31585 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I meant use it on Sasuke... But that's pretty cool too, honestly.

 

Way I see it, he does it because he WANTS Sasuke to die so he can then take out Itachi as part of his goals in my fanfic, even if he recruits him into the Foundation/Root to do so, and because he also sympathizes with Sasuke on the facts of jealousy and hatred for someone being better than you. In general? A huge oversight to think about for sure.

[DrK]

 

Way I see it, he does it because he WANTS Sasuke to die so he can then take out Itachi as part of his goals in my fanfic, even if he recruits him into the Foundation/Root to do so, and because he also sympathizes with Sasuke on the facts of jealousy and hatred for someone being better than you. In general? A huge oversight to think about for sure.

Yeah... The thing with Sasuke is that no matter how much focus is put on him, he's in the end a REACTIVE character who acts based on things that happen to him. Itachi was the one who was the prototype and the genesis of everything "good" (or at least dramatic in a story) about being an Uchiha.

[Qia]

Yeah... The thing with Sasuke is that no matter how much focus is put on him, he's in the end a REACTIVE character who acts based on things that happen to him. Itachi was the one who was the prototype and the genesis of everything "good" (or at least dramatic in a story) about being an Uchiha.

Honestly, I find him to be more proactive than Naruto in the end of it all, which is kinda sad...and I think an easy solution to him becoming a less reactive character after itachi's death would have been for him to have stuck to the whole destroy konoha idea. That way he's proactively trying to accomplish something and continuing to push the plot forward, except this way being the character that Naruto is forced to decide how to deal with.

Edited by Qia, 21 January 2020 - 12:59 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Honestly, I find him to be more proactive than Naruto in the end of it all, which is kinda sad...and I think an easy solution to him becoming a less reactive character after itachi's death would have been for him to have stuck to the whole destroy konoha idea. That way he's proactively trying to accomplish something and continuing to push the plot forward, except this way being the character that Naruto is forced to decide how to deal with.

 

I know what you mean, Qia. The other irritating thing about that prospect is how Sasuke is so easily willingly or unwittingly manipulated by others to help himself, just showing how it's all he cares about... Itachi manipulating him by trying to get him to see the truth about the Uchiha clan and to "cleanse" it, Orochimaru with the promises of power (for all the good it did Sasuke when he had battles after he "beat" Orochimaru), Obito and the Akatsuki to use him as a pawn while Sasuke claimed he was using them (but he was too arrogant to see the truth)....

[James S Cassidy]

The problem with the light novels is that it doesn't matter if they are canon or not. I shouldn't have to resort to light novels to get developement that should have been in the original source material.

I shouldnt have to chase down kittening books to see things that should have been in the manga and developing things that way alienates a good portion of the audience simply because they dont have access to them.

Even the person who wrote Sakura Retsudan said the novel was not canon because it wasnt written by Kishi.

I agree. You shouldn't need the light novels to explain the main story. The lights novels should only expand it. If you have to use outside sources to explain the main story, then as a writer you're doing it wrong.

That is the problem with Kishimoto...he has this mentality that he can just "explain stuff later in other stories." That's is not how you write a story. The idea is to write the journey, but he was so busy writing destinations because fans told him too and he wanted to avoid doing it.

As for the canon...honestly, "canonical" is so rarely used anymore. Mostly because this new reader ship make their own canon anyway. They accept what they want to accept and don't what they don't.

The Dragonball Z fandom, at least when it comes to Dragonball Super, won't accept certain canon elements because they want it a certain way. The anime says one thing, but the manga says another and Toriyama is working on both. People want to believe Goku can lift so much and do so many things only for the manga to say "he struggles with even a mere fraction of what you say he can do."

Also, there are plenty of moments where the writer says one thing and the publisher says another. It is also very frustrating where canon is concerned that Kishimoto just doesn't care anymore and leaving everyone else to write the canon. Our fanfiction might as well be just as canon at this point.  

 

 

Honestly, I find him to be more proactive than Naruto in the end of it all, which is kinda sad...and I think an easy solution to him becoming a less reactive character after itachi's death would have been for him to have stuck to the whole destroy konoha idea. That way he's proactively trying to accomplish something and continuing to push the plot forward, except this way being the character that Naruto is forced to decide how to deal with.

Sasuke is so reactive that no decision was ever his.

He didn't even get to choose who he had a relationship with.

Seriously, relooking at the series as a whole...Sasuke was pressured to do thing by everyone EXCEPT for Itachi. Naruto wouldn't let him make any decisions, Sakura wouldn't let Sasuke make decisions.

Nothing.
"Sasuke, do you love Sakura?"
Sasuke: "No. I don't really find anything to love about."
"Oh good. You're getting married to her tomorrow"
Sasuke: "Why? I don't even like her. I don't want to be with her."
"One kid or two?"

I have a picture somewhere that shows this.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 21 January 2020 - 09:42 PM.

[Derock]

That is the problem with Kishimoto...he has this mentality that he can just "explain stuff later in other stories." That's is not how you write a story. The idea is to write the journey, but he was so busy writing destinations because fans told him too and he wanted to avoid doing it.

 

That situation just reminded me of a certain ex-writer from Sonic the Hedgehog Archie Comic Book series who currently "trying" to use his creations as his own universe and its failing because of 1) those said characters were  exclusively created and needed for that specific setting at the time and 2) your statement: "explain stuff later in other stories", oh how that ideal is active in his head because he announced this work since 2008 and STILL hasn't release anything: physical and digital! But he's yapping about it on his Twitter account. 

 

I'm not going any detail about it but you guys are welcome to ask me and I will explain it in the best of my ability and I have proof with more information.

[Bail o' Lies]

Honestly, I find him to be more proactive than Naruto in the end of it all, which is kinda sad...and I think an easy solution to him becoming a less reactive character after itachi's death would have been for him to have stuck to the whole destroy konoha idea. That way he's proactively trying to accomplish something and continuing to push the plot forward, except this way being the character that Naruto is forced to decide how to deal with.

Well that's because if he went through with it and it wasn't drop then he would have become a villain that Naruto needed to defeat. Which is why Kishimoto back off on that, and instead brought back Itachi so Sasuke can go on a journey to find himself.

[Qia]

Well that's because if he went through with it and it wasn't drop then he would have become a villain that Naruto needed to defeat. Which is why Kishimoto back off on that, and instead brought back Itachi so Sasuke can go on a journey to find himself.

Naruto still technically had to stop him in the end though, since he wanted to be hokage and all. I just wish his goal hadn't changed because it was the one decision I felt he made for himself without anyone's influence. It came about mainly because he found out the truth of a situation that has influenced him up until then. He was told to seek revenge from itachi, and while he could have decided not to in the end the decision he made then just isn't as proactive as this one is.

Have him become the villain. Have him be stopped in the end, arm missing and everything. Have his supposed best friend listen to him and come to a decision about the uchiha clan and have him give some kind of solution to Sasuke's issue along with other issues such as the whole caged bird seal stuff. Etc etc.

I dont know I just like the sound of that more than what we got because in the end two of the three main characters push the story forward together.

Edited by Qia, 22 January 2020 - 12:10 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

That situation just reminded me of a certain ex-writer from Sonic the Hedgehog Archie Comic Book series who currently "trying" to use his creations as his own universe and its failing because of 1) those said characters were  exclusively created and needed for that specific setting at the time and 2) your statement: "explain stuff later in other stories", oh how that ideal is active in his head because he announced this work since 2008 and STILL hasn't release anything: physical and digital! But he's yapping about it on his Twitter account. 

 

I'm not going any detail about it but you guys are welcome to ask me and I will explain it in the best of my ability and I have proof with more information.

 

I think I heard about something like that, and let's face it, it can be tough when so many people are involved in something like Sonic the Hedgehog over time. The same crap has happened elsewhere before, and makes it more difficult to do things right usually.

[LuckyChi7]

Interestingly enough my best friend and I were talking about Naruto specifically Part 2 with everything happened Post the Pain Arc where I pitched an idea of a small tweak within Pain Arc, how the Five Kage Arc should've been, and a different take on the War Arc 
 
 
So the pain arc would still relatively be the same, but the one small tweak made is the person that comes in to save Naruto when he's fighting Pain
 
I told my best friend that instead of Hinata I would have had Iruka step in because I feel it would've been more impactful.
 
 
Now the Five Kage Summit Arc from Sasuke's side would relatively stay the same, but Naruto's side would be different:
 
- After the Karui and Oomoi tell Naruto and Sakura about Sasuke maybe Sakura still cries (cause ya know old bonds), but Naruto leaves himself complicated about the entire situation, and maybe Sai catches him by himself and they have a heart to heart chat. 
 
- Sai telling Sakura that Naruto tells her would still be the same, but her confession would play out differently in terms of Naruto's reaction:

• It won't be none of that bs drama of her lying instead it would be genuine, and Naruto would say "I'm grateful that you feel that way Sakura, but this is something I have to do it's just something I have to settle." 

 

• Sakura then maybe says well remember what I told you back then, we have to do this together. That's the promise we made (a callback to what Sakura told Naruto after they made it to Orochimaru's hideout in early Part 2) 

 

• Cut to post Danzo fight, Sasuke is about to take on the other Kages and Naruto intervenes with Sakura supporting him, and they fight (ultimately ends in a draw) with Sasuke's mangekyo exhausting more chakra and his eyesight diminishing and Naruto having a tad bit more strength left in him, but decides not go the full approach

 

• He tells Sasuke that "Out of respect for past I'll let you off the hook, but if you harm anyone I care about in the village then I won't hold back." 

 

• Sakura will say "I wanted to save you deep down I really do, after seeing what's happened lately to my village to my friends, and what you've become has made me realize more than ever that you're not worth saving.

 

• From there Tobi retreats back with Sasuke telling them "I'll make sure everything you stand for burns to the ground!'

 

• .Maybe a small amount of time has passed you have a moment between Naruto and Sakura (echoing back to POAL) where she asks him:

 

• "Are you gonna be okay? after what we just experienced" 

 

•  Naruto  tells her, "Promise me one thing Sakura, it's a first I'm asking you, "Something that's been on my mind for a long time (alluding to the bench scene in Chapter 3)  and she says "Promise that on my life." 

 
 
The entire stuff with the Nine Tails and Kushina would still relatively play out the same way except make it to where Killer Bee offers to guide Naruto when he comes to the village (somehow), Guy and Kisame would be saved for the War.
 
As for the War Arc itself: 
 
I wouldn't say this is fully fleshed out, but just a concept I came up with: 
 

• It would be a War between the Hidden Leaf and The Akatsuki with Kabuto joining 

 
Structural set up:
 
Wave 1: (Week 1)  
 
 
Major Fights 

• Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto vs Edo Tensei Zabuza and Haku 

 

•  Ino-Shika-Cho vs Edo Tensei Asuma 

 

•  Hinata, Neji, and  Hiashi vs Edo Tensei Hizashi   (Neji dies here, but this time he does to protect Hinata and Hiashi for the clan no love bs)  

 

• Might Guy and Rock Lee vs  Edo Tensei Might Dai 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Dan  

 
 
Wave 2:  (Week 2) 
 
Major Fights

• Sakura vs Edo Tensei Lady Chiyo

 

• Konohamaru vs Edo Tensei Hiruzen

 

• Rock Lee vs Edo Tensei Kimmimaru  

 

• Sai vs Edo Tensei Shin

 

• Sasuke Retrieval Team vs Edo Tensei Sound Four 

 
 
Wave 3: (Week 3)
 
Major Fights 
 

• Might Guy vs Kisame 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Sasori 

 

• Konan vs Edo Tensei Nagato 

 

• Kakashi vs Edo Tensei Itachi 

 

• Kurenai vs  Edo Tensei Kakuzu 

 

• Gaara vs Edo Tensei Deidara

 
 Naruto and Sakura vs Kabuto (Edo Tensei undone)

Wave 4: (End of Week 3)   End of the War  
 

•  Sai vs Jugo 

 

• Yamato vs Suigutsu 

 

•  Sakura vs Karin 

 

• Naruto, Sakura (assist), and Kakashi vs Tobi  and Sasuke 

 
 
There would be other fights happening in this war too, but this just a concept of the main fights taking place. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 22 January 2020 - 07:12 AM.

[DrK]

• From there Tobi retreats back with Sasuke telling them "I'll make sure everything you stand for burns to the ground!'

I can't say I like every one of those ideas, but I'm definitely with you on this. It would have been way better if Sasuke was less like Kishi Sasuke and more like Flame Hyenard.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Interestingly enough my best friend and I were talking about Naruto specifically Part 2 with everything happened Post the Pain Arc where I pitched an idea of a small tweak within Pain Arc, how the Five Kage Arc should've been, and a different take on the War Arc 
 
 
So the pain arc would still relatively be the same, but the one small tweak made is the person that comes in to save Naruto when he's fighting Pain
 
I told my best friend that instead of Hinata I would have had Iruka step in because I feel it would've been more impactful.
 
 
Now the Five Kage Summit Arc from Sasuke's side would relatively stay the same, but Naruto's side would be different:
 
- After the Karui and Oomoi tell Naruto and Sakura about Sasuke maybe Sakura still cries (cause ya know old bonds), but Naruto leaves himself complicated about the entire situation, and maybe Sai catches him by himself and they have a heart to heart chat. 
 
- Sai telling Sakura that Naruto tells her would still be the same, but her confession would play out differently in terms of Naruto's reaction:

• It won't be none of that bs drama of her lying instead it would be genuine, and Naruto would say "I'm grateful that you feel that way Sakura, but this is something I have to do it's just something I have to settle." 

 

• Sakura then maybe says well remember what I told you back then, we have to do this together. That's the promise we made (a callback to what Sakura told Naruto after they made it to Orochimaru's hideout in early Part 2) 

 

• Cut to post Danzo fight, Sasuke is about to take on the other Kages and Naruto intervenes with Sakura supporting him, and they fight (ultimately ends in a draw) with Sasuke's mangekyo exhausting more chakra and his eyesight diminishing and Naruto having a tad bit more strength left in him, but decides not go the full approach

 

• He tells Sasuke that "Out of respect for past I'll let you off the hook, but if you harm anyone I care about in the village then I won't hold back." 

 

• Sakura will say "I wanted to save you deep down I really do, after seeing what's happened lately to my village to my friends, and what you've become has made me realize more than ever that you're not worth saving.

 

• From there Tobi retreats back with Sasuke telling them "I'll make sure everything you stand for burns to the ground!'

 

• .Maybe a small amount of time has passed you have a moment between Naruto and Sakura (echoing back to POAL) where she asks him:

 

• "Are you gonna be okay? after what we just experienced" 

 

•  Naruto  tells her, "Promise me one thing Sakura, it's a first I'm asking you, "Something that's been on my mind for a long time (alluding to the bench scene in Chapter 3)  and she says "Promise that on my life." 

 
 
The entire stuff with the Nine Tails and Kushina would still relatively play out the same way except make it to where Killer Bee offers to guide Naruto when he comes to the village (somehow), Guy and Kisame would be saved for the War.
 
As for the War Arc itself: 
 
I wouldn't say this is fully fleshed out, but just a concept I came up with: 
 

• It would be a War between the Hidden Leaf and The Akatsuki with Kabuto joining 

 
Structural set up:
 
Wave 1: (Week 1)  
 
 
Major Fights 

• Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto vs Edo Tensei Zabuza and Haku 

 

•  Ino-Shika-Cho vs Edo Tensei Asuma 

 

•  Hinata, Neji, and  Hiashi vs Edo Tensei Hizashi   (Neji dies here, but this time he does to protect Hinata and Hiashi for the clan no love bs)  

 

• Might Guy and Rock Lee vs  Edo Tensei Might Dai 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Dan  

 
 
Wave 2:  (Week 2) 
 
Major Fights

• Sakura vs Edo Tensei Lady Chiyo

 

• Konohamaru vs Edo Tensei Hiruzen

 

• Rock Lee vs Edo Tensei Kimmimaru  

 

• Sai vs Edo Tensei Shin

 

• Sasuke Retrieval Team vs Edo Tensei Sound Four 

 
 
Wave 3: (Week 3)
 
Major Fights 
 

• Might Guy vs Kisame 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Sasori 

 

• Konan vs Edo Tensei Nagato 

 

• Kakashi vs Edo Tensei Itachi 

 

• Kurenai vs  Edo Tensei Kakuzu 

 

• Gaara vs Edo Tensei Deidara

 
 Naruto and Sakura vs Kabuto (Edo Tensei undone)

Wave 4: (End of Week 3)   End of the War  
 

•  Sai vs Jugo 

 

• Yamato vs Suigutsu 

 

•  Sakura vs Karin 

 

• Naruto, Sakura (assist), and Kakashi vs Tobi  and Sasuke 

 
 
There would be other fights happening in this war too, but this just a concept of the main fights taking place. 

 

 

 

Cool ideas

[Derock]

Interestingly enough my best friend and I were talking about Naruto specifically Part 2 with everything happened Post the Pain Arc where I pitched an idea of a small tweak within Pain Arc, how the Five Kage Arc should've been, and a different take on the War Arc 
 
 
So the pain arc would still relatively be the same, but the one small tweak made is the person that comes in to save Naruto when he's fighting Pain
 
I told my best friend that instead of Hinata I would have had Iruka step in because I feel it would've been more impactful.
 
 
Now the Five Kage Summit Arc from Sasuke's side would relatively stay the same, but Naruto's side would be different:
 
- After the Karui and Oomoi tell Naruto and Sakura about Sasuke maybe Sakura still cries (cause ya know old bonds), but Naruto leaves himself complicated about the entire situation, and maybe Sai catches him by himself and they have a heart to heart chat. 
 
- Sai telling Sakura that Naruto tells her would still be the same, but her confession would play out differently in terms of Naruto's reaction:

• It won't be none of that bs drama of her lying instead it would be genuine, and Naruto would say "I'm grateful that you feel that way Sakura, but this is something I have to do it's just something I have to settle." 

 

• Sakura then maybe says well remember what I told you back then, we have to do this together. That's the promise we made (a callback to what Sakura told Naruto after they made it to Orochimaru's hideout in early Part 2) 

 

• Cut to post Danzo fight, Sasuke is about to take on the other Kages and Naruto intervenes with Sakura supporting him, and they fight (ultimately ends in a draw) with Sasuke's mangekyo exhausting more chakra and his eyesight diminishing and Naruto having a tad bit more strength left in him, but decides not go the full approach

 

• He tells Sasuke that "Out of respect for past I'll let you off the hook, but if you harm anyone I care about in the village then I won't hold back." 

 

• Sakura will say "I wanted to save you deep down I really do, after seeing what's happened lately to my village to my friends, and what you've become has made me realize more than ever that you're not worth saving.

 

• From there Tobi retreats back with Sasuke telling them "I'll make sure everything you stand for burns to the ground!'

 

• .Maybe a small amount of time has passed you have a moment between Naruto and Sakura (echoing back to POAL) where she asks him:

 

• "Are you gonna be okay? after what we just experienced" 

 

•  Naruto  tells her, "Promise me one thing Sakura, it's a first I'm asking you, "Something that's been on my mind for a long time (alluding to the bench scene in Chapter 3)  and she says "Promise that on my life." 

 
 
The entire stuff with the Nine Tails and Kushina would still relatively play out the same way except make it to where Killer Bee offers to guide Naruto when he comes to the village (somehow), Guy and Kisame would be saved for the War.
 
As for the War Arc itself: 
 
I wouldn't say this is fully fleshed out, but just a concept I came up with: 
 

• It would be a War between the Hidden Leaf and The Akatsuki with Kabuto joining 

 
Structural set up:
 
Wave 1: (Week 1)  
 
 
Major Fights 

• Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto vs Edo Tensei Zabuza and Haku 

 

•  Ino-Shika-Cho vs Edo Tensei Asuma 

 

•  Hinata, Neji, and  Hiashi vs Edo Tensei Hizashi   (Neji dies here, but this time he does to protect Hinata and Hiashi for the clan no love bs)  

 

• Might Guy and Rock Lee vs  Edo Tensei Might Dai 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Dan  

 
 
Wave 2:  (Week 2) 
 
Major Fights

• Sakura vs Edo Tensei Lady Chiyo

 

• Konohamaru vs Edo Tensei Hiruzen

 

• Rock Lee vs Edo Tensei Kimmimaru  

 

• Sai vs Edo Tensei Shin

 

• Sasuke Retrieval Team vs Edo Tensei Sound Four 

 
 
Wave 3: (Week 3)
 
Major Fights 
 

• Might Guy vs Kisame 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Sasori 

 

• Konan vs Edo Tensei Nagato 

 

• Kakashi vs Edo Tensei Itachi 

 

• Kurenai vs  Edo Tensei Kakuzu 

 

• Gaara vs Edo Tensei Deidara

 
 Naruto and Sakura vs Kabuto (Edo Tensei undone)

Wave 4: (End of Week 3)   End of the War  
 

•  Sai vs Jugo 

 

• Yamato vs Suigutsu 

 

•  Sakura vs Karin 

 

• Naruto, Sakura (assist), and Kakashi vs Tobi  and Sasuke 

 
 
There would be other fights happening in this war too, but this just a concept of the main fights taking place. 

 

Good ideas, especially the Iruka "sacrificing himself" to save Naruto (he will be saved though in my rewrite) in the Pain arc but here some suggestions:

 

- I wouldn't have the war be just Konoha and the Akatsuki. Add the other countries as well, same as the original.

- I noticed Konan was added. I think she should had stay alive and be an ally for Naruto, plus she'll have intel on her former Akatsuki comrades. How she's alive? (After her fight with Tobi, she was in verge of dying until the Rain Ninja saved her).

- For the Neji, Hinata and Hiashi fight against Edo Tensei Hizashi, instead of Neji kicking the bucket, have Hiashi takes his place (its better that way).

- You might as well bring back Orochimaru, but in the same alignment with Sasuke

- I really don't think Tsunade should face Sasori, that should be Sakura's fight. If Madara revived again, give Tsunade that fight like in the original.

- You're missing Hidan. He should had return for some "turning the tables"-type moments.

- I rather have Kakashi and Guy team up against Kabuto instead of Naruto and Sakura. Why? Have the latter team up with Killer Bee because we have to get the revived Jinchuriki involved with "Tobi"/Obito at some point. This also help the former to save Yamato and have him participate.

- I'm not feeling on the last parts with Team 7 against Taka at the end of the war.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The idea of Iruka protecting Naruto from Nagato/Pain is a good one. I admit, I could see him observing somewhere after helping with evacuations, then leading him to watch Naruto in trouble then help save him, like he did when Mizuki tried to kill the confused and angry Naruto after he learned he was a Jinchuriki. I actually may wanna do that in The Demon Within....

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 22 January 2020 - 10:40 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Yeah... The thing with Sasuke is that no matter how much focus is put on him, he's in the end a REACTIVE character who acts based on things that happen to him. Itachi was the one who was the prototype and the genesis of everything "good" (or at least dramatic in a story) about being an Uchiha.

 

 

Honestly, I find him to be more proactive than Naruto in the end of it all, which is kinda sad...and I think an easy solution to him becoming a less reactive character after itachi's death would have been for him to have stuck to the whole destroy konoha idea. That way he's proactively trying to accomplish something and continuing to push the plot forward, except this way being the character that Naruto is forced to decide how to deal with.

 

Well truth be told on that Naruto was not proactive on anything,  unless it involved chasing Sasuke. After the Chunin exam everything was reactive to the villains, and even before then Naruto and everyone else in the K12 did not have any active goals to pursue per say, except what their squad leaders told them to care about.

 

But back to Sasuke. Like I said everything that happened to Sasuke is a plot device or convenience to get him into the role that he is meant to play at that moment. Memory of his entire family and clan's slaughter? to make him a dark cool sexy bad boy to contrast Naruto and is part of the main love triangle. Orochimaru? Tempting him to get more power for his revenge. Itachi shows up? To PUSH HIM to go to Orochimaru and create the whole "team splitting up" drama, and so on and so forth. Truth be told, Sasuke is only such a reactive character because there was no real direction with him or if there was, he was pushed on to something else mid way. After Itachi's death this was made more blatant and painfully obvious. Really what even kept him going as a character now that I think back on it was "he was popular" and fans (women, especially) wanted to see more of him. That's it. Since Kishi seemed to be such a crowd and authority pleaser, now that we get the gist of his mindset I actually think that is accurate. And because of this might I add, Naruto's focus (both his goals and and role as the MC) was neutered and jumbled all over the place, since he MUST HAVE a pseudo-yaoi (or IS IT pseudo) relationship with Sasuke.

Edited by Phantom_999, 22 January 2020 - 07:46 PM.

[DrK]

Really what even kept him going as a character now that I think back on it was "he was popular" and fans (women, especially) wanted to see more of him. That's it. Since Kishi seemed to be such a crowd and authority pleaser, now that we get the gist of his mindset I actually think that is accurate. And because of this might I add, Naruto's focus (both his goals and and role as the MC) was neutered and jumbled all over the place, since he MUST HAVE a pseudo-yaoi (or IS IT pseudo) relationship with Sasuke.

I really don't think that Kishi's fixation on Sasuke or making Naruto obsessed with him had much if anything to do with fans. I get that people don't like how (much) Kishi used him but he's not Hinata by any means.

[VanitasDS76491]

Interestingly enough my best friend and I were talking about Naruto specifically Part 2 with everything happened Post the Pain Arc where I pitched an idea of a small tweak within Pain Arc, how the Five Kage Arc should've been, and a different take on the War Arc 
 
 
So the pain arc would still relatively be the same, but the one small tweak made is the person that comes in to save Naruto when he's fighting Pain
 
I told my best friend that instead of Hinata I would have had Iruka step in because I feel it would've been more impactful.
 
 
Now the Five Kage Summit Arc from Sasuke's side would relatively stay the same, but Naruto's side would be different:
 
- After the Karui and Oomoi tell Naruto and Sakura about Sasuke maybe Sakura still cries (cause ya know old bonds), but Naruto leaves himself complicated about the entire situation, and maybe Sai catches him by himself and they have a heart to heart chat. 
 
- Sai telling Sakura that Naruto tells her would still be the same, but her confession would play out differently in terms of Naruto's reaction:

• It won't be none of that bs drama of her lying instead it would be genuine, and Naruto would say "I'm grateful that you feel that way Sakura, but this is something I have to do it's just something I have to settle." 

 

• Sakura then maybe says well remember what I told you back then, we have to do this together. That's the promise we made (a callback to what Sakura told Naruto after they made it to Orochimaru's hideout in early Part 2) 

 

• Cut to post Danzo fight, Sasuke is about to take on the other Kages and Naruto intervenes with Sakura supporting him, and they fight (ultimately ends in a draw) with Sasuke's mangekyo exhausting more chakra and his eyesight diminishing and Naruto having a tad bit more strength left in him, but decides not go the full approach

 

• He tells Sasuke that "Out of respect for past I'll let you off the hook, but if you harm anyone I care about in the village then I won't hold back." 

 

• Sakura will say "I wanted to save you deep down I really do, after seeing what's happened lately to my village to my friends, and what you've become has made me realize more than ever that you're not worth saving.

 

• From there Tobi retreats back with Sasuke telling them "I'll make sure everything you stand for burns to the ground!'

 

• .Maybe a small amount of time has passed you have a moment between Naruto and Sakura (echoing back to POAL) where she asks him:

 

• "Are you gonna be okay? after what we just experienced" 

 

•  Naruto  tells her, "Promise me one thing Sakura, it's a first I'm asking you, "Something that's been on my mind for a long time (alluding to the bench scene in Chapter 3)  and she says "Promise that on my life." 

 
 
The entire stuff with the Nine Tails and Kushina would still relatively play out the same way except make it to where Killer Bee offers to guide Naruto when he comes to the village (somehow), Guy and Kisame would be saved for the War.
 
As for the War Arc itself: 
 
I wouldn't say this is fully fleshed out, but just a concept I came up with: 
 

• It would be a War between the Hidden Leaf and The Akatsuki with Kabuto joining 

 
Structural set up:
 
Wave 1: (Week 1)  
 
 
Major Fights 

• Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto vs Edo Tensei Zabuza and Haku 

 

•  Ino-Shika-Cho vs Edo Tensei Asuma 

 

•  Hinata, Neji, and  Hiashi vs Edo Tensei Hizashi   (Neji dies here, but this time he does to protect Hinata and Hiashi for the clan no love bs)  

 

• Might Guy and Rock Lee vs  Edo Tensei Might Dai 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Dan  

 
 
Wave 2:  (Week 2) 
 
Major Fights

• Sakura vs Edo Tensei Lady Chiyo

 

• Konohamaru vs Edo Tensei Hiruzen

 

• Rock Lee vs Edo Tensei Kimmimaru  

 

• Sai vs Edo Tensei Shin

 

• Sasuke Retrieval Team vs Edo Tensei Sound Four 

 
 
Wave 3: (Week 3)
 
Major Fights 
 

• Might Guy vs Kisame 

 

• Tsunade vs Edo Tensei Sasori 

 

• Konan vs Edo Tensei Nagato 

 

• Kakashi vs Edo Tensei Itachi 

 

• Kurenai vs  Edo Tensei Kakuzu 

 

• Gaara vs Edo Tensei Deidara

 
 Naruto and Sakura vs Kabuto (Edo Tensei undone)
Wave 4: (End of Week 3)   End of the War  
 

•  Sai vs Jugo 

 

• Yamato vs Suigutsu 

 

•  Sakura vs Karin 

 

• Naruto, Sakura (assist), and Kakashi vs Tobi  and Sasuke 

 
 
There would be other fights happening in this war too, but this just a concept of the main fights taking place.

Wow all that sounds way better than what we got and had a better death for Neji and develop a lot more character as well as Naruto and Sakura. Plus that part she said to Sasuke after the danzo fight was cool.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

 

 

Well truth be told on that Naruto was not proactive on anything,  unless it involved chasing Sasuke. After the Chunin exam everything was reactive to the villains, and even before then Naruto and everyone else in the K12 did not have any active goals to pursue per say, except what their squad leaders told them to care about.

 

But back to Sasuke. Like I said everything that happened to Sasuke is a plot device or convenience to get him into the role that he is meant to play at that moment. Memory of his entire family and clan's slaughter? to make him a dark cool sexy bad boy to contrast Naruto and is part of the main love triangle. Orochimaru? Tempting him to get more power for his revenge. Itachi shows up? To PUSH HIM to go to Orochimaru and create the whole "team splitting up" drama, and so on and so forth. Truth be told, Sasuke is only such a reactive character because there was no real direction with him or if there was, he was pushed on to something else mid way. After Itachi's death this was made more blatant and painfully obvious. Really what even kept him going as a character now that I think back on it was "he was popular" and fans (women, especially) wanted to see more of him. That's it. Since Kishi seemed to be such a crowd and authority pleaser, now that we get the gist of his mindset I actually think that is accurate. And because of this might I add, Naruto's focus (both his goals and and role as the MC) was neutered and jumbled all over the place, since he MUST HAVE a pseudo-yaoi (or IS IT pseudo) relationship with Sasuke.

 

I know it's a grey area, but it's also hard when Sasuke had no REAL interest in Sakura at all to make it a love triangle. More like it was one-sided from Sakura to Sasuke. Really in my fanfic, I had this idea Sasuke isn't just gonna be reactive, he's actually proactive at the point he does go on his way to redeeming himself for his many sins with the Foundation, and his realization that even if he'd been afraid of Naruto (or anyone for that matter) being stronger than him, that there's always gonna be someone who's stronger, and that revenge will only take the one who seeks it.

[Phantom_999]

Oh I know he isn't interested in Sakura, But because Sakura was interested in him at first and Naruto was interested in her it still counts as a love triangle, just not a neutral one on Sasuke's end. the redemption part is actually interesting and something that should have been done all along, so go for it.

 

I really don't think that Kishi's fixation on Sasuke or making Naruto obsessed with him had much if anything to do with fans. I get that people don't like how (much) Kishi used him but he's not Hinata by any means.

 

It may not be the fans that dictated it, that's true but if it were the editors saying that is what the fans want and were constantly badgering Kishi to flip flop Sasuke's character on a whim, is it that hard to believe? Sasuke was inconsistent in what role he was meant to play especially late in the series, and by Kishi's own admission, he was winging it a lot of the time nor did he really have focus except for the end of the story, so who's to say some of Sasuke's character portrayal wasn't a suggestion from the editors. I wasn't saying the fans had anything to do with it, I meant maybe the editors suggested ideas that they think would be popular with the fans. That's just my theory though, and I'm only basing it off of what I see and some decisions made like with Hinata, so I can't say I'm right. But that may have something to do with it, all things considered

Edited by Phantom_999, 23 January 2020 - 01:10 AM.

[DrK]

It may not be the fans that dictated it, that's true but if it were the editors saying that is what the fans want and were constantly badgering Kishi to flip flop Sasuke's character on a whim, is it that hard to believe? Sasuke was inconsistent in what role he was meant to play especially late in the series, and by Kishi's own admission, he was winging it a lot of the time nor did he really have focus except for the end of the story, so who's to say some of Sasuke's character portrayal wasn't a suggestion from the editors. I wasn't saying the fans had anything to do with it, I meant maybe the editors suggested ideas that they think would be popular with the fans. That's just my theory though, and I'm only basing it off of what I see and some decisions made like with Hinata, so I can't say I'm right. But that may have something to do with it, all things considered

Um, well, when I said "fans" it was meant in the same sense that you used it. And I don't know how hard to believe it is, I just don't believe it. Kishi was all about Sasuke (even more than Sakura was, and we've seen how all about him she is!) and I honestly don't think they would even try to change or influence his tiresome narrative that led to a NaruSasu reconciliation.