369 replies to this topic

[shadow_Uzumaki]

@RG:

Actually, Paradox Jast and I have this long-standing theory that Minato saw this all coming because he had time traveled with Hiraishin (by accident). He went back and forth from his present to the future and set up several things like double locks on Naruto's seal and the failsafe devices. He also finds out the alliance fought the Juubi in the future from small hints and notes from the distant future after the war. This explains last chapter's explanation regarding the chakra freebies.

I don't think the alliance would've stood a chance if Minato hadn't specifically designed his seal to help Naruto do so. That would've taken a couple of years to prepare beforehand. He also finds out something about him being alive in the future, which would none other than be this.

Soon after this, I predict Minato meeting Naruto (I still hope for a Kushina resurrection) and fighting him, but thanks to preparation he set up years ago, he designed for Kurama's chakra and Naruto's seal to break him out of ET somehow.

He probably knew Hokages 1-3 would be resurrected, but he would've needed a sample from them. He can't possibly get them for obvious reasons. Hiruzen, because he doesn't want to tell him his plan. Hashirama and his brother goes without saying.

I think Minato becoming Hokage again is a high possibility now. Kakashi wouldn't take it because he probably feels undeserving of a position. Especially now that he realizes he's essentially the whole reason the world got into this mess in the first place. Kakashi has a ton of indirect body counts on his head to boot, including Neji.

So you and Paradox, together, came up with Hindsight: Foresight, eh?

Although an awesome idea, I think it's still too far-fetched and possibly beyond Kishi's level of planning... At least the time-travelling part.

I wouldn't put it past Minato, however, to design contingencies to the seal and plan so far ahead against Tobi, simply because Minato is just that 'crazy-prepared.' The fandom seems to consider him to have Batman or Xanatos-level planning, even without giving him time-travelling knowledge....

....Also, Kishi making Minato pull counter-plans into the air wouldn't seem like an asspull, given his perceived reputation.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 04 February 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[T XD]

So you and Paradox, together, came up with Hindsight: Foresight, eh?

Although an awesome idea, I think it's still too far-fetched and possibly beyond Kishi's level of planning... At least the time-travelling part.

I wouldn't put it past Minato, however, to design contingencies to the seal and plan so far ahead against Tobi, simply because Minato is just that 'crazy-prepared.' The fandom seems to consider him to have Batman or Xanatos-level planning, even without giving him time-travelling knowledge....

....Also, Kishi making Minato pull counter-plans into the air wouldn't seem like an asspull, given his perceived reputation.

I don't know why, but Minato has a charisma that gives me the thought that he's like a psychic or something

[Deej]

So you and Paradox, together, came up with Hindsight: Foresight, eh?

Although an awesome idea, I think it's still too far-fetched and possibly beyond Kishi's level of planning... At least the time-travelling part.

I wouldn't put it past Minato, however, to design contingencies to the seal and plan so far ahead against Tobi, simply because Minato is just that 'crazy-prepared.' The fandom seems to consider him to have Batman or Xanatos-level planning, even without giving him time-travelling knowledge....

....Also, Kishi making Minato pull counter-plans into the air wouldn't seem like an asspull, given his perceived reputation.

The fandom would scream shenanigans if Kishi even attempted something like that. The manga has gotten a little kooky, but this would be over the top.

The only people I think the fandom would accept over the top Batman or Xanatos level planning from is Shikamaru or Shikaku; given their ridiculous hyped intelligence, and at least in Shikamaru's case, an over 200 I.Q. Minato, while well prepared, doesn't have that level of brain where you can literally make him omnipotent like you can do with Shikamaru, and just explain it with his over 200 I.Q.

Even if Minato did time travel and set up Naruto's chakra to do what we saw the last few chapters, how could he have assumed that Shikaku would figure out how to use it and explain it to Naruto? It wasn't like there were any clues left for him by Minato. He figured it out on his own. So it doesn't fit the narrative at all.

Thankfully, time travel is something I doubt we will ever have to worry about in Naruto. Nor we will see zombies being Hokages. That doesn't fit into the story at all. I like Minato, but his role in the story is just about over. It is NARUTO's time now. Along with Sasuke and their generation. The Hokages are the past.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

The fandom would scream shenanigans if Kishi even attempted something like that. The manga has gotten a little kooky, but this would be over the top.

The only people I think the fandom would accept over the top Batman or Xanatos level planning from is Shikamaru or Shikaku; given their ridiculous hyped intelligence, and at least in Shikamaru's case, an over 200 I.Q. Minato, while well prepared, doesn't have that level of brain where you can literally make him omnipotent like you can do with Shikamaru, and just explain it with his over 200 I.Q.

Even if Minato did time travel and set up Naruto's chakra to do what we saw the last few chapters, how could he have assumed that Shikaku would figure out how to use it and explain it to Naruto? It wasn't like there were any clues left for him by Minato. He figured it out on his own. So it doesn't fit the narrative at all.

Thankfully, time travel is something I doubt we will ever have to worry about in Naruto. Nor we will see zombies being Hokages. That doesn't fit into the story at all. I like Minato, but his role in the story is just about over. It is NARUTO's time now. Along with Sasuke and their generation. The Hokages are the past.

Dude, this is a guy who planted hiraishin seals ALL OVER Konoha JUST in case he had to redirect an explosion or get somewhere fast. He also had an exclusive one on Kushina that led to a Safehouse. He already suspected something was up when Tobi was barely making a move. His seal on Naruto contained a fail-safe that made sure the Kyuubi wouldn't be released when the seal was close to breaking, allowed a one-time total reconstruction of the seal, AND allowed Naruto to see his mother and father again. He even created that "Key" that he gave to the Toads as another fail-safe, just in case the reconstruction failed again. Even earlier, he gave Kakashi one of his Hiraishin kunai, just in case, despite him undergoing a critical assignment (i.e. wiping out an entire army).

Also, this is a guy who managed to create a technique that manipulated time-space and created a technique that required no hand signs.

I wouldn't be surprised by any plans that Minato's concocted.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 04 February 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[Inferno180]

And the long-standing debate of Sakura's development gets brought up again ...


I'm one of those fans who are disapointed in how Kishimoto executes her. By a lot. It's just ... how come we never get more from Sakura than getting sidelined? Her biggest moment ever so far in Part 2 was the Sasori fight, very epic and amazing indeed. But that was so long ago. I know she's a medical ninja and her job is to heal, but it's such an easy excuse for Kishi to not let her fight at all. She's your heroine, damnnit. She should be way more than what she actually is. It's just so upsetting. Sakura is supposed to be one of the main protagonists yet I always have to say she is by definition. I hate saying that. If only Kishimoto could execute her potential again correctly, like he did in the Sasori fight. Why is she so overshadowed by Sasuke & Naruto? Why? Even Tsunade was closer in strength to Jiraiya and Orochimaru than Sakura, even though she was still the weaker one. And it's fairly obvious that she hasn't surpassed her teacher yet, unlike Naruto and Sasuke(?). It's just not fair to her, it's neglecting. I'm not saying she has to be a powerhouse or in constant, constant fights. I have never expected her of that and I don't demand it. Sakura's strength is that she's a "normal girl" who happens to have super strength and chakra control without the help of a Bloodline Limit. It makes sense for her to not be a "powerhouse". But being a "normal girl" does not excuse the fact that Sakura truly can't at least marginally keep up with her teammates.

Looking back that Part 1 and the Forest of Death scene, Sakura lamented that she was always behind and Naruto/Sasuke were always in the lead, saving her every time while she could do nothing at all. That was when she decided she no longer wanted it like that, so she said they should watch her back. It seemed like then that was foreshadowing of Sakura being closer in strength to them. Kishimoto had a completely open opportunity to do so. Apparently, this was a red herring. And then the Kage Summit had her try and do something again, so she could take away Naruto's burden. Yet she said at the end of it all: "All I ever do is cry ... my resolve is nothing compared to Naruto's. I couldn't do anything .... all I have to do is believe in them!" But then we have the Sakura speech: "No matter what you say, we will be together ... we'll all fight together." Basically, while I'm leaning on this being foreshadowing of Sakura doing something, it really doesn't excuse all the years of neglect. Nothing will be good enough to make me forget that.

sushi mentioned Inuyasha's heroine. While Kagome was a damsel in distress all the time (far worse than Sakura ever has been, btw) and a complete Inuyasha satellitte that had nothing that deep about her other than her love for him (Hinata-level, my friends. That's how bad it was), at least she was very revelant to the plot. I don't think there was every any moment where Kagome got sidelined for ridiculous amounts of time, not like Sakura. Plus, she had the very epic moment where she almost killed the main frickin' villain. Imagine how we would feel if Sakura had a moment like that with one of the main villians? Rumiko Takashi never neglected her heroine, unlike Kishi. But Sakura's character development is amazing and very well-thought out emotionally. My only problem is her illogical and damaging love for Sasuke, but it's obvious she'll overcome this too at one point or another despite the fact she should already be over him. I'm very happy with her growing affection for Naruto, highlighting her change little by little. While a lot of her character is romance based around her love for Naruto and Sasuke, I don't believe at all she's as bad as Hinata. It's at least not terrible enough to dignifiy her to be unlikable, like Hinata is for me.

And speaking of Hinata, I just realized something fully considering 615. As much as it pains me to say this and I would much rather see Sakura do things, I can see why we are getting force-fed Hinata so many times. It makes a sickening degree of sense despite the fact that I completely despise 615 and how Naruto turned into some mewling, giving up guy who cracks under pressure. Let me explain why Sakura wasn't the one to do this and why Naruto was regressed. See, unlike Hinata, Sakura has done tons of maturing and growing up emotionally. She's very good in the support field and it's now to the point her character development is very nearly done: All that's left now is realizing she loves Naruto and overcoming her feelings for Sasuke. That's all that needs to be done. Let's look at Hinata now. She has changed very little throughout the series and remained static, compared to Sakura. She was unconfident and still Naruto-kuning. 615 fixed half of that. She's now more confident and proved she can stand up to Naruto if it was serious enough. That was something she desperately needed. My point is, Hinata is so underdeveloped as a character, Kishi needs to cram all of her development in rushed, forced examples so she can finally grow. Still has her obsessive, Naruto-centricness but it's baby steps.

@Don-Kun:

I agree with you so much about the competition between us and the NH fans/Sakura haters. It effects all of our judgement on things, no doubt. Sakura has so many haters, Hinata has so many fans. NaruHina is very popular, NaruSaku isn't compared to it (At least in the West and the NH fans are very loud). Because of all of this constant Sakura bashing/NS bashing, the NS/Sakura fans get offended and try to defend their reasoning or why they think that NS will happen or why we love Sakura. Because of this extreme degree of love/hate on both sides of the spectrum, it erupts into never-ending arguments and sometimes bashing.

It really affects my enjoyment of the story tbh. I almost feel like I'm forced to care about all of this when they bash Sakura or say NS is dead. It's annoying. I already have several NH fans claiming to me that I'm in denial, NaruSaku isn't even a possibility anymore because of Naruto's "I hate people who lie to themselves" line, Naruto never loved Sakura, the blush during Sakura's confession doesn't mean he loves her, his anger then doesn't mean he loves her, Sakura isn't ashamed of her feelings for Sasuke, he isn't hurt by her feelings for Sasuke blah blah blah, their opinion is 100% superior compared to mine (I actually had a NH fan say that bluntly to my face yesterday. God, the arrogance ). Honestly, I was literally getting attacked on all sides and those stubborn NH fans never listen to reason, even when I literally said "NH's possible". I try and respect the NH fan's opinions yet some claim I'm in denial or that I'm stupid. It got so bad yesterday, I actually had to take a break. I still haven't responded or looked at their next replies yet. *sigh*

I agree with most of this, Kishi could have been smart enough to give Sakura more fights in the manga, here role really elevated in the sasori fight and she had a good role in the sasuke and sai arc as well. However that's when her physical role development typically stopped. Sakura has more or less remained an emotionally developed character. Its understandable to have Naruto and Sasuke keep growing in power but I would have at least accepted it if Sakura was around kakashi's level and we know Kakashi himself is able to deal with kage leveled battles. I'm only saying if Kishi gave Sakura power in the range of Tsunade, Kakashi, and Gaara, that would be okay with me, it would be one of the stronger ones but sadly its not. Sakura is a well developed character but that did not mean she had to be forsaken almost entirely in the physical department, Kishi could have made Sakura grow kinda to the level Oda made Nami and Ussop in One Piece, both are capable and can handle some tough foes but the strongest are still left to luffy, zoro, and sanji.

This is one reason why I tend to enjoy the anime more than the manga, we still see some more with Sakura doing physical battles which is acceptable and which she has only a few roles in the manga. I mean if crazy hinata fans praise the majority of Hinata's development being fillers, I'm at least glad Sakura's role in fillers at least gives her action, the anime team does what Kishi had no time for originally. That's not to say Sakura's role is not important, she is very important to the story and part of the central conflict, mainly around the promise. Remember part of this dissapointment is mainly due to Kishi having an inate weakness for heroines, something he constantly admits, if your main female is not around a major action role, its not gonna look good for the supporting females. The only females that have the high battle skills in the series aside from Sakura (we know she has skills) are sadly those who are off-screen most of the time, Tsunade, Mei (5th mizkage), Temari, Yugito, and Anko, they all have respectable skills but are either limited. We saw 2 fights with Tsunade actually fighting and they were fine, Temari was around with Gaara, Mei had high action skills like Tsunade, Yugito was killed off early. Hell with Anko being one of two leftovers for orochimaru, I'm surprised they never made a filler focused around Yamato and Anko for their roles as orochimaru's experiments.

Compared to them they have more skill than Sakura (save Temari, Sakura was a 26 in the databook, Temari was a 24). Yet Sakura has the bigger role. Sakura is a very good character its just she never got a least another good fight like Sasori and her physical development has been minimal I mean think of it like this:

Start of part 2, she is practically even with Naruto. After Naruto finishes his rasenshuriken and defeats Kakuzu, well he has no additional power only a strong jutsu. Naruto and Sakura are around even in most cases. Now fast forward to sage training, basically now Naruto has sage power to stand even to Sasuke who just got the power to use Itachi's techniques. Sakura is left behind from this point. Sasuke awakens the incomplete Susanno and gets Itachi's eyes, Naruto gets form 1 of the tailed beast chakra from Kurama. Sakura gets nothing as she goes to war. Now Naruto has the 2nd form, in sync with Kurama while sasuke with his eternal eyes and perfect Susanno stand ready. Both figuretly have the power to reduce nations with their power, Sakura is outclassed. If she at least gets one last power boost from Tsunade I'm not going to freak out but least it could give her the role she needed, I mean if kishi had to cram Hinata's development all at once, a quick limited power boost for Sakura would not be as bad, least Sakura has development.

Sakura is a very good character and makes good use of her skillset but I really wish she got more. She was first sidelined in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc (but with all respect that was team 10s arc) and again a minor role in the itachi pursuit arc (again with respect this was Sasuke's arc and it was time for it). But then came pain and her role in the 5 kage summit, then the big sideline was for the war. The main premise for the 4th world war arc has been due to so many characters, it figured everyone would be taken out for some time, Naruto and Sasuke were sidelined for a while as we watched characters like Dauri and Mifune who we hardly knew fight against these very powerful guys from the past of the other villages we hardly knew until this point. We always knew the leaf and a good deal about the sand, but limited on the cloud due tot he into of bee. The stone and mist villages had a lot of work to explain themselves, we hardly knew them and still don't know as much.

I enjoy Sakura, she is a mentally developed character first which gives her a fixed role and a physically developed one second and it remains more or less the same, I'm just glad that as a mental character, she has the tenacity to use her limited skill set to face enemies most others could not which at least gives her a fighting chance. Just wish she would get one power boost or some event comes in and she finally surpasses Tsunade, if Tsunade dies then this would be the time for Sakura to surpass her.

As for the Naruhina stuff, yes its annoying. Not going to mention the lack or reason or insults many haters put out but one of the stupidest reasons I ever heard for NaruHina was one said that kishi realized how big it is here compared to japan and how they outnumber it all over the world and how he is doing it because he wants to please his fans. I asked this one person if she was seriously thinking that kishi would do that because of their desires and she said yes. I asked her again if they ever thought that kishi should be influenced by his fanbase rather than what he thinks as an artist and storyteller, to decide what he feels or give in to the crazy demands of fans? I told these people that if this was how things operated then anyone who wanted Jiriaya, Asuma, and Neji to die, well thats why kishi did it, because fans wanted it to happen, not out of development for Naruto, team 10, Hinata, and team guy. He should kill them because fans wanted it. Well then I told them that because they wished for Sakura to die so hard, it does not work that way now does it? Sakura's death would be meaningless and totally uproot so much of the story, what really peeved them off was when I said he could have let Hinata die in the Pain arc, Hinata had done nothing of significance for the story and she could have died, it would have only been a sadness for Naruto because he would have understood how it felt to lose a father like figure and a friend. Sakrua cannot die because well the story plot just shields her too much, the promise Naruto made and how she tries to help is a story element which makes it so Kishi cannot logically kill Sakura off and at the same time, much in the same way Chiyo died for Gaara and Neji died for Hinata, Tusnade is keeping Sakura safe from this, if Tsunade dies, there is a reason for her so it could further Sakura like the ones mentioned before. If he decided to suddenly kill off Sakura, it would uproot so much, it would take so much write the story no-jutsu to explain and refill with another heroine, it would just be insane, plus why should it be Neji and Sakura to die just so Hinata could become the Heroine she was never meant to be? Sorry, no matter how much Hinata fans try to make her part of team 7, Hinata will never be a member of team 7 even if sakura died (which she won't Sakura is never going to die, her role just could not be fullfilled due to the story elements). Sakura is the heroine, Hinata has her moments but will never be a main character. Hinata is just too flat and unbelievable, only thing I want to know is where the hell did the annoying fanbase come from before her pain role? I just don't understand how anyone would think a character with hardly any relavence before chapter 615, hardly any screentime, no real battles, and was only steamrolled at first, and whos moments always involved either her or someone else getting her (neji injured her, pain smacked her, neji died and she just almost passed it off), how could anyone like a character that is almost just a shade? Sakrua did not have a physical role in part 1, but hell she was there when it mattered and this became important in building off Naruto and herself, naruto and sakura reflect off each other in a few ways (naruto makes the promise but fails, sakura wants to become better and be useful, she resolves to help him, naruto still fails the promise, sakura still seeks ways to help him accomplish this goal, even with 573 she still shows this important mental development to help Naruto to the end).

[narusaku4ver]

I agree with most of this, Kishi could have been smart enough to give Sakura more fights in the manga, here role really elevated in the sasori fight and she had a good role in the sasuke and sai arc as well. However that's when her physical role development typically stopped. Sakura has more or less remained an emotionally developed character. Its understandable to have Naruto and Sasuke keep growing in power but I would have at least accepted it if Sakura was around kakashi's level and we know Kakashi himself is able to deal with kage leveled battles. I'm only saying if Kishi gave Sakura power in the range of Tsunade, Kakashi, and Gaara, that would be okay with me, it would be one of the stronger ones but sadly its not. Sakura is a well developed character but that did not mean she had to be forsaken almost entirely in the physical department, Kishi could have made Sakura grow kinda to the level Oda made Nami and Ussop in One Piece, both are capable and can handle some tough foes but the strongest are still left to luffy, zoro, and sanji.

This is one reason why I tend to enjoy the anime more than the manga, we still see some more with Sakura doing physical battles which is acceptable and which she has only a few roles in the manga. I mean if crazy hinata fans praise the majority of Hinata's development being fillers, I'm at least glad Sakura's role in fillers at least gives her action, the anime team does what Kishi had no time for originally. That's not to say Sakura's role is not important, she is very important to the story and part of the central conflict, mainly around the promise. Remember part of this dissapointment is mainly due to Kishi having an inate weakness for heroines, something he constantly admits, if your main female is not around a major action role, its not gonna look good for the supporting females. The only females that have the high battle skills in the series aside from Sakura (we know she has skills) are sadly those who are off-screen most of the time, Tsunade, Mei (5th mizkage), Temari, Yugito, and Anko, they all have respectable skills but are either limited. We saw 2 fights with Tsunade actually fighting and they were fine, Temari was around with Gaara, Mei had high action skills like Tsunade, Yugito was killed off early. Hell with Anko being one of two leftovers for orochimaru, I'm surprised they never made a filler focused around Yamato and Anko for their roles as orochimaru's experiments.

Compared to them they have more skill than Sakura (save Temari, Sakura was a 26 in the databook, Temari was a 24). Yet Sakura has the bigger role. Sakura is a very good character its just she never got a least another good fight like Sasori and her physical development has been minimal I mean think of it like this:

Start of part 2, she is practically even with Naruto. After Naruto finishes his rasenshuriken and defeats Kakuzu, well he has no additional power only a strong jutsu. Naruto and Sakura are around even in most cases. Now fast forward to sage training, basically now Naruto has sage power to stand even to Sasuke who just got the power to use Itachi's techniques. Sakura is left behind from this point. Sasuke awakens the incomplete Susanno and gets Itachi's eyes, Naruto gets form 1 of the tailed beast chakra from Kurama. Sakura gets nothing as she goes to war. Now Naruto has the 2nd form, in sync with Kurama while sasuke with his eternal eyes and perfect Susanno stand ready. Both figuretly have the power to reduce nations with their power, Sakura is outclassed. If she at least gets one last power boost from Tsunade I'm not going to freak out but least it could give her the role she needed, I mean if kishi had to cram Hinata's development all at once, a quick limited power boost for Sakura would not be as bad, least Sakura has development.

Sakura is a very good character and makes good use of her skillset but I really wish she got more. She was first sidelined in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc (but with all respect that was team 10s arc) and again a minor role in the itachi pursuit arc (again with respect this was Sasuke's arc and it was time for it). But then came pain and her role in the 5 kage summit, then the big sideline was for the war. The main premise for the 4th world war arc has been due to so many characters, it figured everyone would be taken out for some time, Naruto and Sasuke were sidelined for a while as we watched characters like Dauri and Mifune who we hardly knew fight against these very powerful guys from the past of the other villages we hardly knew until this point. We always knew the leaf and a good deal about the sand, but limited on the cloud due tot he into of bee. The stone and mist villages had a lot of work to explain themselves, we hardly knew them and still don't know as much.

I enjoy Sakura, she is a mentally developed character first which gives her a fixed role and a physically developed one second and it remains more or less the same, I'm just glad that as a mental character, she has the tenacity to use her limited skill set to face enemies most others could not which at least gives her a fighting chance. Just wish she would get one power boost or some event comes in and she finally surpasses Tsunade, if Tsunade dies then this would be the time for Sakura to surpass her.

As for the Naruhina stuff, yes its annoying. Not going to mention the lack or reason or insults many haters put out but one of the stupidest reasons I ever heard for NaruHina was one said that kishi realized how big it is here compared to japan and how they outnumber it all over the world and how he is doing it because he wants to please his fans. I asked this one person if she was seriously thinking that kishi would do that because of their desires and she said yes. I asked her again if they ever thought that kishi should be influenced by his fanbase rather than what he thinks as an artist and storyteller, to decide what he feels or give in to the crazy demands of fans? I told these people that if this was how things operated then anyone who wanted Jiriaya, Asuma, and Neji to die, well thats why kishi did it, because fans wanted it to happen, not out of development for Naruto, team 10, Hinata, and team guy. He should kill them because fans wanted it. Well then I told them that because they wished for Sakura to die so hard, it does not work that way now does it? Sakura's death would be meaningless and totally uproot so much of the story, what really peeved them off was when I said he could have let Hinata die in the Pain arc, Hinata had done nothing of significance for the story and she could have died, it would have only been a sadness for Naruto because he would have understood how it felt to lose a father like figure and a friend. Sakrua cannot die because well the story plot just shields her too much, the promise Naruto made and how she tries to help is a story element which makes it so Kishi cannot logically kill Sakura off and at the same time, much in the same way Chiyo died for Gaara and Neji died for Hinata, Tusnade is keeping Sakura safe from this, if Tsunade dies, there is a reason for her so it could further Sakura like the ones mentioned before. If he decided to suddenly kill off Sakura, it would uproot so much, it would take so much write the story no-jutsu to explain and refill with another heroine, it would just be insane, plus why should it be Neji and Sakura to die just so Hinata could become the Heroine she was never meant to be? Sorry, no matter how much Hinata fans try to make her part of team 7, Hinata will never be a member of team 7 even if sakura died (which she won't Sakura is never going to die, her role just could not be fullfilled due to the story elements). Sakura is the heroine, Hinata has her moments but will never be a main character. Hinata is just too flat and unbelievable, only thing I want to know is where the hell did the annoying fanbase come from before her pain role? I just don't understand how anyone would think a character with hardly any relavence before chapter 615, hardly any screentime, no real battles, and was only steamrolled at first, and whos moments always involved either her or someone else getting her (neji injured her, pain smacked her, neji died and she just almost passed it off), how could anyone like a character that is almost just a shade? Sakrua did not have a physical role in part 1, but hell she was there when it mattered and this became important in building off Naruto and herself, naruto and sakura reflect off each other in a few ways (naruto makes the promise but fails, sakura wants to become better and be useful, she resolves to help him, naruto still fails the promise, sakura still seeks ways to help him accomplish this goal, even with 573 she still shows this important mental development to help Naruto to the end).

But he can give fanservice, Hinata dying would mean nothing for Naruto's development it would be the same effect of a friend dying like Neji, for some reason after 614, after reading the official translation, the fact that from Naruto's perspective Hinata was willing to die because he was her friend enforcing what Neji told to Naruto, 615 Hinata could have done a romantic speech and would have end on the same way she could say how she was before "the nindo" stuff and enforce that she would be at his side no matter what even willing to die because of Naruto and becahse she loves him, instead she do a speech that everyone is there with Naruto and everyone is there willing to die for him because of it he cant give up because it's the same as killing them.

[Codus N]

So you and Paradox, together, came up with Hindsight: Foresight, eh?

Although an awesome idea, I think it's still too far-fetched and possibly beyond Kishi's level of planning... At least the time-travelling part.

I wouldn't put it past Minato, however, to design contingencies to the seal and plan so far ahead against Tobi, simply because Minato is just that 'crazy-prepared.' The fandom seems to consider him to have Batman or Xanatos-level planning, even without giving him time-travelling knowledge....

....Also, Kishi making Minato pull counter-plans into the air wouldn't seem like an asspull, given his perceived reputation.

Eh, not really. Paradox came up with the premise, but I expanded and wringed out the details. I made a thread for this topic, but it's closed now. You can see me ironing out the details here:

http://www.narusaku....showtopic=10619

While it is a bit out there, it's certainly not implausible considering Minato's character. It would certainly be the only way to explain what Minato did without making him look too much like a Gary Stu.

The fandom would scream shenanigans if Kishi even attempted something like that. The manga has gotten a little kooky, but this would be over the top.

The only people I think the fandom would accept over the top Batman or Xanatos level planning from is Shikamaru or Shikaku; given their ridiculous hyped intelligence, and at least in Shikamaru's case, an over 200 I.Q. Minato, while well prepared, doesn't have that level of brain where you can literally make him omnipotent like you can do with Shikamaru, and just explain it with his over 200 I.Q.

Even if Minato did time travel and set up Naruto's chakra to do what we saw the last few chapters, how could he have assumed that Shikaku would figure out how to use it and explain it to Naruto? It wasn't like there were any clues left for him by Minato. He figured it out on his own. So it doesn't fit the narrative at all.

Thankfully, time travel is something I doubt we will ever have to worry about in Naruto. Nor we will see zombies being Hokages. That doesn't fit into the story at all. I like Minato, but his role in the story is just about over. It is NARUTO's time now. Along with Sasuke and their generation. The Hokages are the past.

Heh, I agree that this theory is pretty crazy, but the evidences are certainly piling up.

Honestly, we know for a fact Shikaku is the smartest man in the war. Also, the way I see it, Shikaku seems to be very close to Minato and was probably his right hand man as well. I get the feeling from his personality that he and Minato probably got along really well. It's just speculation, but I really do get that feeling. That's why Minato believed Shikaku could figure it out because he knew him that well.

[James S Cassidy]

James the thing is that I didn't point any fingers either, in fact I agree with the whining, complaining and the angriness, what I don't agree with is the amount of whining, complaining and angriness about the same stuff again and again when there is nothing we can do or say to change it.
At this point I just want to see what happen next, I came to the understanding that Kishi does not need to add Sakura because I want, I wish he could add her when she is needed for a specific role and not only for fan service or romance but that is Kishi decision to make.

Don-kun, the biggest issue this forum has is miscommunication.

The mere fact that you quoted me automatically makes me assume you are talking about me. I don't really understand why you quoted me if you were merely agreeing with me.

But realistically, they couldn't rebuild the whole city in a whole week. And then there are the designs, recreationals areas such as parks, not to mention majority of the ninjas are in war (and in their deathbeds so to speak).

Realistically, this is just a story. If Kishi wants them to have most of the city rebuilt in a weeks time, then he could easily. And we only saw the outside buildings. Nothing about inside furnishings. Even the towns people themselves after Yamato rebuild the buildings said "Wow, at this rate the town will be built in no time." We also have some things the ninja do in minutes that might take us hours to complete or even days.

It's possible that if Yamato can build a block of buildings within seconds and then he does this for the first three days, then I'd say most of the structures might have been built within that time.

No offense, but now it seems like even if given a reason on why things are in such a way it still does not satisfy people.

Sometimes you just have to accept things. I don't see a problem with the town being built within a week's time.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 February 2013 - 07:55 AM.