39 replies to this topic

[Therece]

 

 

 

Are you saying Iruka isn't an important character? Go to Japan find some people that read Naruto and say that. You will completely stump them.

clan political situation of the hyuuga clan made it ideal.

 

 

I don't deny Iruka Popularity. But he isn't important to the actual story aside to be the first Naruto teacher.

Iruka is famous in Japan... The same for Hinata in the West. 

She even have more painel time than Iruka.

If you find him important. Hinata is important too.

 

 

Yet, here we are today with Boruto, with NH+SS and without NS: the franchises manga sales lost its > 95% of the revenue. Not a strictly proof by contraposition, but hard facts nonetheless. Something that less intelligent folks are having difficulty to accept.

250 million copies in 15 years vs barely 4 million in 7+ years. More than 2 million copies each volume vs less than 100k copies each volume.

 

It's simply because Boruto story is trash and abandoned popular pilares from the Naruto

Boruto's flop is a combination of Ikemoto Art + uninteresting plot and characters + Complete abandonment of what made Naruto series famous like Uchihas, Team 7 and Shinobi lore.

 

NH and especially SS fans don't support Boruto...  They have zero interest to see Boruto with his alliens problems while Uchiha family is ignored...

I'm certain even Hinata and NH fans give zero support to Boruto's story. She is simply ignored despite being the mon of the "new protagonist"

 

This SasuSaku manga is a desperate attempt to bring old Sasuke, Sakura, Uchiha and SS fans or see if they  still are financially profitable...

Edited by Therece, 06 January 2023 - 04:05 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Hinata and Iruka are not on the same level of importance. Hinata is as influential of a character as any other character that was thrown to the side and forgotten about. Even though Iruka is shown less than her he is frequently acknowledged as Naruto' first bond and the one that is most impressionable to the story besides Sasuke's. Several characters acknowledge it, so denying he is important just because he does not appear much is a fallacy.
 

Honestly i will not discurss or defend SS  in a NS forum. Neither i'm intested in this. I originally preferred NS. But i don't despise/hate SS. I just undertand they have the bare mimimum interaction and important moments especially in Part 1 to be a couple at the end and at the same time the most Popular Naruto pairing in Japan easily surpassing both NaruSaku/NaruHina. Maybe even in west.

But if you really want to know or discurss that. Twiiter/Quora/Tumblr/Facebook are full of SasuSaku groups and pages who happily wanted to discuss/show this moments and how important these moments are to Sasuke/Sakura, if you don't disrespect their favorite pairing.

The only point is the Forehead comment wans't important to Sakura fell in love with Sasuke. She already had a  crush with Sasuke before that and began to care genuinely about him as a person during part 1/part2.  She didn't even bring back her forehead complex and how "Sasuke" praised her forehead when she had the opportunity to talk about this with the true  Sasuke.

read my comment again
 i'm surprised exactly because that. Nobody even mentioned or make any comment about her pink Hair.
Like i said i think Sakura's pink Hair much more unique than her forehead.

 
Then a word of advice, don't debate Sasuke and Sakura's relationship as if there is genuine love between them. If you admit to neutrality to pairings then that means you take it for what it is. Being popular or the what not does not make it a good relationship and it is not a good idea to compare it Naruto and Sakura's relationship that had genuine development and friendship built upon it. I repeat, by all means acknowledge the relationship as canon but don't pretend like the two are in a genuine loving and healthy relationship unless you are speaking to genuine SS shippers if you DON'T WANT debates thrown your way.
 
As for Sakura's Pink hair I'll leave at this. Yes it is more impressionable than her fore head on the surface but as I will always repeat it was Sakura's forehead that was talked about in the story. Saying  that you find it her pink hair is her most unique feature is how you feel as a viewer, and there is nothing wrong with that, and I admit the relationship between her and Sasuke is nothing about her forehead, but Ino and Naruto and Sakura's childhood bullies DID comment on it meaning "in story" her forehead is what gives an impression to other characters. If you can not differentiate how you feel from what I'm saying, we've reached an impasse.

Edited by Phantom_999, 03 January 2023 - 08:53 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I beleive James once said in terms of pannel time tenten has more than hinata of all people, bit you don't hear people say how important she is.

[Therece]

Hinata and Iruka are not on the same level of importance. Hinata is as influential of a character as any other character that was thrown to the side and forgotten about. Even though Iruka is shown less than her he is frequently acknowledged as Naruto' first bond and the one that is most impressionable to the story besides Sasuke's. Several characters acknowledge it, so denying he is important just because he does not appear much is a fallacy.
 

 
Then a word of advice, don't debate Sasuke and Sakura's relationship as if there is genuine love between them. If you admit to neutrality to pairings then that means you take it for what it is. Being popular or the what not does not make it a good relationship and it is not a good idea to compare it Naruto and Sakura's relationship that had genuine development and friendship built upon it. I repeat, by all means acknowledge the relationship as canon but don't pretend like the two are in a genuine loving and healthy relationship unless you are speaking to genuine SS shippers if you DON'T WANT debates thrown your way.
 

 

Hinata and NH fans would say the same thing.
Just because you hate the character or the pairing, this didn't diminish their importance. Both Hinata and Iruka are important to Naruto's character in differents ways.
Iruka's was Naruto's first teacher while Hinata tried to save Naruto against Pein and comforted him in Neji's death...

For me both Hinata and Iruka are irrelevant to the main manga Story evolving Sasuke, Uchihas, Team 7 and Akatsuki, ignoring fandom preferences.
Hinata even have slight more painel time than Iruka.
 

 

The same thing don't  diminish a rival pairing just because you hate them... Calling Sakura's feelings for Sasuke shallow is just denial at this point.
The same argument could work against NaruSaku like many NS haters likes to say and The Last made their own headcanon about this:
Naruto initially only loved Sakura back in the academy because she was the most beautiful  and intelligent Sasuke Fangirl...

 

My original point is only Sakura's pink hair and how i think it's more unique than her forehead...

It's  hard to don't talk about SS in  a topic about a SS manga.

But whatever.
 

Edited by Therece, 04 January 2023 - 06:47 PM.

[Therece]

Their answer to that is Boruto isn't Naruto therefor its fans didn't support it because it wasn't Naruto. Despite the fact that Naruto and Sasuke are major characters, in the top ten of importance at the minimum.

Naruto and Sasuke are mainly used as a plot device to hype villains and the other rookies are too irrelevant. Naruto only exists to affect Kawaki and Sasuke rarely appears.

Why Sasuke's fans should care about Boruto?
Sasuke is just a pathetic shadow of his oldself.
He didn't have importants fights beside the one in the original Boruto movie/Gaiden. He's nerfed and was ridiculous stabed in the eye.
He doesn't have objectives,importance or  even his past glorious uchiha  pride...
He is just Boruto teacher.
Sakura is non existent.
Sarada hardly have any importance or interact with Sasuke/Sakura.

Naruto is a pathetic Hokage figure who ignore his family and now lost 90% of his strenght when Kurama died.

Hinata and her ugly daughter doesn't exist.

Only Boruto.

Buruto failed miserable as a fanservice/Story for Sasuke, Naruto, SS and NH fans. They simply didn't care or even hate  Boruto  manga...

Like i said this SasuSaku manga is a desperate attempt to bring old Sasuke, Sakura, Uchiha and SS fans or see if they  still are financially profitable...

 

 

Edited by Therece, 04 January 2023 - 02:57 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Well, I'm glad there is a discussion in these summary topics went on without me having to keep it going.

 

Still agree with Phantom. The Pink hair may stand out to you, Therece, but the story never cared about it. It cared about the forehead. Even the pink hair wouldn't matter in this side manga if her name wasn't "Sakura."

 

https://www.fandomsp...ed-anime-girls/

 

"Top 60 Cutest Pink-Haired Anime Girls: The Best Of All Time" She is #10. So for the intended audience, shounen manga readers, Pink Hair is not that uncommon.

 

I think I answered the bench scene on the NaruSaku discussion thread a few months back. Both the comment and joking about it made it seem like 'Sasuke' was letting down his guard and showing Sakura the "real" him. Something he has never done to anyone else as far as she knows; making her feel special. Which is why her crush turned into love. Then Naruto had to run to the bathroom due to bad milk. She meets the real Sasuke who was after Naruto. She wanted to end any Naruto talk so they could get back to the kissing. Here is an experiment if you have a significant other. Have a make out session and get them really into it. Then talk about something irrelevant from their parents to this one guy at work. I assure you there is nothing they want to do less than talk about something the breaks up the mode for the make out. So, she badmouthed Naruto, this pissed Sasuke off cause it hit close to home for him. Which made her feel she missed her chance by getting him angry at her, and caused her to reflect on how she was treating Naruto. When Sasuke was leaving the village Sakura invoked the bench scene to remind him of both, "his feelings for her as well as him getting angry at her. How they had spent the last few months on a team, and during all that time, he had always kept her at a distance. Making her think, that he was still angry at her for the comment. Preventing him from letting down his guard with her again." The reveal was not going to happen till near the end of the manga as once she learned of it. She would switch to Naruto. Shounen main pairing couples traditionally don't get together till near or at the end. However, by that time she was already replaced by Hinata. So, it was dropped.

 

 

What's frustrating is that everything you just said is by far the easiest way to fix most of the problems with Sakura as a character (mindless devotion to Sasuke). Turns out it wasn't mindless devotion and that there was a method to her madness. The problem is that Naruto, in his goofball way, caused this madness. It would've been such a good scene for Sakura. Initially, she would be PISSED about this revelation. But upon cooling down a little and going through several bouts of confusion, it would become clear to her once and for all why she was so devoted to Sasuke the entire time despite all the terrible things he had done; she had become smitten with her soulmate during that day on the bench; your feelings for your soulmate never change. Cue a bunch of flashbacks showcasing every narusaku moment in the series and boom; a weight has been lifted off the pinkette's shoulders and she has finally come to terms with who she is and who she really loves.

 

Hell, they could even lift this scene out of Hunter x Hunter, albeit with a few alterations:

 

 

Meruem = Sakura

Komugi = Naruto

Gungi Game =  The two at Ichiraku's ramen together.

 

The way this manga was written . . . it was tailor made for NaruSaku. For pete's sake: The author based Naruto on himself and Sakura on his freaking wife!!! To do this day, I do not understand how an author can willfully take away such a positive and upbeat storyline and ditch it in favor of . . . this Boruto mutant thing.  And it's not just NaruSaku either. There are so many things that were brilliantly setup prior to the first timeskip that . . . if nurtured correctly . . . could have made Naruto the greatest shounen of all time. So much abysmally WASTED POTENTIAL and the man destroys all of it due to having the imagination of a freaking potato. I've said it before and I will say it again: Naruto is the Darth Vader of manga/anime. Infinite potential squandered away due to bad decision making. Sorry for the rant!

[ThroughWithLove]

I am convinced that any appeal SasuSaku had was primarily result of the popularity of Sasuke in general (i.e. consistently #1 on the character polls). That being said, I don't see the relevance of pairing popularity (other than the indications that the choice of final pairings negatively impacted Boruto). I can say with the utmost confidence that NaruSaku is objectively the best pairing for the series   and can point to the series' themes, character arc and parallels as proof. That being said . . .

 

 

 

The same thing don't  diminish a rival pairing just because you hate them... Calling Sakura's feelings for Sasuke shallow is just denial at this point.

The same argument could work against NaruSaku like many NS haters likes to say and The Last made their own headcanon about this:
Naruto initially only loved Sakura back in the academy because she was the most beautiful  and intelligent Sasuke Fangirl...

 

My original point is only Sakura's pink hair and how i think it's more unique than her forehead...

It's  hard to don't talk about SS in  a topic about a SS manga.

But whatever.

 

Using only the 700 chapters of the original manga, how is calling Sakura's feelings for Sasuke shallow denial? Need we refer to the author's subtle admission of this when he has Kakashi give that "love doesn't need a reason" speech? Sorry, but it was shallow and you can't say otherwise without citing material created outside of the original 700 chapters or headcanon.

 

I disagree on NS being comparable. With NS, we can look to the original 700 chapters and we can pull out statements from the characters and we can cite parallels. I'll grant you that mostly everything I have to say about the bench scene is headcanon, but it at very least provides a plausible explanation for Sakura's feelings as opposed to the "love doesn't need a reason" lazily written garbage Kakashi uncharacteristically spewed in chapter 693. No, I would say there is a very compelling case to be made that NS was the planned endgame originally and someone made a (miscalculated) business decision to go in a different direction at some point. I've made a detailed thread on this topic before, but I heavily suspect there was a lot of backroom consternation between the production of chapters 458 and 459. The subtle difference in what Sai says in these two chapters speaks volumes. One chapter makes Sai a mouthpiece for NaruSaku and the other chapter has him walking back his original statements for no reason. Sai goes full blown backpeddle mode in chapter 471 and then everyone pretends this conversation never happened afterwards.

 

I reject your explanation for why Naruto loved Sakura during the academy. If you read chapter 3, you'll notice that Naruto does not have an epiphany on why he likes Sakura so much until she explains why she would like to be acknowledged by Sasuke. Hmm . . . now what other character at that time spent so much time wanting to be acknowledged by others?

 

Naruto and Sasuke are mainly used as a plot device to hype villains and the other rookies are too irrelevant. Naruto only exists to affect Kawaki and Sasuke rarely appears.

Why Sasuke's fans should care about Boruto?
Sasuke is just a pathetic shadow of his oldself.
He didn't have importants fights beside the one in the original Boruto movie/Gaiden. He's nerfed and was ridiculous stabed in the eye.
He doesn't have objectives,importance or  even his past glorious uchiha  pride...
He is just Boruto teacher.
Sakura is non existent.
Sarada hardly have any importance or interact with Sasuke/Sakura.

Naruto is a pathetic Hokage figure who ignore his family and now lost 90% of his strenght when Kurama died.

Hinata and her ugly daughter doesn't exist.

Only Boruto.

Buruto failed miserable as a fanservice/Story for Sasuke, Naruto, SS and NH fans. They simply didn't care or even hate  Boruto  manga...

Like i said this SasuSaku manga is a desperate attempt to bring old Sasuke, Sakura, Uchiha and SS fans or see if they  still are financially profitable...

 

 

 

Everything in this post is 100% correct.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 05 January 2023 - 06:01 AM.

[Therece]

I am convinced that any appeal SasuSaku had was primarily result of the popularity of Sasuke in general (i.e. consistently #1 on the character polls). That being said, I don't see the relevance of pairing popularity (other than the indications that the choice of final pairings negatively impacted Boruto). I can say with the utmost confidence that NaruSaku is objectively the best pairing for the series   and can point to the series' themes, character arc and parallels as proof. That being said . . .

 

 

Sasuke was a Village traitor. But he had a blind loyalty to his Family.
Sasuke attained his popularity and many  top 1 on characters polls  exactly after he abandoned the Village and his past was revealed. Before that he wans't more popular than any secondary character like Iruka.

Family loyalty is a ridiculously important thing to many Asian cultures including the Japanese. It is the belief that everyone's highest duty is to ignore what is best for themselves and serve their family. Personally I see it as a form of guilt-tripped slavery, but whatever. Sasuke's blind loyalty to the Uchihas and how he  abandoned everything in his quest to avenge his family's death is what makes him such a popular character in Japan.

As for SasuSaku. Sasuke and Sakura fought together and almost died together many times. They were friends and have development in Part 1. Asians like to think after everything Sasuke always will have Sakura loving and waiting for him. Even in Salad Gaiden. Kishimoto made almost the same plot. Sasuke is "sacrificing" himself in his mission to protect the world while Sakura/Sarada were waiting for him in home.

This is the japonese definition of perfect family:

 

...

 

[/url]

 

Sadly Karin and SasuKarin  never attained any popularity as a alternative  pairing to Sasuke.
 

Edited by Therece, 06 January 2023 - 07:29 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

Sasuke was a Village traitor. But he had a blind loyalty to his Family.
Sasuke attained his popularity and many  top 1 on characters polls  exactly after he abandoned the Village and his past was revealed. Before that he wans't more popular than any secondary character like Iruka.

Family loyalty is a ridiculously important thing to many Asian cultures including the Japanese. It is the belief that everyone's highest duty is to ignore what is best for themselves and serve their family. Personally I see it as a form of guilt-tripped slavery, but whatever. Sasuke's blind loyalty to the Uchihas and how he  abandoned everything in his quest to avenge his family's death is what makes him such a popular character in Japan.

As for SasuSaku. Sasuke and Sakura fought together and almost died together many times. They were friends and have development in Part 1. Asians like to think after everything Sasuke always will have Sakura loving and waiting for him. Even in Salad Gaiden. Kishimoto made almost the same plot. Sasuke is "sacrificing" himself in his mission to protect the world while Sakura/Sarada were waiting for him in home.

This is the japonese definition of perfect family:

 

...

 

[/url]

 

Sadly Karin and SasuKarin  never attained any popularity as a alternative  pairing to Sasuke.
 

 

I think the love and popularity Sasuke has is a lot simpler than you make it out to be: Sasuke is (on paper) cooler than Naruto. Remember, although we dissect the hell out of this crap, it is still a comic book marketed towards young boys. In part one, Kakashi was the coolest character, which is why he got 1st place.

 

As for Sasuke and Sakura fighting together and nearly dying together many times, I don't know what you're talking about. Sasuke and Sakura have had a paltry 4 instances of teamwork throughout the entire 700 chapter manga and Naruto was part of that dynamic every single time. Your summary is nice and beautifully written, but I would refer you to my previous post regarding the bench scene if you do not believe I can do the same with Naruto and Sakura.

 

And frankly, I don't know what the Japanese definition of perfect family is, but I can give you an example of something that writes itself and flows naturally from what we've been told throughout the original 700 chapter manga:

 

 

 

 

Lastly, you mention popularity. Why does this concern you so much? SasuKarin never caught on because Karin is a very flat character and has no development with Sasuke whatsoever. For pete's sake, her very next meeting after he tried to murder her resulted in her immediately fangirling over him again. 

[Therece]

 

I think the love and popularity Sasuke has is a lot simpler than you make it out to be: Sasuke is (on paper) cooler than Naruto. Remember, although we dissect the hell out of this crap, it is still a comic book marketed towards young boys. In part one, Kakashi was the coolest character, which is why he got 1st place.

 

Saying Sasuke's character is popular in asian side just because he was "cool" is superficial analysis. He only consistently get #1 after his character gain depths in the story and abandoned the village for his objectives. Also like i said Japonese culture valorize a lot family loyality and this the central aspect of Sasuke's character.

 

As for Sasuke and Sakura fighting together and nearly dying together many times, I don't know what you're talking about. Sasuke and Sakura have had a paltry 4 instances of teamwork throughout the entire 700 chapter manga and Naruto was part of that dynamic every single time. Your summary is nice and beautifully written, but I would refer you to my previous post regarding the bench scene if you do not believe I can do the same with Naruto and Sakura.

 

I was just talking about their popularity and how this didn't come out of nowhere.  Obvious the SS scenes/moments in part  1 or even in Shippuuden had a lot impact in their popularity. If these scenes are more  or less important compared to NaruSaku  depends on each fandom/person interpretation.  I agree with many usual NS arguments  minus the bench/forehead scenes.

Like i Said i have no interest to defend SS in a NS Forum.
Go to any SS tumblr/Twiiter/Facebook groups and you will find thousends of fangirls who will defend SS to death and ignore your NS arguments...

 

And frankly, I don't know what the Japanese definition of perfect family is, but I can give you an example of something that writes itself and flows naturally from what we've been told throughout the original 700 chapter manga:
 

Having a family meal copied from that Minato/Kushina cover?I think NH have one but with Naruto in Kushina's place.
SS and NH have a lot of family meals in Boruto Fillers and even Gaiden finished with a SS family reunion in the dinner table. Maybe in the West Side the NaruSaku/NaruHina definition was good. But not to Kishimoto/Asians clearly

 

 

Lastly, you mention popularity. Why does this concern you so much? SasuKarin never caught on because Karin is a very flat character and has no development with Sasuke whatsoever. For pete's sake, her very next meeting after he tried to murder her resulted in her immediately fangirling over him again. 

 

Because Karin was the female Sasuke's partner in Part 2.

Karin already was introduced in the story being hated and unpopular because SS fans.
Not even Sasuke "cool" aspect was enough to give some popularity to this Pairing in any place even before Karin was ridicularized in War Arc.

If you admit Karin was a flat Character with no development with Sasuke and how this  seriously affected SasuKarin popularity then the exact opposite occurred with Sakura/SasuSaku...

 

 

Also  many NS like to sideshiping SasuKarin just like SS/NH tended to join together against NaruSaku in the pairings wars days
 

Edited by Therece, 07 January 2023 - 06:03 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

Saying Sasuke's character is popular in asian side just because he was "cool" is superficial analysis. He only consistently get #1 after his character gain depths in the story and abandoned the village for his objectives. Also like i said Japonese culture valorize a lot family loyality and this the central aspect of Sasuke's character.

 

 

After his character started doing cool things like beating Orochimaru, beating an Deidara and defeating Itachi while simaltaneously getting a bunch of cool new abilities. All the while, the actual main character was constantly getting embarrassed and humiliated for a significant chunk of the first timeskip (anyone remember that time Naruto tried to sneak up on kabuto only to get knocked away with a casual backkick? lol). It go so bad that at one point, people began joking about the manga needing to change its name to "Sasuke." In terms of character depth, I just don't see it. How many times did he change his motivation for being evil again?  Given Kakashi's initial placement and the lack of character exploration he got while maintaining that ranking, the "cool factor" definitely appears to be the reason.

 

 

 

I was just talking about their popularity and how this didn't come out of nowhere.  Obvious the SS scenes/moments in part  1 or even in Shippuuden had a lot impact in their popularity. If these scenes are more  or less important compared to NaruSaku  depends on each fandom/person interpretation.  I agree with many usual NS arguments  minus the bench/forehead scenes.

Like i Said i have no interest to defend SS in a NS Forum.
Go to any SS tumblr/Twiiter/Facebook groups and you will find thousends of fangirls who will defend SS to death and ignore your NS arguments...

 

 

I agree that it did not come out of nowhere. What I disagree on is the basis under which it did develop. A lot of people read these mangas and get a sense of wish fulfillment when they do.  Sasuke is the confident badass most young men wish they could be. Most people would much rather be Sasuke than a butt-monkey like Naruto. But for the sake of the argument, lets say you're right and that the popularity was a bit more nuanced and meaningful: What difference does it make? Should popularity be the basis for determining whether something is better?

 

And by all means, please feel free to defend SS here. I don't mind the arguments. I welcome all ideas even if I fundamentally disagree. Assuming we can be respectful with each other, I don't see the problem.

 

I'll let you in on a little secret though: I don't actually "ship" NaruSaku.  That's right. Despite arguing for it and being somewhat active on a NaruSaku site, I don't "ship" it. No, I "ship" the story. I "ship" the natural flow the narrative originally appeared to be going towards. I would submit to you that Naruto and Sakura falling in love with each other is simply the logical conclusion of both character's story arcs. Sakura's arc in particular (at least throughout part 1) revolves around maturing past her young naive shallow self; the little girl who was obsessed with Sasuke to the point of being blind to everything else (i.e. the bench scene). At the end of part 1, we got the first glimpse of Sakura who could overcome that blindness (see the promise of a lifetime and Sakura's realization that Naruto understands her more than anyone else; this is shown in complete contrast to the bench scene).  The problem with SS is that it is missing an arc (or two). Sasuke is legitimately correct when he claims that Sakura has no reason to love him. He doesn't. The author has never provided one. There is nothing to differentiate Sakura's love for Sasuke from Ino's and the little scene of Ino crying over Sasuke when the rookie 9 confirms their plan to kill him indicates as much. Not to mention Asuma's final wish towards Ino that she not lose to Sakura in her pursuit of Sasuke. It's weak. It's shallow. It's bad writing. I like good writing. It's that simple.

 

 

Having a family meal copied from that Minato/Kushina cover?I think NH have one but with Naruto in Kushina's place.

SS and NH have a lot of family meals in Boruto Fillers and even Gaiden finished with a SS family reunion in the dinner table. Maybe in the West Side the NaruSaku/NaruHina definition was good. But not to Kishimoto/Asians clearly

 

 

Family meals? No, look closer at the cover. Notice anything about Naruto and Sakura? It's consistent with both of their characters as far as what was established in the original manga. Can't say the same about the NH version of that cover.

 

 

 

Because Karin was the female Sasuke's partner in Part 2.

Karin already was introduced in the story being hated and unpopular because SS fans.
Not even Sasuke "cool" aspect was enough to give some popularity to this Pairing in any place even before Karin was ridicularized in War Arc.

If you admit Karin was a flat Character with no development with Sasuke and how this  seriously affected SasuKarin popularity then the exact opposite occurred with Sakura/SasuSaku...

 

 

Is that all Karin is? What are her goals besides wanting Sasuke to impregnate her? What's the longest conversation her and Sasuke have ever even had besides him shouting orders? And the difference between Sakura and Karin is that Sakura is not a flat character with no development period. Rather, outside of Sasuke, she gets a great deal of development throughout part 1 and the early parts of part 2. Have Sakura and Sasuke ever even had an actual conversation that didn't involve Sakura wanting him to impregnate her during the original 700 chapters?

 

 

 

Also  many NS like to sideshiping SasuKarin just like SS/NH tended to join together against NaruSaku in the pairings wars days

 

 

I don't know about other people, but the only appeal that has to me is the prospect of SasuKarin's offspring rivaling/romancing NaruSaku's offspring. Outside of that, Karin is a useless character with little purpose.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 07 January 2023 - 10:23 PM.

[Phantom_999]

 

Hinata and NH fans would say the same thing.
Just because you hate the character or the pairing, this didn't diminish their importance. Both Hinata and Iruka are important to Naruto's character in differents ways.
Iruka's was Naruto's first teacher while Hinata tried to save Naruto against Pein and comforted him in Neji's death...

For me both Hinata and Iruka are irrelevant to the main manga Story evolving Sasuke, Uchihas, Team 7 and Akatsuki, ignoring fandom preferences.
Hinata even have slight more painel time than Iruka.
 

 

The same thing don't  diminish a rival pairing just because you hate them... Calling Sakura's feelings for Sasuke shallow is just denial at this point.
The same argument could work against NaruSaku like many NS haters likes to say and The Last made their own headcanon about this:
Naruto initially only loved Sakura back in the academy because she was the most beautiful  and intelligent Sasuke Fangirl...

 

My original point is only Sakura's pink hair and how i think it's more unique than her forehead...

It's  hard to don't talk about SS in  a topic about a SS manga.

But whatever.
 

 

And how is are Sakura's feelings for Sasuke NOT shallow may I ask? You yourself acknowledged that they had BARE MINIMUM interactions and that is where my problem lies. Not only do they have bare minimum interactions, most of them barely resemble anything positive in a relationship. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sakura always asked Sasuke to spend time with her or admiring how cool he is and he brushes her off and calls her annoying. And that those were their BEST interactions. you can sum up their current relationship as the same thing now except they are married by some miracle. I don't hate the pairing because I like NaruSaku, I hate it because it is a toxic negative relationship. and I mean this without bias. Sasuke has tried to kill Sakura  after the time skip and when she thinks about him after the time skip she is turned into a sobbing crying mess. that does not look like a healthy happy relationship to me. And nothing was done to show the relationship improved because Sasuke leaves Sakura for years on end and doesn't contact her because he chooses not to. Again I don't hate SasuSaku as a Naruto X Sakura fan. I hate it because even in terms of fiction their writing and relationship is BAD and not desirable.  

 

I never said don't talk about SS I said don't compare it to NaruSaku if you don't want to debate. You yourself said you don't want to debate it so that is my advice to you. Take it or leave it. And don't act like you don't want to debate if you're gonna stir the pot.

 

Lastly Hinata DOES NOT have the same significance to Naruto as Iruka. I don't see it and  nowhere in the story is it mentioned. she is just one of his Konoha 11 comrades. She is not his most important bonds which are Iruka and Team 7. The last retconned that so if you are taking the last as canon I assume you're perfectly fine with how the last contradicts chapter/episode 1 of the entire manga/anime, which is Naruto first learned the shadow clone move when he was 6 years instead of 12-13 years old as he was in chapter 1 going by how he defended Hinata from bullies in the movie. If you acknowledge what the Last says you acknowledge the whole train wreck of contradictions that come with it 

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 February 2023 - 11:03 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Apparently, this weeks chapter is part two of the last chapter instead of chapter 7. This is the chapter where they get really mushy.

 

Summary Time: Chapter 6 Part 2.

 

Cover page is Sasuke and Sakura.

 

Sasuke tells Sakura to follow him...oh right they are sneaking to the lake. Why there going there Sakura trips but is prevented from falling to the ground by Sasuke. She goes teehee she is a klutz, blushes, and Sasuke sighs. Sakura comments the lake is beautiful Sasuke says, he wishes they could have brought Salad, to a lake by a prison. Sasuke ask if Sakura would want a real ring instead of one he had made in a few seconds, was this in the light novel? 'Cause this feels like someone commented on the ring bit like I did and this is a cover. Instead of fixing the story. She ponders if a real ring would be better, since would it work with her medical procedures. Sasuke smiles and says, "he never worried about her straying from him," again my comment on that ring lands, he doesn't have to work hard or put effort because she will never stray. This might be sweet with other couples but I know their relationship and so do all of you. Apparently, he been coming to the village more frequently, after outright avoiding them for 12 years, and each time he notices the small changes in Sakura and Salad. Sasuke apparently is getting wrinkles now but only when he smiles, handsomely, and Sasuke notes Sakura does not have any wrinkles but he says it fine if she gets some. They end with holding hands while staring at the lake full of stars.

 

Finally, back to the plot. Sakura pulls out those star cards. On the back of the cards there is a lizard. Sakura points out that it is a dragon/dinosaur and a meteor. Yes, again dinosaur and dragons uses the same kanji. Sasuke puts it all together, but its too late as Sakura was doing the hand seals to reveal the meteor. A big flash of light happens and then a container is in Sakura's hands. And Zansul sends out his dinosaurs which he apparently revive with edo-tensei. Were they not planning on dealing with him and just leaving like thieves in the night? He was clearly up to something dangerous and important.

 

5/10. Most of the chapter was for a random SS bonding moment. Also, part of the couple moment felt like it was addressing the ring thing.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 17 January 2023 - 08:12 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Seems that without Naruto around, Sakura is utterly devoid of having an actual personality. Might as well be a random villager who happens to be a Sasuke fangirl. SS is so unbelievably boring.

 

Compare the middle image in the first picture with the right image in the second picture and ask yourself which would make a more interesting story:

 

 

 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 17 January 2023 - 07:04 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Seems that without Naruto around, Sakura is utterly devoid of having an actual personality. Might as well be a random villager who happens to be a Sasuke fangirl. SS is so unbelievably boring.

 

Compare the middle image in the first picture with the right image in the second picture and ask yourself which would make a more interesting story:

 

 

 

Oh hey that's the online comic I mentioned once a few years ago. Where its trying to show how perfect Hinata was and how awful NS was. But I said it also showed Hinata has no standards and therefore Naruto wouldn't put any effort into improving himself. Seem there was more of it then I knew.

 

The chapter pretty much pauses the story to have them go on about how much they love each other in other couples this would be eye rollingly corny but this couple it just makes you think about all the problems they have.

 

The Sasuke catching Sakura bit is clearly a call back to when he did that during the Kaguya fight. Which goes to show that his fans think very little of him. As they apparently believe that if Sasuke didn't love her he would just let her fall to the ground, while I think Sasuke isn't that big of a jack ass.

 

The Sasuke noticing small changes bit after he spent 12 years going all out to avoid them.

 

Sasuke has complete faith that Sakura would never cheat on him, which means he barely has to put any effort in keeping her and even treats her horribly to the point of abuse because she will always be faithful no matter what or how little he does.

 

Sakura knows Sasuke completely but she still believes he is the one that complimented her forehead the day they formed team 7.

 

The knowledge people should have from reading Naruto-Boruto undermines these moments and any others they could have.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 17 January 2023 - 12:12 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Oh hey that's the online comic I mentioned once a few years ago. Where its trying to show how perfect Hinata was and how awful NS was. But I said it also showed Hinata has no standards and therefore Naruto wouldn't put any effort into improving himself. Seem there was more of it then I knew.

 

 

You know what the funny thing about that sentiment is? Look what they've had to do to Hinata just to make her even slightly interesting. Not only is she suddenly a "scary mom", but she also kicks Naruto out the house when necessary. And from the looks of a spoiler panel from a new chapter, she slaps the Boruto rival dude whose name I don't care enough about to actually remember. Hinata is such a garbage boring character that they were FORCED to make her diet Sakura in a desperate attempt to retain readers. In other words, what I've said (and have been saying) about the NaruSaku version of that roach comic is plain as day. People don't want to read stories about the perfect people (can anyone imagine Bulma acting like a doormat around Vegeta? How lame would that be???). I couldn't care less about seeing Hinata call Shino up to easily deal with a cockroack problem. I'd much rather see Naruto and Sakura FAIL such a simple task due to their personality clashes, maybe even wreck the house in the process. Besides them actually being head over hills for each other DESPITE their differences, it's just entertaining if nothing else!!!

 

 

The chapter pretty much pauses the story to have them go on about how much they love each other in other couples this would be eye rollingly corny but this couple it just makes you think about all the problems they have.

 

 

Honestly, the only way SS could get any justice without butchering Sakura's character would be for Sakura to "get over" Sasuke and for Sasuke to chase after her and slowly win her back somewhat along the lines of the Beauty and the Beast, with maybe Sakura being assertive with Sasuke than she was in the past. But the way she is now? The girl is a freaking doormat who no longer shows any other aspect of her personality. It's almost as if actually going through with this pairing was never something Kishimoto nor his original editor took seriously.

 

Sakura knows Sasuke completely but she still believes he is the one that complimented her forehead the day they formed team 7.

 

 

Good god. Is that shown in the chapter? Please tell me she is not visibly shown believing that.  

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 18 January 2023 - 01:58 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

Meant to comment on this when the discussion on whether or not sakura's feeling are shallow or not was ongoing, but forgot to do so and want to get off my chest.

In regards to the fact that given how kishimoto himself said that sakura was addicted to sasuke to and they any reason he can think of sakura falling for sasuke sounds contrived. So when you have the athour say something like that their relationship does indeed sound shallow.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

The same thing don't  diminish a rival pairing just because you hate them... Calling Sakura's feelings for Sasuke shallow is just denial at this point.

 

Feelings of what? At what part did her feelings went above "tee-hee crush on a coolest guy my best friend had a crush on"? Did she ever brought what she liked about him?

[Bail o' Lies]

You know what the funny thing about that sentiment is? Look what they've had to do to Hinata just to make her even slightly interesting. Not only is she suddenly a "scary mom", but she also kicks Naruto out the house when necessary. And from the looks of a spoiler panel from a new chapter, she slaps the Boruto rival dude whose name I don't care enough about to actually remember. Hinata is such a garbage boring character that they were FORCED to make her diet Sakura in a desperate attempt to retain readers. In other words, what I've said (and have been saying) about the NaruSaku version of that roach comic is plain as day. People don't want to read stories about the perfect people (can anyone imagine Bulma acting like a doormat around Vegeta? How lame would that be???). I couldn't care less about seeing Hinata call Shino up to easily deal with a cockroack problem. I'd much rather see Naruto and Sakura FAIL such a simple task due to their personality clashes, maybe even wreck the house in the process. Besides them actually being head over hills for each other DESPITE their differences, it's just entertaining if nothing else!!!

 

Honestly, the only way SS could get any justice without butchering Sakura's character would be for Sakura to "get over" Sasuke and for Sasuke to chase after her and slowly win her back somewhat along the lines of the Beauty and the Beast, with maybe Sakura being assertive with Sasuke than she was in the past. But the way she is now? The girl is a freaking doormat who no longer shows any other aspect of her personality. It's almost as if actually going through with this pairing was never something Kishimoto nor his original editor took seriously.

 

Good god. Is that shown in the chapter? Please tell me she is not visibly shown believing that.  

No, she does not bring up the forehead comment. It was just a general, I know you, comment. Again its more the conversation is damaged due to their relationship been previously shown to the fans. So that each comment that had can be counter by something that happened in Naruto undermining it. 

 

Perfect is boring. Flawed and having to learn is interesting. Hell its one of the problem with this manga. SS is flawed and it may have been interesting to see them work out their many issues, but we skipped over it for a perfect couple.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 21 January 2023 - 11:49 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Apparently, this weeks chapter is part two of the last chapter instead of chapter 7. This is the chapter where they get really mushy.

 

Summary Time: Chapter 6 Part 2.

 

Cover page is Sasuke and Sakura.

 

Sasuke tells Sakura to follow him...oh right they are sneaking to the lake. Why there going there Sakura trips but is prevented from falling to the ground by Sasuke. She goes teehee she is a klutz, blushes, and Sasuke sighs. Sakura comments the lake is beautiful Sasuke says, he wishes they could have brought Salad, to a lake by a prison. Sasuke ask if Sakura would want a real ring instead of one he had made in a few seconds, was this in the light novel? 'Cause this feels like someone commented on the ring bit like I did and this is a cover. Instead of fixing the story. She ponders if a real ring would be better, since would it work with her medical procedures. Sasuke smiles and says, "he never worried about her straying from him," again my comment on that ring lands, he doesn't have to work hard or put effort because she will never stray. This might be sweet with other couples but I know their relationship and so do all of you. Apparently, he been coming to the village more frequently, after outright avoiding them for 12 years, and each time he notices the small changes in Sakura and Salad. Sasuke apparently is getting wrinkles now but only when he smiles, handsomely, and Sasuke notes Sakura does not have any wrinkles but he says it fine if she gets some. They end with holding hands while staring at the lake full of stars.

 

Finally, back to the plot. Sakura pulls out those star cards. On the back of the cards there is a lizard. Sakura points out that it is a dragon/dinosaur and a meteor. Yes, again dinosaur and dragons uses the same kanji. Sasuke puts it all together, but its too late as Sakura was doing the hand seals to reveal the meteor. A big flash of light happens and then a container is in Sakura's hands. And Zansul sends out his dinosaurs which he apparently revive with edo-tensei. Were they not planning on dealing with him and just leaving like thieves in the night? He was clearly up to something dangerous and important.

 

5/10. Most of the chapter was for a random SS bonding moment. Also, part of the couple moment felt like it was addressing the ring thing.

 

Yup. Once again, I bring up how shallow the moments between Sasuke and Sakura are currently because it feels forced more than anything, and is indicative of how little time Sasuke spends with Sakura and Sakura is just acting like a lalaland school girl living out her fantasies with her dream man. It is not cute to me and again it wouldn't be as bad to watch this cringe if it wasn't for all the negativity that came form the original series. More so ever, them actually wasting time showing this meaning even the writer for these novels knows how much SS LACKS as a couple 

Edited by Phantom_999, 22 January 2023 - 10:46 AM.