54 replies to this topic

[AzureWaters]

This topic isn't to discuss 615 or NaruHina, but there will be a mention of it in my question. I hope that is OK.


There's been some discussion over what NaruSaku would need in the current story-line to usurp the latest developments and have its place back in the obvious category. In other words, the pairing would be noticeably endgame to most readers, even to non NaruSaku fans.

As it stands what action is needed from either Naruto or Sakura to make most see NaruSaku as obvious, and do you think the specific scenario is likely or possible at this point? How do you see it playing out?

I know there's some users who believe that Kishimoto won't take this route, and I am saying now that you can express your opinion as well. Please everyone do not gang up or bash these users' opinions, and it goes both ways of course. If you feel a certain way you are welcome to express it, but without the standard elitism and backlash.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Yeah, I hope this is okay, too, as I think this subject might be hard to discuss without mentioning the latest chapters.

There's been some discussion over what NaruSaku would need in the current story-line to usurp the latest developments and have its place back in the obvious category. In other words, the pairing would be noticeably endgame to most readers, even to non NaruSaku fans. As it stands what action is needed from either Naruto or Sakura to make most see NaruSaku as obvious, and do you think the specific scenario is likely or possible at this point? How do you see it playing out?

For me, as non NS shipper, just this:

If Naruto lets go of Hinata's hand and says that she has been a good friend to him and Hinata looks disappointed at first but then smiles and says that Naruto is a good friend to her too. If this happened, I would consider it to mean that NH is platonic from Naruto's part. And then I would see no other end pairing but NS. If Naruto doesn't get together with Hinata, for me that means that he will definitely get together with Sakura. In similar way, if Sakura in the upcoming chapters is shown to be clearly upset about Hinata holding Naruto's hand (not just generally upset, sad or surprised, but actually shown reacting specifically to NH moment), then I will pretty much agree that NS has the best chance to be canon.

If this topic is allowed, I would be interested to see discussion about the opposite as well. As in, what development/moment/action would convince you that NS is not going to be canon?

[kirabook]

Let's see.... well... I have thought about what Sakura would need to do to overwrite what Hinata has done lately, but I can't think of much. I say that because what Hinata did most recently was very heroic, something many would expect Sakura to do, it was that... well, I wouldn't say moving, but for Naruto, it was moving. Although Sakura has done so much already, what could Sakura do that would be more moving towards Naruto? In Naruto's eyes, I don't think it's too hard to move him really, we've seen X amount of people do so on various levels, Hinata being the latest. But in the eyes of the fanbase, what would make a smother transition into NS?

The easiest way to do is for Kishi to finally make it clear that Naruto won't ever turn his eyes in Hinata's direction (romantic wise). I can't imagine any scenarios for that to happen from Naruto's side, but if there is ever a moment where Hinata witnesses another NS type moment, I can imagine an inner dialogue that she'll do as she said and stop chasing him (If she meant it that way in the first place)

Another way I can see NS happening is if they both fight together against Sasuke actually. Naruto wants to go at it alone, but if Sakura insists on assisting him, not for Sasuke, but for Naruto, then I also think that would validate NS in a way. She's already told the audience that she doesn't care too much about returning Sasuke anymore because it's hurting Naruto too much. She put Naruto above Sasuke already, if she continues on with that theme, I think that's a clear indication of NS.

I guess seeing a jealous Sakura could validate NS, but I don't want to see her jealous. That's just so petty and something the old Sakura would do, the fangirl Sakura. But then again, everyone gets jealous, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. As long as she doesn't start to treat Hinata like she did Ino, I guess I wouldn't care if she were jealous. I'd rather see her worried, maybe hurt or again, confused. Any reaction to the handholding would mean something, as long as it isn't a smile.

In general, I don't think NS will be validated until the very end. If NS is going to happen, first Hinata must give up on Naruto (somehow) and Sakura must get over Sasuke (maybe not completely, no one gets over past loves completely I believe, but it must be made even more clear that she'd choose Naruto over Sasuke anyday). After all that, then NS can happen correctly in my eyes.

[James S Cassidy]

Kiss or bust

[Don-kun]

I only need to see Sakura and Naruto roles inverted from what happened in the Hospital scene, plus Hinata thanking Naruto for being a great friend and Naruto reassuring her that they will always be good friend.
This would the best way to develop Hinata while keeping his characters true to them self, mostly Naruto since he is no fickle.


@kirabook
I will take time to read your post later, but that part about Sakura needing overwrite Hinata's moment is not necessarily, we need Sakura to become in the future a bad ass Kunoichi and a great supportive character.
Tsunade is not the Heroine and I'm pretty sure none of the two had a better moment than Tsunade, Sakura getting her moment without it be seeing like a competition between her and Hinata will be good for me after all she is the story heroine, you see I focus on the Manga in general and Hinata's achievements are no where near Sakura's achievements in this Manga.

Edited by Don-kun, 09 January 2013 - 05:13 AM.

[kirabook]

I don't mean a competition of strength or a great new battle feat or becoming stronger than the other. By that, I mean what will Sakura do next that will be equally or more supportive than what Hinata has done recently. What will make it clear that Sakura is the one that is Naruto's pillar and keeps him grounded? (not giving in to the darkside XD, but not as severe) Kishi made that scene so dramatic, I hope whatever he has planned for Sakura does not pale in comparison and will support what he has already built for NS rather than tear it down.

I've been reading some only manga lately (Fruit Basket in particular) and I realize that the mangaka didn't really make scenes between characters that were not going to be canon too big compared to the couple that was obviously canon. (I didn't read Fruit Baskets as it was being released, but I have read it 3 to 4 times now as a whole). Another manga that my friend has been wanting me to read for a while also does something similar with the pairing I think is obviously end game (Rosario Vampire). Never does any other females have a moment that means more to the male protagonist than the female that is supposed to be the heroine. Same deal in Mahou Sensei Negima that I haven't read in a while, the difference between the heroine and the fodder is obvious. The list can go on.

That is where I feel Kishi kinda.... over-exaggerated or messed up. Kishi was doing fine before, to me, end game was obvious. He sorta did what other mangaka did and threw in a couple of other 'fun' things for the fanbase to revel over, but if you do that too much, you're messing up your own story. If you want there to be a pairing in the end and you don't want your fanbase to go wild over a final decision, then you can't write your manga in a way where people doubt your heroine is a heroine or if the hints you've set up mean anything at all.

As time goes by, Kishi is making more hoops for NS to jump through to seem believable. I still believe they are end game, but I don't want them to be end game just because, I want their journey to that conclusion to be well written and believable, not only for me, but for others too.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

What would validate NaruSaku as canon for me? I have far too many scenerios.

My first thought is that if Naruto's feelings for Sakura are hinted at or mentioned again. Not entirely unlikely despite the many chapters that have passed since we last saw it in 469-470. Sakura, for example. Her feelings for Sasuke weren't brought up again as romantic until the Kage Summit Arc (Or 540, if you want to be technical) for well past some 100 chapters, correct? That's where I'm going with this. While NS wouldn't truly be canon if his feelings appear again, I'd feel even more convinced that NaruHina really was just a narrative feint and Hinata development. It's chances would plummet after that in my eyes.

Another one I happen to favor is for Sakura to go through some sort of inner struggle after the NH hand-holding scene. I don't wanna see her "jealous" exactly nor do I truly expect her to be (Why? It's Hinata, people. Being mean to her is like kicking a puppy). It puts her in a very petty and bad light IMO. That's the last thing I want from her. However, I wouldn't mind seeing her sad/uncomfortable/confused over it. But she'd try to ignore it because "Hinata deserves him more". I also wouldn't mind Sakura feeling a bit upset again and her inferiority complex might rear it's ugly head. She could easily feel like Hinata does far more for Naruto than she ever did (which we all know isn't true). Eventually, Naruto might realize that she's acting weird and he'll find out through talking to her how undeserving of him she feels. From then on, NS end game is ridiculously likely.

This next scenerio ties in with my first one, except a little more elaborated. Naruto's feelings could be reaffirmed through life-and-death situations. For example, ObiRin is still a parallel (More twisted, obsessive, and dark but it's there. ). Despite it being possible Obito might assume Hinata is the girl he loves, I still haven't completely ruled out Sakura getting killed or fatally injuried than revived by Obito through redemption. ObiRin is such a screaming 'in your face' parallel to NS and combine that with Obito's fixation to "destroy Naruto so he turns out just like him" by killing the people he loves. I predict he might rage and plow through the Alliance until he gets to Sakura. I can't say how the entire thing will play out but that is a sure fire way to confirm Naruto's feelings in a war without it seeming out of place and forced.

I thought of another, thanks to James's posts lately. During the final arc that resolves Sasuke and the Team 7 loose ends, it would be fitting if Sakura confronts him over this and worries about him dying with Sasuke like he predicted. I can't really explain it but I picture Sakura & Naruto arguing with each other once again when she possibly get's angry at him always shutting her out by his protective mental wall he build up. The confession was a notable example and I doubt she's given up on making him open up because she cares. I just was reminded of this not just by James but Sakura's confession to Sasuke in Part 1. They both don't tell her everthing or truly open up to her like she wants but for very different reasons. With this resolved, I see NS becoming canon from this as well. Maybe a OVA NS moment in the manga while fighting Sasuke afterwards too.

That's my predictions, anyway. Hopefully, I have some semblence of sense in the wording.

[sardns]

To validate NaruSaku at this point, I think Sakura would have to confess to herself that she's fallen in love with Naruto. I know some NS fans believe that Sakura was telling the truth during her confession, but I personally believe that she was lying (I also know a lot of people here have the opposite opinion about the confession, so I really don't want to argue with anyone about this subject). Also, we need to know Naruto still loves Sakura despite him giving Hinata a lot of attention lately. That way, their love is confirmed to be mutual.

Or maybe during/after Naruto and Sasuke's final battle, Sakura shows more concern for Naruto being alive than Sasuke.

For NaruSaku to become invalid, I think Sakura would have to think of how much she still loves Sasuke upon seeing Naruto and Hinata interact in the last chapter. This is honestly what worries me most at this point since she got a whole panel to herself reacting to looking at them, and we don't know for sure what her expression means.

Edited by sardns, 09 January 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, if Naruto shows a sign of loving NS or ends this arc with NS capturing a large point, then that would validate NaruSaku. If Hinata can't change Naruto's feeling in this arc, it's all over. This is a make it or break it. It is hard to imagine NH happening here, let alone hinting, because we still have Team 7 situation underway. That said the whole drama won't be as effective as to say Kage Summit Arc. I always saw that arc as "To be concluded..." arc because it leaves many speculations on the whole team future. The last talk of this was pretty much when Naruto told everyone to back off once Sasuke comes. That said that left Sakura in question, which is now "to be continued..." This arc is to provide like many fanservices of all characters as well as developing them to the full circle. We are now witnessing Konoha 9 (not sure on Sai...) to get theirs.

Anyway, the first two parts I said above is what would validate NaruSaku. If you kill NaruHina, you're pretty much set. This next chapter could be a do or die situation because we overthink ourselves to where it's heading next. There's so many roads to take but only one will chosen. One would say Sakura is upset, other would say nothing will happen, other will say Sakura wishes she gets that with Sasuke, and so on. Also, if it's true that we are going by one-by-one, Sakura is in there, which to be honest, can determine a lot. We know they're still friends, but at what level now. Time is coming.

[Toasty Warrior]

Personally I don't think we'll get much more NaruSaku moments because of the war, but I'm not ruling out we'll get some subtle ones like we have in past chapters. I really think the whole NaruSaku relationship and it finally coming to a head will be in the final fight with Naruto vs Sasuke. We know she loves both of them, but I think the final battle will make her choose which person she wants to support, but it's obvious from all the hints we've gotten over the years that it's Naruto. I know Sakura still has her feelings for Sasuke, but I think she'll finally confront those feelings and say it was nothing more than a crush and finally admit she has something for Naruto. It's bound to happen, it can't be avoided forever.

[Chucky-kun]

Can I ask a question? Are confirm and validate the same thing. It's like saying if the manga showed sakura having outright inner feelings for naruto, that's confirmations that NS is going to happen, but a kiss would validate NS as having become canon.

[Branden]

validate?

val·i·date
/ˈvaləˌdāt/
Verb
Check or prove the validity or accuracy of (something).
Demonstrate or support the truth or value of: "her feelings are validated".

Perhaps you should change the question from validate to confirm as cannon.

[tricksie]

Can I ask a question? Are confirm and validate the same thing. It's like saying if the manga showed sakura having outright inner feelings for naruto, that's confirmations that NS is going to happen, but a kiss would validate NS as having become canon.

You're right. And that's a good thought, because those two words would have different implications for this situation.

To confirm it would mean you have hard and fast mutual evidence. An event has happened, that can be agreed on and recognized by all sides, that can be referred back to to prove the point.

So confirmation of NS would be
1. a love event;
2. that was mutually reciprocated;
3. and was publicly recognized.

Or like a kiss, that both of them want and/or participate in, and that others either see or talk about as having absolutely happened.

To validate it, you only need to have expressions of love from both sides. And that can happen separately or together.

So we know Naruto loves Sakura because he always has and nothing has changed that. And we know Sakura loves Naruto because she told him so (regardless of whether you believe it's true or not).

So their feelings for one another are valid. We have evidence that validates this fact. Or rather, NS fans are not just 'making it up!'

NH however was in the land of non-validation until this last chapter. But now there is validation for Hinata's feelings for Naruto, and an apparent validation of his returning her feelings. (Apparent being the operative word there, because it's meant to appear that way.)

Her feelings for him are valid because there is evidence to support it is still there. She hasn't moved on.

But NH cannot be confirmed because there has not been an unambiguous mutual love demonstration that is publicly recognized. Or, just because Naruto grabbed her hand in the middle of battle to give her chakra doesn't mean he loves her. No matter how much she loves him.

And unfortunately NS cannot be confirmed either because even though Naruto and Sakura have shown attraction for each other, it has not been mutually reciprocated at the right time. Hell, Naruto has just had this going-nowhere crush for years. He's never once acted on it. Not seriously. In that way he is exactly like Jiraiya. Even talking to Sai about his promise, he never truly admitted he liked/loved her. It was just implied.

But the fact that nothing has been done to show that either Sakura or Naruto have changed their feelings means their attraction is still valid.

Just not yet confirmed.

So, I guess that's kind of an empirical way of looking at it. heh-heh....

Back to the original thought, you could come up with answers for both.

What past events prove that NS is valid, and what future event would confirm their love for each other?

[Don-kun]

I don't mean a competition of strength or a great new battle feat or becoming stronger than the other. By that, I mean what will Sakura do next that will be equally or more supportive than what Hinata has done recently. What will make it clear that Sakura is the one that is Naruto's pillar and keeps him grounded? (not giving in to the darkside XD, but not as severe) Kishi made that scene so dramatic, I hope whatever he has planned for Sakura does not pale in comparison and will support what he has already built for NS rather than tear it down.

I've been reading some only manga lately (Fruit Basket in particular) and I realize that the mangaka didn't really make scenes between characters that were not going to be canon too big compared to the couple that was obviously canon. (I didn't read Fruit Baskets as it was being released, but I have read it 3 to 4 times now as a whole). Another manga that my friend has been wanting me to read for a while also does something similar with the pairing I think is obviously end game (Rosario Vampire). Never does any other females have a moment that means more to the male protagonist than the female that is supposed to be the heroine. Same deal in Mahou Sensei Negima that I haven't read in a while, the difference between the heroine and the fodder is obvious. The list can go on.

That is where I feel Kishi kinda.... over-exaggerated or messed up. Kishi was doing fine before, to me, end game was obvious. He sorta did what other mangaka did and threw in a couple of other 'fun' things for the fanbase to revel over, but if you do that too much, you're messing up your own story. If you want there to be a pairing in the end and you don't want your fanbase to go wild over a final decision, then you can't write your manga in a way where people doubt your heroine is a heroine or if the hints you've set up mean anything at all.

As time goes by, Kishi is making more hoops for NS to jump through to seem believable. I still believe they are end game, but I don't want them to be end game just because, I want their journey to that conclusion to be well written and believable, not only for me, but for others too.

Lets try to go back to Sakura's confession, after her confession Kishi mention all kind of stuff in regards to his Manga and his character, but more importantly he made a commitment with the fans to focus on his main Heroine and show her with more spirit.

Since that day all we have gotten to far is Hinata heroine moment, lets start from Kushina's advice in this chapter 505 there was a clear indication that Naruto would make a mention about Sakura, but he never did she was back on back with Hinata with no mention of his feelings for the girls he always loved, 540 we have what seems to be an off panel moment between Naruto and Hinata, 558 we have the moment when Naruto save Hinata while apologizing for being late and telling her that everything is going to be OK, 559 we have Hinata internal struggle and the eye stuff, 552 we got Itachi's speech to Naruto about the importance of his friends and Kushina, 573 Hinata vowing that next time she is going to be with him holding hands, 611 Hinata gran entrance with Kiba teasing him about showing off because Hinata is there, 614 Hinata display of heroism, Neji's death and his final advice asking him to notice Hinata and what she is willing to do for you, 615 the biggest slap in all NS fans face plus Itachi's words being foreshadowing through Hinata.

The sad part about this is that Kishimoto made a commitment with the fans saying that he will focus on Sakura's character but 3 years later he said that Sakura slip through his mind while he apologize for taking so long with Kakashi.

This is what I call exaggeration at a new level and a man with no word.

[Candleguy]

All that is needed is for Sakura to make a move

[Derock]

Kiss or bust

I prefer "Kiss, sex (implied), marriage, and babies/children or bust", if you know what I mean.

[T XD]

A confession from Naruto or another real confession from Sakura which the other accepting it or a kiss.
That the most two common things to use on two characters to become a pairing.

Edited by T XD, 09 January 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

If you ask me, it seems Kishi wants Naruto to be the only one left to do the confession. Maybe he's that kind of guy who believes a man should be coming to a woman. Naruto is the only one left, so I believe he's the last one.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Lets try to go back to Sakura's confession, after her confession Kishi mention all kind of stuff in regards to his Manga and his character, but more importantly he made a commitment with the fans to focus on his main Heroine and show her with more spirit.

Since that day all we have gotten to far is Hinata heroine moment, lets start from Kushina's advice in this chapter 505 there was a clear indication that Naruto would make a mention about Sakura, but he never did she was back on back with Hinata with no mention of his feelings for the girls he always loved, 540 we have what seems to be an off panel moment between Naruto and Hinata, 558 we have the moment when Naruto save Hinata while apologizing for being late and telling her that everything is going to be OK, 559 we have Hinata internal struggle and the eye stuff, 552 we got Itachi's speech to Naruto about the importance of his friends and Kushina, 573 Hinata vowing that next time she is going to be with him holding hands, 611 Hinata gran entrance with Kiba teasing him about showing off because Hinata is there, 614 Hinata display of heroism, Neji's death and his final advice asking him to notice Hinata and what she is willing to do for you, 615 the biggest slap in all NS fans face plus Itachi's words being foreshadowing through Hinata.

The sad part about this is that Kishimoto made a commitment with the fans saying that he will focus on Sakura's character but 3 years later he said that Sakura slip through his mind while he apologize for taking so long with Kakashi.

This is what I call exaggeration at a new level and a man with no word.

The arc didnt ended, he too said that side characters would receive development.

[James S Cassidy]

I prefer "Kiss, sex (implied), marriage, and babies/children or bust", if you know what I mean.

heh. I know, right? Yeah, but I think we have gotten to a pint where just physical touch can no longer be anything. Hugging, holding hands, it has all gotten so confusing that I might as well say that we need more than that.