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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#50641 Phantom_999

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Posted Yesterday, 11:32 AM

Oh  the American fan base WASN'T a factor, actually. The More I think about it, the American fan base or any pro NH fan in general was actually just a means to an end. Kishimoto was not convinced to change Hinata to being "THE heroine", BUT MANY male members of the Naruto anime team and and ALMOST ALL OF of his post- Yahagi editors want their self insert Naruto Uzumaki to boink the precious, shy, big kittens, innocent and pure girl Hinata Hyuga that was always "into him", so they gathered the opinions of like-minded masses as "evidence and data".

 

They wanted a method to make Hinata the dream girl of the Main character because they want to vicariously "make love" to her in canon without shame or are SO socially inept at real life relationships that  they think Hinata is the obvious option as a wife because she is easy to obtain without effort because they don't see that love is something that is nurtured and developed. it starts small but gradually grows by communication, trust and compromise. They feel that Naruto trying to earn Sakura's love is a "chore" because she does not immediately reciprocate and was pining after the cool sexy mysterious bad boy, when all sources of the story indicate that Sakura was starting to understand that she knew nothing of Sasuke at all and that his actions and choices are breaking her heart, so she can not accept who he was at the mid way point and beyond of Part II in the story. At the same time her friendship with the boy that she always looked down on and insulted was blossoming and growing into a mature and stable relationship with the occasional childish banter still being there. That she is always touched by how warm and compassionate that village pariah is, not to mention that he is selfless and loyal to a fault with his friends, which that is changing something in her too. The makings of a great romance were all there but in the end it was thrown out the window for the "easy way."

 

That is something that truly disgusts me. That the NH and SS relationships' themes are about the easy way to obtain romance through "entitlement" and "first love" rather than showing a solid friendship and mutual understanding. That the romance is about whom loved whom first rather than showing a couple that grows closer by spending time with each other by choice, talking about happy and sad times alike, can always be "themselves" around each other without putting on a mask or pretend to be someone they are not, and can have arguments or disagreements but do not let that destroy their bond. So of course true love is who you are entitled to and they have to be broken down or brainwashed into loving you back, That is what NH and SS is shown to be with all Post chapter 700 material. And the idiots that are hypnotized and entranced By Hinata's H+ cups eat it up like pudding  :yucky:


Edited by Phantom_999, Yesterday, 06:02 PM.

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#50642 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted Yesterday, 05:30 PM

Oh  the American fan base WASN'T a factor, actually. The More I think about it, the American fan base or any pro NH fan in general was actually just a means to an end. Kishimoto was not convinced to change Hinata to being "THE heroine", BUT MANY male members of the Naruto anime team and and ALMOST ALL OF of his post- Yahagi editors want their self insert Naruto Uaumaki to boink the precious, shy big kittens, innocent and pure girl Hinata Hyuga that was always "into him", so they gathered the opinions of like-minded masses as "evidence and data".

 

They wanted a method to make Hinata the dream girl of the Main character because they want to vicariously "make love" to her in canon without shame or are SO socially inept at real life relationships that  they think Hinata is the obvious option as a wife because she is easy to obtain without effort because they don't see that love is something that is nurtured and developed. it starts small but gradually grows by communication, trust and compromise. They feel that Naruto trying to earn Sakura's love is a "chore" because she does not immediately reciprocate and was pining after the cool sexy mysterious bad boy, when all sources of the story indicate that Sakura was starting to understand that she knew nothing of Sasuke at all and that his actions and choices are breaking her heart, so she can not accept who he was at the mid way point and beyond of Part II in the story. At the same time her friendship with the boy that she always looked down on and insulted was blossoming and growing into a mature and stable relationship with the occasional childish banter still being there. That she is always touched by how warm and compassionate that village pariah is, not to mention that he is selfless and loyal to a fault to his friends, which that is changing something in her too. the makings of a great romance were all there but in the end it was thrown out the window for the "easy way."

 

That is something that truly disgusts me. That the NH and SS relationships' themes are about the easy way to obtain romance through "entitlement" and "first love" rather than showing a solid friendship and mutual understanding. That the romance is about whom loved whom first rather than showing a couple that grows closer by spending time with each other by choice, talking about happy and sad times alike, can always be "themselves" around each other without putting on a mask or pretend to be someone they are not, and can arguments or disagreements but do not let that destroy their bond. So of course true love is who you are entitled to and they have to be broken down or brainwashed into loving you back, That is what NH and SS is shown to be with all Post chapter 700 material. And the idiots that are hypnotized and entranced By Hinata's H+ cups eat it up like pudding  :yucky:

And what makes it worse is how those same people don't even bother trying to hide the complete hypocrisy with their excuses.

Like saying Sakura would be a "terrible woman" if she moved on from Sasuke and yet they make no mention of Ino with Sai, or even Boruto's dad himself to Hinatatas.


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#50643 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted Yesterday, 06:35 PM

And what makes it worse is how those same people don't even bother trying to hide the complete hypocrisy with their excuses.

Like saying Sakura would be a "terrible woman" if she moved on from Sasuke and yet they make no mention of Ino with Sai, or even Boruto's dad himself to Hinatatas.

 

It's not like they care; they just want their pairings to  matter even when they know they don't.



#50644 Bail o' Lies

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Posted Yesterday, 11:17 PM

Look at the Last. The ultimate perfect love story that SP wrote. Now look at Naruto's rival for Hinata's love. Some random loser that lives on the moon (neet/hikimori) that decides to destroy the world after something was stolen from his family years ago (petty) which as a duty his clan was suppose to guard(incompetent), yet he only does this years after the situation was resolved (lazy), when he leaves the moon he instantly want to marry the first girl he meets which he believes is part of an ancient prophecy, who is supposedly a goddess princess, yet she is already madly eternally in love with another guy, so he has to kidnap her, and brain-wash her in order to even get her to the alter.

 

And this guy is the greatest enemy Naruto shall ever face? This loser? Why yes, according to SP.



#50645 James S Cassidy

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Posted Today, 12:33 AM

Look at the Last. The ultimate perfect love story that SP wrote. Now look at Naruto's rival for Hinata's love. Some random loser that lives on the moon (neet/hikimori) that decides to destroy the world after something was stolen from his family years ago (petty) which as a duty his clan was suppose to guard(incompetent), yet he only does this years after the situation was resolved (lazy), when he leaves the moon he instantly want to marry the first girl he meets which he believes is part of an ancient prophecy, who is supposedly a goddess princess, yet she is already madly eternally in love with another guy, so he has to kidnap her, and brain-wash her in order to even get her to the alter.

 

And this guy is the greatest enemy Naruto shall ever face? This loser? Why yes, according to SP.

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#50646 RulesofNature

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Posted Today, 01:28 AM

I can't help but wonder what the Japanese fanbase thinks of the Western one? Like, we've all heard the majority over there were convinced that NS would happen, whereas in the West we have the vocal NH fanbase who were claiming Hinata was going to win and was the main heroine. Even people in SP thought NS was happening if the Rock Lee spinoff is anything to go by. So, do they blame the Western fanbase for the ending, claiming it was done by SP to get their support, or do they think the WF enabled the favoritism by members of SP?


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#50647 Bail o' Lies

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Posted Today, 02:34 AM

I can't help but wonder what the Japanese fanbase thinks of the Western one? Like, we've all heard the majority over there were convinced that NS would happen, whereas in the West we have the vocal NH fanbase who were claiming Hinata was going to win and was the main heroine. Even people in SP thought NS was happening if the Rock Lee spinoff is anything to go by. So, do they blame the Western fanbase for the ending, claiming it was done by SP to get their support, or do they think the WF enabled the favoritism by members of SP?

A while after the ending I wanted to see what the Japanese thought of the ending. One of the article I found was them talking about the petition to ban Naruto from the US. Most people were shocked that the American fanbase was that angry, and the few that had friends the were fans of NS in the States said that they normally seem kind, reasonable, and loved the story. But that's anecdotal. Other then that we know the a lot of the Japanese realize that the ending happened for the American/International fanbase which help them lose interest in Naruto, because the producers all but stated Naruto was no longer for them. They seemed to think nH was full of loser, and SS/SNS were full of fuduoshi (or how ever they spell that) that were obsessed with Sasuke, and if they looked at those nH supporting anime youtube reviewers I doubt their opinion would change.

 

Beyond that they tend to see Americans as big idiots, and Europeans as more sophisticated people. Also SP worship of Hinata was well known for years.

 

I haven't bothered to check up on the Japanese sites in years since I not that good at that kind of digging. I imagine that they be making the same assumption we do; SP was obsessed with Hinata, wanting her to be the heroine/Love interest of Naruto no matter what, and used the US nH fanbase as the justification for the ending.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, Today, 04:49 AM.


#50648 KClaws_2

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Posted Today, 08:25 AM

I suppose we have to remember that we're in the minority in the west. Other than this website, it seems like everyone on the internet hates Sakura more than anything in the world and they support Hinata simply because she's not Sakura.

 

Maybe I looked too closely at the characters and lost the ability to relate with the average fan. Maybe the real mass appeal was ninjas and fighting, and anything that impeded that got looked at with scorn. Sakura was often put in positions where she was either a liability in the fight or far outclassed by the other fighters. If you combine that with her bratty fangirl attitude at the start you can see why more casual viewers would hate her.

 

And then I have to ask myself, did anyone consider the ending to be good? If 100 random fans read the final chapter, how many would have thought it was a good end to the series? Would that number have been higher or lower if we got a NaruSaku end?

 

Honestly I think it would have been lower. Even if it was better writing, even if it was truer to the characters, even if it led to a better sequel series, it still would have been utterly rejected by the masses. Ultimately Naruto is just a product, and Jump is a business.

 

I would just really like to know Kishimoto's thoughts on what happened. It's frustrating even years later not having answers to all these questions and Naruto's continued relevance even if diminished serves only to remind me of the way Jump butchered a decade long story so they could keep it going just a little bit longer.

Hard to say WHAT the reaction would have been. The internet can be very misleading on what "fans" want. The only thing the internet tells you about people's opinions is that you hear only those who speak up, and even then that's subjective. Which sites are you checking out? What of the ones who chose not to be active in these discussions (I used to be one of those, after discovering how negative the fandom as a whole was). You might be able to tally the opinion of a X00k people or so, which seems like a lot, but given the total population of the US, it's really just a drop in the ocean. You probably couldn't even fill a football stadium with that many people.

Even if we're a minority as people who specifically ship NS in the fandom, the Naruto fandom is more eclectic than that. There are those who ship other couples, there are those who don't ship at all, and there are those who multiship. Even taking Boruto into account, even if it is getting good ratings, that doesn't mean people are buying it at an acceptable rate nor does that discount that among some mistakes have been made.  

If we're to take Kishimoto's word for how he came went about his romantic subplot with NS being the red herring, that would still suggest there was a large interest among fans that Naruto should end up with Sakura. Even ANN acknowledges us as a large percentage of the fandom.

 

If the outcome was truly decided on the fandom in the West, it was a bad decision. First off, it's Japan's manga, not ours. The Japanese fans should have the first say on what should go (even if we as international fans don't agree with it). Second, our buying habits are not the same as the Japanese, nor does the way US companies gather profits work the same. In Japan, manga is generally pretty cheap to my knowledge, and if successful, they're able to sell close to a million copies per volume. Their anime also tends to be ridiculously expensive, with DVDs running up to 60 US dollars, and often don't have that many episodes attached to them, hence the companies gain a huge profit per unit. In the US, manga is actually more expensive because the companies that license these manga have to pay for translators in addition to making a profit, and this can also be made more complicated if they're forced to alter the manga for some reason. DVDs are standard price here, but that means less profit per episode. This is made even more difficult when they have to pay for dubbing and subtitles. Plus, anime movies usually do well enough in Japan; in the US you're lucky if an anime movie breaks a million (The Last itself made only 600k, which honestly surprised me). Also, Viz brags about how Naruto has sold millions in the US. That is a good number, make no mistake, but not to the same extent Naruto sold in Japan.

 

So, we really shouldn't have made a difference in the outcome of the story. Even if Naruto was more popular internationally than in Japan, the US is not the rest of the world. 






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