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H&E's NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#1 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:44 PM

The debate forum needs a fresh start. Follow and LIVE by these rules so that EVERYONE can enjoy this debate forum peacefully happy.gif

The 'old' debate thread can be found in the NaruSaku Museum for any past references needed here ----> http://www.narusaku....hp?showforum=21

QUOTE
  • No bashing
    Character/pairing/fandom/member bashing is NOT allowed, period. Any and all members engaging in bashing will be dealt with by the forum's moderators. Examples of bashing are:

    "Haha, (pairing name) sucks."
    "(fandom name) fans don't know what they're talking about."
    "(character name) is useless/stupid/a b*tch."
    "(member name) is a dumb*ss to really believe that, because it's not what *I* believe in."

    You get the gist. If you want to disagree with an argument/theory/opinion, you can do it without bashing (see below).
  • Objection!
    If you disagree with an argument/theory/opinion, please show your logical reasoning why, and show evidence wherever possible.

    Good: "I feel this theory doesn't stand up because... (quote manga evidence)"
    Bad: "They don't know what they're talking about, lol."
  • Quote carefully!
    If you only want to agree with a post, please don't quote it! It's OK to just use their name, like so:

    @AwesomeDebater
    I agree!

    It's OK to quote posts if you want to highlight/debate certain points, but please try to avoid quoting posts in their entireity. smile.gif
  • Acceptable Evidence
    Only manga chapters, official databook entries, and Masashi Kishimoto interviews may be accepted as evidence. The Naruto anime and movies cannot be accepted as evidence, because they often devitate from canon. If possible, link to the evidence (such as manga pages on OneManga) so everyone can see what you're talking about. happy.gif
  • Poke at it!
    Even if it's a theory/argument that supports the pairing you like, don't be afraid to poke a stick at it! If it feels flimsy to you, point it out and give your reasoning why.
  • No spam
    This thread is for debating ONLY. Any off-topic/spam posts that don't contribute to debates will be deleted.


#2 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:54 PM

R.I.P. the New Debate thread.

"The time has come at last for you to learn everything . . .

Fare thee well, Albert, my friend."

 

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#3 Rocket

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:23 PM

Short-lived topic revival.

QUOTE
So most of you who just read 581 would have seen the new Weekly Jump cover. It's really pretty I have to say, but I'm bringing this up because I noticed that Sakura's looking at Naruto in a certain way. I don't know how to describe it, but could this be a bit of an NS hint or something? Or is this just purely a New Team 7 moment, considering Kakashi and Sai are there as well, not just Naruto and Sakura.

Here's the image for those who haven't had a chance to see it or read the latest chapter:


Discuss away my lovelies.

...well. Bite away.

Edited by Rocket, 07 April 2012 - 03:23 PM.

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#4 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:27 PM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Apr 7 2012, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
R.I.P. the New Debate thread.

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#5 Anguyen92

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:29 PM

Again, like the last cover, its not meant to be a NS hint, though its always nice to see Naruto and Sakura on the cover, and we get the added benefit of Kakashi and Sai. And its covers, like these, that makes me wish that Kishi would explore some of these dynamics much further than it is now.

Edited by Anguyen92, 07 April 2012 - 03:32 PM.

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#6 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE (Anguyen92 @ Apr 7 2012, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again, like the last cover, its not meant to be a NS hint, though its always nice to see Naruto and Sakura on the cover, and we get the added benefit of Kakashi and Sai. And its covers, like these, that makes me wish that Kishi would exploit some of these dynamics much further than it is now.

Why isn't Yamato in the cover though? Sai is just as new as him, and they are both in team 7 (not like Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, Kakashi, but they are still there), so if targeting the group, and trying to leave only Sasuke out sense he is not friendly yet, then what kept them from adding Yamato? Is it because Yamato is still yet to be found? Or maybe forgotten.

Other than that, I love the rest of it. Great picture of the team 7 there. Naruto laughing while Sakura finds another reason to turn tsundere on Naruto (which we all love), and Sai and Kakashi just enjoying the memories being created. happy.gif

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 07 April 2012 - 03:34 PM.

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#7 Rocket

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Anguyen92 @ Apr 8 2012, 01:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again, like the last cover, its not meant to be a NS hint, though its always nice to see Naruto and Sakura on the cover, and we get the added benefit of Kakashi and Sai. And its covers, like these, that makes me wish that Kishi would explore some of these dynamics much further than it is now.

Well from a straightforward point of view, yes, there isn't really a hint between them, and it's just a regular Team 7 cover. But when I look at Sakura closely, she's giving Naruto this certain look. You know, like at the beginning of Part II where she comments about how grown-up and mature he's become. That's the kind of look she's giving him.

That's just me though. Really, it's left up to one's interpretation of how they see it. Most people see it as just Team 7 there, but again, it's how they view it.

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#8 Anguyen92

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

QUOTE (Rocket @ Apr 7 2012, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well from a straightforward point of view, yes, there isn't really a hint between them, and it's just a regular Team 7 cover. But when I look at Sakura closely, she's giving Naruto this certain look. You know, like at the beginning of Part II where she comments about how grown-up and mature he's become. That's the kind of look she's giving him.

That's just me though. Really, it's left up to one's interpretation of how they see it. Most people see it as just Team 7 there, but again, it's how they view it.


All right, that's fair, I always see these kind of things as straightforward, since that's what I think that's they, the people who created the cover, wants me to think. I don't know if they are trying to send another message or not, and they might have done that here. I guess the only way to really confirm the suspicions and speculations is by the drawers themselves, whether or not, Sakura gave Naruto a look that looks more than platonic.

Edited by Anguyen92, 07 April 2012 - 04:04 PM.

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#9 Don-kun

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:45 PM

This in not MY post


QUOTE (o @ Apr 6 2012, 01:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I need to rant about these sorry excuse of a romantic pairing. Wait when did romance even exist in thise pairing to begin with?

I never saw anything like romance with NS to begin with. It was way too one sided where Naruto showed feelings and Sakura, well, probably shouldn't say it. Let's just say you hardly call even friendly sometimes. Somehow this gets translated into Sakura is obviously in love with Naruto she just doesn't know it yet. I never really understood that argument, "she just doesn't know it yet". I'm no romantic but how could you not know if you have feelings for that person or not. Maybe due to certain events you could start having feelings for that person, but I don't think anyone is going to be that arrogant where they don't know if they are in love with someone or not. It seems that NS likes to use "She is just confused with her feelings." This I have heard before but I absolutely hate it. Though I have seen canon pairings use this kind of logic before. To me, I think this argument is saying that the person is so full that they have been chasing the wrong person this whole time and just realize how silly they were to chase after that guy when they should be chasing after this guy. Pretty much it feels like the argument is saying to switch targets. The logic and methods when being with that other person is the same, just with a different target. I feel that argument is saying that Sakura should just switch her targets towards Naruto instead of Sasuke. Switching roles where Sakura treats Sasuke poorly who can't do anything and start worshiping everything that Naruto does. With this argument I don't see anything changing except for the roles.

With the events of the failfession, NS sure has fallen and about any past arguments that were made were destroyed at that event. I really did feel that Kishimoto was making sure it was as good as dead but not even he could destroy it. I'm not sure how some of the arguments like, the POAL, and Doing for Sakura's sake came to be. I probably would have never even thought those were even considered arguments if I didn't end up reading into it. I thought when Naruto made that promise, it was to ensure that he will bring back Sasuke, his first friend, not so he could use that promise in order to get closer to Sakura. Not even sure how that was even put into logic. NS tried to use that he was doing this for Sakura's sake. Rather it was bringing back Sasuke or it was fighting a villain. He is always doing things just to impress her. I was surprised that was even being used and that really makes Naruto look very shallow and it also makes it look like Sakura needs to have people with high standards of a god. If Naruto was doing all of that crazy things just to impress a girl then I doubt this series would have last over 12 years. If Sakura's standards is really that high then there is no such person alive for her and she will forever be alone. It's sad how NS belittle the characters it ships. With arguments like that, I feel that NS creates its own Anti-NS arguments.

I honestly don't know when SS was even thought possible. First we look at Sasuke's side. Here he shows little to know feelings for Sakura, let alone for anyone else and somehow he is going to fall in love with Sakura and for what reasons? I guess arguments want to believe that Sasuke will do a Vegeta and start to settle down with the main female character(Bulma). Next we look at Sakura's side. Here she shows him praise and acknowledgement but Sasuke shows little no care for it. Yet she still does it and obsesses over him. Arguments will say that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke has matured but I don't know if that is really true. I felt that SS makes it look that Sasuke can do no wrong and that he can't possibly do anything wrongdoing no matter what. In some cases, SS is called an abusive relationship because Sasuke has hit her before and gets the name "wife beater." Well I don't know if Sasuke is "that" abusive with Sakura but I will probably won't deny that SS is pretty abusive. It's hard to believe that this is considered one of the most possible pairing considering the amount of violence that seems to be at the same level as the people at the Talk Shows. It's just not possible for me to believe a pairing with this much abuse can even be considered even a possible crack pairing.


I have to wonder what does SS have in the first place? Sakura hugs him, and cries whenever something Sasuke-related is happening. It seems that SS wants to bet on the events of Love Letter Guy. Because the ones she "still" loves is Sasuke. Because Sakura still loves him after all the bad things that he has done shows that she cares about him more than ever. Funny that it wasn't that long when she was trying to kill him because she just couldn't bare to see Sasuke as he is now. So how in the world did that happen? I guess Sakura is once again betting that Naruto will bring back Sasuke back so she can be with him. Somehow I don't see that as being a healthy pairing. I just don't see that as a good reason for Sakura to be with Sasuke. Arguments like "She Smiles In Front of Sasuke" and "Her Feelings Matured" don't seem logical to me. The "She Smile In Front of Sasuke" is a good point that she likes him but that just proves one side. Does Sasuke smile in front of Sakura? I sure haven't seen it at least. I feel that this has to work both ways in order for it to work. I feel I could give a LAP about the "Her Feelings Matured" argument. I don't know if her feelings has matured. Just like with Hinata, I doubt that Sakura knows anything else about Sasuke or at least understand him a little bit. I do wonder does Sakura even know anything else about Sasuke?

My feelings for NH is neutral right now but lately it's been getting very annoying for my case. It seems that NH is really betting that Naruto, the nice guy, won't go and hurt the poor, sweet, and innocent Hinata's feelings. I look at Naruto's side and he doesn't seem to see her as someone he is willing to date. Naruto shows that he cares for her as a friend and doesn't want her to die, but other than that he shows little to no reaction with her. Some arguments might say that Naruto is such a full to not see how much a cute girl like Hinata likes him but I do wonder what if that isn't the type of girl Naruto is looking for. Somehow the "One Way" Argument is being used her again. It's as clear as day that Hinata likes Naruto. Due to recent events, Hinata wants to go and hold his hand and be by his side. I normally wouldn't care about this kind of selfishness, but I'm not sure if that really is okay. Shouldn't Hinata, I don't know, get to know him first before making those kind of declaration, or better yet, try to be a better friend so you can understand how he feels. It seems that NH got a kick out of that but no matter how I look at it, NH just isn't possible and I seriously doubt that this pairing would even last long even if they did get together. They would all be doing their own things and nothing about them would change.

Ever since the event with Pain, NH has been getting a bit annoying to me. NH probably is the least possible pairings of the Big 3 because for some reason, I'm supposed to believe that Naruto is supposed to all of a sudden realize that he is in love with Hinata. I just don't see Naruto doing that. It seems because Hinata "confessed" her feelings and still hold strong for them, that means that NH is going to happen. For the longest of time, it seems that event has been in question. Hinata confessed but Naruto has never talked to her about it. Does he care, does he not care, will he ever tell us how he really feels about Hinata? In truth, I think Kishimoto is leaving it out just so he can keep us guessing for entertainment purposes. Looking past that, I see NH too one sided. The girl likes the guy so the guy should like the girl back. I cannot agree with that logic. If Naruto showed any signs of liking Hinata back then I could understand this pairing being possible. Everything is on Hinata's side and never on Naruto's side. Does Naruto have a say in it? Most likely he doesn't. He has to be the mature guy and date the girl that has feelings for him first. I do feel that if Kishimoto ever decides to target NH again, it will only get trolled. NS believed that pairing was going to happen only to be trolled by the failfession. I doubt highly we will see Naruto showing feelings for Hinata even after all this time.


This is a Anti big 3 commente that really got my attention, what to you guys think about the bolded statement for NS, this person is a big Sakura hater and Anti NS but know he is an anti big three and he rant about the 3 pairing...

what's your opinion on this.

#10 Anguyen92

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE (donjoseph19 @ Apr 7 2012, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a Anti big 3 commente that really got my attention, what to you guys think about the bolded statement for NS, this person is a big Sakura hater and Anti NS but know he is an anti big three and he rant about the 3 pairing...

what's your opinion on this.


I don't think there is much to speak on this, just let the person hate, and that's it. If that guy ever comes here to tries to spew the hatred, then he's going to get stopped dead in his tracks. Quite frankly, I rather prefer if you don't post those kinds of quotes, knowing that we need to make a fresh start in this thread, and we need to start off in that light-hearted fun-like direction. I mean Rocket's post, about the recent Team 7 cover, was a good starter.

Edited by Anguyen92, 07 April 2012 - 04:52 PM.

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#11 Fyuria'sLeo

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:56 PM

Its just a guy who doesnt see pairings in the end, and to be honest id be fine with no pairing in the end.

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#12 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE (Fyuria'sLeo @ Apr 7 2012, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its just a guy who doesnt see pairings in the end, and to be honest id be fine with no pairing in the end.

Or you could be fine with NS/SH. happy.gif

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#13 Greed-Sama

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:03 PM

QUOTE (Anguyen92 @ Apr 7 2012, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite frankly, I rather prefer if you don't post those kinds of quotes, knowing that we need to make a fresh start in this thread, and we need to start off in that light-hearted fun-like direction.


Eh? Debate is for debate. The guy said nothing in his quote that was bashing correlated or anything overly negative. The guy is Anti Big 3, which in all reality is about the only other position I'd be willing to take instead of NS.

QUOTE
Or you could be fine with NS/SH


Never. SasuHina is just unfair for Hinata. Sasuke has a date with a metallic object called a kunai. That's about the only saving grace I really want to allow him.

Edited by Greed-Sama, 07 April 2012 - 05:04 PM.

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#14 Darth Krypt

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:04 PM

That guys not hating exactly. What he said does make sense in a way. Its because the way Kishi write the romance is so ambiguous that no pairing in the end is even a high possibility unless he adds more development from here on now. If you compare with some other mangas, you know that those pairings are much more obvious than NS.

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#15 Anguyen92

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:06 PM

QUOTE (Greed-Sama @ Apr 7 2012, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Eh? Debate is for debate. The guy said nothing in his quote that was bashing correlated or anything overly negative. The guy is Anti Big 3, which in all reality is about the only other position I'd be willing to take instead of NS.


Well, after looking at the quote itself and not just the part where the person is described as a Sakura hater and anti-NS, I retract my previous statement, and quite frankly, I too rather prefer no pairings as well if this pairings war ends which has long been overbearing.

Edited by Anguyen92, 07 April 2012 - 05:07 PM.

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#16 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:09 PM

QUOTE (Greed-Sama @ Apr 7 2012, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Never. SasuHina is just unfair for Hinata. Sasuke has a date with a metallic object called a kunai. That's about the only saving grace I really want to allow him.

Sasuke will be redeemed in the end and fall in love with Hinata. Hinata will be all like "hi", and it will happen. Problem? biggrin.gif

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 07 April 2012 - 05:09 PM.

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#17 Heaven on Earth

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:19 PM

@zacrathedemon5
Yeah, RIP the 'old' debate thread. I'm gonna miss it so much shamefulcry0js.gif i usually took some quote (nice opinion) about narusaku from all member here for my narusaku fanbase on twitter and most of people like it

QUOTE
It was way too one sided where Naruto showed feelings and Sakura, well, probably shouldn't say it.


as long as i remember, sakura >> naruto : there's some feedback, some interaction that implying her feelings to naruto (more than platonic friendship)
It's naruto - hinata and sasuke - sakura that always be onesided love. Naruto always seeing Hinata as a friend. Nice friend. And Sasuke never saw Sakura in romantic way. His 'love' is revenge. His character purpose isn't for romance.

Err, i thought, most of the time, sasuke always thinks about naruto, not sakura.

btw, sorry for my bad english sweatdrop.gif

#18 The Tax-Man

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:27 PM

QUOTE (FoolishYoungling @ Apr 7 2012, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sasuke will be redeemed in the end and fall in love with Hinata. Hinata will be all like "hi", and it will happen. Problem? biggrin.gif


I refuse to believe that's a genuine argument. ಠ_ಠ

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That's how PRO THE MAN is, boiz.


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2. "This is an interesting, but perverse, point of view..."
3. "True, but quite unimportant."
4. "I ALWAYS SAID SO!"


#19 redragon88

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:43 PM

I posted this in another thread but I'll put it here as well because I want your opinion on this:

Do any of you think that the reason Sakura is still shown thinking about Sasuke is because Kishimoto doesn't want people calling NaruSaku canon yet? Maybe he wants to purposely have people doubt it will happen because when he makes it canon he wants people to have a reaction like "OH WHAT A PLOT TWIST, AWESOME!"

So even if it all points to Naruto getting together with Sakura, this way Kishimoto can add more impact to when it happens.

#20 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:47 PM

QUOTE (The Tax-Man @ Apr 7 2012, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I refuse to believe that's a genuine argument. ಠ_ಠ

If Sasuke is going to find love in his life, then he has to choose a girl. In my opinion, Sakura is not going to be a choice, and I'm sure Ino won't either, so who's left? Karin is too much a fan girl, and that only leaves Hinata... SasuHina or Sasuke forever alone.. deal with it. happy.gif

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Apr 7 2012, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I posted this in another thread but I'll put it here as well because I want your opinion on this:

Do any of you think that the reason Sakura is still shown thinking about Sasuke is because Kishimoto doesn't want people calling NaruSaku canon yet? Maybe he wants to purposely have people doubt it will happen because when he makes it canon he wants people to have a reaction like "OH WHAT A PLOT TWIST, AWESOME!"

So even if it all points to Naruto getting together with Sakura, this way Kishimoto can add more impact to when it happens.

Very high possibility. <----- cocky me

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 07 April 2012 - 05:49 PM.

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