48 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

Been a while since I commented on this, but I feel I must cause I found a few things that I thought was different.

First a few things:

1st: Super Saiyen God mode can't be used in this fight. Since it requires 6 other Saiyen to make it a possibility and Death Battle forbids outside help, it breaks the rules. The only way to be fair is to also allow Superman to get outside help too.

2nd: I am tired of people considering the sun outside help for Superman. That's his biology and we can't claim this as anything more. What next? We should take away air because Goku needs it to breathe? (I also find it funny that the sun is considered outside help, but the same people think Goku should have used kryptonite.)

Anyway, the real reason I wanted to commented is because I realized something. A lot of people complained that Superman was very inconsistent and that because he has multiple writers his powers vary too much. While I admit there is some vary and their stories change, this is also true for Dragonball. (And that had two writers at most.)

I have seen many Dragonball fanboys argue that Goku is much stronger and faster than Death Battle originally said he was and some say that he could bench press the planet too (just in his base form from what they say.) I thought to myself "We have never seen this happen so how can we take it as fact?" I realized there is a lot more to it than that. Take example when Goku could barely lift 40 tons in base form. (There is a theory it was actually 400 tons, but even then that is still inconsistent. and supposedly he was lifting more when he was a child.) Now this was in the Buu arc and is VERY inconsistent yet we have Toriyama write it this way. Isn't that weird?

Another example of inconsistent is when Frieza blew up planet Namek, but supposedly "held back." Why would he hold back? We know the planet destruction didn't kill him nor would it. He also says he can breath in space, yet he is afraid of blowing up the planet right then and there? Speaking of planet busters, how many characters have actually blow up a planet? We have Frieza, but actually he just blew up the core. We also have cell saying he will destroy the solar system, but what does he by this? Will he blow up the sun or literally destroy through the shear force of the Kamehameha wave? It is really hard on what we consider a planet buster or a solar system buster or galaxy buster when we never really see a character do it and even when we did (I think Buu did it once) it was never really explained how. So we don't know if it was all at once or planet by planet or whatever.

We also have moments where apparently Nappa can shake the planet apart or even a blow up apart of it, yet we have Frieza have trouble blowing up the planet even though Frieza is like thousands of times stronger.

What is my point to this? I am not trying to prove why Goku is weaker or anything like that, but I want people to understand that even though Superman is inconsistent between writers, Goku or Dragonball for that matter has also been very inconsistent. And the ones I pointed above are just some inconsistencies I remember off the top of my head.

The same has been applied to Goku that has also been applied to Superman. Since they are the most powerful in their universe, you have to either weaken them or create more powerful opponents for them to fight. If won't be interesting if they just owned each and every battle right off the bat.

[ChocolatXVanilla14]

Hmmmm I don't know about this because I talked to my sister (she's in the Air Force) and she said that what she saw and they taught her is that brawn against brain, brawn would still win. Even if you are smarter you won't be able to win against someone much better and more experienced than you. She saw a fight against a smart girl and a big strong guy. No matter how great her plans to confuse and lure him were she couldn't win in the end because he was much more powerful than her. If you do get normal human superman and no ki goku, goku will win no matter how smart superman is. Also goku isn't that dumb specially when it comes to fighting, he can be, not exactly smart but able with normal intelligence. Even with no ki he would still be powerful due to the fact that he's and alien from a warrior race that has been trained to kill and was born on a planet with lots of gravity and has trained in large gravity planets while superman hasn't really.....he just has his powers and brains mostly. Sorry if I'm wrong in some things I'm not really that into it. And sorry if some superman facts are wrong too I don't really watch superman I do watch dragon ball however....

[James S Cassidy]

Hmmmm I don't know about this because I talked to my sister (she's in the Air Force) and she said that what she saw and they taught her is that brawn against brain, brawn would still win. Even if you are smarter you won't be able to win against someone much better and more experienced than you. She saw a fight against a smart girl and a big strong guy. No matter how great her plans to confuse and lure him were she couldn't win in the end because he was much more powerful than her. If you do get normal human superman and no ki goku, goku will win no matter how smart superman is. Also goku isn't that dumb specially when it comes to fighting, he can be, not exactly smart but able with normal intelligence. Even with no ki he would still be powerful due to the fact that he's and alien from a warrior race that has been trained to kill and was born on a planet with lots of gravity and has trained in large gravity planets while superman hasn't really.....he just has his powers and brains mostly. Sorry if I'm wrong in some things I'm not really that into it. And sorry if some superman facts are wrong too I don't really watch superman I do watch dragon ball however....

"Intelligence" is really a term that is subjective to definition. Goku is not really so dumb that he can't think, but rather he is kind of stupid in areas that could be used against him which at times made him seem....gullible. Goku rather prefers a fair fight than taking advantage of an opponents weakness. Noble as it is, it sometimes has cost him to lose ground.

Superman however still is smarter than Goku and as stated can process information faster. So Superman can think as fast as Goku can fight. This is even in the New 52 universe when he can process a whole library of books in a matter of minutes. So Superman's intelligence is much greater. Superman has also built his own technology that is even better than Batman's. In fact, he has shown to be able to improve Batman's equipment, but doesn't tell him because he doesn't want to hurt his friend's feelings. Superman has battled and outsmarted beings like Brainiac who supposedly held the knowledge of the entire universe.

However, since brain is not a matter at this and we will assume that intelligence is equal for both parties, then what was the deciding factor? Goku is squishy. Sure, he can take a beating, but Goku can't survive supernovas or survive being thrown into the sun. This is where Superman has an edge. He is a huge tank and has tanked supernovas before. He has survived stuff that Goku can not. I know people want to argue that he can survive being in the sun, but in reality he can't. Not when every other villain can die or has died by that means.

Like the DB guys said: "Tenacity can only prolong the inevitable."

However, you brought up this statement
"If you do get normal human superman and no ki goku, goku will win no matter how smart superman is"

I have to ask, did you apply say technology that Superman could use? Like Superman can be reduced to say "Batman level" with technology and combat knowledge. Kryptonians are known for their high intelligence and with the schooling that Jor-El gave Superman while he was flying towards earth it is not unreasonable for Superman to create technology like Batman. Goku, while not stupid, never had that kind of schooling. Sure, he has martial arts knowledge, but Goku has never been a real tech-savy kind of guy. I mean he barely can drive a car.

Let me bring up a piece of technology. 3 words: "Phantom Zone Projector."
One hit ends Goku and since he can't rely on flight or any of his Ki energy abilities he would have to rely on his own senses. It is a gun that whatever it hits sends it to a zone similar to that of the Dead Zone in the Dragonball universe. If Superman can get the drop on Goku then Goku would lose. I think the fight would be more even if you take away both of their super powers, but I still think Superman would win because he has alien technology that surpasses Goku's muscles.

 

The whole argument of Brain vs Brawn is a weird argument that I think needs to be applied a certain way because isn't technology considered part of intelligence? Isn't that what makes Batman up? What he doesn't have in strength he evens out with technology? So Brain vs Brawn would be like someone who brings nothing, but muscle to a fight vs another one who brings guns and knives which is considered technology. You can always apply tactics such as sharpened sticks with poison on them or booby traps to lure the opponent in. Sometimes even a small dart with a strong sleeping agent can take down a muscular man. I think this is what they mean. Pure muscle alone is not enough to beat an opponent. (As well as my Great Uncle has shown me, you don't need a lot of muscle to bring someone down to their knees. Sometimes it is not how hard you hit, but where you hit them and he has brought down people twice his size and 3 times as strong.)

So I ask, why is it that when we have a brain vs brawn we always give the brawn, brain as well (Or giving brain the same amount of strength)? That's not exactly what the idiom means. It more about applied intelligence vs relying on pure strength alone.

Goku vs Superman is not exactly a Brain vs Brawn fight because both of them have both. Sure, Goku is not as intelligent as Superman in terms of technology wise, but he is a martial artist master which in itself is intelligence, but a different kind of intelligence. Superman won because he can take a lot more abuse and still come back fighting. He doesn't tire as easily as Goku can and can go on for days still fighting while Goku can lose energy just by using a huge planet destroying attack. The video fight itself is just for theatrics, what really is the defining factor is the numbers and the panels showing their feats. The facts and the limits.

Despite contrary belief, Superman doesn't become instantly depowered when the sun is gone. He has shown to still be super powered for a good 5 days without sun.

"A man who has the power to overcome any limit vs A man who has no limits."

[narusakuforlife1667]

Superman will win

[Superman333]

Superman would snap Goku like a twig . Superman always holds back . The sun only makes him stronger . Goku cannot hold his own against Darkseid or Doomsday . Superman has beaten both of them in his weakest state already and thats when he recieved his MASSIVE POWER REDUCTION . Goke doesn't stand a chance . Superman is basically a god and he has no set power level unlike Goku and Superman's invulnerability .? whooooo , he is basically invulnerable to everything except kryptonite and magic . And goku does not surpass Supes in anything. Superman is way faster , Superman has gone so fast that he almost ripped a hole in the end of time in which The Spectre had to warn Superman to stop before he did .  Goku goes at Massively Hypersonic speeds at the most and Instant transmission does not equal speed of light speeds , Supes easily breaks the speed of light .  Superman doesnt get tired , he doesn't have to eat or sleep and he doesn't have to breathe .  Goku gets tired quite fast for a alien from another planet , and Goku has to eat and sleep . and plus once Goku's ki is out he is done, yes Goku might still have some raw strength left but he wouldn't be able to fly or move fast or have durability without his ki . Just because the sun goes away for a while doesn't mean anything because Superman has alot of reserves in his cells in which he stores the Yellow sun raditation. Goku will get his ass tore up .  

 

Superman won this kitten by infinity .  Also I can get Supergirl in here to kick Gohan's ass too and Vegeta . 

 

A Saiyan cannot beat a Kryptonian .  And Superman shakes the planet just with a flex of his muscles . :)

Edited by Superman333, 15 November 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[Nostradamus]

All I have to say is this :

 

or this

 

 

[Nostradamus]

A rap battle:

[Gojira]

The problem with Superman vs. Goku is that its a pretty uneven match.

DB kittened up with the stats sure, but they haven't even used feats where Superman really cuts loose like carrying a small star, flying to a planet that's multiple galaxies away in a couple minutes, withstanding a blast from kittening Darkseid and Imperiax.

canon wise there really is no way any DBZ character compares.

[Illnevergiveup3]

The problem with Superman vs. Goku is that its a pretty uneven match.

DB f**cked up with the stats sure, but they haven't even used feats where Superman really cuts loose like carrying a small star, flying to a planet that's multiple galaxies away in a couple minutes, withstanding a blast from kittening Darkseid and Imperiax.

canon wise there really is no way any DBZ character compares.

Superman's stats goes way beyond that and keeps on improving.