to end and wanting a sequel to continue the money making. The success of Naruto is why they put boruto in WSJ as a fill in till Kishimoto started his own new manga. But now the manga is an average shounen manga sales wise, and the anime despite it legacy couldn't hold that power hour and had to move around till it landed on sunday and became babies first shounen. Poor sales led to not much being put into a video game that flopped leading to no movies and only mobile game based on both Naruto and Boruto being produced. Also kishi new manga flopped hard despite heavy promotion by WSJ.

 

"Have you guys realized that there's never an arc, be it in anime or manga that's fully focusing on Hinata/NH or SS after the ending?" ...Really, not even the wedding arc and the ending of anime?

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 24 September 2020 - 08:23 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

"Have you guys realized that there's never an arc, be it in anime or manga that's fully focusing on Hinata/NH or SS after the ending?" ...Really, not even the wedding arc and the ending of anime?

 

Well, even then, those are just adaptations for "justification".

 

Even in the Boruto anime, all Hinata has been shown is to replace Sakura by having a personality more like Sakura because Studio Pierrot basically has to give that big "**** YOU!!" to Sakura one last time rather than admit they screwed the pooch royally on the ending due to their selfish pursuit along with Shueisha and taking advantage of Kishimoto's exhaustion and grief over his dad's death to push what they wanted. And now they're paying the price with their wallets and ratings.

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 22 September 2020 - 04:58 PM.

[Dalton.T.R]

So... I had an image pop into my head the other day, and for as long as I live I will never be able to unsee this.

 

I was watching Naruto with my girlfriend, it's her first time seeing it, and she was interested in watching it since a lot of my writing is inspired by Naruto.

 

We got to the first attack on the Leaf Village and my girlfriend mentions this: imagine Orochimaru going through his morning routine. Brushing his teeth, humming a song as he looks himself in the mirror while combing his hair, maybe even singing in the shower.... you know the drill.

 

I was about ready to die from laughter when she brought this up. WHO had ever thought about this before?!

 

This is just something I found humurous and had to share lol

[Bail o' Lies]

Isn't the Boruto manga drawn and scripted by completely different people? It's slight, but there's a lot of differences in art style and overall vibes. I skimmed through the manga and it was so different. It definitely didn't have any of the aura/vibes the Naruto manga did. It's quite sad honestly.

The people on it are a former assistant of his as the artist who did the back ground and one of the light novels that helped shotgun out those novels at the end. They both made it clear that they really wanted to do their own thing with the IP instead of continuing Boruto. Which is why the best part of the manga (which are average) are when none of Kishimoto created characters are around.

 

They are no Dragon Ball Super Toyotarou who wants to continue Dragon ball and made his style as close to Akira as he could.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The people on it are a former assistant of his as the artist who did the back ground and one of the light novels that helped shotgun out those novels at the end. They both made it clear that they really wanted to do their own thing with the IP instead of continuing Boruto. Which is why the best part of the manga (which are average) are when none of Kishimoto created characters are around.

 

They are no Dragon Ball Super Toyotarou who wants to continue Dragon ball and made his style as close to Akira as he could.

 

Yeah. It just shows too how the people working on Boruto had no confidence in doing their own thing so they ended up just bumming off another IP that they worked on instead. Even as they show they wanted to do their own thing.

[Phantom_999]

Boruto itself is not even a passion project, it was to milk Naruto for as long as possible. if it was done with ANY sort of care in mind we would be getting a complety different series /product but as it stands..... yeah

[totherpage95]

where's hinata?

Edited by totherpage95, 24 September 2020 - 04:18 PM.