54175 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

See that's why I don't like the word "cliche". Even if something is used a lot, it can be written well enough to still be good. I think you are hindering yourself if you think something might be cliche or fit some sort of trope.

I don't like that word either. Especially when people seem to use it on things that are actually not cliche, but rather Tropes.

Example:

"SupermanxWonder Woman is too cliche."
I don't see how. They say it is the whole "GodXGod" love affair that is cliche, but it is hardly ever done. If anything, the "GodXRandomHuman" is far more cliche and has been done to death. How many stories tell of "SupermanxLoisLane" stories are there? I mean, I love Superman, but a change that is done well could do some good. I do think BatmanxWonderWoman is a horrible pairing mostly because nothing connects them. Batman is better with Catwoman because they are both the same and they understand better each other. I guess I can see BatmanxWonderWoman a thing, but it definitly wouldn't last as a strong relationship...especially when Batman is like the number 1 playboy and womanizer in the whole DC series. He has done pretty much every female at least once.

I also hate it when people say "We are tired of the same Superman story...can you do something different?" Change Superman dating Wonder Woman and they flip their lid. "How dare you, Superman needs to be with Lois Lane and noone else."

And still: No problems with Hulk and Black Widow being a thing apparently.

If a cliche means "a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought" then wouldn't that make things like SupermanxLois the most cliche ever since the story has been done?

 

One of the most beautiful things about TLJ is how the how/why Rey's so powerful and skilled with the Force completely destroys the intended message that by being a "nobody," Rey's strength comes from herself and not her lineage. It's comical how quickly it falls apart. Here's the abridged version.

 

1) Rey's strength with the Force is the Force trying to balance the darkness that is Kylo Ren. It's not Rey's own inner strength at work here, it's the will of the Force giving her power. In essence, this removes her nobody "status" as she is the one the Force is choosing to be their champion out of all the Force sensitives in the galaxy.

 

2) Kylo's abilities are boosted due to the legendary Skywalker bloodline. Since Rey is supposed to balance Kylo, Rey is being empowered by the Skywalker bloodline by proxy.

 

3) According to one of the writers on Twitter, Rey learned Jedi abilities and how to use a lightsaber by looking into Kylo Ren's mind during her interrogation during TFA. She copied Kylo Ren's abilities. This is not a new thing either, this was originally tweeted in 2016.

 

4) The previous point has since been expanded on through tweets. It was part of the Force bond between Rey and Kylo Ren that allowed this, which was created during the interrogation scene... by Snoke. So, Rey only learned Force abiltiies by copying them from Kylo Ren's mind after Snoke bridged them.

 

So, Rey learned her abilities because she was able to copy them from Kylo Ren due to the actions of Snoke. On top of that she is being buffed by the Force so that she can fight Kylo Ren, who himself is buffed by his lineage. Despite all this, they want her to be seen as someone who is strong not because of her own lineage, but because of her own strength.

Basically, she is a mary sue because "We wanted to make a mary sue female jedi and show how the Skywalkers are overrated" despite the Star Wars story as a whole has always been about the Skywalker family. Again, making Rey a Skywalker would have solved all these problems without much effort. It takes more effort to make her a nobody than it does to make her a somebody.

 

Like I said, Star Wars EU never had this problem. Luke had kids AND they were relevant and cool and you still had room for so much more characters like Boba Fett.
 

 

There's nothing wrong with stories that from the beginning start with the whole destiny route. But when your story starts the path of an underdog that has to work for everything he has and will have, but later on decide that it was all fate then it's rubbish.

Now there are ways around this, for example even though you pick later on the fate path, you can still have the hero struggle with everything he does. It's his/her destiny to achieve This Whatever This Is, but nothing is actually given to him or her. Going this route wouldn't nullify what you did in the beginning.

Indeed. Look at the story of Anakin Skywalker. His destiny was to bring balance to the force. Well, in a way, he did. FIrst he killed all the Jedi, especially the hubris ones, and then killed Palpatine by throwing him in the core. Sure, Luke played a hand, but Anakin fullfilled his destiny. Just because it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies does not mean he didn't fullfill it and it wasn't exactly easy to do. He had to lose everything he loved and cared about before he could achieve it with his son being the only thing keeping him afloat.

Too bad prophecies and such weren't more accurate.




 

 

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 January 2018 - 08:26 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Yeah, like despite Anakin or Luke being the "chosen one", look at the crap they had to go through before they achieved said "destiny". A lot of people seem to forget that just because something "grand"
could be predestined for a person, that doesn't mean the journey for them will be easy nor the destination all good.for them. Heck, another loophole is that even if something may be predestined, who's to say that the person will even make it to said destination, much less in the "perfect" way? All it is saying is that that is where the person would eventually end up, but it doesn't really say anything about their journey, so there's still a possibility that they might not make it all the way to said destination, lol.

Again look at time force that whole was about changing your fate especially more towards the end in that arc where alex came back and wes father was dying. Did naruto ever fight his destiny no he followed it to the latter even though he said he'd fight it. Heck jungle fury had a better redemption arc with jarred and his relationship with casey and camel showed that.

[VanitasDS76491]

I don't like that word either. Especially when people seem to use it on things that are actually not cliche, but rather Tropes.
Example:
"SupermanxWonder Woman is too cliche."
I don't see how. They say it is the whole "GodXGod" love affair that is cliche, but it is hardly ever done. If anything, the "GodXRandomHuman" is far more cliche and has been done to death. How many stories tell of "SupermanxLoisLane" stories are there? I mean, I love Superman, but a change that is done well could do some good. I do think BatmanxWonderWoman is a horrible pairing mostly because nothing connects them. Batman is better with Catwoman because they are both the same and they understand better each other. I guess I can see BatmanxWonderWoman a thing, but it definitly wouldn't last as a strong relationship...especially when Batman is like the number 1 playboy and womanizer in the whole DC series. He has done pretty much every female at least once.
I also hate it when people say "We are tired of the same Superman story...can you do something different?" Change Superman dating Wonder Woman and they flip their lid. "How dare you, Superman needs to be with Lois Lane and noone else."
And still: No problems with Hulk and Black Widow being a thing apparently.
If a cliche means "a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought" then wouldn't that make things like SupermanxLois the most cliche ever since the story has been done?
 

Basically, she is a mary sue because "We wanted to make a mary sue female jedi and show how the Skywalkers are overrated" despite the Star Wars story as a whole has always been about the Skywalker family. Again, making Rey a Skywalker would have solved all these problems without much effort. It takes more effort to make her a nobody than it does to make her a somebody.
 
Like I said, Star Wars EU never had this problem. Luke had kids AND they were relevant and cool and you still had room for so much more characters like Boba Fett.
 
 


Indeed. Look at the story of Anakin Skywalker. His destiny was to bring balance to the force. Well, in a way, he did. FIrst he killed all the Jedi, especially the hubris ones, and then killed Palpatine by throwing him in the core. Sure, Luke played a hand, but Anakin fullfilled his destiny. Just because it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies does not mean he didn't fullfill it and it wasn't exactly easy to do. He had to lose everything he loved and cared about before he could achieve it with his son being the only thing keeping him afloat.
Too bad prophecies and such weren't more accurate.

Agreed though I like batman x wonderwoman in the justice League cartoon from the 2000 they seemed like a good couple even zatanna pointed out Bruce had feelings for Diana. Superman and wonderwoman only works if Lois is dead like in kingdom come or injustice.
Agreed anakin chosen one story was good little shaky in the beginning cause of the prequels.
I think hulk and black widow people hate that, hulk works better with Betty even if she's a hulk now.
That's why prophecies aren't good writing unless you know what your doing, at least power rangers to some degree got this right.

[RulesofNature]

Basically, she is a mary sue because "We wanted to make a mary sue female jedi and show how the Skywalkers are overrated" despite the Star Wars story as a whole has always been about the Skywalker family. Again, making Rey a Skywalker would have solved all these problems without much effort. It takes more effort to make her a nobody than it does to make her a somebody.

 

Like I said, Star Wars EU never had this problem. Luke had kids AND they were relevant and cool and you still had room for so much more characters like Boba Fett.
 

 

Indeed. Look at the story of Anakin Skywalker. His destiny was to bring balance to the force. Well, in a way, he did. FIrst he killed all the Jedi, especially the hubris ones, and then killed Palpatine by throwing him in the core. Sure, Luke played a hand, but Anakin fullfilled his destiny. Just because it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies does not mean he didn't fullfill it and it wasn't exactly easy to do. He had to lose everything he loved and cared about before he could achieve it with his son being the only thing keeping him afloat.

Too bad prophecies and such weren't more accurate.

 

I'd say it's more that Lucasfilm envisioned Rey as this bog-standard strong woman, and when people didn't automatically go along singing her praises they just began making crap up on the spot. It just shows this lack of care with the characters themselves, with Lucasfilm focusing more on what they wanted them to be seen as and not enough on the writing to get that across.

 

And, you know, I feel there's a difference between old EU and new EU. Old EU fleshed out the story around the movies, going off in whatever direction they wanted to explore. New EU is a means to supplement the sequel trilogy, offering explanations for how things turned out the way they did rather than that being explained on screen. I mean, the history of the First Order and the failure of the New Republic ARE explained, but they're done so in books.

 

I keep saying this to my friends, George started with a simple story and he continuously built on it. It started with this small band of people rebelling against this evil empire that recently did away with the Senate, and the guy with the breathing problem betrayed and destroyed a group of knights that protected the peace. It was a good framework, allowing Lucas to tell stories in both directions. But we could understand the setting and the major events with just what we saw on screen, the books were optional in understanding the universe. With Disney, it's like we went from episode 1 to episode 4 and it is jarring.

 

 

I think my favorite chosen one story is Dune. The prophesy was something created to control the Freman, and a standard practice of the Bene Gesserit. Paul used it to his advantage, giving him access to a people ready to be his soldiers. He had special abilities, but that was because of a breeding program that lasted centuries and specialized training. And what's more, the sequel Dune Messiah has him having to deal with the aftermath of his ascension to Emperor of the Universe, with his Freman killing billions in a Holy War he inspired. And while his powers did give him a way to solve everything, it still saw his lover die in what he deemed the happiest fate he foresaw for her.

[Illnevergiveup3]

I don't like that word either. Especially when people seem to use it on things that are actually not cliche, but rather Tropes.

Example:

"SupermanxWonder Woman is too cliche."
I don't see how. They say it is the whole "GodXGod" love affair that is cliche, but it is hardly ever done. If anything, the "GodXRandomHuman" is far more cliche and has been done to death. How many stories tell of "SupermanxLoisLane" stories are there? I mean, I love Superman, but a change that is done well could do some good. I do think BatmanxWonderWoman is a horrible pairing mostly because nothing connects them. Batman is better with Catwoman because they are both the same and they understand better each other. I guess I can see BatmanxWonderWoman a thing, but it definitly wouldn't last as a strong relationship...especially when Batman is like the number 1 playboy and womanizer in the whole DC series. He has done pretty much every female at least once.

I also hate it when people say "We are tired of the same Superman story...can you do something different?" Change Superman dating Wonder Woman and they flip their lid. "How dare you, Superman needs to be with Lois Lane and noone else."

And still: No problems with Hulk and Black Widow being a thing apparently.

If a cliche means "a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought" then wouldn't that make things like SupermanxLois the most cliche ever since the story has been done?

 

Basically, she is a mary sue because "We wanted to make a mary sue female jedi and show how the Skywalkers are overrated" despite the Star Wars story as a whole has always been about the Skywalker family. Again, making Rey a Skywalker would have solved all these problems without much effort. It takes more effort to make her a nobody than it does to make her a somebody.

 

Like I said, Star Wars EU never had this problem. Luke had kids AND they were relevant and cool and you still had room for so much more characters like Boba Fett.
 

 

Indeed. Look at the story of Anakin Skywalker. His destiny was to bring balance to the force. Well, in a way, he did. FIrst he killed all the Jedi, especially the hubris ones, and then killed Palpatine by throwing him in the core. Sure, Luke played a hand, but Anakin fullfilled his destiny. Just because it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies does not mean he didn't fullfill it and it wasn't exactly easy to do. He had to lose everything he loved and cared about before he could achieve it with his son being the only thing keeping him afloat.

Too bad prophecies and such weren't more accurate.




 

 

 

 

I am one who always loved Superman being with Lois Lane and no one else. Especially, Lana. I always hated Lana. But I agree with the overall message you are trying to convey.

[Nostradamus]

A lot of people say that shipping the heroine and hero together is cliche, but I can't help it because their so compatible with each other. That's one of the things I love about NaruSaku, the compatibility.

I want to say that nothing is truly cliche. Badly gone, yes. This is what I think some of these people complain about when they're saying it's cliche. They can't determine why exactly it's bad, so they go for the cliche word.

[Yyubie]

I want to say that nothing is truly cliche. Badly gone, yes. This is what I think some of these people complain about when they're saying it's cliche. They can't determine why exactly it's bad, so they go for the cliche word.

I think it's depend on development , NS clearly had bigger development than NH. What i still don't understand is red herring and misleading reader normal in the manga world?

[Phantom_999]

You know I want to bring up something that I think that many here can agree on. You know all those best friends become lovers stories? Notice how in almost all of them when the couple in question are as comfortable with the thought of them being in a romantic relationship as much as they are being best friends, their relationship does not change actually except that they now kiss, hold hands, and cuddle up to each other. And well, smexy stuff on top of that potentially.    That actually fits the mold with Naruto and Sakura perfectly. And again this stems from the fact of how comfortable they are around each other. Compare this to Hinata where she is just goes along with whatever the EFF Naruto does and wants, and Naruto does not even express himself properly to her and has since adapted that typical "smile and move on" type of Japanese mentality. That just speaks to me of a BORING and unfulfilling relationship. And No I don't think that was to reflect Japanese values, because other on screen couples don't do that, Not Minato and Kushina, not Azuma and Kurenai. etc. Ah, you get the picture. So essentially Naruto and Hinata is ANOTHER FORM of dysfunctional couple as in they are completely incompatible and NOTHING any "so called authorites" on the Naruto franchise can say to make me believe otherwise

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 March 2018 - 04:44 PM.

[jak123]

I think it's depend on development , NS clearly had bigger development than NH. What i still don't understand is red herring and misleading reader normal in the manga world?

It's not. It's just an excuse so he doesn't have to admit he messed up. Even his wife thinks so.

[Nostradamus]

I think it's depend on development , NS clearly had bigger development than NH. What i still don't understand is red herring and misleading reader normal in the manga world?

I was referring to the use of the word in general, not just about a pairing. As for red herrings, those are generally not good in writing unless you know what you're doing. You can mislead the reader, of course, but I don't know the correct term for this, so I'm going to call it as a sort of a foreshadow. What I mean is that you have to give small clues that go undetected by most when presented with that moment and be careful with the dialog you pick in order to set-up the misdirection.
You don't have to be specific about things, just a little vague but with enough detail to lead the audience in one direction.

With Naruto, only an idiot will call the development in it as a red herring.

[LuckyChi7]

Been a few weeks since i've last been on, but it's that time of month again for Spider-Man Renew Your Vows. 

 

So let's take a look at this scene from the final chapter of Naruto Cash grab ending for Until Next Time: 

 

 

 

 

Now I understand the context behind this scene, but the execution is just awful it feels so halfassed, like oh yeah boruto you got to suck it in these times because you've got to learn that's what being a ninja is all about. I mean how old is Boruto in this suppose to be? like 8 if I'm not mistaken, and he's 12 in the movie/manga timeline.  What happens there with Naruto and Boruto? 

 

 

 

The infamous cheating scene at the chunin exams, and Boruto still not gaining anything because dad's attention.. Which honestly could've worked if it wasn't brushed aside right before the final fight. Like okay basically Naruto gives Boruto a similar lecture here about being a shinobi, to which I'm like are you serious like really? That's the best you've got.  Again it's not until the father son rasengan moment where it's like Oh I finally understand where dad was coming from. As an action scene it works for what it is, but as a emotional set piece, it could've been alot better. 

 

 

 

 

 

Naruto's lecture to Boruto relates to him cheating and how that's not what being a shinobi is, and not to mention in Chapter 700 on a peaceful day he's like yeah I know you wanna try to spend time, but you've got to endure this? Umm I'm sorry what? 

 

 

Anyway now let's take a look at how renew your vows handled this message of hardwork: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The difference between the scenes from Boruto, and in Renew Your Vows is the experience of what's currently happening. One could say Peter is giving a speech to Annie through exposition, but the difference here is that Annie while crimefighting with her parents for eight years is learning what it means to be a hero. Not to mention that the father son thing was more about Boruto understanding his father, and less about himself in some if not most ways.  Whereas it should've been Boruto learning from Naruto about being a ninja other than being told, oh wait that's what a good writer would do something that Renew Your Vows just continues to accelerate at, and just keeps getting better and better. Just through a couple pages you can tell Annie's learned something valuable from Peter in this one issue, and that's always important to know because Annie takes it to heart. 

 

 

Next month's issue gonna be interesting because it seems we're gonna get to see Annie's high school life: 

 

[Gravenimage]

Okay who is that guy with the scar on his face? Just kidding I know it's Iruka but holy crap what was the last time he'd appeared on the series? I thought Pierot erased him from existence in order to convince the fans that the first person to acknowledge Naruto was Hinata.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Okay who is that guy with the scar on his face? Just kidding I know it's Iruka but holy crap what was the last time he'd appeared on the series? I thought Pierot erased him from existence in order to convince the fans that the first person to acknowledge Naruto was Hinata.

 

Yeah, which blows chunks, given he's more important to Naruto's story than even Sasuke and Sakura are.

[Bail o' Lies]

Okay who is that guy with the scar on his face? Just kidding I know it's Iruka but holy crap what was the last time he'd appeared on the series? I thought Pierot erased him from existence in order to convince the fans that the first person to acknowledge Naruto was Hinata.

They decided to pull him of from non-existence to be a scapegoat for the failure of nH's relationship. 

[RulesofNature]

Okay, my rage is about to freaking break here. This is bullcrap. Freaking bullcrap. BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR THIS FAILURE OF A RELATIONSHIP BUT HINATA-HIME HUH? So not only, not only do they crap on all the bonds Naruto cultivated during the series to say he already had a more powerful one with the girl he never talked to and thought was creepy, NOW everyone is crying about how he didn't react to Hinata's feelings sooner. Iruka, the first bond we see Naruto establish at the beginning of the series, apologizes because Naruto never bonded with a girl he never knew.

 

But what do I expect? They already complete screwed over the rest of the series to get this far. Guess they have to keep pandering to Hinata's overestimated fanbase because they already bet everything on it, am I right?

[VanitasDS76491]

Been a few weeks since i've last been on, but it's that time of month again for Spider-Man Renew Your Vows. 
 
So let's take a look at this scene from the final chapter of Naruto Cash grab ending for Until Next Time: 
 
 

 
 
Now I understand the context behind this scene, but the execution is just awful it feels so halfassed, like oh yeah boruto you got to suck it in these times because you've got to learn that's what being a ninja is all about. I mean how old is Boruto in this suppose to be? like 8 if I'm not mistaken, and he's 12 in the movie/manga timeline.  What happens there with Naruto and Boruto? 
 
 

 
The infamous cheating scene at the chunin exams, and Boruto still not gaining anything because dad's attention.. Which honestly could've worked if it wasn't brushed aside right before the final fight. Like okay basically Naruto gives Boruto a similar lecture here about being a shinobi, to which I'm like are you serious like really? That's the best you've got.  Again it's not until the father son rasengan moment where it's like Oh I finally understand where dad was coming from. As an action scene it works for what it is, but as a emotional set piece, it could've been alot better. 
 
 

 
 
 
Naruto's lecture to Boruto relates to him cheating and how that's not what being a shinobi is, and not to mention in Chapter 700 on a peaceful day he's like yeah I know you wanna try to spend time, but you've got to endure this? Umm I'm sorry what? 
 
 
Anyway now let's take a look at how renew your vows handled this message of hardwork: 
 

 
 

 

 

 
The difference between the scenes from Boruto, and in Renew Your Vows is the experience of what's currently happening. One could say Peter is giving a speech to Annie through exposition, but the difference here is that Annie while crimefighting with her parents for eight years is learning what it means to be a hero. Not to mention that the father son thing was more about Boruto understanding his father, and less about himself in some if not most ways.  Whereas it should've been Boruto learning from Naruto about being a ninja other than being told, oh wait that's what a good writer would do something that Renew Your Vows just continues to accelerate at, and just keeps getting better and better. Just through a couple pages you can tell Annie's learned something valuable from Peter in this one issue, and that's always important to know because Annie takes it to heart. 
 
 
Next month's issue gonna be interesting because it seems we're gonna get to see Annie's high school life: 
 

 
Sorry that scene from the movie naruto find out he's son was cheat, naruto's design still looks awful. I was hoping Thanos would have shown up during that scene in the movie be better than we got with no one kaguya spawn. I love these comparison with spiderman and naruto showing spiderman can bounch back from a bad story where as naruto get worse.
 

Yeah, which blows chunks, given he's more important to Naruto's story than even Sasuke and Sakura are.

I wonder what naruto would have been like had iruka not been there for him in the 1st chapter.

[Gravenimage]

 
Sorry that scene from the movie naruto find out he's son was cheat, naruto's design still looks awful. I was hoping Thanos would have shown up during that scene in the movie be better than we got with no one kaguya spawn. I love these comparison with spiderman and naruto showing spiderman can bounch back from a bad story where as naruto get worse.
  I wonder what naruto would have been like had iruka not been there for him in the 1st chapter.

 

Bold Hinata would have still been there for him. After all she's the first person to acknowledged Naruto even when the manga says otherwise.

Edited by Gravenimage, 01 February 2018 - 12:26 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Okay, my rage is about to freaking break here. This is bullcrap. Freaking bullcrap. BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR THIS FAILURE OF A RELATIONSHIP BUT HINATA-HIME HUH? So not only, not only do they crap on all the bonds Naruto cultivated during the series to say he already had a more powerful one with the girl he never talked to and thought was creepy, NOW everyone is crying about how he didn't react to Hinata's feelings sooner. Iruka, the first bond we see Naruto establish at the beginning of the series, apologizes because Naruto never bonded with a girl he never knew.

 

But what do I expect? They already complete screwed over the rest of the series to get this far. Guess they have to keep pandering to Hinata's overestimated fanbase because they already bet everything on it, am I right?

Remember that a lot of people that are still working on it are Hinata fans (and are a major reason why Hinata fanbase got as big a it did.) So this isn't just "doing it to please the fans" as much as what they want to do. They can't change the fact that Naruto and Hinata relationship is kitten -since that is the core of Boruto-, but they can put the blame on everyone that is not hinata.

 

I wish we had more numbers to see how it is doing.

[RulesofNature]

Remember that a lot of people that are still working on it are Hinata fans (and are a major reason why Hinata fanbase got as big a it did.) So this isn't just "doing it to please the fans" as much as what they want to do. They can't change the fact that Naruto and Hinata relationship is kitten -since that is the core of Boruto-, but they can put the blame on everyone that is not hinata.

 

I wish we had more numbers to see how it is doing.

 

I know.

 

The whole thing reminds me of Steven Moffat. He's a Doctor Who fan and when given the reins ran the show the way he wanted it to be, but in the end created something that just didn't feel like Doctor Who. It was like he wanted everything to be deeper sounding, quippy, more cinematic and it just stopped working for me no matter how much I wanted to like 11 and 12. It was never fun adventures in space and time, it was these overly convoluted examinations of what the Doctor means with companions who stayed way past their welcome. Mysteries dragged on for too long and reveals lost their flair.

 

But the thing is, despite all the smack I talk about Moffat I still don't question his love of the series. He just wanted to do his thing. With Hinata's fanbase, it doesn't feel like they're fans of Naruto. Hell, it doesn't feel like they're fans of canon-Hinata. They wanted to take the series in the direction they wanted and eventually convinced the creator to do so. It feels disrespectful to me that they were only fans of his story so long as it their way.

 

But alas, how many times do we see stuff like fans saying a series became a trainwreck after the writing did something they didn't like? I feel that within the anime community fans don't care about what a series is trying to say. All they care about is that it indulges them. This is the problem with pro-Enders, and the sad part is now they're running the asylum.

 

On a side note, I've begun checking out Re:Creators since I heard it compared to Last Action Hero (my favorite Arnold movie). Wonder how the various Naruto cast members would react in such a situation? Naruto tries to defend the direction the series went in but becomes depressed after people point out what went wrong, the broken messages, and the retcons for NaruHina. Sasuke breaks and tries to kill Kishi. Sakura becomes introspective on her life choices.

[Yyubie]

Remember that a lot of people that are still working on it are Hinata fans (and are a major reason why Hinata fanbase got as big a it did.) So this isn't just "doing it to please the fans" as much as what they want to do. They can't change the fact that Naruto and Hinata relationship is kitten -since that is the core of Boruto-, but they can put the blame on everyone that is not hinata.

 

I wish we had more numbers to see how it is doing.

I think the reason why they not making NH/SS as happy couple , happy family , lovey dovey-ish is because they think there is nothing to explore. It's like when your tools / car working properly there's nothing to be told or said. That's why they make them not happy to create drama for the fans to explore or make curious why they not happy. I don't think all of the staff that working on boruto anime is 100% NH fans , there are at least small fraction of them that against that. But what i'm sure is the one who in control of the wheel (the owner of the studio) is definitely NH fan and money milking greed Judas.