18 replies to this topic

[StrikerTheNoble]

*AU* Sorry this is all mixed up. Try to keep up, it kinda makes sense. Hope I`m not bashing *AU*

 

 

So I`ve been thinking. What the hell Hyugas?

 

Are they really neccesary at all? I mean Kishi decided to write in an elite and omnipotent clan of dojutsu users that are so traditional they basicly make slaves out of their own clan members.

 

So I`ve been thinking why this was neccesary. And the best reason I could come up with is the big Neji fight in part 1. The last volume or so before the Neji fight the Hyugas were so overhyped that it was almost silly. And the whole branch family thing, what`s up with that? How do you protect the "main branch" by having a side branch and enslaving them. Wouldn`t it be a lot easier if they just trained a Hyuuga elite guard or something?

 

Then the Neji fight happens and the Hyuugas vanish. They were not touched apon for nearly 600 chapters. And honestly I just want to know where on earth these elite badass mofos of Konoha were during the pain invasion. The alkimichi were fighting, Inoichi and Ino were working their asses of at the intel devision and all the "lesser" clans of Konoha did something. So where were they. The two Hyuugas that did get shown on panel were either chilling and providing Sakura with up to date news on the fight or basicly commiting suicide. It`s bonkers. And for that matter why hasn`t there been a Hyuuga hokage?

 

In my opinion there would be absolutely no harm or influence on the story if the Hyuugas were just a run-of-the-mill clan. Instead of some "elitists" Between us I think the Uchihas and Senju were the true top dogs and when they got terminated or vanished the Hyuugas just kind of started to spread the rumor of their unstopable awesomness.

 

Next up is Hinata.

 

Is her love for Naruto really neccesary? If you were to nutshell her character she is the Heiress of the Konoha elitists who has a crush on Naruto is shy and has no relevant connection to his life. I would understand if Naruto actually did something about her crush, but he doesn`t. She`s just kind of there. Not there for him, just there. 

 

Foolish and I once debatet that if Ino would have been the one with the crush on Naruto than the whole romance complex would be more connected with the SasuNaru rivarly being paraled to the SakuIno it would all make for a more connected love square. If we look at it graphicly we have the SNS love triangle and Hinata is kinda pushing and yelling let me in. Because she has no connection with Sakura, or Sasuke and the one-sided link to Naruto hardly counts so why?

 

So my question is... Why are the Hyuugas so overhyped and overcomplex?

[sushi.]

I'm about to go to bed so I'll keep it short for now. I even skimmed the post..sorry. XD

 

The Hyuuga conflict represents a theme in Naruto. Discrimination and that united we are best. : P It may not have a connection to the main plot, but it's a sub-plot. Sub-plots are necessary. It for instance leads up to what challenges Naruto will have to deal with once he's Hokage. He's vowed to change the Hyuuga clan. Of course the conflict dropped dead in Shippuden, but that's due to Kishi's writing skills..or lack of writing skills.

 

Hinata represents what Naruto does to people. Her purpose is to serve as an example to those who were deeply touched by Naruto. He changed them all, and they now all want to walk with him. Hinata is just affected a little too much..or rather she can't let go.

 

Hinata's love is also a plot device. Just look at her confession and how it ultimately led to Naruto meeting Minato, what a coincidence...

 

I find Hinata interesting and boring at the same time. There is no Naruto female like her at all. She's exceptional. I see her a lot in different animes though, especially in shoujo and old series.

[Phantom_999]

Do they have significance to the plot? No. But their clan history has some significant symbolism to the point of the story. Hinata is driven to better herself. I think that her single inspiration coming from Naruto only is a bit one dimensional and not interesting (for the millionth time)  , but the point is she is striving to become a stronger person. That's important, as Naruto went through the same thing. As for the clan itself,  when you think about it their history and traditions have caused many a branch member more grief than can ever be fixed by a social worker if there are any (to put it mildly). Kind of like how the Shinobi system created strife and suffering for countless people like Nagato. And in order to overcome this they will have to abolish tradition and move forward to a new solution to not cause sacrifices and tear families apart. You can think of it as the Narutoverse's current crisis on a smaller scale. 

Edited by Phantom_999, 01 September 2013 - 02:20 AM.

[morgaine4]

I don't think that the Hyuugas are necessary, not anymore because even though Kishimoto had an easy story to write for the clan, a story that writes itself he refused to do so for whatever reason (I think primarily so that he wouldn't have to develop Hinata that far beyond being a Naruto devotee).  I do think Hinata is necessary, she's Naruto's first devotee, the first person who saw what makes him special.  When characterizing Naruto as a spiritual Messianic figure, I think that makes Hinata important.

[Inferno180]

The Hyuga story is minor, only the issues between the main and side branch help put in another element of human distrust and conflict and trying to resolve that with peace and understanding. Sadly I felt Neji would have been the better one to give that story considering he had the past development to harbor a previous hate for the main branch but also the development to respect and with his talent getting the rotation (usually a main only ability) he could have done something for the better if he lived. Hinata's love is a side plot thing though, rather its her trying to improve that takes importance if anything for her role.

Edited by Inferno180, 01 September 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[mmrc27]

The Hyuga story is minor, only the issues between the main and side branch help put in another element of human distrust and conflict and trying to resolve that with peace and understanding. Sadly I felt Neji would have been the better one to give that story considering he had the past development to harbor a previous hate for the main branch but also the development to respect and with his talent getting the rotation (usually a main only ability) he could have done something for the better if he lived. Hinata's love is a side plot thing though, rather its her trying to improve that takes importance if anything for her role.

I agree with the Hyuga story, Neji is somehow like Sasuke who has so much hatred but the difference is Neji picked the bright side because of Naruto. Hinata's love may not be that important, maybe it was there so show some love conflicts for NS or to have a "love triangle" or something...

[Nate River]

Kishimoto's style has generally been to create characters for specific purposes, either to move the plot or make some specific point. When the character has completed that particular role they generally fall back to the background or in some cases disappear entirely. There are some exceptions to this, like Shikamaru or Tsunade, but in large part many of the characters that stick around mostly make token or filler like appearance. They do stuff, but they don't themselves significantly advance the plot or contribute much to other's character development.

I thought the primary purpose of the Hyuuga side plot was to deal with the concept of Destiny and Fate. Neji was sacrificed had to die because destiny had resulted in him being born second. Neji was a second class member of the clan for the same reason, and "destiny" had determined Hinata to be weak and Naruto to be an inferior ninja and no amount of work and trying would change that. Naruto proved him wrong, but that, I think was the ultimate goal of the entire set up. I the conflict within the Hyuuga was to help set all this up. I thought Hiashi's talk with Neji was the resolution. It's simplistic, but their ultimate fate just doesn't matter that much within the context of the story as a whole.

It is itself and interesting story, but it's role within this story was toward that specific development for Naruto. Once accomplished, it wasn't needed because the story has never been about them.

So, to the answer the question...they are not a necessary component to this story the same way, say, Sasuke is. That point could have been accomplished without them and Hinata could be removed from the story without significant change. Hinata's development has always been along the same path that could logically have been terminated at numerous points without issue. I don't know if he keeps her around because he wants to walk through all parts of that development or as a foil to the love triangle.

I think we'll get an ending where Hinata is ultimately the head. It could have just been stated at the end or we could watch some of the development (like we are). As far as story construction goes, I don't think it matters. If your a Hinata fan, I'm sure it does, but the story would be fine either way.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Kishimoto's style has generally been to create characters for specific purposes, either to move the plot or make some specific point. When the character has completed that particular role they generally fall back to the background or in some cases disappear entirely. There are some exceptions to this, like Shikamaru or Tsunade, but in large part many of the characters that stick around mostly make token or filler like appearance. They do stuff, but they don't themselves significantly advance the plot or contribute much to other's character development.

I thought the primary purpose of the Hyuuga side plot was to deal with the concept of Destiny and Fate. Neji was sacrificed had to die because destiny had resulted in him being born second. Neji was a second class member of the clan for the same reason, and "destiny" had determined Hinata to be weak and Naruto to be an inferior ninja and no amount of work and trying would change that. Naruto proved him wrong, but that, I think was the ultimate goal of the entire set up. I the conflict within the Hyuuga was to help set all this up. I thought Hiashi's talk with Neji was the resolution. It's simplistic, but their ultimate fate just doesn't matter that much within the context of the story as a whole.

It is itself and interesting story, but it's role within this story was toward that specific development for Naruto. Once accomplished, it wasn't needed because the story has never been about them.

So, to the answer the question...they are not a necessary component to this story the same way, say, Sasuke is. That point could have been accomplished without them and Hinata could be removed from the story without significant change. Hinata's development has always been along the same path that could logically have been terminated at numerous points without issue. I don't know if he keeps her around because he wants to walk through all parts of that development or as a foil to the love triangle.

I think we'll get an ending where Hinata is ultimately the head. It could have just been stated at the end or we could watch some of the development (like we are). As far as story construction goes, I don't think it matters. If your a Hinata fan, I'm sure it does, but the story would be fine either way.

You face when the whole destiny was throw on the trash on the moment Naruto was revealed to be the child of the prophesy, this whole theme, was destroyed by Kishimoto himself when he decided to make Naruto to be some kind of destined child or whatever and giving him special heritage, Jiraiya books and his goals being connected to his predecessors.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 September 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[Dkey]

You face when the whole destiny was throw on the trash on the moment Naruto was revealed to be the child of the prophesy, this whole theme, was destroyed by Kishimoto himself when he decided to make Naruto to be some kind of destined child or whatever and giving him special heritage, Jiraiya books and his goals being connected to his predecessors.

but he was a special kid from the start. kishi just enforced it. If anything he wasnt a genius so he had to work hard to be equal to them. if anything Naruto struggled with acknowlegdment not neccesarily a loser who found a way. in the first part especially because of kuramas interventions did he manage to win his hard fights.

[Jenskott]

And honestly I just want to know where on earth these elite badass mofos of Konoha were during the pain invasion. The alkimichi were fighting, Inoichi and Ino were working their asses of at the intel devision and all the "lesser" clans of Konoha did something. So where were they. The two Hyuugas that did get shown on panel were either chilling and providing Sakura with up to date news on the fight or basicly commiting suicide.

 

 

If you reread that story, you will see that during the invasion, at least one Hyuga was shown collaborating with his partners to fight the enemy. And right after Pain detonated the village, Ko was shown taking care of Hinata, who was telling they had to seek and help injured people. And when Naruto arrived, he specifically asked nobody interfered, so everybody -not only Hyuugas- stepped back. In fact, the only person who interfered was a Hyuuga.

 

So I am sorry, but I do not see how they were "chilling". They were fighting and helping right like everyone.

 

Anyway, the Hyuuga clan was created to flesh the backstory of two secondary characters and ramp up the tension and drama of the Naruto vs Neji fight. Once that battle did happen, the Hyuuga story fulfilled its purpose and that subplot was dropped.

 

So are they necessary? To the backstory of several characters, they are. To the world-building of Narutoverse, they are, since they provide additional information about the Konohagakure's clans and their traditions. To the main, ongoing subplot, they are not.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

but he was a special kid from the start. kishi just enforced it. If anything he wasnt a genius so he had to work hard to be equal to them. if anything Naruto struggled with acknowlegdment not neccesarily a loser who found a way. in the first part especially because of kuramas interventions did he manage to win his hard fights.

And later, due to his heritage, he could went far with his training, if there's someome who managed to be strong on the story thoughout hard work is Sakura who has no heritage or senju descendence and managed to be stronger than Tsunade surpassing people who has an strong heritage like, Ino and Hinata kunoichis who came from special clans.

 

On other hnd Kishi made sure that he could went further with his training because of his uzumaki heritage, which allowed his to make that huge ammount of shadow clones, win his fight against Neji and won his fight against Kiba because of that heritage because he was already messed up with the seal Orochimaru used on him and because of his enhanced stamina he could endure and win his fight against Kiba, then more things came and then we saw Jiraiyas book describing exactly Naruto's life, the prophesy and how the fourth hokage made sure that he would learn the rasengan and control the kyuubi.

 

Naruto's life was planned since the start which make invalide the motto, loser surpassing the genius, the only character who embraces this idea is Sakura.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 02 September 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[Sojobo]

The Hyuuga story could have been interesting, but... it only resume as "Naruto-kun"

In my point of view, it's a "no", Hyuuga and Hinata weren't necessary for the main plot.

[sushi.]

The Hyuuga story could have been interesting, but... it only resume as "Naruto-kun"

In my point of view, it's a "no", Hyuuga and Hinata weren't necessary for the main plot.

lol

 

If I might add, is any of the K11 sub-plots needed for the main plot? I know a few others Kishi dumped as well, Lee and Neji for instance. The only well done continuation was Ino-Shika-Cho in my opinion.

[Canadian_DJ]

Well the hyugas didnt have a big impact but they are part of the story. Neji is the star of the hyuga clan for the plot. I like neji and narutos bond.

Hinata? Well shes her own character, even though she hasnt had much of an impact to the story as much as ino or neji and shikamaru or choji and lee. Hinatas character is she was supposed to become the head of the clan but since her sister is a better match hanabis thr one for the job. Hinatas character is just about improving which has already come to a full circle.

The hyugas arent over hyped they're pretty normal if you ask me.

[No WhereMan]

I do think Hinata is necessary, she's Naruto's first devotee, the first person who saw what makes him special.  When characterizing Naruto as a spiritual Messianic figure, I think that makes Hinata important.

Also I take issue with that. I'd say Iruka was the first person that saw what made Naruto special. Because he's the only one that actually interacted with Naruto and acknowledged him. Yeah, Hinata did care for him from a far, but her feelings weren't known till the pain invasion. Not to mention, Naruto's life basically changes when Irkua first acknowledges him. Hinata loving him from a distance doesn't help Naruto in any way shape or form, because it has no impact on him. She might as well have had no feelings for him, because you get the same results.

 

 

If you reread that story, you will see that during the invasion, at least one Hyuga was shown collaborating with his partners to fight the enemy. And right after Pain detonated the village, Ko was shown taking care of Hinata, who was telling they had to seek and help injured people. And when Naruto arrived, he specifically asked nobody interfered, so everybody -not only Hyuugas- stepped back. In fact, the only person who interfered was a Hyuuga.

 

So I am sorry, but I do not see how they were "chilling". They were fighting and helping right like everyone.

Actually I think the OP has a good point. In the pain invasion which was in the heart of Konoha, you didn't see a wave of these elite ninjas coming out of the wood work coming to the village's aid. I mean if thery're a whole clan, meaning several family, of these elite ninjas you would think they would come sweeping through to defend their home. But we just see one or two here and there. That's it.

Edited by No WhereMan, 02 September 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[morgaine4]

Also I take issue with that. I'd say Iruka was the first person that saw what made Naruto special. Because he's the only one that actually interacted with Naruto and acknowledged him. Yeah, Hinata did care for him from a far, but her feelings weren't known till the pain invasion. Not to mention, Naruto's life basically changes when Irkua first acknowledges him. Hinata loving him from a distance doesn't help Naruto in any way shape or form, because it has no impact on him. She might as well have had no feelings for him, because you get the same results.

 

I agree with you, I may have been unclear in my post in terms of what I mean by "first devotee."  I think there's a fundemental difference between Hinata and Iruka and also Team 7 (there are a few other characters who are in a similar categorty as Iruka, Kakshi, Sakura, and even Sasuke, but I'm going to limit my discussion to the characters who Naruto credits with saving him from lonliness).  While Iruka and Team 7 (aside from Sasuke for now, but it's only a matter of time) do see Naruto's "special, Messianic" powers, I wouldn't characterize them as devotees of Naruto; they're his friends, his first family, they give to him as much as he gives to them (or at least Naruto sees it in this way).  Because of the nature of their relationship with Naruto, even if they're not as powerful as him physically, eventhough they're unable to think as a Messiah, they are his equals, they are not submissive to him and I think it's the submissive nature that characterizes a devotee vs a friend.  That's not to say that Naruto and Hinata aren't (distant) friends, that Naruto doesn't see Hinata as a friend, he does but the way in which Hinata worships Naruto makes her a devotee, a religious follower of the tenants of the belief system Naruto will found.  But as a sort of religious devotee of Naruto's, Hinata can't be his equal, Hinata can't offer Naruto as much as he offers her.  She didn't help him until 615 (or 616, I always forget when she made her speech), and even then her role was to explain what people see in Naruto, why he's able to reach people on a nearly religious level --and really, as Naruto's first religious follower (the one with the most experience worshiping his tennants/nindo) she was the best suited to deliver that speech.  She's definitely not the first person to help Naruto in any way, in fact I think the exact opposite, she saw how badly Naruto was bullied but was a bystander who did nothing but I do think she's the first person who can be considered his devotee.

 

I guess an easy way to state it is, Iruka, Kakshi, Sakura, Tsunade etc etc are insiders who would be exposed to all sides of Naruto and thus aren't just his devotees even if they do see and even worship the thing that makes him special (they see the human, before they see the spiritual leader), while someone like Hinata is somewhat of an outsider who mainly sees what makes Naruto special with only some glimpses of Naruto the human individual (she sees the spiritual leader first, the human second).  It's why it always seemed to me that Hinata's love for Naruto is spiritual in nature, but that she feels that it's romantic in nature.  It's almost as if Kishimoto has written Hinata's feelings as a sort of "spiritual crush," which I guess is a foreign concept to us Westerners, but it's not so uncommon in some Eastern cultures/religions (though I don't know enough of Japanese culture to say that it's common in their culture).

Edited by morgaine4, 02 September 2013 - 10:07 PM.

[No WhereMan]

Yeah but going back to the OP statement. HInata, even being a Naruto devotee, doesn't really impact the story. I mean you could have put any person in that spot, to give that speech and it would have basically the same impact. There is nothing really significant about Hinata, the character herself, that moves the story. Being the first disciple of the church of Naurto, has the same significance as being the hundred and first one.

[morgaine4]

Yeah but going back to the OP statement. HInata, even being a Naruto devotee, doesn't really impact the story. I mean you could have put any person in that spot, to give that speech and it would have basically the same impact. There is nothing really significant about Hinata, the character herself, that moves the story. Being the first disciple of the church of Naurto, has the same significance as being the hundred and first one.

 

Yeah, I agree, but I think it makes sense that the author would want to write about his first devotee whoever that person is to show how uber special the child of prophecy is.

Edited by morgaine4, 02 September 2013 - 11:21 PM.

[Jenskott]

Actually I think the OP has a good point. In the pain invasion which was in the heart of Konoha, you didn't see a wave of these elite ninjas coming out of the wood work coming to the village's aid. I mean if thery're a whole clan, meaning several family, of these elite ninjas you would think they would come sweeping through to defend their home. But we just see one or two here and there. That's it.

 

 No. We see few people from each clan. IIRRC, we see more Hyuuga clansmen (four) than Akamichi (2 or maybe 3) or Inuzuka (Kiba and his mother) and just so many like Aburame (four), for example. Kishimoto was just giving a little of pannel time to each clan, so I don't see how that is a reason to bash the Hyuugas.

 

I see constant complains of the Uhicha being overexposed (whether Ithey are justified or not is not the issue, here). Therefore, I think people would rather seeing a little scene featuring every clan instead of many featuring a single clan. Would not that make the Hyuuga clan overexposed, also?