50 replies to this topic

[Therece]

Kishimoto seems to be the Boruto manga's idea guy. If ikemoto gets stuck he asks Kishi and he gives him an idea off the top of his head. Or. Ikemoto gets an idea for his story Kishimoto gives a justification to make it work.

 

One Piece. Nami is still considered the love interest of Luffy. From what I understand even somewhat officially. Just they aren't interested in doing anything with that because Oda both doesn't want to focus on that type of romance and saw what it did to Kishi.

 

Digimon. intentionally went against it and constantly has to deal with people not being over it. To the point that the mess that was Digimon Tri, was an attempt to deal with it.

 

Bleach. Kubo always wanted Ichigo/Orihime & Rukia/Renji and made it pretty blatant throughout the story. Even then before heading off the final battle the story had to repeatedly beat it into the readers head those were happening. Also if their is a sequel continuation. I think it pretty clear Kazui will be the lead and Ichika will be the love interest/heroine

 

Dragon Ball. Originally a one arc story about a boy and a girl traveling a mystic land in search of wish granting orbs. Romance was not intended...at least between those two. Toriyama had to basically force Chichi onto Goku because that's was the only way he could perceive Goku getting with anyone. Also during Gohan's brief stint as the Hero, he almost immediately got a Heroine/Love interest with Videl. Also, Trunks focus arc right now? Love interest/Heroine is Mai.

 

 

So Dragon Ball has a different Main Heroine depending of the Arc? Videl/ChiChi are side characters that come out of nowhere with the solo function to produce more Saiyans.

Bulma is the only female Character with  consistent importance during the series to be qualified as a main Heroine.

About Digimon. None of Digimon Seasons was sucefully like the first season. Toei simply brought back the first cast to save the franchise.

I don't think they altered the pairings or even pushed Sora to Taichi in Tri.

The main point isn't unusual for a main girl loving someone differente from the Protagonist or ending with the deuteragonist/Rival from the Series for japoneses.

 

 

People are turning their back on Boruto because they are trashing the old gen, I want to say the new gen in general is not interesting enough to carry the franchise when the old gen is there being useless.

Most of the Old Naruto fans  are starving for real Naruto content: clan mysteries, ninja fights, Uchihas and even some families Uchiha/Uzumaki moments judging by comments in Youtube. They just can't stand technology/allien Boruto stuff.

I really interestest to know to wich degree Kishi is envolved to Boruto when Ikemoto is ignoring everything he created in Naruto Universe.

Kishimoto didn't even make a single interview that he is even interested in Boruto.

Edited by Therece, 03 February 2023 - 07:33 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

 
 
So Dragon Ball has a different Main Heroine depending of the Arc? Videl/ChiChi are side characters that come out of nowhere with the solo function to produce more Saiyans.
Bulma is the only female Character with  consistent importance during the series to be qualified as a main Heroine.
About Digimon. None of Digimon Seasons was sucefully like the first season. Toei simply brought back the first cast to save the franchise.
I don't think they altered the pairings or even pushed Sora to Taichi in Tri.
The main point isn't unusual for a main girl loving someone differente from the Protagonist or ending with the deuteragonist/Rival from the Series for japoneses.
 
 
People are turning their back on Boruto because they are trashing the old gen, I want to say the new gen in general is not interesting enough to carry the franchise when the old gen is there being useless.
Most of the Old Naruto fans  are starving for real Naruto content: clan mysteries, ninja fights, Uchihas and even some families Uchiha/Uzumaki moments judging by comments in Youtube. They just can't stand technology/allien Boruto stuff.
I really interestest to know to wich degree Kishi is envolved to Boruto when Ikemoto is ignoring everything he created in Naruto Universe.
Kishimoto didn't even make a single interview that he is even interested in Boruto.

While there are some execptions to the main male and female not becoming couples, it pretty much more common for them to get together in Japan media. Look at shaman king, yu yu hakusho, Tokyo Ghoul, kenshin, and any manga done by Rumiko Takahashi. Heck I'd argue in the west its still pretty common even today.

I'm starting to see more people treat this sasuke manga in a similarmanner to boruto, mostly because using dinosaurs as antagonists is as stupid for many as the same sci-fi elements of aliens and technology that boruto used that doesn't feel natural in the naruto world. Plus the anime adaption doesn't help.

[Therece]

About Yu Yu Hakusho. Who is the Main Heroine? Keiko is pretty much useless in fights/plot. For the most of the series she only serves as spectator to care about Yusuke. While Botan have slightly more importance as a assistent in spiritual world. Using Yu Yu Hakusho as exemple Togashi made clear Keiko loved Yusuke since the Beggining.  He didn't made Keiko hugs Hiei (The Sasuke equivalent) everytime or declaring her Love to him.

I think NaruSaku fans should blame Kishimoto to a certain degree so show Sakura blindly in love in Sasuke in a point she was willing to  abandon everything to him and had to be stoped by the own Sasuke. This helped to completely outshine NaruSaku during part 1 and half of the part 2 and he still created Hinata as a secundary love interest to Naruto and made another love declaration...

Kishimoto created too many Rival Pairings to NaruSaku and in the end these pairings become more famous combined than the suposed main pairing.

[Bail o' Lies]

Showing Sakura's feeling toward Sasuke when he left the village wasn't necessarily a bad move, at that time. It was the first editor's idea to incorporate the love interest and the rival, which also include the love triangle from the very beginning. So her confessing to Sasuke was only the continuation of Yahagi's idea. I agree that it wasn't needed but again, at that time, it wasn't necessarily a bad move.

 

What Kishimoto wasn't aware of is the massive influence the anime got in the west.

 

Hinata was irrelevant to the manga and only started to pop with her confession in the Pain arc but before that, her most ''relevant'' moment was during the chunin exam. While her giving Naruto support before his match with Neji gave her some points with the fans, what really started her popularity in the west was the fillers made by Pierrot after Sasuke left the village ( one in particular when Hinata trains aon a lake (naked, in a shadow), Naruto sees it and look enchanted by what he sees). Western fans watch more the anime and not as much reading the manga made her look relevant to the story even if she wasn't. Not only did Pierrot shows Hinata as more relevant to the story that she already was but started early showing Sakura way more violent toward Naruto than she really was in the manga. Another things that westerns fans don'ty get is the whole tsundere concept, they don't get that a tsundere refers to an outwardly violent character who ''runs hot and cold'', alternating between two distinct moods : tsuntusn (irritable) and deredere ( soft/caring), usually in the presence of the main character. They also don't get that a tundere usually began with a harsh outgoing personnality but slowly revealed a solf and vulnerable interior over time. Also note that the tsuntsun is shown as humour when the character that is in the receiving end of it  does somethng stupid. The westens fans that usually don't get this concept only see the violence whithout understanding why well you get fans pissed about how Sakura is so cruel toward Naruto. 

 

So you get fillers giving more relevance to Hinata while showing Sakura in a negative ways (even if it's for humour), you get fans wanting Hinata to save Naruto with her love from the kitteny Sakura. Adding this with her confessing to Naruto's rival well it just make them fuel there logic even more. 

 

At the start of shippuden, the NS moments, while subtle, were a lot more clear to see the shift on Sakura's part but what westerns fans never get to acknowledge (mostly because again, more anime fans and the anime show Sakura in a more negative light) was that there were moments long before that and yes, even on Sakura's part toward Naruto. While these early moments weren't necessarily saying hey, I love Naruto now, it was a start of her seeing Naruto in a different light and growing to eventually caring about him. Sakura blushing at Naruto's being more amazing than she first gave credit for, smiling tenderly looking at Naruto when Sasuke told her that it was Naruto that saved her were the deredere side showing, something that western fans don't get because like I said previously, they don't get the concept of a tsundere.

 

I think the mistakes was to play with too much subtle moments with NS, leaving an open door with NH that was growing more popular because of the anime while already having a stronger SS moment.

 

If for example, in the scene when Yamato speaks to Sakura holding an injured Naruto after his 4 tails transformation , Kishimoto should have finished Yamato's sentence. while it wouldn't have shut the door for SS completely since they already had Sakura confessing to Sasuke, at least it would have giving a more solid ground on NS.

From what I recall, some people took to her due to the anime adding her in the first episodes rooting for and wanting to be with Naruto. Then add in her fight with Neji and that's how she got most of her fans. Then the Giant Filler Arcs focused on her a lot just help fuel the fire.

 

So Dragon Ball has a different Main Heroine depending of the Arc? Videl/ChiChi are side characters that come out of nowhere with the solo function to produce more Saiyans.

Bulma is the only female Character with  consistent importance during the series to be qualified as a main Heroine.

About Digimon. None of Digimon Seasons was successful like the first season. Toei simply brought back the first cast to save the franchise.

I don't think they altered the pairings or even pushed Sora to Taichi in Tri.

The main point isn't unusual for a main girl loving someone different from the Protagonist or ending with the deuteragonist/Rival from the Series for japoneses.

 

People are turning their back on Boruto because they are trashing the old gen, I want to say the new gen in general is not interesting enough to carry the franchise when the old gen is there being useless.

Most of the Old Naruto fans are starving for real Naruto content: clan mysteries, ninja fights, Uchiha's and even some families Uchiha/Uzumaki moments judging by comments in Youtube. They just can't stand technology/alien Boruto stuff.

I really interested to know to which degree Kishi is envolved to Boruto when Ikemoto is ignoring everything he created in Naruto Universe.

Kishimoto didn't even make a single interview that he is even interested in Boruto.

Gohan was temporarily the main character during the Buu arc, before they went back to Goku, and Videl was clearly suppose to be the heroine and love interest during that time. The current arc is focused on Trunks so the love interest and heroine this arc is Mai.

 

Tri was an anniversary 6 Movie Saga with one of the storylines of both it and its sequel was Sora picking which boy she liked and introducing a girl that was clearly intended to be Taichi's girl.

 

The casual fanbase are turning their backs to Boruto, because they are bored of a story that goes nowhere.

 

Did you not see the interviews after the ending were Kishimoto went on and on about how he done with Naruto and wants to move on to a new manga? Said new manga, before it flopped, had 10 chapters that went on and on about how the Hero and the heroine are each other love interest and he is not changing that. Then when the cool rival was added with hints the heroine might be interested in him; the next chapter was about how the hero and the heroine are deeply in love with each other and would never sway? Did you read any of that?

 

Kishimoto is done with Boruto and handed it off to Ikemoto, but he is willing to help out his old assistant by giving hi some ideas if he need them.

 

Kishimoto has no plan. Everything going on right now is because the companies are tired of Boruto not making them the money they were promised.

 

While there are some execptions to the main male and female not becoming couples, it pretty much more common for them to get together in Japan media. Look at shaman king, yu yu hakusho, Tokyo Ghoul, kenshin, and any manga done by Rumiko Takahashi. Heck I'd argue in the west its still pretty common even today.

I'm starting to see more people treat this sasuke manga in a similar manner to boruto, mostly because using dinosaurs as antagonists is as stupid for many as the same sci-fi elements of aliens and technology that boruto used that doesn't feel natural in the naruto world. Plus the anime adaption doesn't help.

People wants mysticism in Naruto not sci-fi.

 

About Yu Yu Hakusho. Who is the Main Heroine? Keiko is pretty much useless in fights/plot. For the most of the series she only serves as spectator to care about Yusuke. While Botan have slightly more importance as a assistent in spiritual world. Using Yu Yu Hakusho as exemple Togashi made clear Keiko loved Yusuke since the Beggining.  He didn't made Keiko hugs Hiei (The Sasuke equivalent) everytime or declaring her Love to him.

I think NaruSaku fans should blame Kishimoto to a certain degree so show Sakura blindly in love in Sasuke in a point she was willing to  abandon everything to him and had to be stoped by the own Sasuke. This helped to completely outshine NaruSaku during part 1 and half of the part 2 and he still created Hinata as a secundary love interest to Naruto and made another love declaration...

Kishimoto created too many Rival Pairings to NaruSaku and in the end these pairings become more famous combined than the supposed main pairing.

The problem is that Kishimoto wrote for his Japanese audience. Where they only need a few scenes to convey something, assume the reader will understand, and can leave it till the end.

 

Where in the west you must beat any concept in the story over the reader's head till it dies in hopes they may get it. They won't.

 

Imagine this. Sakura fell in love with Sasuke due to the forehead comment. But it was really Naruto. Then, near the end Sasuke would reveal he never said the forehead comment when Sakura brings it up and says Naruto was the one who said it. Sakura is shocked then with prompting from Kakash, she looks back at all the moments she has with Naruto, realizes she loves Naruto. They get together and in the epilouge have a kid or two. That was the original plan before it was abandon for Hinata.

[Therece]

 

Gohan was temporarily the main character during the Buu arc, before they went back to Goku, and Videl was clearly suppose to be the heroine and love interest during that time. The current arc is focused on Trunks so the love interest and heroine this arc is Mai.

 

Tri was an anniversary 6 Movie Saga with one of the storylines of both it and its sequel was Sora picking which boy she liked and introducing a girl that was clearly intended to be Taichi's girl.

 

So i think you are saying the main Heroine is determined by the Arc or moment.
Gohan was the "protagonist" for this short time. So Videl was the Main Heroine as his partner at this time.

(I think most of the Videl moments are anime fillers)

Sasuke was the main Character for many arcs and fights in Manga. Ignoring the Part 1/Gaiden/Retsuden Moments with Sakura.
Karin was the Main Heroine in Part 2 in these arcs? Hinata was the Main Heroine in Pein Arc?
Ino the Main Heroine in Immortal Arcs? I don't think so. Sakura still is the main heroine.

Videl was only introduced as a future baby maker to Gohan nothing more or less. Bulma was the one who helped Goku in the entire classic DB, built a spacecraft and travelled to Namek and building a  time Machine send his son to the past to save the future.
Not to mention the GT/Super arcs. Bulma was the franchise main Heroine.

About the Digimon Tri thing. Toei even introduced a new girl only to serve as a love interest to Taichi.
So correct the "Yamato-Sora" pairing isn't the intention.
 

 

 

Did you not see the interviews after the ending were Kishimoto went on and on about how he done with Naruto and wants to move on to a new manga? Said new manga, before it flopped, had 10 chapters that went on and on about how the Hero and the heroine are each other love interest and he is not changing that. Then when the cool rival was added with hints the heroine might be interested in him; the next chapter was about how the hero and the heroine are deeply in love with each other and would never sway? Did you read any of that?

 

 

This just shows Kishimoto learned to don't turn the "red herrings" pairings more famous than the supposed Main one and don't make unnecessary and long love triangles in a Shonen. Only Hardcore NS fans will see these "underneath" evidences like the ForeHead thing while most of the casual readers will think otherwise with Sakura/Hinata declaring their love to Sasuke/Naruto.
This turned in a point he was forced to make SS/NH canon and ignore his plans if NS was really his original pairing.

Samurai 8 floped harder than Boruto even with him following this rule. People aren't interestent in him outside Naruto franchise and characters.

Too late for him.



 

Edited by Therece, 04 February 2023 - 03:03 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

To be honest it was more of Pierrot that overhyped nh, especially with episode 166. Plus frankly I think Al of fans biased towards the ship just kept ignoring narusaku moments because it wouldn't fit their agenda.

I'm pretty sure that samurai 8 flopped was because no one trusts him after what he did for the ending of naruto, kind of like how no one wants to see any new works from d&d after they ruined game of thrones for many people with season 8

Back to the the topic of the chapter so is sasuke using ice style or not? Also the raptor have now become a pet dog?

[ThroughWithLove]

 

This just shows Kishimoto learned to don't turn the "red herrings" pairings more famous than the supposed Main one and don't make unnecessary and long love triangles in a Shonen. Only Hardcore NS fans will see these "underneath" evidences like the ForeHead thing while most of the casual readers will think otherwise with Sakura/Hinata declaring their love to Sasuke/Naruto.

This turned in a point he was forced to make SS/NH canon and ignore his plans if NS was really his original pairing.
 

 

Sorry, but the forehead thing is not "underneath" evidence. Naruto and Sakura literally communicated the forehead thing in the 3rd chapter of the manga. Maybe don't ignore your own source material? And Naruto sincerely declared his love for Sakura (and was repeatedly displayed as being virtuous because of this love), so you'll forgive me for rooting for the title characters wants/ambitions over that of anyone else's (especially that of a side character who is largely irrelevant throughout the course of the story). The "red herring" is a garbage argument on par with claiming Sakura is a "kiba" level character. What happened is really simple: Kishimoto and his editors made a profit oriented decision on the financial product known as Naruto. This decision resulted in him taking the story in a direction other than what he originally intended. By no means was he "forced" to do anything. Writers/editors/producers do this all the time. There are numerous ideas in this manga that got abandoned for one reason or another (anyone remember the akatsuki rings?). Only people with overly fogged pairing goggles refuse to understand this. 

[Bail o' Lies]

To be honest it was more of Pierrot that overhyped nh, especially with episode 166. Plus frankly I think Al of fans biased towards the ship just kept ignoring narusaku moments because it wouldn't fit their agenda.

I'm pretty sure that samurai 8 flopped was because no one trusts him after what he did for the ending of naruto, kind of like how no one wants to see any new works from d&d after they ruined game of thrones for many people with season 8

Back to the the topic of the chapter so is sasuke using ice style or not? Also the raptor have now become a pet dog?

Like I said in the summary, he didn't use Ice style, he used wind style to freeze mist. Pretty much the same thing but I guess they weren't allowed to give him ice style for some reason. And yes, he has a pet raptor now. I'm expecting him to ride it in the next chapter or something.

 

So i think you are saying the main Heroine is determined by the Arc or moment.

Gohan was the "protagonist" for this short time. So Videl was the Main Heroine as his partner at this time.

(I think most of the Videl moments are anime fillers)

Sasuke was the main Character for many arcs and fights in Manga. Ignoring the Part 1/Gaiden/Retsuden Moments with Sakura.
Karin was the Main Heroine in Part 2 in these arcs? Hinata was the Main Heroine in Pein Arc?
Ino the Main Heroine in Immortal Arcs? I don't think so. Sakura still is the main heroine.

Videl was only introduced as a future baby maker to Gohan nothing more or less. Bulma was the one who helped Goku in the entire classic DB, built a spacecraft and travelled to Namek and building a  time Machine send his son to the past to save the future.
Not to mention the GT/Super arcs. Bulma was the franchise main Heroine.

About the Digimon Tri thing. Toei even introduced a new girl only to serve as a love interest to Taichi.
So correct the "Yamato-Sora" pairing isn't the intention.
 

This just shows Kishimoto learned to don't turn the "red herrings" pairings more famous than the supposed Main one and don't make unnecessary and long love triangles in a Shonen. Only Hardcore NS fans will see these "underneath" evidences like the ForeHead thing while most of the casual readers will think otherwise with Sakura/Hinata declaring their love to Sasuke/Naruto.
This turned in a point he was forced to make SS/NH canon and ignore his plans if NS was really his original pairing.

Samurai 8 floped harder than Boruto even with him following this rule. People aren't interestent in him outside Naruto franchise and characters.

Too late for him.

There are rules and there are exceptions to the rules. In the case of writing, it is not uncommon for a writer to go against a rule to make their story more interesting. Let's use a famous example. "Luke, I am Your Father." Before that, the big bad's faceless dark knight second in command was just something a hero defeated in story. It was a shock at the time, when Vader turned out to be Luke's father, also the wise mentor lied.

 

So an established rule in shounen is the heroine and love interest are often the same person.

 

Now to Dragonball. Do you believe Toriyama planned everything out till the end of the Buu arc from the start? How about till the cell saga? The Freeza/Namek arc? The Saiyan arc? The true answer is he only planned for the first arc at the start and was convinced to continue by his editor.

 

Goku is the main character/hero. Bulma is the Heroine, but not the love interest. Why? Because its clear if you watch/read Dragonball. Goku has no interest in sex. He likes food and fighting not fucking. So, Bulma was given Yamcha as her initial love interest, who was her intended. Until Toriyama wanted more Saiyans, and well there aren't that many female characters. So Bulma ended up with Vegeta to have Trunks. Ending her as being anyone else potential love interest. She is an important character and often the heroine just not the love interest for anyone else but Vegeta.

 

Gohan after the Cell saga was the hero into the early stage of the Buu arc. Do you honestly believe then, he must get with Bulma for the rule to work, or is that just you being pedantic? So, he was as the new main character quickly given his own love interest/heroine in Videl as Bulma was move to support character during this time.

 

Now the current manga arc for Dragon Ball Super is Trunks clearly from its first chapter, and it also makes clear his love interest in Mai. This arc will be focused on Trunks, Goten and Mai going up against Doctor Gero's grandson Hedo. Or do you believe he must have sex with his own mother?

 

Now GT the main character was Goku and the heroine was his granddaughter Pan. Do you believe Goku must have sex with his granddaughter for the general rule to hold up?

 

Now to Naruto. The intended plan was always for the forehead comment to be used to win over Sakura's heart. She was Naruto's love interest as well as the heroine. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean that Japanese didn't. As he was the main character. Sasuke and Shikamaru was given their own arc.

 

Sasuke was given his own arc during the hunt for Itachi arc where he formed his own team. Karin was introduce to make clear she was now his intended love interest was given traits similar to both Sakura and Naruto.

 

The immortals arc. Shikamaru was already set up with Temari long before Asuma's death. Ino was likely suppose to get with Chouji before Sai's introduction.

 

During the Pein arc the new editor that replaced Yahagi had Kishimoto give Hinata that moment with the intention of making her the heroine. Which led to a the mess that came after it.

 

Yamato and Sora getting together was always the plan from the start of Digimon. Again, because the creator was going against the rule they have said this many times in interviews. Tri was attempt to appease Taichi fans by giving him the best girl in the form of Miko.

 

Samurai 8 shows how badly Kishimoto regretted going along with the last minute change and tried to protect his new manga from suffering the same fate. If it was his choice alone why did he keep going  on and on about how Hachi and Anna must get together? If its just his lessoned learned, just move on. Instead it was constantly going on about it, in order to protect it from an editorial decision later on.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 05 February 2023 - 01:24 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

Ah my mistake, missread you then. Probably since haku's clan is only supposed to have ice style. Though at this point elements as bloodline abilities has just been broken for a rule too many times at this point.

We're you referencing a transformers age of extinction there?

[ThroughWithLove]

 

During the Pein arc the new editor that replaced Yahagi had Kishimoto give Hinata that moment with the intention of making her the heroine. Which led to a the mess that came after it.

 

The whole scene with Hinata does not even make sense. She's nowhere the entire fight leading up to this. Sakura's the one seen screaming for Naruto to come back. Sakura is the one seen giving Naruto a hug after the battle. Sakura is the one who spent the previous arcs fretting over how little of an impact she has on things and how little she is able to help Naruto. Everything points to SAKURA being the one to leap into a hopeless situation to save Naruto from death's door as opposed to Hinata (who has been NOWHERE throughout the entire timeskip leading up to that moment).  Hell, is it ever even explained why Sakura did NOT jump down there to help her teammate in this situation?

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 05 February 2023 - 01:40 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Ah my mistake, missread you then. Probably since haku's clan is only supposed to have ice style. Though at this point elements as bloodline abilities has just been broken for a rule too many times at this point.

We're you referencing a transformers age of extinction there?

No, I was just thinking of the dumbest idea they could possibly do. In a story about Ninja with mystical power, here is a guy ride a dino.

 

Anyways, I don't see why Sasuke couldn't use Ice style due to possessing the rinnegan.  They just wrote it out in such a way the I wonder if they couldn't give it to him.

 

The whole scene with Hinata does not even make sense. She's nowhere the entire fight leading up to this. Sakura's the one seen screaming for Naruto to come back. Sakura is the one seen giving Naruto a hug after the battle. Sakura is the one who spent the previous arcs fretting over how little of an impact she has on things and how little she is able to help Naruto. Everything points to SAKURA being the one to leap into a hopeless situation to save Naruto from death's door as opposed to Hinata (who has been NOWHERE throughout the entire timeskip leading up to that moment). 

Yep, but what can you do. Kishimoto trusted his new editor too much thinking their relationship would be like the one he had with Yahagi, until it was too late.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 05 February 2023 - 01:41 AM.

[Therece]

 

Sorry, but the forehead thing is not "underneath" evidence. Naruto and Sakura literally communicated the forehead thing in the 3rd chapter of the manga. Maybe don't ignore your own source material? And Naruto sincerely declared his love for Sakura (and was repeatedly displayed as being virtuous because of this love), so you'll forgive me for rooting for the title characters wants/ambitions over that of anyone else's (especially that of a side character who is largely irrelevant throughout the course of the story).

The Forehead discussion again. Please no.
I already said in the previus topic the reasons why i don't consider this moment important. At the best scenario Sakura would punch hard Naruto  if she ever discover he tried to deceive and kiss her disguised as a Sasuke. The PoaL and Yamato's Comments was much more powefull and true NaruSaku Moments.

Of course this evidence it's famous here because we are in NaruSaku Place full of NS fans. But if we bring this theory in a neutral place most of the others fans simply will laugh or ignore thats why i consider this a "underneath" evidence. it's hard. But outside here are many people who root for Sasuke, Sakura with Sasuke and Hinata.

Which chapter Naruto made a confession to Sakura?
If Naruto actually have confessed his love to Sakura like Sakura did to Sasuke in 181 and Hinata in 437. NaruSaku would a have a much more powerfull support.

But unfortunately all we got was Sai getting the wrong ideia about PoaL and declaring Naruto's love in his place.
Sakura feeling guilty. Naruto saying he was chasing Sasuke for himself not Sakura.
Sakura confession to Naruto was the only of the three love confessions in manga who was painted as a False .
This moment serious damaged the entire growth of Sakura's feelings  to Naruto through part 2 and the PoaL for NS.
 
Thats why i think Naruto didn't declared his love for Sakura when Sasuke come Back and Sakura simply didn't care about Naruto's feelings at all when she wanted to leave the Village with Sasuke AGAIN.

 

 

Gohan after the Cell saga was the hero into the early stage of the Buu arc. Do you honestly believe then, he must get with Bulma for the rule to work, or is that just you being pedantic? So, he was as the new main character quickly given his own love interest/heroine in Videl as Bulma was move to support character during this time.

 

Now the current manga arc for Dragon Ball Super is Trunks clearly from its first chapter, and it also makes clear his love interest in Mai. This arc will be focused on Trunks, Goten and Mai going up against Doctor Gero's grandson Hedo. Or do you believe he must have sex with his own mother?

 

Now GT the main character was Goku and the heroine was his granddaughter Pan. Do you believe Goku must have sex with his granddaughter for the general rule to hold up?

Abolutely not.
You're the only  one confuding the concept of Protagonist HouseWife or Baby maker = Main Heroine.
The Franchise just have one Main Heroine.  There's no thing as a "arc Main heroine"
Again the point is  the girl doesn't need to marry the protagonist or fell in love with him  to become the main Heroine.

 

Neither this status helped chichi or Hinata to become more popular or have relevance outside fillers especially Hinata who was pretty much nonexistent outside Pierrot FanFics.



 

Edited by Therece, 05 February 2023 - 03:14 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

The Forehead discussion again. Please no.
I already said in the previus topic the reasons why i don't consider this moment important. At the best scenario Sakura would punch hard Naruto  if she ever discover he tried to deceive and kiss her disguised as a Sasuke. The PoaL and Yamato's Comments was much more powefull and true NaruSaku Moments.

Of course this evidence it's famous here because we are in NaruSaku Place full of NS fans. But if we bring this theory in a neutral place most of the others fans simply will laugh or ignore thats why i consider this a "underneath" evidence.
Which chapter Naruto made a confession to Sakura?
If Naruto actually have confessed his love to Sakura like Sakura did to Sasuke in 181 and Hinata in 437. NaruSaku would a have a much more powerfull support.

But unfortunately all we got was Sai getting the wrong ideia about PoaL and declaring Naruto's love in his place.
Sakura feeling guilty. Naruto saying he was chasing Sasuke for himself not Sakura.
Sakura confession to Naruto was the only of the three love confessions in manga who was painted as a False .
This moment serious damaged the entire growth of Sakura's feelings  to Naruto through part 2 and the PoaL for NS.
 
Thats why i think Naruto didn't declared his love for Sakura when Sasuke come Back and Sakura simply didn't care about Naruto's feelings at all when she wanted to leave the Village with Sasuke AGAIN.
 
 
Abolutely not.
You're the only  one confuding the concept of Protagonist HouseWife or Baby maker = Main Heroine.
The Franchise just have one Main Heroine.  There's no thing as a "arc Main heroine"
Again the point is  the girl doesn't need to marry the protagonist or fell in love with him  to become the main Heroine.
 
Neither this status helped chichi or Hinata to become more popular or have relevance outside fillers especially Hinata who was pretty much nonexistent outside Pierrot FanFics.



 

 
Of course the forehead scene is important it literally shows us Sakura's biggest insecurity about herself and that Naruto likes that part about her! Yes she might hit him at first, but she is a tsundere she will at first get mad at him then show affection that's how those two work. It was also paralleled with how kushina fell in love with minato when naruto met his mother, which anyone can see if they paid attention and not dissmiss it as a NS fan theory! Heck sakura thinking that sasuke said it is the only reason why I think she could possibly like him, which just shows she has a false idea of what he is like and that naruto is the ideal guy for her. 
 
Naruto was most likely to confess his feelings to sakura after he recused sasuke, but even then he confirmed to sai that he does love sakura so it should of been obvious at that point how he feels about her. The only problem with the NaruSaku confession is that we don't get a follow up to it, because it was clear that the part about not caring about sasuke was false however that doesn't mean what she said about loving him wasn't a lie and was actually the part of the confession that was true. Could it have been handled better yeah sure, but it is not as bad as fans made it out to be, which mainly end up being mostly nh and ss because it fits their agenda and narrative. Heck naruto doesn't seem that mad with sakura afterwards and even said she was his girlfriend to his dad when he asked about that. 

Frankly the ss and nh confession aren't really that impressive when you think about it. Hinata's was a suicide charge that nearly got her killed and even she admitted that she was being selfish. While I have already said that the SS feels more like a rejection, as Sakura is desperately trying to get sasuke to stay but like sasuke says she is not like him and doesn'y truly understand him and calls her annoying, heck the same thing in 693 and after that their is no way they should of gotten together after that.

The reason that we never got to see a second narusaku confession was because kishimoto gave up and listened to his editors and did bad writting to make ss and nh to be canon rather than NaruSaku. But if you won't listen to me why not hear what Chatte has to say about the confession which you can find on the video 24 minutes in https://www.youtube....oLKlFGIiDI&t=2s
 
As for Heronie = love interest while yes doesn't mean that the 2 are the same they are often tied together, mostly because they tend to have the most screen time together between boy and girl. Which unfortunately us and the girls in Naruto that was how the fandom in Naruto mainly the shippers sees it and so did studio Pierrot and the jump editors and they pushed hinata to replace Sakura starting with the Last movie only for it to backfire on them.

https://chatte-georg...tion-of-hinata/

https://chatte-georg...arity-neji-hyu/

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 05 February 2023 - 11:24 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Absolutely not.

You're the only one confusing the concept of Protagonist HouseWife or Baby maker = Main Heroine.
The Franchise just have one Main Heroine.  There's no thing as a "arc Main heroine"
Again the point is  the girl doesn't need to marry the protagonist or fell in love with him  to become the main Heroine.

 

Neither this status helped chichi or Hinata to become more popular or have relevance outside fillers especially Hinata who was pretty much nonexistent outside Pierrot FanFics.

It is however the norm and the expected for the heroine to also be the love interest in shounen stories. With stories that go against rule both knowing of the rule and with the intention of doing so.

 

Bulma is the overall Heroine of Dragonball, I will not disagree with that, nor do I feel that I have. I just focused on other aspects of the discussion. However, that does not means she has always been apart of the cast the story is focus on at the time.

 

At the start of the Buu arc she was moved to major support character, so that arc can focus on the next generation. Originally, with Gohan as the hero and Videl the daughter of the man who stole credit for defeating Cell as his love interest and Heroine. Just because it was dropped does not remove the original intention.

 

DragonBall GT is a story focused on Goku and his granddaughter Pan. Bulma again is in the spot of important side/secondary character.

 

The New Super arc focuses on Trunks and Goten in high-school playing super hero with Mai as Trunk's love interest and last chapter showed she will be involved in the story.

 

If I thought that being the hero's baby maker as you call them makes them the heroine, then I ask? Have I called Chichi the heroine at any point in this discussion? She was always intended to be just the mother of Goku's children as she the only one willing to go that far to be with him.

 

Hinata was given the status heroine and love interest of Naruto due to perceived international popularity.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 05 February 2023 - 09:55 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

No, I was just thinking of the dumbest idea they could possibly do. In a story about Ninja with mystical power, here is a guy ride a dino.
 
Anyways, I don't see why Sasuke couldn't use Ice style due to possessing the rinnegan.  They just wrote it out in such a way the I wonder if they couldn't give it to him.
 

Yep, but what can you do. Kishimoto trusted his new editor too much thinking their relationship would be like the one he had with Yahagi, until it was too late.

Yeah in naruto riding dinosaur would be stupid, an actual dragon would be much more believable. Only one piece could get away with riding a dinosaur due to its world building.

Probably because him having bloodline powers outside the uhchia would make more broken and op than he already is.

Kishimoto should of just listened to yahagi last advice of not listening to his editors, at least when it came to his heroine and romance.

[Therece]

Wasn't Sasuke, Sakura, Love Triangle, and many things Yahagi Idea?
Many nH stans likes to say Hinata was Kishimoto original idea  using some old panel as evidence.

Well anyone will agree Naruto's story was much better overhall when  Yahagi was supervisioning.  Ignoring pairings the story become a train wreck after Itachi's death and Pein Arc with overpower eyes, ridiculous battles, Hashirama's cell, prophecies/Bijuus who completly kittens on hard work theme and even alliens

But i don't give too much credit to him related to NaruSaku. Part 1 was heavily SS focused and Yahagi helped Kishi to make chapter 181.  These SS Moments and SS final declaration helped too much to consolidate SasuSaku as a famous/strong pairing and outshine NaruSaku. This Sakura's declaration even get the top 1 ranking in a japonese poll as the most emotional scene supering PoaL, Hiruzen's death and others sad moments in part 1

NaruSaku only gained popularity as possible couple for casual readers after Yamato's comment and some fillers in anime but this didn't helpd too much, since soon later Kishimoto made Hinata's declaration.

 

 

As for Heronie = love interest while yes doesn't mean that the 2 are the same they are often tied together, mostly because they tend to have the most screen time together between boy and girl. Which unfortunately us and the girls in Naruto that was how the fandom in Naruto mainly the shippers sees it and so did studio Pierrot and the jump editors and they pushed hinata to replace Sakura starting with the Last movie only for it to backfire on them.
 

 

Ironically most of the SS fans are composed of hardcore Sakura and female fans. They like Sasuke too since for them he is much better/interesting than Naruto. But the Sakura side is much stronger.  SS and nH are fighting now just to prove which canon pairing is the better one and because Hinata stans like to provoke Sakura fans.
But SS side never thought Sakura's heroine status was threatened by Hinata. Damn it, most of the SS fans used Hinata  at the pairings wars days just to get Naruto away from Sasuke and Sakura just to show how little they care about Naruto's character.
 

 

If I thought that being the hero's baby maker as you call them makes them the heroine, then I ask? Have I called Chichi the heroine at any point in this discussion? She was always intended to be just the mother of Goku's children as she the only one willing to go that far to be with him.

 

 

Bulma is the overall Heroine of Dragonball, I will not disagree with that, nor do I feel that I have. I just focused on other aspects of the discussion. However, that does not means she has always been apart of the cast the story is focus on at the time.

 

Because Chi Chi is the closest thing DB have to Hinata model. Not Videl, Pan 18 or whatever female...

So the Point was made. Sakura in the ovehall Heroine. Just because Hinata gained more focus in a FanFic movie or got the Naruto's houseWife paper she didn't steal sakura's role.

Edited by Therece, 05 February 2023 - 03:20 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

The Forehead discussion again. Please no.
I already said in the previus topic the reasons why i don't consider this moment important. At the best scenario Sakura would punch hard Naruto  if she ever discover he tried to deceive and kiss her disguised as a Sasuke. The PoaL and Yamato's Comments was much more powefull and true NaruSaku Moments.

 

 

Sounds like you're looking at the forehead scene in a vacuum as opposed to considering it in the context of the followup moments you mention. I would agree that Sakura would punch Naruto hard since that's what tsundere characters do, but we can get into tons of tsundere romances akin to what was being showcased with Naruto and Sakura if you prefer.

 

 

Of course this evidence it's famous here because we are in NaruSaku Place full of NS fans. But if we bring this theory in a neutral place most of the others fans simply will laugh or ignore thats why i consider this a "underneath" evidence. it's hard. 

 

If people are inclined to laugh about a canonical event in the series, doesn't sound like a neutral place to me. Sounds like what you consider 'neutral" is stiff necked mouth foaming pairing goggle fans. And if we were to bring your position on this subject to 12 random people off the street with no knowledge or preconceived biases about the series, I don't think you'd be able to convince a single person that the author planned any of this stuff out and that he didn't simply change his mind his mind about Naruto and Sakura's relationship.

 

 

But outside here are many people who root for Sasuke, Sakura with Sasuke and Hinata.

 

A problem with a lot of your arguments here is that you keep going back to what "many people" allegedly think and believe. Who cares? Argumentem ad populam. Many people once elected Adolf Hitler to become the leader of Germany. If we're talking about the objective merits of a fictional story, it makes no difference what many people alleged to think or believe. 

 

Which chapter Naruto made a confession to Sakura?

If Naruto actually have confessed his love to Sakura like Sakura did to Sasuke in 181 and Hinata in 437. NaruSaku would a have a much more powerfull support.

 

Naruto never confessed his love to Sakura. He said he loved Sakura. That's chapter 3. That's chapter 457. And if Naruto actually had confessed his love to Sakura, it certainly would be a more powerful expression on the author's part. As it stands, however, we have Naruto's statements, we Sakura's statements, we have parallels. What's more, unlike Sakura and Hinata, Naruto is the main character. His thoughts/goals/ambitions take precedent over anyone else's since the story is about his life and goals.

 

But unfortunately all we got was Sai getting the wrong ideia about PoaL and declaring Naruto's love in his place.

 

I've gone over this before in another thread here, but Sai's comments are pretty inconsistent. He gives two separate explanations on why he decided speak out. Whatever ideas Kishimoto had in mind throughout the course of chapters 457 and 458, they got scrapped in 459 and definitively got scrapped over the course of 469 to 474. 

 

Speaking of the POAL, it never gets referenced again after these chapters. Please justify that from a writers perspective and do so in a manner that does not acknowledge it was scrapped.

 

 

Sakura feeling guilty. Naruto saying he was chasing Sasuke for himself not Sakura.

 

Why would Naruto say that? Why would the author not instead have him say he is doing it for himself and Sakura (which would be consistent with the POAL)? Do you see where I'm going here?

 

 

Sakura confession to Naruto was the only of the three love confessions in manga who was painted as a False .

This moment serious damaged the entire growth of Sakura's feelings  to Naruto through part 2 and the PoaL for NS. 

 

Which was the intention. If NH and SS were the endgame from the beginning, there would be no need for this scene. Do you see where I'm going here?

 

 

 

Thats why i think Naruto didn't declared his love for Sakura when Sasuke come Back and Sakura simply didn't care about Naruto's feelings at all when she wanted to leave the Village with Sasuke AGAIN.

 

 

Agreed. As you have assisted myself and others in establishing, the author changed his mind. 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 05 February 2023 - 05:28 PM.

[Phantom_999]

 
First i wans't trying to gaslight anoyone just saying facts.
SAKURA NEVER WAS REMOVED FROM HER HEROINE POSITION.
Honestly you people really need to stop thinking  NS Canon =  Main Heroine.

Sakura was in Team 7 sealing Kaguya in the final arc. Not Hinata.
Hinata has no importance in Bort Manga aside randomlys slapping Kawaki.
Hinata wasn't important in Salad Gaiden who fully focused in the rival Family. Ignoring SasuSaku. Uchiha Clan (Which Sakura is part now) was much more important to Kishimoto than Naruto/Hinata or Naruto's own clan.
Hinata didn't gained a Full Manga.
Hinata isn't even promoted in the 20y trailler special.
Sakura even have much more novels focused on her.


Kishi isn't stupid to call his main characters Toxic.
By the Same logic the Sasuke/Naruto  was the pinacle of toxity and this duo was the reason behind manga sucess. The only thing that he said that Sakura was a bad woman for him if she move on from Sasuke (The Point of the Fake Confession) and he felt contrived to write about Romances. Kishimoto already said he doesn't know or like to write romances. That why he always avoided to write About deliberate romance and let for novels/Pierrot fully developed the Pairings.  Where was stated the Sarada Gaiden was a OneShot and Kishimoto only made a Full volume because Sexist Acusations? Now i want the Source. Not some Random Twiiter/Facebook with some fake/biased Interview .

Hinata was  some Producers Favorite in Pierrot.
if you people really think Hinata was more important than Sasuke/Sakura/Naruto to Kishimoto and he only made SS canon to help the poor Hinata Sama. You are all deluding yourselves.
The own Protagonist was ignored much more in his manga and can't even gain proper a Win in the final because Kishimoto's love for Sasuke...
NS was open with Kushina's parallel.
SS  was Open Since 181 with contant reminders by Sakura's feelings depeding only by Sasuke's return.
NH by Hinata confession.
SasuKarin was a Joke.

SS was Popular in Japan and Kishimoto thought was Hinata popular in West Side. It was a Win/Win situation for him at least more than NaruSaku and SasuKarin/Sasuke alone
(Ikemoto ruined Boruto with his boring Story. Not even Sakura being Naruto's HouseWife is enough to save Bort Series.)

 
And you need to stop assuming we support Naruto and Sakura's relationship because we are lalaland shippers with shipping goggles on 100% of the time. We never said Sakura was SUPPOSED to be Naruto's wife/ girlfriend because she is the heroine. THROUGH OUT THE STORY, I repeat THROUGHTOUT THE STORY It has shown time and time again that Naruto was in love with Sakura, and puts her happiness above his well being with the POAL, whereas Sakura shows the typical love interest tropes associated with the girl that is suppose to be the love interest, particularly after the time skip. She emotionally supports Naruto, encourages him when he needs it and she happens to be there, heals him when he is injured, offered to feed him when he couldn't do it him, self hugged him in front of a large crowd etc. etc. That was practically spelling out out that she is the love interest and in any other series that has any of that, it was guaranteed. Then it changed last minute and to  top it all off "The Last" invalidates major parts of the story by saying Naruto was never serious about Sakura so as to not make Hinata look like a cheap silver medal. That just destroyed a major theme in the story on why Naruto made the POAL to Sakura, because he would never have made it if he WASN'T serious about her. We are not against the current pairings because Sakura is the heroine= Sakura should be the one Naruto marries. We are against the current pairings because Naruto was hardly shown with Hinata in a romantic light, much less that they had believable chemistry for a couple and Sasuke has shown mostly toxic abusive behavior towards Sakura, As anyone that has ever been in a toxic abusive relationship can attest to. Naruto and Sakura on the other hand, had a good relationship going for them and the the so called canon movie destroyed their very friendship and a major part of Naruto's character. SS and NH becoming canon just because of popularity and because the authorities say they were always planned is not indicative of anything if you look purely at the plot of the series. 
 
And by your "appeal to popularity logic", SS isn't the most popular pairing in Japan It Is Kakashi and Iruka so go ahead tell me Iruka and Kakashi should be married and show me a photo of  Iruka wearing a wedding dress and Kakashi in a groom suit. Go on.

Edited by Phantom_999, 06 February 2023 - 03:00 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

Wasn't Sasuke, Sakura, Love Triangle, and many things Yahagi Idea?
Many nH stans likes to say Hinata was Kishimoto original idea  using some old panel as evidence.

Well anyone will agree Naruto's story was much better overhall when  Yahagi was supervisioning.  Ignoring pairings the story become a train wreck after Itachi's death and Pein Arc with overpower eyes, ridiculous battles, Hashirama's cell, prophecies/Bijuus who completly kittens on hard work theme and even alliens

But i don't give too much credit to him related to NaruSaku. Part 1 was heavily SS focused and Yahagi helped Kishi to make chapter 181.  These SS Moments and SS final declaration helped too much to consolidate SasuSaku as a famous/strong pairing and outshine NaruSaku. This Sakura's declaration even get the top 1 ranking in a japonese poll as the most emotional scene supering PoaL, Hiruzen's death and others sad moments in part 1

NaruSaku only gained popularity as possible couple for casual readers after Yamato's comment and some fillers in anime but this didn't helpd too much, since soon later Kishimoto made Hinata's declaration.

 

 

 

Ironically most of the SS fans are composed of hardcore Sakura and female fans. They like Sasuke too since for them he is much better/interesting than Naruto. But the Sakura side is much stronger.  SS and nH are fighting now just to prove which canon pairing is the better one and because Hinata stans like to provoke Sakura fans.
But SS side never thought Sakura's heroine status was threatened by Hinata. Damn it, most of the SS fans used Hinata  at the pairings wars days just to get Naruto away from Sasuke and Sakura just to show how little they care about Naruto's character.
 

 

 

Because Chi Chi is the closest thing DB have to Hinata model. Not Videl, Pan 18 or whatever female...

So the Point was made. Sakura in the ovehall Heroine. Just because Hinata gained more focus in a FanFic movie or got the Naruto's houseWife paper she didn't steal sakura's role.

 

Yahagi recommenced Kishimoto create sasuke to help the stroy going forward and sakura to cause more of a rivalry between naruto and sasuke. If you are referring to that hinata drawing in a dress, that was just kishimoto drawing her to show members of his staff what Hinata was like. Yes Naruto went down hill after yahagi with the jinjurki arc between the kage summit and war arc being the only good arc, because kishimoto got help from his wife on how to write it.

I wouldn't call part 1 heavily ss focused, while yes they interacted alot part 1 Narusaku intreacted just as much if not more on some occasions. You had alot of moments of sakura being impressed with naruto in the land of waves and chunnin exams arc, even blushing in some of those moments and cheering him on in his fights in the chunin exams and vice versa when sakura fought against ino. Plus their was the gaara fight where Naruto risked his life to safe her and her learning about it later. So it wasn't just the promise of a lifetime in Part 1 and a few moments in early part 2. Plus just because SS and a few nice moments in part 1 does not justify their relationship especially with what happens between them in part 2. 

I don't care if most sasusaku fans are female or male, they should have more self respect about how their ship became canon. If Narusaku became canon like how ss did I would not be happy about it, heck I stopped shipping SS myself when I realised how toxic the ship was to the character (plus how Hinata/NH fans behaved). 

 

Chi chi isn't anything like Hianat, she more of a tsundere type like sakura. Technically Hinata did, it was just a flop and they can't go back to narusaku so they reduced both sakura and hinata from the spotlight. Frankly SS and NH and can argue as much as they like over which is better with Boruto or Retsuden, they both suck and add in elements like aliens and dinosaurs that don'r really fit into naruto and get mocked at by people who aren't die hard fans of their ships.

[Bail o' Lies]

Because Chi Chi is the closest thing DB have to Hinata model. Not Videl, Pan 18 or whatever female...

So the Point was made. Sakura in the overall Heroine. Just because Hinata gained more focus in a FanFic movie or got the Naruto's House-Wife paper she didn't steal sakura's role.

Chichi was not the norm in shounen. But happened due to the circumstance of Dragonball. Goku not being interested in women, and Toriyama not really seeing him and Bulma as a couple. The norm is Heroine/love interest which is even the case in Dragon Ball with any other Hero/Main Character that is not Goku.

 

Hinata was given the role of heroine by the ending. It was to reward her for her popularity and in hope to boost sales, because Sakura was too hated to be the heroine anymore. The Japanese, Kishimoto, and The companies themselves consider this the case. It was after the last flopped that they started walking back on this. You seem to think that, "if it isn't the case right now, then it was never the case."

 

Ironically most of the SS fans are composed of hardcore Sakura and female fans. They like Sasuke too since for them he is much better/interesting than Naruto. But the Sakura side is much stronger.  SS and nH are fighting now just to prove which canon pairing is the better one and because Hinata stans like to provoke Sakura fans.

But SS side never thought Sakura's heroine status was threatened by Hinata. Damn it, most of the SS fans used Hinata  at the pairings wars days just to get Naruto away from Sasuke and Sakura just to show how little they care about Naruto's character.

Both sides disliked and used each other. It was a fragile alliance based on hatred and self interest, it was always going to fall apart once NS was removed.

 

Wasn't Sasuke, Sakura, Love Triangle, and many things Yahagi Idea?
Many nH stans likes to say Hinata was Kishimoto original idea  using some old panel as evidence.

Well anyone will agree Naruto's story was much better overall when  Yahagi was supervisioning.  Ignoring pairings the story become a train wreck after Itachi's death and Pein Arc with overpower eyes, ridiculous battles, Hashirama's cell, prophecies/Bijuus who completly kittens on hard work theme and even alliens

But i don't give too much credit to him related to NaruSaku. Part 1 was heavily SS focused and Yahagi helped Kishi to make chapter 181.  These SS Moments and SS final declaration helped too much to consolidate SasuSaku as a famous/strong pairing and outshine NaruSaku. This Sakura's declaration even get the top 1 ranking in a Japanese poll as the most emotional scene supering PoaL, Hiruzen's death and others sad moments in part 1

NaruSaku only gained popularity as possible couple for casual readers after Yamato's comment and some fillers in anime but this didn't helped too much, since soon later Kishimoto made Hinata's declaration.

I'm going to over what I understand Kishimoto's original plans were and how Yahagi changed it.  

 

Originally. Naruto was suppose to be a demon fox kit taking the form of a human child that came from a hidden ninja village in the mountains that moved to the big city to bond with people, have talking animals as his mentors, and end up becoming a ramen chief. The idea of the love interest was probably already there just not fully realized as Kishimoto was bad at drawing girls at the time. Yahagi made him abandon the modern world and focus on the hidden ninja village. Then Naruto went from a fox demon kit to a child with a fox demon inside him. And Yahagi told him to not do the talking animals as the main mentor.

 

Originally. Naruto was suppose to be Kakashi's only student. You can see a remnant of it in the Wave arc as Zabuza and Haku are dark parallels to Kakashi's and Naruto's master student relationship. Yahagi told him he needed a rival to make things interesting. Kishimoto researched and came up with Sasuke. For some reason at this point he dropped the 1 Master-Student thing and made teams. So, Naruto the hero, Sasuke the rival he just came up with, and Sakura the heroine and love interest he finally decided on was added in, thus became a team. I don't recall any interview where Kishimoto said Yahagi was behind Sakura's creation just Sasuke's and people assume he also order Sakura as well.

 

Originally, Kishimoto wanted team 7 to go on more missions to explore the world. This is where Hinata comes in. Kishimoto early on had difficulties drawing cute girls. Hinata-like girl was his first success at drawing a cute girl that his staff liked. So, she would be a villager in the next mission Team 7 went on. Probably to bond with Naruto and make Sakura jealous. This was abandon as Yahagi told him to speed the story along to the chunin exam. But, because she was the first cute girl his staff like so he added her to the exam as a character connected to the tournament rival's story, Neji and she became Hinata.

 

Originally, he just wanted to do a straight tournament arc with the surprise being the Shikamaru would be the winner. Yahagi told him to make it more engaging. First by making a villain, Orochimaru, and then having the villain, Orochimaru, attack the village during the tournament.

 

Yahagi directed, but it was still up to Kishimoto to make it. Its why Naruto went into a slow decline after Yahagi left instead of outright imploding. 

 

You seem really dismissive of the Japanese and their importance to manga. Hell you refused to even spell 'Japanese' right. Naruto was written by a Japanese person with a Japanese cultural understanding of plot and writing. If you refuse to learn anything about how they write stories even when people are explaining it to you, can you at least understand that they do some things different there that the West doesn't do?