54175 replies to this topic

[Shashank95]

Ash x Serena XDDD

Ash x Misty for life 

[narusaku256]

Ash x Misty for life 

No way in hell

[Shashank95]

No way in hell

Whatever you say   

[BlackBird19]

@xxRomanceGirlxx: Like I said before I get why you viewed it that way. There's no right or wrong just differing opinions. Why I say that she feels pathetic for holding on to that pt1 side of herself and not that she feels it's her fault that he's lost (though I'll give you she probably partly feels that way) is the fact she describes how she always knew she could never do anything for him no matter how much she loved him. She still cared for him that way even though she knew it was never going to amount to anything. Sakura getting those things off her chest needed to happen no matter how selfish they may have seemed. Kishi felt he had to show her confront those feelings or she was always going to cling to him. It was like she finally had a realization that her love for Sasuke really only ever mattered to her, never to him and that disgusted her. That kind of realization allows her move past those romantic feelings for Sasuke and accept whatever she knows she started to feel for Naruto. It's like LuckyChi7 said recently, Sasuke is her last and greatest obstacle to clear so she can really move forward.

Edited by BlackBird19, 21 October 2014 - 02:35 AM.

[Elicit]

I love what TVTropes says about the romantic subplot in this manga:

 

Ship Tease: The series is caught between an insistence on milking fan interest in the Love Dodecahedron for all it's worth on the one hand, and a genre-typical reluctance to actually deal with Romance Arcs on the other. As a result, whatever bones are thrown to the shippers tend to end up in this category. Even though "moments" do happen, they are never played to the point where a Relationship Upgrade or Ship Sinking can be declared with any certainty; instead of following through, the plot quickly, elegantly and invariably pulls away, sometimes for years, before revisiting the issue. In the series' final arcs, the teases become gradually bolder, and yet the "tease-backpedal" dynamic is still in place in spite of that, with the backpedals becoming markedly more calculated and deliberate; this gives the strengthening impression that this little dangling plot point is, more than anything else, the author's favorite way to troll that part of his audience still masochistic enough to pay attention. To wit:

• Naruto's crush on Sakura is either comic relief or something that'll grow into something more, and every now and then the audience is invited to ponder the second possibility. Apart from the obvious leg-up it has purely due to involving the male and female lead and the latter in classic Tsundere capacity, Sakura has certainly grown to respect Naruto very much; the manga has already established that Naruto does not just have a crush on Sakura but that he actually loves her, and has lapsed into "does Sakura possibly also feel something" on three-odd occasions. Readers may also note a theme of generational parallelism with this would-be relationship — the dynamic between Naruto and Sakura has been canonically juxtaposed with that between Jiraiya and Tsunade (who, from a certain viewing angle, ought to be taken as Star-Crossed Lovers due to their namesakes and Jiraiya's early demise), and with the dynamic between Naruto's late parents — with that last tidbit made much more pronounced by Naruto's mom's parting advice to "find a girl like her" and Naruto's dad immediate conclusion that Sakura is probably Naruto's girlfriend just by looking at her.
  • On the flip side: Since it has been established that Naruto really does love Sakura, and since those few ambiguous moments hinting that Sakura could possibly also have feelings for Naruto, the manga has for a very long time refused to spend even a single panel dwelling on either of those things, instead opting for the old "comic relief" or "Naruto has earned his respect" angle whenever the Naruto/Sakura dynamic is revisited at all. Even when taken into account on their full merit, these long-past moments pale in comparison to the constant reminders of Sakura's resilient feelings for Sasuke, and certainly in comparison to the big suggestive theatrics that come into play whenever Naruto and Hinata get to interact. The last apparent milestone dealing with Naruto and Sakura's relationship was a scene where Sakura "confessed" her love to Naruto only for the in-universe audience to balk and for Naruto to call her out for "lying to herself" — and for Word of God to later confirm that nothing of what Sakura said was real. To top it off, even this last promising-sounding "girlfriend" tease ends up undercut, in classic fashion, when Naruto reflects on his mom's advice, gets to the part about finding a girl like her and then implicitly admits that part is not going according to plan at all.
• The relationship between Sasuke and Sakura is similar to that between Sakura and Naruto in that Sasuke also initially thought that Sakura was loathsome and annoying, and also grew to see her as a human being and even as someone important to him. This is highlighted during part I where Sasuke goes on a destructive rampage when he learns that his opponents have hurt Sakura, and later it takes a hug from her to calm him down and end his violent frenzy; and later, when he leaves the village and Sakura begs him not to leave her, and he says "thank you" before knocking her out and leaving, indicating that he still appreciates her after all. Most of all, Sakura's feelings for Sasuke remain painfully present for her throughout the manga, no matter the depths of vengeful depravity Sasuke sinks into. Sakura's resilient, almost destructive obsession with Sasuke is very apparent, and is rivalled only by Naruto's own; she thinks of Sasuke often, is awestruck whenever he appears even as he gives her no regard, and at some point she even gets it into her head that she must kill him to save him from himself, only for her to be unable to do it in the end, because she still loves him so much.
  • On the flip side: The relationship between Sasuke and Sakura is different from that between Sakura and Naruto in that once Sasuke goes off the deep end, we are shown- repeatedly, in very stark and explicit terms - that there is nothing at all left of his previous ambiguous feelings. He eventually becomes homicidal and insane, she (as mentioned above) almost tries to kill him, he tries to kill her twice and he fails to react to her in any emotional way whenever they interact, despite having plenty of opportunities to do so. During the arcs where the above holds true, which comprise the larger part of the manga, Sakura is effectively a Love Martyr and the idea of the two of them together seems like pure fantasy. Even during Sasuke's very short tenure as The Atoner, he treats Sakura as a mere annoyane; when he sheds this masquerade and reveals his horrific true ambition, Sakura finally calls him out on his treatment of her - to which he responds with an ice-cold "you're annoying", which is a Call Back to Sasuke's initial impression of her, and suggests that in the end, his feelings towards her have never been anything but spiteful and indifferent. This seems to be a direct authorial statement, bordering on a Take That; Sakura was deluding herself this whole time with her romanticized conception of Sasuke as a noble romantic interest who got away and has tragically fallen into evil, and the same goes for the audience members who shared this conception.
• Naruto and Hinata have a peculiar thing going on in that as the arcs go by, their sporadic interactions seem to progress from a silly Oblivious to Love dynamic to what the so-inclined reader might interpret as a deep emotional connection. There is a very distinct motif of parallelism where they repeat each other's words and actions; They seem to draw extreme reactions out of one another - by this point Hinata has one too many times thrown herself at the face of apparent certain death to save Naruto or pulled him out of a Despair Event Horizon, and it was on account of her apparent death that Naruto went on his greatest berserk rampage in the entire series. This is in addition to a grab bag of Love Tropes from the book (Everyone Can See It stings in both directions; "From looking at your eyes, I can see..."; Holding Hands; mental calls for help that apparently, inexplicably, reach across the dimensions) and the suggestive fact that Hinata was one of the first characters conceived for the series during the early pilot stage (Among the things that were introduced in the creative process later than her: Sasuke, Sakura, Hidden villages, ninjas).
  • On the flip side: If Hinata is supposed to be such an important character, the author certainly did a great job keeping the fans from figuring this out. The events mentioned above are the exception, rather than the rule, as far as Hinata's role in the story goes. She spends nearly all the manga Out of Focus and all but forgotten about, both in-universe by Naruto and out-of-universe by the author. The above events do happen, but once each of them does, the plot carries on pretty much as if it didn't. This repeatedly detracts from their whole interaction and cheapens it considerably, at points getting fans wondering whether there was anything there at all to begin with or it was just a trick of the light. For instance, after triumphing over Neji thanks in part to Hinata's inspiration, Naruto just doesn't talk to her for something like 5 arcs and a Time Skip, and when he does it's essentially a "hi" and nothing more; He has yet to address her Anguished Declaration of Love directly to this day; and even the hand-holding moment is defused in short order, as Hinata is swallowed back in the crowd of side characters in the very next chapter, and 15-odd chapters later Naruto is having hearty chuckles about Sakura possibly being his girlfriend and not dwelling on what happened with Hinata at all. Further, some of the more significant moments mentioned above are set up such that it is technically up for debate whether Naruto is being emphatic towards Hinata specifically, or just towards all his allies and benefactors, with Hinata serving as a recognizable 'face' for that group.

 

• •  

[Silent Storm]

Yeah, I can get behind what you're saying, BlackBird

 

As much as I (and others) dislike that chapter and how it went down, at the end of the day SasuSaku has always been about Sakura and her feelings being detrimental towards her character. I hate it because it's only made the SasuSaku side even more confident (when they have no reason to be) and made us still doubt a NaruSaku ending, but Kishimoto HAD to drag out her feelings till the end as that's the only plot she has now.

 

Moving on means resolution for her character, and resolution with her feelings towards Sasuke means it opens the pathways for NaruSaku happening. This is likely why Kishimoto spent the majority of part 2 developing their relationship but still kept her hung on Sasuke. With feelings for two boys, with the other outright rejecting her love and affection, she'll finally gain perspective on her situation and choose the one that makes her happy. :)

 

Atleast that's what I want to believe. You never know with Kishimoto these days and it isn't over till Sakura kills it herself.

 

Edit - That TVTropes section on SasuSaku is amazing holy kitten lmao.

Edited by Silent Storm, 21 October 2014 - 02:52 AM.

[AHK]

There shouldn't even be any SS fans left that believe it'll be canon after this chapter...

Unfortunately, there are. And they all pretend that Sasuke has done nothing wrong.

[Elicit]

Was she having fun in her little make-believe fantasy of true love? I have no reason to like her, and I can see no reason why she would like me. 

[BlazingDynamo]

Was she having fun in her little make-believe fantasy of true love? I have no reason to like her, and I can see no reason why she would like me. 

Probably because of the bench scene that's why.

[Elicit]

Probably because of the bench scene that's why.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh God.

[Silent Storm]

Unfortunately, there are. And they all pretend that Sasuke has done nothing wrong.

 

What I see with SasuSaku right now is untold levels of spin and rationalization because deep down, if this was any other ship it would have sunk to the bottom of the ocean by now and SasuSaku knows it.

 

I mean take a look at this:

 

Was she having fun in her little make-believe fantasy of true love? I have no reason to like her, and I can see no reason why she would like me. 

 

It does not get anymore blunt or clearer than this. We're at the end of the manga and NOT ONCE has Sasuke shown an ounce of romantic interest or developing feelings for Sakura. It's not a matter of circumstance or any of that bs people try and use to rationalize what he says. He flat out has no interest in her romantically and that point was driven home thoroughly during the IT arc with the disregard for her life and put down her character. The fall grab moment and AU cover does not in any way make up for the lack of relevance Sakura has on Sasuke's character or repeated negative moments that work against SasuSaku more than it helps the ship.

 

By all means ship SasuSaku in fanon or because they look attractive, but SasuSaku is what it is, vile disgusting kitten in canon with irreparable flaws in it's foundation (what SasuSaku even tries to argue it has are virtually non-existent as well) which STILL persist when we're at the end of the manga. For whatever headcanons SasuSaku tries to apply, Kishimoto has thoroughly dismantled all of them with 694+. There is nothing to celebrate with SasuSaku because it romanticizes antagonism and lack of respect for fellow human beings.

 

At this point any arguments trying to rationalize Sasuke's treatment of Sakura and even supporting SasuSaku as if it's some positive, romantic couple is pure delusion. Hell, you'd have to be delusional to support this pairing with those arguments.

 

There is a small part of me still clinging onto to Kishimoto still have the integrity to not make this crap canon because is a failure in every department. No sane author, hell not even the worst author would go down this path.

Edited by Silent Storm, 21 October 2014 - 03:14 AM.

[Gravenimage]

I will always lol when they say Sakura was lying in her confession. It doesn't matter if Kishi said she was been honest they will believe what they want to believe. I guess that logic makes sense because that's why they believe NH and SS can still happen with only 3 chapters left in the manga and still no evidence of either pairing having development or positive development, or even parallels to support either pairing.

[Elicit]

AND HE MOCKS THE PAIRING AND ALL IT STANDS FOR.

 

YOU WOULD THINK HE ALREADY SUNK THIS GARBAGE BY NOW.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Lmfao gotta give TVtropes credit for NaruHina and NaruSaku. At least they consider both sides of the argument.

 

The SS one is amazing though lol.

[Shashank95]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh God.

Seriously though. All this kitten with SS is due to Naruto's gullible stupidity. If he had the balls to say those words to Sakura himself, we could have avoided SS all together. Kishi needs to resolve that scene or i'm gonna get all homicidal up on his ass    

[Swagkura]

As far as I'm concerned, SS is the devil's ship of the Naruto fandom. It's like a never ending cycle of despair and destruction: for only one person

[Elicit]

It's as if the SS fandom sees the pairing in the eyes of Sakura herself. Let that sink in.

[Iwantbuns]

They want the girl to have their happy ending... What happened to Naruto's feelings, the main character of the show?

[TyranntX]

On the subject of poke'shipping. I am torn between AshxMisty and AshxSerena.... Ash and misty spent A LONG 3 seasons togehter (if you include the orange Islands as it's own season), but Ash and Serena have a history (even though It was only for one summer). I guessYou could say that I am more on the AshxMisty boat since I am more USED to Misty and like her character more, but I can understand why people like Ash x Serena more.

 

on the subject of NH and SS fans. WE can all agree that (sorry if I break the rules here) they aren't very smart. I mean I once came across an NH fan who's ONLY counter argument had NOTHING to do with NH, SS, or NS but rather was a failed attempt to "Insult my intellect". HE/She didn't even READ my very long rant on how Sakura is better suited for naruto than Hinata, and they called ME stupid? I have had my debates with moronic fans before but THIS takes the cake.

 

on the Subject of chapter 696. I said this once before (I think) and I'll say it again, This chapter KILLED SS. and when SS dies so dose NH, And yet fans still use it against us...... Again I say (not to break the rules if I am) SS and NH fans..... are idiots. so almost recaping the chapter when Sasuke left the village = SS? I don't think so. In fact I would not be surprized if the last chapter was similar to act 1 (only with sasuke losing this time around and having BOTH Naruto and Sasuke in the hospital). Sure sakura was crying over sasuke AGAIN but it was nothing like in act 1, sure she loves him.... but there is a difference between loving some one, and being IN LOVE with them. Sakura is NOT in love with Sasuke.

 

and finally on the subject of NaruSaku.... I still believe it has a chance... how much of a chance? shooting the biggest fish in the world that is dead on dry land at point blank with a spartan laser... yeah With SS an NH having no hope of going canon in the next 3 chapters, NS is surly going to shine above all. not that I had any doubts, but I am disapointed that it didn't go canon sooner. Kishimoto had A LOT of oppertunities to make this happen, so many that you could make a joke out of it. but better late than never I guess.

 

Even though the fight is still going, I think it safe to call victory for ship. 

 

CONGRATULATIONS NARUSAKU! YOU ARE THE LAST SHIP .... erm..... SAILING!  See what I did there?

Edited by TyranntX, 21 October 2014 - 03:49 AM.

[BlazingDynamo]

We only have 3 chapters left and somehow SS fans still have faith that Sasuke will suddenly fall in love with Sakura but she only wants to save Sasuke not be in a relationship with him.