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Where Did Naruto's Storytelling Decline?


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#1 LuckyChi7

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:01 AM

I know this has been a topic has been brought up before, but I really feel it would be great to discuss our perspective on this series, and get everyones viewpoints on when the story started to diminish in terms of quality in writing. Don't just say because the ending, because of pairings, because of sasuke, because of Hinata, etc.  Leave a detailed description as to when and where it happened for you. 

 

Here's mine for example: 

 

I felt that the quality in Naruto's storytelling  started dropping the ball in it's story telling was at the 5 Kage Summit Arc. The thing is all the characters especially Naruto the main character himself went through a lot during the Pain Arc so much so that he got to taste the sense of revenge in midst of his battle against Pain for what happened to Jiraiya. More importantly, Naruto himself actually felt like Hero and that was like the peak for him because he managed to achieve something he was seeking since the beginning of the series. Acknowledgement and respect from everyone in the village. Yes, he's not hokage by this point, but seeing where he was at that point was just stunning. That was the peak of where Naruto was a series in terms of characters and more importantly storytelling. The Five Kage Summit was a follow up so it had alot to live up when it comes to the story. Shifting to Sasuke wasn't really a big issue for me initially in fact part of saw it coming given his declaration at the end of The Pursuit Itachi Arc. You also have to consider that Kishi's writing style in Part 2 was structured like this the first arc was Naruto, and the second arc was Sasuke. This would become a pattern until we got the Confining Jinchuriki Arc which solely focused on Naruto.  The point is why pick the 5 Kage Summit? 

 

In terms of pacing I think the pacing of the story was fine, but again it's how the story was told. So one would figure what did the story have to tell for Naruto Uzumaki who at this point is established as The Hero of the Leaf. Things are only brought up, but they don't go to their fullest extent. Remember,  Naruto specifically told Sakura and Kakashi he knows how Sasuke feels because of the revenge he felt. Yes it showcases growth in his character, but instead he uses that as an excuse to further his idealistic approach to saving Sasuke. Kakashi was the only one who was on point to him about his situation, but still nothing. Let's not forget at this point Naruto is a hero and what does he do? Beg to the Raikage's feet like a poor person what?? Telling Sakura during her confession that the promise didn't matter to him and he's doing the Sasuke thing for his own reasons, and also telling her that everything's a lie when it comes to the confession. Hyperventilates because he can't imagine a world without Sasuke.. Already you see a contrast between what he went through in Pain and what he went through in 5 Kage Summit is like night and day.

 

Sasuke at this point was becoming a full fledge antagonist, he went from being an anti-hero to straight up villain cause at first it's going after the elders, and then everyone in the village.  What happens? All of those who knew Sasuke couldn't believe atleast Ino and Sakura.. Look being shocked is one thing crying on the side like your soul got crushed no that's just dumb. Also you got to consider the character inconsistencies like Yamato's expression when it comes Sakura confessing, He knows this back from the Sai and Sasuke Arc when it comes to Sakura. Why at this point is he so surprised? He knows this already? Sakura's case has been brought up time and time again, but I'll just say where Sai revealing that Naruto loves her, and her confession all leading to killing Sasuke out of her own love for him? Does she succeed? No she changes her mind cause "Love" I'm sorry that's stupid.. the least that could've happened is for her to go through with it, atleast she tried. No she doesn't even get that.  Then you got the whole thing with Naruto and Sasuke's conversation... Sasuke went so far to declare bloodshed, and Naruto is still naive! My friend speech..ugh... man.  See at first I found it extremely odd when I got to this point in the story, but the more I thought the more this arc I noticed the problems the series had I didn't pick up on the first time around. That's why I picked the 5 Kage Summit Arc for being the point in the story where I felt the storytelling started to fall for Naruto. 

 

 

 

Don't worry you guys I'm not expecting a 3 paragraph explanation, just 1 simply paragraph you know 3 to 5 detailed sentences. Wow I sound like I'm giving you guys an assignment, but really I just thought it be worth sharing. 


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#2 DrK

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:04 AM

Yeah. Kage Summit. Sakura went from being able to fight Sasuke in Orochimaru's base to not being able to touch him. Naruto gets his ass beat for no reason at all, just to show off how much he loves Sasuke and how much he's willing to put Sasuke above himself. Kakashi pretends like he's willing to put down Sasuke, but in fact does nothing. Another time where Kakashi sucked and I hated him. Sakura's confession should never have happened if we were going to have a NS ending, or it should just never have happened at all. Sasuke... I can't say anything bad about how he acts. I like how he is completely aghast and can't believe that Naruto cares about him this much and that he refuses to leave him alone. Probably the only character to remain true to themselves. Well, Kakashi remained true to being a douchebag, I suppose. Naruto went from the ultimate achievement of his life, being a hero acknowledged by all, the love of his life was starting to return his feelings. And he chooses to lower himself. He gets physically beaten over USELESS information, and humiliates himself in front of the Raikage accomplishing nothing. Completely fails to capture a seriously fatigued and probably somewhat wounded Sasuke, just because he, what? Wants to be honorable and fight him at full strength later? That's not even explained. He just tried to kill Sakura and Naruto hardly cared. How DARE Kishimoto do that to the shonen hero that made him famous?

 

Almost everything was bad. There was some good stuff after that like Kushina, but things did eventually get worse in the end. But Kage Summit was the beginning of the end.


Edited by DrK, 13 November 2017 - 10:24 AM.


#3 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:11 AM

The hunt for Itachi arc and that Snake shield BS, along with everything else that revolved around Sasuke in that arc.



#4 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:56 PM

Kage Summit Arc.

Naruto went from like an actual hero to "Sasuke Number 1 fangirl" in a moment of one chapter. He had the opportunity to gain so much and he denied all of it because "I couldn't save my boyfriend." He gets his ass beat for no reason, treats all of his friends like crap, and......*sighs heavy* hyperventilates and faints when everyone else says Sasuke has become truly evil and he must be killed to be stopped....He treats Sakura like crap, He treats all the other Kages like crap, and he does little to no understanding of anyone or anything that is happening in the real world because of "SASKEEEEEHHHH." Seriously, there was so much Sasuke woreship from Naruto that it was downright disturbing. Sasuke Sasuke Sasuke Sasuke Sasuke. That is really all he gave a kitten about. And everyone he talked to he kept talking about Sasuke.

Sakura....talk about a pancake waffle. Flip flip flip flip flip flip. This flip flopping of emotions and apparently she loved the ground so much because all she did was kept staring at it. Over and over. It was just....

Sasuke..."Mr. Excuses" could have had his way with whatever he wanted to do. Nothing could have stopped him except for every plot convinence in the world. No matter what it was, it always stopped him from being something greater. Being the true villain he needed to be, "I am goona destroy Kono....OOOH LOOK A PENNY." Talk about "No balls Sasuke"

And all of it...every single one of them....was because Kishimoto WOULDN'T put any plot point to rest. He couldn't make Sasuke a true villain because he knew Sasuke had to be redeemable so he had Sasuke straddle the line. He could have had Naruto tell Hinata no and tell Sakura how he felt to her, but he had to keep either denying or ignoring the two girls because even though he could have made NS or NH canon back then he knew he had to keep teasing the pairings with moments and more confusing plot dilemmas. He could have had Sakura gotten over Sasuke in several moments and actually grow as a character, but again he had to make her straddle a line because he had to make it remain ambiguous the whole time to keep bringing the pairing fans back in.

He just had no balls because he knew...he KNEW he had to stale the wole story until chapter 700.

"I hate people who lie to themselves."

Funny how Naruto never says this to anyone, BUT Sakura herself. Funny how Naruto never says that anyone else is lying to themselves about how they felt about the world or how they felt.

 

"Obito, you're lying to yourself. You think Rin would want you like this?"
"Nagato, you're lying to yourself. This is not how peace can be achieved. You can't make peace through tryanny."

You can make all these lines match perfectly because all these characters did lie to themselves, but no...only SAKURA was lying to herself. Hell, Naruto was lying to himself about everything the entire time. He lied to himself about Sasuke and denied anything bad Sasuke did. He lied to himself about how unworthy, he was and how he didn't deserve anything, and thanks to the last, he lied to himself about his feelings to Sakura.

This is what drives me up the wall every time I rethink of it.

The plot had problems before, but these were MAJOR problems that look like forced dilemmas that should have never existed in the first place. Just like Ninja Gaiden and Boruto....it is forced drama for the sake of drama that always ends in the worst type of conclusion.

"Salad has a problem with her dad and doesn't think her parents are actually her parents? Oh well, just accept everything at face value nad everything is okay."
"Boruto hates his father for not being around and tries to tell him this? Oh well, Boruto says he likes Sasuke more and accepts everything at face value"

And yet, all of these issues keep being rehash despite no answers being given....give me a friggin break.

This is why we say they are miserable. This is why we say the families are dysfunctional...because no problems get solved and all anyone gets told is "You just have to accept the way things are."

Like I said in my other post
Naruto's moral of the story is
"You have to feel what I tell you to feel otherwise I am gonna force you to feel that through physical or emotional abuse."

I wish Obito and Madara won the war.
 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 November 2017 - 05:00 PM.

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#5 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:02 PM

The first glimmers of this series' demise began in the Sasuke Retrieval arc in part one. There, Kishimoto subtly rewrote Naruto and Sasuke's characters to the point of them having a brotherly bond. As readers, we had no idea the effect this would have on later arcs thus gave it a pass, but in hindsight, the success and popularity of that fight appears to have given Kishimoto the incentive to continue utterly rewriting Naruto's character to the point to where he become utterly obsessed with Sasuke to a psychopathic degree. We saw signs of this once again during the Tenchi Bridge Arc where Naruto went four tails merely over hearing Sasuke's name mentioned and how he nearly allowed Sasuke to kill him.

 

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The manga was still pretty good at this point, so we once again gave this kind of BS an undeserving pass. What's really glaring here is how Naruto puts up no defense. If not for Sai jumping in to save him, Naruto would have allowed Sasuke to kill him there. The manga continued declining in following arcs exclusively focused on Sasuke, but completely went to hell once the Kage Summit arc began.


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 13 November 2017 - 05:12 PM.

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#6 Analyzer

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:15 PM

The Storytelling in Naurto did not necessarily "Decline", in fact I disagree with the OP and think the title is rather subjective in nature, as it suggests there is an objective decline, when such a thing completely relies on subjectivity. I do not think writing can or should be measured in that way, as you then generalize all material from the arc you list onward. A better analysis is to measure weak and strong points of arcs.

 

On an arc by arc basis, the first Naruto segments suffer in lack of needed Team 7 development, but the Chuunin Exams excel so much for what they are that this issue is weakened in the face of major praiseworthy ideas. This glaring part one issue, which is way before the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, and I think that arc is fine as it was, does not hurt part one itself, which is relatively well done, but hurts the later parts of part two.

 

In my opinion part two grew in quality and reached its most praised summit during the Pain Arc. It is less that the following Arc, the Kage Summit is "declining", but more that the Pain Arc was just that good. The Kage Summit Arc suffers because of the glaring problem of part one, Team 7 development, but the arc otherwise is actually not bad for what it is, and works very well on narrative flow, as well as the segment with training with Bee, both as set ups for the War Arc. They are necessary.

 

The War Arc is set to be the big grande finale, and it's certainly big in scope. It does give the other ninja time to shine, but this is harmed I think by the introduction of the former Konoha Kage set up, which ties into the Uchiha/Sasuke issues. The removal of  all of the former Kage, and having Sasuke move to the alliance post dealing with Kabuto instead, is definitely an edit I have advised and still advise would have been better for both pacing and character focus. The later War Arc has an issue with Kaguya's lack of foreshadowing, but I do not believe it is as big as most make it out to be in criticism, and it was exciting and a good twist otherwise. The final part of the War Arc is sheer excellence and is the closest thing to coming close to what the Pain Arc did.

 

I do notice that most complaints in these posts, even the OP's to an extent, are summed up as "Not liking the characters", rather than actual storytelling issues. 



#7 sushi.

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:51 PM

It was like falling down stairs and before we noticed it it was on the bottom
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#8 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:07 PM

The first glimmers of this series' demise began in the Sasuke Retrieval arc in part one. There, Kishimoto subtly rewrote Naruto and Sasuke's characters to the point of them having a brotherly bond. As readers, we had no idea the effect this would have on later arcs thus gave it a pass, but in hindsight, the success and popularity of that fight appears to have given Kishimoto the incentive to continue utterly rewriting Naruto's character to the point to where he become utterly obsessed with Sasuke to a psychopathic degree. We saw signs of this once again during the Tenchi Bridge Arc where Naruto went four tails merely over hearing Sasuke's name mentioned and how he nearly allowed Sasuke to kill him.

 

The manga was still pretty good at this point, so we once again gave this kind of BS an undeserving pass. What's really glaring here is how Naruto puts up no defense. If not for Sai jumping in to save him, Naruto would have allowed Sasuke to kill him there. The manga continued declining in following arcs exclusively focused on Sasuke, but completely went to hell once the Kage Summit arc began.

We just gave Kishimoto too much credit. We didn't really "gave him a pass," but rather gave him a chance to explain why and he didn't. He never explained why on anything. He just kept telling us "You'll know soon" or "I'll explain it more indepth later." Jokes on us.

Again, it is lazy, but it was fine because Shonen's do have this type of style, but when it came the time to explain everything...he avoided it or downright bluffed his way through. I loved the Pein Arc despite the Hinata confession, but it was time to start talking Kishi and tells us what this is really all about and all he kept saying was "It is about bonds." James Bonds? More like junk bonds.

We should have noticed it, but we didn't. That's the only fault I say is ours. We didn't notice the signs.

 

It was like falling down stairs and before we noticed it it was on the bottom

We were the slinkies in Kishimoto's game.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 November 2017 - 06:08 PM.

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#9 winter-serenade

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:40 PM

I think it was very gradual. Because, gradually, the message of "hard work can surpass prodigy" or something of the like began to wane. Rock Lee is a perfect example of this message. However, Naruto started to veer from this message and it was all about different forms, DBZ planet busting explosions. Idk. Should've ended at the Pain arc.



#10 Phantom_999

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:15 PM

I know this has been a topic has been brought up before, but I really feel it would be great to discuss our perspective on this series, and get everyones viewpoints on when the story started to diminish in terms of quality in writing. Don't just say because the ending, because of pairings, because of sasuke, because of Hinata, etc.  Leave a detailed description as to when and where it happened for you. 

 

Here's mine for example: 

 

I felt that the quality in Naruto's storytelling  started dropping the ball in it's story telling was at the 5 Kage Summit Arc. The thing is all the characters especially Naruto the main character himself went through a lot during the Pain Arc so much so that he got to taste the sense of revenge in midst of his battle against Pain for what happened to Jiraiya. More importantly, Naruto himself actually felt like Hero and that was like the peak for him because he managed to achieve something he was seeking since the beginning of the series. Acknowledgement and respect from everyone in the village. Yes, he's not hokage by this point, but seeing where he was at that point was just stunning. That was the peak of where Naruto was a series in terms of characters and more importantly storytelling. The Five Kage Summit was a follow up so it had alot to live up when it comes to the story. Shifting to Sasuke wasn't really a big issue for me initially in fact part of saw it coming given his declaration at the end of The Pursuit Itachi Arc. You also have to consider that Kishi's writing style in Part 2 was structured like this the first arc was Naruto, and the second arc was Sasuke. This would become a pattern until we got the Confining Jinchuriki Arc which solely focused on Naruto.  The point is why pick the 5 Kage Summit? 

 

In terms of pacing I think the pacing of the story was fine, but again it's how the story was told. So one would figure what did the story have to tell for Naruto Uzumaki who at this point is established as The Hero of the Leaf. Things are only brought up, but they don't go to their fullest extent. Remember,  Naruto specifically told Sakura and Kakashi he knows how Sasuke feels because of the revenge he felt. Yes it showcases growth in his character, but instead he uses that as an excuse to further his idealistic approach to saving Sasuke. Kakashi was the only one who was on point to him about his situation, but still nothing. Let's not forget at this point Naruto is a hero and what does he do? Beg to the Raikage's feet like a poor person what?? Telling Sakura during her confession that the promise didn't matter to him and he's doing the Sasuke thing for his own reasons, and also telling her that everything's a lie when it comes to the confession. Hyperventilates because he can't imagine a world without Sasuke.. Already you see a contrast between what he went through in Pain and what he went through in 5 Kage Summit is like night and day.

 

Sasuke at this point was becoming a full fledge antagonist, he went from being an anti-hero to straight up villain cause at first it's going after the elders, and then everyone in the village.  What happens? All of those who knew Sasuke couldn't believe atleast Ino and Sakura.. Look being shocked is one thing crying on the side like your soul got crushed no that's just dumb. Also you got to consider the character inconsistencies like Yamato's expression when it comes Sakura confessing, He knows this back from the Sai and Sasuke Arc when it comes to Sakura. Why at this point is he so surprised? He knows this already? Sakura's case has been brought up time and time again, but I'll just say where Sai revealing that Naruto loves her, and her confession all leading to killing Sasuke out of her own love for him? Does she succeed? No she changes her mind cause "Love" I'm sorry that's stupid.. the least that could've happened is for her to go through with it, atleast she tried. No she doesn't even get that.  Then you got the whole thing with Naruto and Sasuke's conversation... Sasuke went so far to declare bloodshed, and Naruto is still naive! My friend speech..ugh... man.  See at first I found it extremely odd when I got to this point in the story, but the more I thought the more this arc I noticed the problems the series had I didn't pick up on the first time around. That's why I picked the 5 Kage Summit Arc for being the point in the story where I felt the storytelling started to fall for Naruto. 

 

 

 

Don't worry you guys I'm not expecting a 3 paragraph explanation, just 1 simply paragraph you know 3 to 5 detailed sentences. Wow I sound like I'm giving you guys an assignment, but really I just thought it be worth sharing. 

 

When did the story decline? For me it was the day Naruto equated Saving Sasuke to becoming Hokage, and turning everything to revolve around their "tragic bromance". It was completely unrealistic for Naruto to obsess over a guy he had no real bond with in the first place. It would have been different if thy shown as actual friends since childhood and bonded over their loneliness but nope they decided that both had to have tragic childhoods with no one understanding them. It was never believable to me now that I think about it. I mean really, if you see someone that you ASSUME you can to relate to but never actually talked to and it turned out that they are a serial killer, would you try to REASON with that person? Same thing here. Naruto can't decide whether see Sasuke as a rival or to have boners for him. On a side note where does Naruto have the AUDACITY to say Sasuke is more of a brother to him than Itachi who practically RAISED Sasuke?

 

Actually scratch my previous statement, The story fell to s#!* when the main cast decided to view Sasuke as their "man candy drug" that they couldn't live without because they were addicted to him I can't pin point anytime else where the writing was so bad


Edited by Phantom_999, 13 November 2017 - 09:17 PM.

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#11 DrK

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:12 AM

 

The manga was still pretty good at this point, so we once again gave this kind of BS an undeserving pass. What's really glaring here is how Naruto puts up no defense. If not for Sai jumping in to save him, Naruto would have allowed Sasuke to kill him there. The manga continued declining in following arcs exclusively focused on Sasuke, but completely went to hell once the Kage Summit arc began.

It was a good strategy, honestly. Sasuke was so creeped out that he could no longer do it on only a "whim". He needed actual conviction because he was so shaken by Naruto's attraction for him. So he wasted a lot of time and Sai could jump in.


Edited by DrK, 14 November 2017 - 12:13 AM.


#12 harry4e

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:52 AM

After the battle with Pain the manga started to take a dive, The BS Jutsu that bought everyone back to life was the beginning of the decline, and it also was the point where Naruto was no longer relevent to actual the plot, he had achieved his dream of being acknowledged by the entire village, and the focus turned to Uchiha's, Naruto became from someone relevant to the story to just a stand in for a Senju.

 

Ofcourse there were still some decent moments, like Kushina's introduction and the flashback was one of the best parts of the manga, but the rest was a complete mess, Obito as a villain who went through such extremes because the girl he loved died, Madara had years worth of build-up only to be replaced by a unexceptional enemy who was never mentioned even until the war started, even the bloody sage's had a a twin brother that got shoehorned in, Why? To make the Hyuga's seem more relevant? There is also the way Kurama's and Friendship grew so quickly, if you consider the actual time span, the whole thing happened in under a day, they went from wanting to kill each other to acting like they were best mates for years.


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#13 Derock

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:12 AM

I definitely agree that after the Pain Arc, the plot suddenly "dive into the mellow" sort to speak (Anyone catch my reference?!) It was definitely a ride that I won't go back on again because of inconsistency, favoritism, unnecessary development, upcoming interesting stuff that was ignored and plain old shoe-ins all end up to the ending.

 

Let me get this as a pro and con list.

 

Pros:

1) Kushina's appearance and how Naruto became a jinchuriki

2) Finally got to see the other countries (Cloud, Mist, Rock) and leaders (after not showing them ever since mentioning those said countries way back in the Chunin Exams Arc)

3) We had a Fourth Great Ninja War.

4) Minato meets Sakura...

5) Dark Naruto

 

Cons (here goes) :

 

1) The Obsession of Naruto and Sakura with Sasuke, resulted with the NS confession that riled up the pairings badly, not to mention tarnishing Naruto and Sakura's character development

2) Sasuke was all over the place and was wishy-washy

3) WHO was Tobi? Is it Madara really? Another Uchiha? Oh wait, its OBITO out of all people and we had a non-talking chapter to the reveal.

4) Hinata trying to be relevant in the scene (which led to the resulting unsatisfying ending because of favoritism and a movie that tarnish the franchise)

5) Reviving Itachi so he and Sasuke reunite, WHY?!!!  And then battle Kabuto...

6) Nagato and his "abilities"?

7) Everything became "Oh My Uchiha", also Tobirama's sudden statement about their condition

8) Kaguya...

9) Suddenly the Hyuga becomes relevant?

10) Keeping adding new characters like Kaguya, the Kin and Gin Brothers that survived in Kurama's stomach, the past Kages from other countries without build up

11) The Chakra Tree (Nobody couldn't thought of using fire and or chemicals?!!!)

12) Madara becoming too OP (That was definitely Masashi's fault)

13) Sakura doing something but became too little too late

14) Orochimaru's revival

15) Uzumaki masks... and why Sasuke's there?!

16) Kakashi's supposed development but somehow Obito's need to be involved

17) Fate of Rin (why she has to be a jinchuriki?!)

18) Naruto and Sasuke has hax powers, especially Naruto because he had tried become like Kurama (remember his attempt but became a chibi-version?) but then have Chakra cloak powers

19) Neji has to die (for Hinata-sama and her otaku fanbase!)

20) Tenten with the legendary weapons but got sidelined once again

21) Sakura looks like she will have a new rival within Karui from the cover art but then become unimportant

22) Remember the scene with Danzo and his bodyguards was suddenly ambushed by ninja wearing demon masks? That went nowhere too, for potential new threat...

23) All of the Zetsu clones with Yamato captured that wasn't mention until they were somehow used for the chakra tree and Obito's powers later on

24) Konoha Kages keep getting spotlight

25) Most of the stuff on the giant turtle, boring...

26) Everyone revived as Edo Tensei (exclude Jiraiya and Kushina)

27) What happened to the Bijus after the ending?

28) Might Guy having more screentime than other character...

29) Naruto Vs. Sasuke part 2 was very unhyped, hated that they lost an arm

30) The ending itself.

31) Genma and the crew were part of Minato's "secret service"-type team but why mentioning that now, the team could've at least help Naruto's childhood!

32) Sasuke's intro to blindness went nowhere because that condition will make him less OP against Naruto

33) The Eternal Sharingan BS

34) Nothing interesting, we didn't even get to know how or what Jashin (the god Hidan worship) look like (hell, he could be a better villain than Kaguya because he/it was mentioned back in the Hidan and Kakazu Arc)

35) Naruto and Kurama's friendship, definitely rushed.

 

I think that's it but I do have more, if I remember.


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#14 James S Cassidy

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:05 AM

31) Genma and the crew were part of Minato's "secret service"-type team but why mentioning that now, the team could've at least help Naruto's childhood!

I want to add to this one. Didn't Tsunade mention that they should save the technique to "teach to him." I don't know, maybe I am remmebering wrong, but I seem to think that this was a hint to teaching Naruto his father's technique, but again went nowhere or wasn't even bothered.


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#15 Derock

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:58 PM

I want to add to this one. Didn't Tsunade mention that they should save the technique to "teach to him." I don't know, maybe I am remmebering wrong, but I seem to think that this was a hint to teaching Naruto his father's technique, but again went nowhere or wasn't even bothered.

 

...sigh. Certain stuff that reveal at the last minute but completely ignored. (If it was mentioned, I remembered the team when it was announced, and I was like, "Huh?!") Where was this team during Naruto's harsh childhood? How come Hiruzen didn't mention, notice or have any knowledge of this said team? What's even odd that when Genma was introduced way back, he didn't have no ill towards Naruto. Most of his reactions were positives.


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#16 Phantom_999

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:39 AM

If you want an actual opinion from from from me, alright I'll  be fair.
 
The Kage summit arc IS where I noticed the decline in the story but not the entire thing it was only certain instances that I found the writing intolerable. Basically it  was all the Sasuke c%^k stroking. Naruto becoming a complete wussy punching bag for his "beloved" Sasuke's sake, Sakura not understanding how unhealthy her "so called" love for Sasuke is and couldn't kill him JUST BECAUSE ALL of her childish feelings for him bubbled up even though it is REALISTIC for her to understand he is a horrible person and moments like that wouldn't reasonably pop up in the "heat of the moment". How Sasuke should have been killed several times over by fighting the Kages only for Obito to Save him at the last moment. Then the OH SO infamous scene of Naruto stating he will die with Sasuke just because he thinks he doesn't deserve to be Hokage until he saves his "brother form another mother" when there is NO REALISTIC  build up for them to even call themselves friends.
 
the Jinchurilki confinement arc was where there was the great flash back of Kushina and the heart warming moments of how loved Naruto WOULD have been if his parents survived, but it was kind of off put by how he got his new powers and then it was tossed to the wayside to give Guy some screen time. Kisame got some good CD and back story (even though it did not make much sense to me because he had to be a tragic anti villain like the rest) just to be offed at the last minute.
 
 
The fourth Ninja world war was where everything went into a downward spiral. it was full of  a$$ pully plot conveniences and cotrived details that were thrown in last minute that did not make any sense, just because the story had to go out with a bang before the foreshadowed ultimate Naruto Versus Sasuke showdown was going to occur. I won't list them all because I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about. It is not without it's merits though. One Moment I fully enjoyed was how Gaara roused the entire army to unite by explaining how he felt about Naruto and how he wants to protect his friend, even though they started off as enemies. That was the part that got me thinking "wow Naruto is SO OBSESSED with Sasuke he doesn't even understand how he has an actual best friend right in front of him."   
 
Anyways If anyone really wants me to point out my problems with the war arc I will list it but not right now


Edited by Phantom_999, 16 November 2017 - 10:26 PM.

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#17 hinataiscreepy

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 06:43 AM

Naruto being acknowledged by the village at the end of the Pain arc should have been the ending because this is what started his story. The issue is that Sasuke and the Uchiha became the central focus of the story at the expense of its main character and supporting cast.

 

That's what Oda does well with Zoro is that he feels part of a bigger interconnected story instead of being the central point. Small insignificant details can lead to major logical reveals.



#18 Analyzer

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 01:50 PM

It couldn't be the ending, because there were clear foreshadowed issues still at play. The Uchiha had also already begun to be pushed to be more of an issue even before the Pain Arc (The Itachi Arc, for example). To make it the ending, you would have to push for a lot of things to get resolved faster, and cut out a lot about the other nations since they wouldn't be utilized. This ultimately makes the Pain Arc different. You also lack the visibility of Naruto achieving his final goal with this sort of ending, thus why it doesn't really work and wasn't ended there. 



#19 hinataiscreepy

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:25 PM

That's why I am saying the Uchiha should have never been pushed so much into the central plot to the point it became absurd...

 

 

 

 

 

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The Five nations plot was literally pointless, garbage, filler, and had nothing to do with Naruto's desire to be acknowledged by his village. Any competent writer would have cut that out and focused on rookies like Rock Lee.  Being acknowledged literally brings his story arc full circle and this is where you usually end your story on a high note so we don't have to witness this kind of scene...

 

 

 

 

 

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#20 Analyzer

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 03:26 PM

That's why I am saying the Uchiha should have never been pushed so much into the central plot to the point it became absurd...

 

 

 

 

 

danzo_s_sharingan_arm_by_xx_miky_uchirun

 

user222437_pic71490_1370609620_thumb.png

 

 

 

The Five nations plot was literally pointless, garbage, filler, and had nothing to do with Naruto's desire to be acknowledged by his village. Any competent writer would have cut that out and focused on rookies like Rock Lee.  Being acknowledged literally brings his story arc full circle and this is where you usually end your story on a high note so we don't have to witness this kind of scene...

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, the Uchiha did have relevance, being the background of the primary antagonist. The issue isn't their use, just that they're used too much. The Five Nations Arc is a stepping stone to 700, to the greater issue set forth by Jirayai early on, finding the answer to peace. That's what it has to do with, it's not filler or pointless, (Garbage is subjective). The Arc is quite necessary for the plot. 






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