54 replies to this topic

[Strangelove]

How much aid did we wasted on Egypt and on keeping Mubarak's regime in place?

50 billion? 60 billion?

Foreign aid, is the way in which the rich take money from the poor in rich countries, and give it to the rich who use it to oppress the poor in poor countries. Maybe that is why, the nations that have taken in the most foreign aid, are some of the most struck in poverty.

[Nate River]

How much aid did we wasted on Egypt and on keeping Mubarak's regime in place?

50 billion? 60 billion?

Foreign aid, is the way in which the rich take money from the poor in rich countries, and give it to the rich who use it to oppress the poor in poor countries. Maybe that is why, the nations that have taken in the most foreign aid, are some of the most struck in poverty.

That's not a maybe. That is why. It's a chronic problem.

[ciardha]

How predictable that the US corporate owned media, including fauxgressive ones like CNN and MSNBC are ignoring that labor unions were an extremely powerful part of the democracy movements in Tunsia and Egypt (can't be giving the working class ideas about equality and the power they have if they unite...Not to mention men and women and multi generational- not just 20 somethings but people in their 30's, 40's and 50's too.)

Here's a report from a UK newspaper on how important the labor unions were in both Tunsia and Egypt. Poland as well- back when they peacefully threw off Soviet domination and set up a democratic government.

http://www.guardian....s-egypt-tunisia

Don't be so quick to buy into what the corporate owned media is telling you even in the fauxgressive media- trying stir up fears of "another Iran". They are just trying to brainwash the US population that demonstrating for change is something that is dangerous, etc...

When the unions were powerful in US human rights improved as did the economic power of working people, the middle class came from this, the same middle class that both political parties are working hand in hand with their corporate owners to crush. Note all the anti labor union commentary on our news media, including the fauxgressive news media... it disgusts me.

I can feel how close we are to what has happened in Tunsia and Egypt- the lower middle class (which I am a member of) and poor working class people know both parties are crushing them and giving more and more power to their corporate owners, the right wing leaning part of that is the origins of the Tea Party, the left leaning is more amorphous but are loyal members of labor unions- many children and even grandchildren of labor union members. Labor union membership is strongest amongst those in their 40's and 50's here- those of us old enough to remember how strong labor unions made things better for all workers, even the poorest, because they had the power to improve working conditions for all- making improvements federal law. I have a feeling the spark will happen here amongst those labor union members, and so do the corporate owners of our country- thus all the anti labor union reporting, especially against few ones with any power to push back against the pro corporate ownership.

There's a favorite John Lennon song that has come to mind, with what has happened in Egypt and Tunsia, and apparently not just to me, looking at the comments posted on Youtube



Better sound quality- and with some more Egypt comments



There was a sort of proto music video to this that John and Yoko made in 1971 when the song came out. Yoko did one with updated images added in 1990 which this is.(having added China's prodemocracy protest, and the ActUp protesters in the US.) I think it's time for a new one with the several people power victories since 1990 around the world.

Edited by ciardha, 12 February 2011 - 07:03 AM.

[Strangelove]

Whatever form of government comes out of Egypt, whether a liberal democracy, or a radical theocracy, or a mixture of both, like what we have here in America. I couldn't care less.

We really need to start talking to countries that we don't like, instead of following the stupid Bush slogans of "They're evil we're good." Free trade, friendly diplomacy, avoiding entangling alliances, and avoiding nation building around the world, for they drain the resources of a nation, and in the end has disastrous consequences.

Edited by Strangelove, 12 February 2011 - 07:53 PM.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Whatever form of government comes out of Egypt, whether a liberal democracy, or a radical theocracy, or a mixture of both, like what we have here in America. I couldn't care less.

We really need to start talking to countries that we don't like, instead of following the stupid Bush slogans of "They're evil we're good." Free trade, friendly diplomacy, avoiding entangling alliances, and avoiding nation building around the world, for they drain the resources of a nation, and in the end has disastrous consequences.

Where were you back in the early 1900's? This nation should've stayed isolated, and the rest of the world would've ran just smoothly. World War I would've stayed as merely 'The Great War', there would be no sissy League of Nations to fubar everything, the German Empire would take its post as the head of Europe for its own duration [the natural cycle of Europe and the world], colonization would most likely have never ended and continued unhindered and thus keep tribal conflicts/genocide to a bare minimum or under colonial supervision, and the populations in Eastern Europe would be far more organized and free than they are now, under the watchful eyes of German-related kings. Communism may have approached a boiling point in Europe, but it would have most likely been turned back by the combined efforts of the German Empire and her allies.

However, this era was never meant to be. Now, Eastern Europe is a degrading society with a harshly decayed social-structure, political-structure and forced democracies with no sign of returning to sanity. 'Parliaments' seem more like brawl-bins for kitten-fights, and the illusion of grandeur with no ways to back it are rampant. Belarus is nothing more than an extension of the Russians will, whom are coated yet again in another faux-Republic to cover their tails as a dictatorship. They really need to get back to their Tsardom; it would be for the best for them. The Geneva Conventions are now stricter than ever, seeming to go to the point of telling all armed forces around the world to just push a ball around in a play-pen instead of actually putting effort into fighting a war. Civilian obesity is rising due to fattening chemicals stocked into American products, thus increasing their desirability in governments set up in Western Europe and the European Union that barely qualify as Puppet governments for keeping the entirety of nationalism in check. The world is not working anymore, and there are too many people to give jobs or to care for. This is becoming the boiling point, where governments will collapse due to agents from other countries disrupting politics in others, and the illegitimate governments set up afterwards will be so helpless to do anything that they will have no choice but to contract themselves out to the United States for aid and supplies, thus decreasing their own ideals in favor of theirs. This isn't a matter of 'Left versus Right', or 'Right versus Wrong', it's a matter of 'Freedom versus American Democracy', and it's everyone left on the rapidly decreasing table with different ideas.

[ciardha]

No Kamina Yoshi. The real world isn't some computer warfare game. It's far more complex, as are human beings. You are missing the entire reason people went enmasse to Tahir Square in Egypt and why they stayed there.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

No Kamina Yoshi. The real world isn't some computer warfare game. It's far more complex, as are human beings. You are missing the entire reason people went enmasse to Tahir Square in Egypt and why they stayed there.

Cool story. Let me guess; you're sheltered within the heartland of America, where everyone's opinion is the same as America's opinion?

[ciardha]

Cool story. Let me guess; you're sheltered within the heartland of America, where everyone's opinion is the same as America's opinion?

Nope. I suggest looking at the vast ranges of responses on this thread by the Americans here. I'm from the upper US South, middle aged, mixed race- Native American/white (mostly Scottish) and am a leftist feminist wiccan. I also have a great love for studying social history worldwide, and have since I was a child. Studying only the history of the elites gives one a very narrow and inaccurate view of history. History is moved by those outside of the leadership ranks not the elites. (As has just been proven again by Egypt and Tunsia.) If you are lower middle class or poor in America you are hardly "sheltered". If you are a female of that economic class you are even less so, etc...

[Strangelove]

In almost every single case, the lower middle class and the poor that overthrow an oppressive regime, usually put an oppressive regime in power to oppress themselves.

Examples are:

Castro's cuba, that overthrew the regime of then dictator Fulgecio Baptist of Cuba. To install his leftist Cuban Revolution, Castro kept himself in power until February 24, 2008...where he resigned and gave power to his younger brother Raul. So far he holds the record for longest serving head of state in the Americas.

Idi Amin Dada of Uganda who overthrew Milton Obote, leading the nation into another leftist military state, which killed around an estimate of 500,000 people.

Foday Sankoh of Sierra Leone. Created RUF, killed and estimate of 80,000 people and displaced 500,000 others. Most of the money that helped his Revolution. From diamonds mined in Sierra Leone by prisoners of war, smuggled out into neighboring Liberia and into the market.

Charles Taylor of Liberia, coming to power in the First Liberian Civil War, accused of war crimes and is currently being held in the detention facility in the UN.

I do think that the poor and middle class are right to speak out they're grievances. But most of the time, they are blinded.

Also, i believe that letting the military take control of Egypt is just going to bring another military dictatorship into place, considering that Mubarak was the one that gave the last order for the military to take control of the state of affairs. Right now, everything is possible. The United States CIA could intervene, and assassinate democratic activist, as well as radical activist. Egypt is in a transitional government. Heck it could go the Somalia way and just get rid of its laws altogether. The Muslim brotherhood could take power and install Shariah law...or whatever. Israel could get involved, Libya who i believe is next is also in trouble.

Also, this means that wars are no longer fought on an Earthly battlefield. Modern Wars are being fought and won on the internet.

[Zero BD]

Also, this means that wars are no longer fought on an Earthly battlefield. Modern Wars are being fought and won on the internet.

Don't think so. Mubarak was just scared to use the military in any way that would have made his removal an international decision. Haven't seen a case yet where modern wars are won on the internet. When it comes down to it, you're still gonna see a battlefield no matter what the case is.

[Insurrection]

Man, Poor Lara Logan, Hope she'll be okay.

Also, I'm few days late on this, but, It's Spread.

Looks up at previous threads....the hell?

Not again.

Edited by Insurrection, 15 February 2011 - 10:05 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Positive changes in Egypt. Good for them~

http://news.yahoo.co...tumult-24490420

[Strangelove]

maybe we should merge the threads and call it the Jasmine Revolution.

Inspired by the woman with the same name <3

[Insurrection]

Anyone remember when we opened this thread, the spreading of democratic revolution gaining steam after Tunisia spread to Egypt. Good times.

Anyway...

http://www.latimes.c...0,2968679.story

Turns out the Copic Christians and Muslims are mad at each other and religious violence has broken out.

Edited by Insurrection, 09 May 2011 - 06:22 AM.

[Strangelove]

Ahh yes...good times good times.

The world won't come to an end with armies, it will come to an end with two religions throwing each other ICBM's