5 replies to this topic

[digifruit]

The deeper underlying theme of a story tends to be often overlooked since plot and character development are "sexier", so I figured I'd try bringing the topic up for discussion.

As a reader, I just read fanfiction to be entertained, so I don't really care either way if other authors put effort into the theme for their stories or not. A story written without a strong theme in mind is mostly "light" reading for the sake of entertainment, literary fast food, but that's exactly what I'm looking for when I read fanfiction, so a powerful theme really is just a nice extra, nothing necessary. For example, if I a read a story about a bank heist... and if it has a deeper metaphorical allegory about the economy or veiled commentary on the human condition, then great... but if it really is just a simple story about a bank heist and nothing deeper, it's still fine to me as long as it's entertaining. If an author does put in the effort to integrate a strong theme into a story, it does tend to make a deeper and more lasting impression on me than just an entertaining plot alone though.

As an author, however, I generally put more thought into the theme than on the plot. Oneshots aren't really long enough to build complex plot or character development, so I try to put a lot of effort into the theme to make up for it.

So how much effort or thought do you put into the deeper underlying theme of your story? Do you like to start out with a plot idea and have the theme sort of develop out of it? Or do you like to start out with a theme in mind and try to come up with a plot idea that will be best suited to conveying it to the reader? Do you handle plot and theme as something that is inseparable? Or do you just not really think about theme at all and focus instead on plot and character?

And, on the other side of the coin, at what point does a theme in a story just become pretentious or "over-workshopped"?

Edited by digifruit, 11 February 2011 - 12:41 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

Since I like writing a lot of oneshots, I tend to have a theme in mind while writing them. Usually there is a movement toward characters discovering something and achieving emotional development. Well, since I pretty much always write romance, it would have to be emotional development XD Though not necessarily romantic development. And I don't usually deal with too complicated of themes, just general growing up sort of things. Not to say they aren't important...

As far as how I create a theme and plot, which comes first, etc...I think I don't just do it one way every time. Or at least I can't recall doing that. Sometimes there is a theme I want to cover and ideas for the plot come based on that theme. Sometimes I visualize some scene in my mind and it connects to a theme at some point during the stories creation. For me, it's a bit harder to think of a plot with a theme in mind already than match an already imagined plot with a theme. But it really just depends what strikes me first.

[Nate River]

The deeper underlying theme of a story tends to be often overlooked since plot and character development are "sexier", so I figured I'd try bringing the topic up for discussion.

As a reader, I just read fanfiction to be entertained, so I don't really care either way if other authors put effort into the theme for their stories or not. A story written without a strong theme in mind is mostly "light" reading for the sake of entertainment, literary fast food, but that's exactly what I'm looking for when I read fanfiction, so a powerful theme really is just a nice extra, nothing necessary. For example, if I a read a story about a bank heist... and if it has a deeper metaphorical allegory about the economy or veiled commentary on the human condition, then great... but if it really is just a simple story about a bank heist and nothing deeper, it's still fine to me as long as it's entertaining. If an author does put in the effort to integrate a strong theme into a story, it does tend to make a deeper and more lasting impression on me than just an entertaining plot alone though.

As an author, however, I generally put more thought into the theme than on the plot. Oneshots aren't really long enough to build complex plot or character development, so I try to put a lot of effort into the theme to make up for it.

So how much effort or thought do you put into the deeper underlying theme of your story? Do you like to start out with a plot idea and have the theme sort of develop out of it? Or do you like to start out with a theme in mind and try to come up with a plot idea that will be best suited to conveying it to the reader? Do you handle plot and theme as something that is inseparable? Or do you just not really think about theme at all and focus instead on plot and character?

And, on the other side of the coin, at what point does a theme in a story just become pretentious or "over-workshopped"?

My tendency as a reader is pretty much the same. As an author I like to think I put some effort theme because there is some broader idea I'm trying to portray outside the plot. When brainstorming, I usually start with the theme and try to create a plot with the illustrates it. For me, it's considerably harder to do the reverse because I'm forced to modify and bend an already developed plot to fit the theme, sometimes in ways that may make no sense. I also don't think I'm terribly good about developing original plots separate from anything else. I find it easier to create a plot when I have a theme or specific goal in mind. When I have that in place, I ask myself questions about what is necessary (and reasonable) to make it happen and the plot and development flow from that.

Even in cases where the theme is pretty simple, I think it acts an anchor that helps keep direction with a definite end. I've read many a fanfic that have no direction with no obvious end in sight. Relationship focused fics (that I've read) that lack any overriding goal often appear rudderless with the author making up convoluted and out of nowhere "hardships" just to keep it moving, but really has nowhere to go.

[TwinEnigma]

It depends on the story or how it writes itself in my head.

Sometimes, it doesn't start out with a theme and it ends up with one I hadn't even considered when I started the hashout. Other times, there may be no obvious theme. And sometimes, I start with the theme and work through the plot from there. I also have the unfortunate habit of writing starting from the middle of things and I just sort of know the way it wants to go.

The theme ones with only a tenuous plot I tend to handle with kid gloves. They get a lot more time and attention in terms of work because there's so little plot to work with. I'm a lot more careful with nuance.

The plot ones get a different kind of work from me. They usually get hashed out in general first and then built up and refined. The themes are usually much more developed and subtle, much less hit you over the head with it.

The two most common themes that show up with my work tend to be "growing up" and "passing the torch." Others tend to focus around emotional, mental and relationship issues, though much more rarely. I actually have no idea if it's a good thing I keep going back to these, but obviously they're attractive themes and fit with the majority of fandoms I write for, so IDK

Edited by TwinEnigma, 11 February 2011 - 09:00 AM.

[tricksie]

Hmmm....

For me, bigger stories have more room for themes; one-shots are simply built around an idea, a single line or action on the part of a character.

And the themes are a strange synthesis of writing an action around the character, then reasoning through why that character acts that way. That's where the themes come out. Then I find that once I've identified something about Naruto or Sakura, why they act the way they do, then I unintentionally write to that. It has happened time and time again.

However, this also may have something to do with how I write: I don't go start-to-finish, I am writing little bits all the way through, all at the same time. I like to think that I write from side-to-side, as well as front-to back. That way, when write a little scene about Naruto having a fiery temper in his younger days, I automatically write about how he will amend that characteristic when he's older. Perhaps another scene where that problem is resolved. I've not yet written either chapter that those scenes will appear in, only that he has a small issue and later this is how he will resolve it. Then I go on writing back in chapter I want to post next. This is where I realize that the themes centered around his character rise to the surface.

I keep a few notes sheets where I jot down ideas, themes, etc., stuff I want to weave through the story. But I find that I'm already writing in the vein I want to be in. So that's what seems to work for me.

I do have other writing projects where the theme comes first, then the action. But in those I am trying to convey a specific message, and I could have any character dance through the movements.







I would say, though, that because my fanfic writing is a personal project, I am not going for theme first.

[Kenhime]

A lot of plot bunnies pop up in my head, but most of them do not make it to paper (or screen) unless there is an underlying theme I want to explore. Everything needs to tie together in some fashion, thus I put theme as the center of my plot. I plan my scenes to fit with this theme; I also come up with certain motifs, foils, and symbolic objects, as well as pieces of music that fit with what I want to write. Incidentally, most of my story outlines are actually mp3 lists.

My greatest weakness as a writer, then, comes from the character development. I don't stretch the length of my chapters to build the characters as thoroughly as I like because I'm always itching to move the plot forward to build the theme further. Plot follows from expanding upon the theme, so in my mind it's important that it follows some sort of logical sense. That in itself can be a challenge that I find myself stuck in rut with.

I can definitely answer the question as to when the theme becomes "over-workshopped". It's when readers become confused as to what kind of message you're trying to convey because there are too many thematic objects that don't tie in together elegantly and the narrative becomes convoluted. Readers will wonder why the heck you keep bringing up something when it has nothing to do with the actual plot. Keeping the theme subtle and apparent but not obviously tacked in is the most difficult thing to manage when you write stories around themes.